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Micro - double-ender?

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  • brisfan2002
    Does anyone know if it would be possible to build Mirco as a double- ender (using the bow thrice)? Also using either twin keels or leeboards and junk rig.
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 30, 2002
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      Does anyone know if it would be possible to build Mirco as a double-
      ender (using the bow thrice)? Also using either twin keels or
      leeboards and junk rig. Thanks.
    • brucehector
      I m sure you could do any of these modifications to the plans. I m also sure Phil has a simple double ended junk rig already sitting in his stock design
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 30, 2002
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        I'm sure you could do any of these modifications to the plans. I'm
        also sure Phil has a simple double ended junk rig already sitting in
        his stock design drawer. He's got everything else. Why not mail him
        the question?

        With enough epoxy, dreaming and thought you could make it into an
        amphibious-aircraft-carrier-submarine if you wanted. I know, I've got
        the sketches.

        But at some point even a silk purse begins to look like a sow's ear.
      • Richard Spelling
        Sure. Wouldn t be a Micro. ... From: brisfan2002 To: Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:36 AM Subject: [bolger] Micro
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 30, 2002
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          Sure. Wouldn't be a Micro.

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "brisfan2002" <frtom@...>
          To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:36 AM
          Subject: [bolger] Micro - double-ender?


          > Does anyone know if it would be possible to build Mirco as a double-
          > ender (using the bow thrice)? Also using either twin keels or
          > leeboards and junk rig. Thanks.
          >
          >
          >
          > Bolger rules!!!
          > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
          > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
          > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
          > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
          01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
          > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
        • proaconstrictor
          ... Some of us are still looking for the first end on a micro. More seriously, one of the reasons one cuts the second end off a boat in order to create a
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 1 10:29 AM
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            --- In bolger@y..., "brisfan2002" <frtom@m...> wrote:
            > Does anyone know if it would be possible to build Mirco as a double-
            > ender (using the bow thrice)? Also using either twin keels or
            > leeboards and junk rig. Thanks.

            Some of us are still looking for the first end on a micro.

            More seriously, one of the reasons one cuts the second end off a boat
            in order to create a transom, is to save the length of the second
            end. Phil took this logic to the front of the boat also, thinking it
            was particularly useful in the case of the lines of a heeled
            sharpie. But one might ask, if one is adding stuff on, would it be
            most appropriate to add the fine bow, rather than extending the
            transom
          • mat_man22
            This link shows a Micro that had is bow built up with foam to prevent pounding at ancor. This should make a good crash absorbing zone.
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 2 9:20 AM
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              This link shows a Micro that had is bow built up with foam
              to prevent pounding at ancor. This should make a good crash
              absorbing zone.

              http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/articles/oink2/index.htm

              Mat
            • John Bell
              There has been at least one Micro built with a pointy bow. The question is why? If the boat is properly trimmed, there is no reason at all for the forefoot to
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 2 9:26 AM
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                There has been at least one Micro built with a pointy bow. The question is
                why? If the boat is properly trimmed, there is no reason at all for the
                forefoot to ever get in the water. All the pointy end adds is a bit more
                material and work for no performance benefit.




                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "proaconstrictor" <proaconstrictor@...>
                To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 1:29 PM
                Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro - double-ender?


                | --- In bolger@y..., "brisfan2002" <frtom@m...> wrote:
                | > Does anyone know if it would be possible to build Mirco as a double-
                | > ender (using the bow thrice)? Also using either twin keels or
                | > leeboards and junk rig. Thanks.
                |
                | Some of us are still looking for the first end on a micro.
                |
                | More seriously, one of the reasons one cuts the second end off a boat
                | in order to create a transom, is to save the length of the second
                | end. Phil took this logic to the front of the boat also, thinking it
                | was particularly useful in the case of the lines of a heeled
                | sharpie. But one might ask, if one is adding stuff on, would it be
                | most appropriate to add the fine bow, rather than extending the
                | transom
                |
                |
                | Bolger rules!!!
                | - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                | - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                | - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
                | - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
                01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                | - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                | - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                |
                | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                |
                |
              • proaconstrictor
                ... question is ... the ... more ... There is a difference between Bolger s general attempt to do cool stuff like provide the most boat in 16 , or two sheets
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 2 6:11 PM
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                  --- In bolger@y..., "John Bell" <jmbell@m...> wrote:
                  > There has been at least one Micro built with a pointy bow. The
                  question is
                  > why? If the boat is properly trimmed, there is no reason at all for
                  the
                  > forefoot to ever get in the water. All the pointy end adds is a bit
                  more
                  > material and work for no performance benefit.
                  >

                  There is a difference between Bolger's general attempt to do cool
                  stuff like provide the most boat in 16', or two sheets length etc...,
                  and saying it can't be improved with more of something. Micro isn't
                  the best candidate for enhancement, because you wouldn't gain
                  anything in WLL, unless you go wild with the bondo. Still I believe
                  there is a wave out there somewhere that could break over the bow,
                  and I would prefer it wasn't flat when it happened. Also, it isn't a
                  wind friendly end, something rounded would be a moderate improvement
                  on both counts. I don't think anyone has built a Melted Micro, but
                  it would have to be faster. It might be cheaper.
                • ghartc
                  My micro, now given away, once did 10 knots with 4 adults in the cockpit; obviously surfing (http://www.carlsondesign.com/projects.html) off the wind. On that
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 2 8:07 PM
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                    My micro, now given away, once did 10 knots with 4 adults in the
                    cockpit; obviously surfing
                    (http://www.carlsondesign.com/projects.html) off the wind. On that
                    occasion, she creaked a little but seemed in control.

                    On another reach on another day, with kids up front in the cabin, we
                    had water pile up on the bow transom and pour in the lower step. We
                    were on the lake, so we kept it up to see what would happen. The bow
                    well filled until the second step began to pour in. When the water
                    reached the plexiglass port to the cabin (4' of water?), we eased
                    off. I really can't remember whether the small reacher we rigged was
                    up or not, but it's something we could duplicate on the right day.

                    Obviously, we could have reefed down or sailed up, but it was
                    certainly interesting enough that I thought I would remove the steps
                    at some point.

                    By the way, has anyone gotten their foot in the first step and
                    climbed on up? I'm a wrestler and I couldn't. Cute but unusable
                    feature.

                    So, the pointy micro is an interesting idea, the rationale of the
                    double-ender escapes me. My Rozinante, a 28' canoe, is smaller than
                    a Catalina 22 below. So, a double-ended Micro would be like, oh, a 9
                    footer? While Rozinante is certainly beautiful, I hate to imagine
                    the 15' double ender micro, 6 foot wide. Ouch.

                    Gregg Carlson


                    >> There has been at least one Micro built with a pointy bow. The
                    >question is why? If the boat is properly trimmed, there is no reason
                    at all for the forefoot to ever get in the water. All the pointy end
                    adds is a bit more material and work for no performance benefit.
                    > >
                    >
                    > There is a difference between Bolger's general attempt to do cool
                    > stuff like provide the most boat in 16', or two sheets length
                    etc...,
                    > and saying it can't be improved with more of something. Micro
                    isn't
                    > the best candidate for enhancement, because you wouldn't gain
                    > anything in WLL, unless you go wild with the bondo. Still I
                    believe
                    > there is a wave out there somewhere that could break over the bow,
                    > and I would prefer it wasn't flat when it happened. Also, it isn't
                    a
                    > wind friendly end, something rounded would be a moderate
                    improvement
                    > on both counts. I don't think anyone has built a Melted Micro, but
                    > it would have to be faster. It might be cheaper.
                  • dbaldnz
                    I only tried to once Gregg. I think because it s so narrow at the bow, your arms can t spread sideways enough to stop you pivoting sideways, unless maybe you
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 2 8:24 PM
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                      I only tried to once Gregg. I think because it's so narrow at the
                      bow, your arms can't spread sideways enough to stop you pivoting
                      sideways, unless maybe you threw yourself forward.
                      Either way, it felt so silly I never tried again.
                      DonB

                      > By the way, has anyone gotten their foot in the first step and
                      > climbed on up? I'm a wrestler and I couldn't. Cute but unusable
                      > feature.

                      >
                      > Gregg Carlson
                    • proaconstrictor
                      ... What about if you were bow to beach? Would there ever be the reason to climb up and on that way. I imagine not. The steps do act as big scuppers. To
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 3 11:21 AM
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                        --- In bolger@y..., "dbaldnz" <oink@p...> wrote:
                        > I only tried to once Gregg. I think because it's so narrow at the
                        > bow, your arms can't spread sideways enough to stop you pivoting
                        > sideways, unless maybe you threw yourself forward.
                        > Either way, it felt so silly I never tried again.
                        > DonB
                        >

                        What about if you were bow to beach? Would there ever be the reason
                        to climb up and on that way. I imagine not. The steps do act as big
                        scuppers. To eliminate that feature but allow the mast to step, one
                        would have to close some stuff off, and then where do you want your
                        anchor and so forth (I am not sure I want it over there anyway). The
                        whole detail have never struck me as a winner.

                        I must say, I was just babling on as though the double ender would be
                        longer/extended. Of course I think the question actualy is two front
                        ends, which I think would have a bad effect on stability, and load
                        carrying.
                      • rnlocnil
                        Ah, but then you wouldn t have to argue with the canal fascists about OAL under the limit. (See Mr. Lenihan s account some time back about his trip to the
                        Message 11 of 11 , Aug 3 3:46 PM
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                          Ah, but then you wouldn't have to argue with the canal fascists about
                          OAL under the limit. (See Mr. Lenihan's account some time back about
                          his trip to the first Champlain messabout, at least I think it's in
                          there.)
                          --- In bolger@y..., "proaconstrictor" <proaconstrictor@y...> wrote:
                          snip
                          > I must say, I was just babling on as though the double ender would
                          be
                          > longer/extended. Of course I think the question actualy is two
                          front
                          > ends, which I think would have a bad effect on stability, and load
                          > carrying.
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