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Re: Anchor for a Scooner?

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  • brucehallman
    This anchor conversation made me wonder about PCB s opinion about anchors. His only writing about anchors I can recall is Chapter 33 of his book _The Folding
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 24, 2002
      This anchor conversation made me wonder about PCB's opinion about
      anchors. His only writing about anchors I can recall is Chapter 33
      of his book _The Folding Schooner_ where he writes:

      "'Nobody should buy a stockless anchor under fifty pounds', I
      muttered to myself (I'm libertarian and *never* say 'there ought to
      be a law'")

      He writes of the 'plow types' in which he includes Taylor, CQR and
      Maxim [and I also guess he would include the Bruce type]:

      "The plow turned out just as hard to clean as the Danforths with the
      same habit of failing to take hold just when it is needed most."

      His chapter goes on to describe his futile experiment to design
      a 'better' anchor, and he writes:

      "My present idea is that no anchor of any design weighing under
      sixteen or eighteen pounds is reliable for even the smallest boat,
      because it is too light to drive its bills into anything but soft
      mud. Weight for weight, I judge the two modern anchor types are
      almost if not quite as good as the traditional type with a short
      scope. On all very small anchors, needle points and razor edges may
      be the most important features for reliability when let go suddenly."

      I understand that he means the plow and Danforth types are 'modern'
      and a stocked anchor is traditional.

      He ends the chapter thus:

      "The immediate effect of the experiment has been that I have abruptly
      stopped sneering at stockless anchors. If I stick with stock
      anchors, as I probably will with Resolution, it'll be for a number of
      petty reasons of which the most important is that it's easier to get
      all the mud off them. My storm anchor will be some imitation of a
      Herreshoff three-piece, because it will be stowed below decks and
      will weight something like 120 pounds: I don't care to bring it on
      deck in one trip."

      P.S.

      And this begs the question: where can one learn more about
      the "Herreshoff three-piece"?

      P.P.S.

      I also just re-read the chapter about anchors in Annie Hill's
      excellent book Voyaging on a Small Income. A very impressive book
      [and chapter] and her two main points are 1) You can't have too many
      anchors. 2) you need lots of chain.

      On their 33 foot boat, they carry five anchors and lots of chain: A
      35 pound CQR [w/40 ft chain], two 15 kilo Bruces [w/100 feet chain
      each], one 7.5 Kilo Bruce [for kedging w/3 fathoms chain], and a 65
      pound Luke [a three part stocked anchor w/20 feet of chain]

      Their 'main' anchor is a 15 kilo Bruce with 100 feet of 3/8" chain
      and 50 meters of 16 mm nylon multiplait.

      The spare Bruce is to replace the first if lost, but also to loan to
      help someone else out in a pinch. [Who for instance might be dragging
      anchor and threatening to cause damage in a crowded anchorage.]

      She sums up her philosophy: "...sooner or later you will be in a
      situation where you would give all the money that you possess for a
      decent anchor."
    • Leoandsandy@Juno.com
      P.S. And this begs the question: where can one learn more about the Herreshoff three-piece ? If anyone is interested, I could direct you to Peter Duff
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 24, 2002
        "P.S.

        And this begs the question: where can one learn more about
        the "Herreshoff three-piece"?"

        If anyone is interested, I could direct you to Peter Duff (builder of the
        Stone Horse, Shearwater, Dovekie... ) who has a supply of 3 piece anchors
        that may be of a Bolger design. Leo

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bruce Fountain
        ... Feet, pounds, kilograms, fathoms, inches, meters, millimeters. An average of more than one unit of measurement per line... -- Bruce Fountain
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 24, 2002
          On Thursday 25 July 2002 07:48, brucehallman wrote:

          > On their 33 foot boat, they carry five anchors and lots of chain: A
          > 35 pound CQR [w/40 ft chain], two 15 kilo Bruces [w/100 feet chain
          > each], one 7.5 Kilo Bruce [for kedging w/3 fathoms chain], and a 65
          > pound Luke [a three part stocked anchor w/20 feet of chain]
          >
          > Their 'main' anchor is a 15 kilo Bruce with 100 feet of 3/8" chain
          > and 50 meters of 16 mm nylon multiplait.

          Feet, pounds, kilograms, fathoms, inches, meters, millimeters. An
          average of more than one unit of measurement per line...

          --
          Bruce Fountain (fountainb@...)
          Senior Software Engineer
          Union Switch and Signal Pty Ltd
          Perth Western Australia
          tel: +618 9256 0083
        • proaconstrictor
          ... Welcome to Canada (and presumably a bunch of other places), where they sell epoxy by the liter, and 4x8 sheets of plywood. How do you feel about 400 grams
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 25, 2002
            > > Their 'main' anchor is a 15 kilo Bruce with 100 feet of 3/8" chain
            > > and 50 meters of 16 mm nylon multiplait.
            >
            > Feet, pounds, kilograms, fathoms, inches, meters, millimeters. An
            > average of more than one unit of measurement per line...

            Welcome to Canada (and presumably a bunch of other places), where
            they sell epoxy by the liter, and 4x8 sheets of plywood. How do you
            feel about 400 grams of 3.5" nails?

            Reason number six why politicians should never be allowed to travel.
          • sneakeasy2000
            Hi Dave I have a personal preference on a small boat anchor. I dislike the Danforth type because they frequently get stuff caught in the crux of the flukes
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 25, 2002
              Hi Dave
              I have a personal preference on a small boat anchor. I dislike the
              Danforth type because they frequently get stuff caught in the crux of
              the flukes and you have no holding power. I bought a "Claw" which is
              a knockoff of a Bruce. It is half the price and I used it on my 23
              ft schooner and now on my Sneakeasy. It has never failed to hold.
              It is one piece and I store it in a Rubbermaid tub with 100 ft of 1/2
              inch nylon line. Like any anchor if you have a motor, reverse it
              after setting the anchor which enhances the set.

              FWIW

              Steve Bosquette
            • M Fx
              This is more applicable to large ships than small boats... but the vast majority of an anchor s holding power comed from the *chain* rather than the anchor
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 25, 2002
                This is more applicable to large ships than small
                boats... but the vast majority of an anchor's holding
                power comed from the *chain* rather than the anchor
                itself. It wraps around rocks, sits in the mud, sand,
                etc. It will sit there in a large lump, weighing more
                than your anchor, or stretch out over a length of
                seabed grabbing hold of everything in its path. So,
                I'd advise using a rather small anchor with good
                holding power, and bending to it 50 or so feet of
                heavy galvanized steel chain- more if you sail in
                deeper waters. For ships, the recommended scope of
                chain is 7-9 times the depth of the water... not that
                this is necessarily of use to small- boat sailors, but
                it might give a bit of perspective...

                -MFX

                --- David Romasco <dromasco@...> wrote:
                > I agree with Peter. I was sailing last weekend on a
                > 26' sloop with a
                > neophyte sailor who was asking me to confirm the
                > advice he'd received,
                > namely that he needed a 4 lb Danforth with 50' of
                > 3/16" line for a lunch
                > hook....
                >
                > My aversion to small anchors is based mostly on my
                > personal theory that
                > the holding bottom has a constant state of solidity
                > versus a varying
                > amount of anchor weight and palm area/penetration
                > (no formula intended,
                > sorry). Small boats don't necessarily imply being
                > able to use toy
                > anchors.
                >
                > Of course, I had five anchors on my last boat and am
                > rapidly adding to
                > the collection on my two current boats, so take my
                > opinion in that
                > perspective. <G>
                >
                > David Romasco
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: pvanderwaart [mailto:pvanderw@...]
                > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:46 PM
                > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [bolger] Re: Anchor for a Scooner?
                >
                >
                > > Something I could use..
                > > when...
                > > the wind is blowing me towards Rhode Island.
                >
                > I don't know what you have against RI. It seems like
                > a nice enough
                > place to me, especially as compared to the empty
                > North Atlantic (in
                > the other direction).
                >
                > I have two opinions about anchors for smallish
                > boats.
                >
                > 1) They are uncomfortable boatmates, all sharp
                > points and awkward
                > sizes. Whatever you decide on, have a bag, box,
                > case, or whatever to
                > keep it in so you don't fall over it, and the rode
                > doesn't get
                > tangled in storage.
                >
                > 2) Chain is a better boatmate than an anchor. Thirty
                > feet of light
                > chain at the anchor end of the rode may let you
                > downsize the anchor
                > itself a bit with no sharp points of its own.



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              • David Romasco
                While the chain component of an anchor rode does provide some chafe protection from bottom obstructions, the primary functions are to provide a shock absorbing
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 26, 2002
                  While the chain component of an anchor rode does provide some chafe
                  protection from bottom obstructions, the primary functions are to
                  provide a shock absorbing action (long before the anchor line comes
                  taut, the chain has already slowed the shock) and to lessen the angle of
                  the catenary at the anchor end (this is not a substitute for proper
                  scope, but will maximize the effect of what is paid out).

                  Clearly, longer and heavier chain will aid the good effects. The best
                  weight and length are relative factors based on boat size and desired
                  ease of handling. My wholly personal approach is to take the
                  manufacturers' recommendations in hand, shake my head incredulously, and
                  oversize the daylights out of everything. The Admiral seems to concur
                  (although our last two big boats have had electric windlasses, so this
                  might not be a major factor), and she's in charge of ground tackle
                  management (despite what you might think about sexist roles, she
                  actually LIKES anchoring; to each their own, I guess...).

                  David Romasco

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: M Fx [mailto:mfxboats@...]
                  Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 1:49 AM
                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Anchor for a Scooner?


                  This is more applicable to large ships than small
                  boats... but the vast majority of an anchor's holding
                  power comed from the *chain* rather than the anchor
                  itself. It wraps around rocks, sits in the mud, sand,
                  etc. It will sit there in a large lump, weighing more
                  than your anchor, or stretch out over a length of
                  seabed grabbing hold of everything in its path. So,
                  I'd advise using a rather small anchor with good
                  holding power, and bending to it 50 or so feet of
                  heavy galvanized steel chain- more if you sail in
                  deeper waters. For ships, the recommended scope of
                  chain is 7-9 times the depth of the water... not that
                  this is necessarily of use to small- boat sailors, but
                  it might give a bit of perspective...

                  -MFX

                  --- David Romasco <dromasco@...> wrote:
                  > I agree with Peter. I was sailing last weekend on a
                  > 26' sloop with a
                  > neophyte sailor who was asking me to confirm the
                  > advice he'd received,
                  > namely that he needed a 4 lb Danforth with 50' of
                  > 3/16" line for a lunch
                  > hook....
                  >
                  > My aversion to small anchors is based mostly on my
                  > personal theory that
                  > the holding bottom has a constant state of solidity
                  > versus a varying
                  > amount of anchor weight and palm area/penetration
                  > (no formula intended,
                  > sorry). Small boats don't necessarily imply being
                  > able to use toy
                  > anchors.
                  >
                  > Of course, I had five anchors on my last boat and am
                  > rapidly adding to
                  > the collection on my two current boats, so take my
                  > opinion in that
                  > perspective. <G>
                  >
                  > David Romasco
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: pvanderwaart [mailto:pvanderw@...]
                  > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:46 PM
                  > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [bolger] Re: Anchor for a Scooner?
                  >
                  >
                  > > Something I could use..
                  > > when...
                  > > the wind is blowing me towards Rhode Island.
                  >
                  > I don't know what you have against RI. It seems like
                  > a nice enough
                  > place to me, especially as compared to the empty
                  > North Atlantic (in
                  > the other direction).
                  >
                  > I have two opinions about anchors for smallish
                  > boats.
                  >
                  > 1) They are uncomfortable boatmates, all sharp
                  > points and awkward
                  > sizes. Whatever you decide on, have a bag, box,
                  > case, or whatever to
                  > keep it in so you don't fall over it, and the rode
                  > doesn't get
                  > tangled in storage.
                  >
                  > 2) Chain is a better boatmate than an anchor. Thirty
                  > feet of light
                  > chain at the anchor end of the rode may let you
                  > downsize the anchor
                  > itself a bit with no sharp points of its own.



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