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[bolger] buoyancy and keel ansiety

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  • Marco Vinicio Masoni
    Dear all , two questions: 1) after do I have put the foam for the buoyancy, must I glue the cover and forget the foam or it is better screw the cover for
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 5, 1999
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      Dear all ,
      two questions:
      1) after do I have put the foam for the buoyancy, must I glue the cover and forget the foam or it  is  better screw the cover for possible inspections? The boat in question is a Micro.
      2) Does anybody have tried to do the keel in lead with ingots and filled the intersices with small little balls ( that ones  of hunters, I don't know  the  name) and epoxy?

      I am suffering a crisis of keel anxiety and I don't find the silicato of sodium (water glass) in Italy.

      Hemmm...
      3) question: Do you know an alternative to sodium silicate?
      Thanks all in advance
      Marco



      Laboratorio di Psicologia Dott. Masoni
      Piazza Bolivar, 6
      20146 MILANO - Italy
      Tel. 02-428838
      Fax. 02-47716682
      email: masoni@...
      www.giardino.com/artist/masoni/mason1.html

      "Perciò saranno tutte soltanto nomi Le cose che i mortali hanno
      stabilito, persuasi che fossero vere"
      (Parmenide 8, 38-39)
    • GHC
      Foams take up water, so it might be good to get to it again in a few years. But, it it s sealed, it s dry. Probably doesn t make a big difference. I cast lead
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 5, 1999
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        Foams take up water, so it might be good to get to it again in a few years.
        But, it it's sealed, it's dry. Probably doesn't make a big difference.

        I cast lead shot (for shotgun shooting) in polyster resin, in place, for my
        Micro keel. Seems like it was cheap - maybe less than $.50 / pound (lira /
        kg...?). I studying the "packing factor" and increased the keel area maybe
        20% while mainting the c.g. Well, it didn't all fit, so the keel was light
        by maybe 100 pounds! I added a 1/4" by 2" steel strap along to bottom for
        strength and extra weight (25 pounds). The whole affair was light but
        worked fine in a knockdown.

        I would think combining some ingots and shot would increase your density
        just fine.

        I did this all upside down, turning it over was interesting!

        Gregg

        At 09:06 AM 9/5/99 +0200, you wrote:
        >Dear all , two questions: better screw the cover for possible
        >inspections? The boat in question is a Micro. name) and epoxy?
        > I am suffering a crisis of keel anxiety and I don't find the silicato of
        >sodium (water glass) in Italy.
        > Hemmm... 3) question: Do you know an alternative to sodium silicate?
        >Thanks all in advance Marco
        >
        >
        > Laboratorio di Psicologia Dott. Masoni
        > Piazza Bolivar, 6
        > 20146 MILANO - Italy
        > Tel. 02-428838
        > Fax. 02-47716682
        > email: masoni@...
        > www.giardino.com/artist/masoni/mason1.html
        >
        > "Perciò saranno tutte soltanto nomi Le cose che i mortali hanno
        >" (Parmenide 8, 38-39)
        > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger
        > www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
        >
      • Chuck Leinweber
        Marco: First of all, do you and Pippo know each other? Italy is a big country, but from here in Texas, you two are neighbors. What I would do on foam covers,
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 5, 1999
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          Marco:
           
          First of all, do you and Pippo know each other?  Italy is a big country, but from here in Texas, you two are neighbors.
           
          What I would do on foam covers, is to first epoxy the cover and the area that it contacts separately, then use silicone sealer when screwing the cover down.  The silicone will seal the compartment, but will release if and when you need to get in.
           
          A mixture of lead ingots and shot set in resin should work fine.  I am looking at the line drawings of Micro, and I don't see why one couldn't use cut steel plate for the ballast.  If you were a stickler for weight, you could even extend it into the keel deadwood just ahead of and behind the ballast piece. There seems to be plenty of room to get the required weight of steel in there.  Another possibility would to build the mold out of steel, or make a pattern (a wood representation of the casting) and take it to a lead foundry and let them cast it.
           
          Good luck, Marco
           
          Chuck
           
           

          Dear all ,
          two questions:
          1) after do I have put the foam for the buoyancy, must I glue the cover and forget the foam or it  is  better screw the cover for possible inspections? The boat in question is a Micro.
          2) Does anybody have tried to do the keel in lead with ingots and filled the intersices with small little balls ( that ones  of hunters, I don't know  the  name) and epoxy?

          I am suffering a crisis of keel anxiety and I don't find the silicato of sodium (water glass) in Italy.

          Hemmm...
          3) question: Do you know an alternative to sodium silicate?
          Thanks all in advance
          Marco



        • pippobianco@tin.it
          pippobianc-@tin.it wrote: Hi Marco - two Italians communicating in English! ... cover and ... inspections? You can always inspect the foam bocks by crawling
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 5, 1999
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            pippobianc-@... wrote:

            Hi Marco - two Italians communicating in English!

            > 1) after do I have put the foam for the buoyancy, must I glue the
            cover and
            > forget the foam or it is better screw the cover for possible
            inspections?

            You can always inspect the foam bocks by crawling into the rear "cabin"
            in the Micro. I would (and will) definitely seal the deck up there as
            everywhere else.

            > 2) Does anybody have tried to do the keel in lead with ingots and
            filled the
            > intersices with small little balls ( that ones of hunters, I don't
            know the
            > name) and epoxy?

            As you know, I'm looking around for lead in plates, say 1 cm thick, to
            be laminated into the keel mold with epoxy. Your solution should work
            well provided you do not leave too much unfilled volume. Packing theory
            says that the very best packing with spheres is 75% of a given volume.
            By the way, on the other side of the pool they call "bird shot" the
            small lead balls used by hunters.

            > 3) question: Do you know an alternative to sodium silicate?

            I never saw sodium silicate in my life...

            Best

            Pippo
          • david
            Marco: I built a 1200 lbs (~500 kg) keel for a 22 boat by making a male mold out of wood and using it to cast a female mold in a weak sand/concrete mix, and
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 6, 1999
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              Marco:
              I built a 1200 lbs (~500 kg) keel for a 22' boat by making a male mold out of wood and using it to cast a female mold in a weak sand/concrete mix, and pouring the lead into that. It was no big deal. I used a salvaged cast iron sink with a pipe sealed to the drain with the boat's 1 1/2" throughhull and some refractory cement, perched on cinder blocks (I would recommend fire brick) and a hardwood fire to melt the lead. Heat the pipe with a torch before the pour or the lead will solidify before it gets to the mold. It might be a good idea to wear leather while doing the pour. No need for waterglass. I have no opinion on the inspection ports. Btw, can you provide a translation of  your quote from Parmenide?  I ran it through Babelfish and got something that I suspect does not capture the gist (or even the literal meaning) of the citation....
              david

              Marco Vinicio Masoni wrote:

              Dear all ,two questions:1) after do I have put the foam for the buoyancy, must I glue the cover and forget the foam or it  is  better screw the cover for possible inspections? The boat in question is a Micro.2) Does anybody have tried to do the keel in lead with ingots and filled the intersices with small little balls ( that ones  of hunters, I don't know  the  name) and epoxy? I am suffering a crisis of keel anxiety and I don't find the silicato of sodium (water glass) in Italy. Hemmm...3) question: Do you know an alternative to sodium silicate?Thanks all in advanceMarco 
               

              Laboratorio di Psicologia Dott. Masoni
              Piazza Bolivar, 6
              20146 MILANO - Italy
              Tel. 02-428838
              Fax. 02-47716682
              email: masoni@...
              www.giardino.com/artist/masoni/mason1.html

              "Perciò saranno tutte soltanto nomi Le cose che i mortali hanno
              stabilito, persuasi che fossero vere" (Parmenide 8, 38-39)

               
            • Marco Vinicio Masoni
              Thank you David, for the keel, Now I try a difficult (for me) translation of Parmenide: Therefore, they are only names all things that mortals have
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 10, 1999
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                Thank you David, for the keel,
                Now  I try a difficult (for me) translation of Parmenide:

                Therefore,  they are only names     all things       that mortals have
                established,       convinced that they are true


                In 17.43 10/09/99 +0000, hai scritto:
                Marco:
                I built a 1200 lbs (~500 kg) keel for a 22' boat by making a male mold out of wood and using it to cast a female mold in a weak sand/concrete mix, and pouring the lead into that. It was no big deal. I used a salvaged cast iron sink with a pipe sealed to the drain with the boat's 1 1/2" throughhull and some refractory cement, perched on cinder blocks (I would recommend fire brick) and a hardwood fire to melt the lead. Heat the pipe with a torch before the pour or the lead will solidify before it gets to the mold. It might be a good idea to wear leather while doing the pour. No need for waterglass. I have no opinion on the inspection ports. Btw, can you provide a translation of  your quote from Parmenide?  I ran it through Babelfish and got something that I suspect does not capture the gist (or even the literal meaning) of the citation....
                david




                Laboratorio di Psicologia Dott. Masoni
                Piazza Bolivar, 6
                20146 MILANO - Italy
                Tel. 02-428838
                Fax. 02-47716682
                email: masoni@...
                www.giardino.com/artist/masoni/mason1.html

                "Perciò saranno tutte soltanto nomi Le cose che i mortali hanno
                stabilito, persuasi che fossero vere"
                (Parmenide 8, 38-39)
              • david
                Thanks, Marco. That makes a lot more sense than what I got from Babelfish, david
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 11, 1999
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                  Thanks, Marco. That makes a lot more sense than what I got from
                  Babelfish,
                  david

                  Marco Vinicio Masoni wrote:

                  >
                  > Thank you David, for the keel,
                  > Now I try a difficult (for me) translation of Parmenide:
                  >
                  > Therefore, they are only names all things that mortals have
                  >
                  > established, convinced that they are true
                  >
                  >
                  >
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