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[bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats

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  • Richard
    For my D4 learning experiance, I used CDX pine from Home Depot and Titebond II glue. Haven t see any warping in the water or caused by rain yet.
    Message 1 of 23 , Jan 30, 2000
      For my D4 learning experiance, I used CDX pine from Home Depot and Titebond II glue. Haven't see any warping in the water or caused by rain yet.

      "Behrendt, Tom" wrote:

      Hi all:

      In my one finished boat, a D4 pram, made as a learning experience, emphasis on
      learning, I did run into significant board warping, in hindsight due to
      first-timer stupidity, but here's my experiences for what they are worth.
      Dagger board was built of 2 pieces of 1/4" ACX ply epoxied together and clear
      (unthickened) epoxy coated on the outside. The "glueing" epoxy was not
      thickened enough, first time it rained with the board outside the lamination
      ripped apart, both sides cupped significantly, I saw many areas on the inside
      that did not bond properly due to lack of epoxy. Where it did bond properly,
      the wood tore apart at one of the other glue lines (i.e the glue lines in the
      original plywood). Moral of the story, warping is a powerful force! As it was
      near the end of the season, and we just wanted to get the boat in the water, I
      went with a single 1/4' board, epoxy coated. Put it in the water it bends like
      a banana (lengthwise warping) in about 5 minutes. Take it out and it dries to
      more or less straight in a day or two. Put it back in...banana! As we were
      still able to get it up and down the daggerboard trunk even in it's banana
      shape and it didn't effect the boat's performance much my son and I just lived
      with it, I'll cook up something better for the next season.  I think that the
      boat gets slightly more leeway when it's on the port tack, the curve - convex
      side - facing downwind, my son doesn't think so, but he's been sailing a few
      decades less than me. Either way it works "OK" for now. The rudder, on the
      other hand is made out of a single piece of 1/2" nameless scrap ply and has not
      warped at all. The strange part is that this particular piece of scrap has been
      sitting out in my yard for at least two years, I used it as a rudder
      specifically because it hadn't warped in all that time, this greyish,
      dirt-stained hunk of ply. Go figure.

      As for the "correct" way to do it, Dynamite Payson strongly reccomends using
      marine ply for boards, even if you are using "el cheapo" ply for the rest, hows
      that for backwards? Dave Carnell repeatedly writes that epoxy-coating is
      useless for waterproffing and my experiences with the coated boards seem to
      agree with that reasoning. I would assume that making a glass board involves
      using glass cloth/matt around a core of some sort, as written up by others in
      this thread. Would enough layers keep significant moisture away from a cheap
      wood core? Dunno. But, seeing as how any warping WILL crack your board, and
      given the amount of epoxy you'd be using for an expiramental wood-core board, I
      think that one would be better off going with a foam core in the first place,
      after all, that's what the surfboarders do nowadays - the old "woodie"
      longboards are laminates if I remember correctly (laminated perpendicular to
      the board surface). Does anyone have experience with topnotch marine-ply
      boards?

      Cheers!

      Tom

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    • Lincoln Ross
      tim smith wrote: osnip ... I ve seen glass rudders on Hobies. Seems like you might want some wood or lots of layers on the
      Message 2 of 23 , Feb 1, 2000
        "tim smith" <timk_smit-@...> wrote:
        osnip
        > "Fiberglass construction makes the best centerboard Isnip
        >
        > snipThe idea sounds good to me, but I'm ignorant: are glass
        > boards standard in glass boats? Osnip

        I've seen glass rudders on Hobies. Seems like you might want some wood
        or lots of layers on the bottom and leading edge of a board. If you
        made a foam core board it would be very easy to hot wire a very nice
        airfoil shape. In simplest case all you would need is two templates, a
        homemade bow to keep the wire tight, some .020" music wire, some jumper
        cables and two 12 V batteries or a charger and a 12V battery. If you
        look around model airplane sights or airplane homebuilding sites I am
        sure you will find out how to do this. Of course if you use urethane
        you mustn't hot wire it due to toxicity.

        One model site: www.charlesriverrc.org (that's where I'd start looking
        if I needed this info)
      • Tim Smith
        samson family wrote: original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=2172 ... maintenance ... plane it ... Bill, that was
        Message 3 of 23 , Feb 1, 2000
          "samson family" <bill.samso-@...> wrote:
          original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=2172
          > I've got the same problem as Tim. The major job in this year's
          maintenance
          > is to hoist the Chebacco high enough to get the **$£$! board out,
          plane it
          > down a bit, re-glass and epoxy it.


          Bill, that was my fix the last time around. Lasted two seasons. And
          the work was done by a reputable yard, not disreputable me.
        • Tim Smith
          orr, jamie wrote: original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=2167 ... or bend ... will ... warping! ... Jamie, my board was
          Message 4 of 23 , Feb 1, 2000
            "orr, jamie" <jor-@...> wrote:
            original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=2167
            > Tim
            >
            > How is your board made? And how did it warp -- that is did it cup,
            or bend
            > longwise, or twist, or whatever?
            >
            > My own board is still standing in the shed, so I have no idea what
            will
            > happen when it gets wet. However, with three pieces of ply laminated
            > together, then covered in glass, I'm amazed it can even think about
            warping!
            >
            > Jamie Orr
            >
            Jamie, my board was made by Brad Story, who I guess is said to have
            wrangled with PCB about construction; don't know if any changes were
            made here. Haven't gotten a close enough look to say in which planes
            it's warped. I know it seems inconceivable--mine was planed, glassed
            and glued just two years ago. And Bill S. has the same problem.
          • Peter Vanderwaart
            My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems. Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work well. It would be heavy enought to do
            Message 5 of 23 , Feb 1, 2000
              My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems.

              Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work well. It
              would be heavy enought to do without lead inserts - a great convenience
              in the building. If you don't have a wooden core, I see no reason to
              use epoxy instead of polyester.

              The problem with using wood or, more especially, foam as a core is that
              the board may turn out to have positive buoyancy.

              There was an article in the Catboat Bulletin some years ago by a man
              who made a new centerboard for his Marshall catboat using an aluminum
              core (which was quite flexible), covered by FG. I wonder if there is
              some other possibility in the stacks at Home Depot. Perhaps some sort
              waterproof panel material used behind tile walls in bathrooms or under
              showers could be used as a core material.

              Peter
            • djost
              My 1969 Enterprise racing dinghy, a Jack Holt design, has a wooden centerboard. It is made out of marine ply and definitely has positive buoyancy. This is
              Message 6 of 23 , Feb 1, 2000
                My 1969 Enterprise racing dinghy, a Jack Holt design, has a wooden
                centerboard. It is made out of marine ply and definitely has positive
                buoyancy. This is offset by a grip that consists of what looks like a pair
                of rubber hoses (perhaps old bicycle tires) screwed down so that they grip
                the board just enough so that it does not pop back up. Upwind, the
                combination of leeway and the rubber grips holds the board down.
                Downwind, when the boat starts to come up on plane the board will lift
                about half way up due to the lack of leeward pressure and the speed of the
                boat. That is ok as the boat is much faster with the board raised anyway.

                The biggest problem is that the board is susceptible to breakage. I think
                that it is just strong enough to stand on to right a capsized craft. I had
                occasion to do this last August in Wychmere Harbor on Cape Cod. The mast
                was stuck in the mud and the board held me ok. I have broken two boards
                since 1969, but I think that would be expected on a craft this old.

                Peter Vanderwaart wrote:

                > My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems.
                >
                > Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work well. It
                > would be heavy enought to do without lead inserts - a great convenience
                > in the building. If you don't have a wooden core, I see no reason to
                > use epoxy instead of polyester.
                >
                > The problem with using wood or, more especially, foam as a core is that
                > the board may turn out to have positive buoyancy.
                >
                > There was an article in the Catboat Bulletin some years ago by a man
                > who made a new centerboard for his Marshall catboat using an aluminum
                > core (which was quite flexible), covered by FG. I wonder if there is
                > some other possibility in the stacks at Home Depot. Perhaps some sort
                > waterproof panel material used behind tile walls in bathrooms or under
                > showers could be used as a core material.
                >
                > Peter
                >
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              • Peter Vanderwaart
                Jack Holt used the same centerboard construction on the GP-14, which was the boat my family had when I was growing up. As I remember, the rubber friction
                Message 7 of 23 , Feb 1, 2000
                  Jack Holt used the same centerboard construction on the GP-14, which
                  was the boat my family had when I was growing up. As I remember, the
                  rubber friction device had a couple of screws. If you tightened them
                  down, the rubber squished to the sides, increasing friction.

                  Once when the friction wasn't holding the board down properly at a
                  regatta, we tied it down. Then, when we hit a reef, the board broke at
                  the pivot pin.

                  Peter.

                  djost <djos-@...> wrote:
                  original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=2183
                  > My 1969 Enterprise racing dinghy, a Jack Holt design, has a wooden
                  > centerboard. It is made out of marine ply and definitely has positive
                  > buoyancy. This is offset by a grip that consists of what looks like
                  a pair
                  > of rubber hoses (perhaps old bicycle tires) screwed down so that they
                  grip
                  > the board just enough so that it does not pop back up. Upwind, the
                  > combination of leeway and the rubber grips holds the board down.
                  > Downwind, when the boat starts to come up on plane the board will
                  lift
                  > about half way up due to the lack of leeward pressure and the speed
                  of the
                  > boat. That is ok as the boat is much faster with the board raised
                  anyway.
                  >
                  > The biggest problem is that the board is susceptible to breakage. I
                  think
                  > that it is just strong enough to stand on to right a capsized craft.
                  I had
                  > occasion to do this last August in Wychmere Harbor on Cape Cod. The
                  mast
                  > was stuck in the mud and the board held me ok. I have broken two
                  boards
                  > since 1969, but I think that would be expected on a craft this old.
                  >
                  > Peter Vanderwaart wrote:
                  >
                  > > My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems.
                  > >
                  > > Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work
                  well. It
                  > > would be heavy enought to do without lead inserts - a great
                  convenience
                  > > in the building. If you don't have a wooden core, I see no reason to
                  > > use epoxy instead of polyester.
                  > >
                  > > The problem with using wood or, more especially, foam as a core is
                  that
                  > > the board may turn out to have positive buoyancy.
                  > >
                  > > There was an article in the Catboat Bulletin some years ago by a man
                  > > who made a new centerboard for his Marshall catboat using an
                  aluminum
                  > > core (which was quite flexible), covered by FG. I wonder if there is
                  > > some other possibility in the stacks at Home Depot. Perhaps some
                  sort
                  > > waterproof panel material used behind tile walls in bathrooms or
                  under
                  > > showers could be used as a core material.
                  > >
                  > > Peter
                  > >
                • Fraser Howell
                  My Chebacco centreboard is a sandwich of 1/2 exterior ply enclosing 1/4 aluminum. I had originally glued it with an epoxy that was formulated to stick to
                  Message 8 of 23 , Feb 1, 2000
                    My Chebacco centreboard is a sandwich of 1/2 " exterior ply enclosing
                    1/4" aluminum. I had originally glued it with an epoxy that was
                    formulated to stick to Al, but the board had started to delaminate by
                    the end of the first season. I then wrapped the edges in cloth and
                    epoxy, but that got stuck in the case by mid-summer. I've given up on
                    glue for the centrboard, and on trying to make the affair waterproof. I
                    riveted the whole thing with copper rivets prior to last season, and
                    have had no problems. The board is rigid, and takes the ground well, and
                    only needed about 3 lb of lead to sink properly.
                    The Chebacco rudder is welded al, and it has held up well. It has a
                    horizontal plate on the bottom, and I use it as a boarding ladder when
                    swimming.
                    Cheers;
                    Fraser Howell
                  • Robert N. Lundy
                    Oooo.... Every once in while (ok, pretty often) I m amazed at some of the original thinking on this list. Using the concrete backerboard from Home Depot would
                    Message 9 of 23 , Feb 1, 2000
                      Oooo....

                      Every once in while (ok, pretty often) I'm amazed at some of the original
                      thinking on this list. Using the concrete backerboard from Home Depot would
                      give some heft and glass/epoxy should stick. And you could leave out the
                      lead as the concrete might have enough negative bouancy to sink the whole
                      thing. And this is a product that's designed to withstand water in the
                      first place.

                      Neat idea. Who wants to try it?

                      Robert & Amy Lundy
                      St. Petersburg, fla.
                      robert@...
                      amy@...


                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Peter Vanderwaart [mailto:pvanderw@...]
                      > Sent: February 01, 2000 2:48 PM
                      > To: bolger@...
                      > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems.
                      >
                      > Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work well. It
                      > would be heavy enought to do without lead inserts - a great convenience
                      > in the building. If you don't have a wooden core, I see no reason to
                      > use epoxy instead of polyester.
                      >
                      > The problem with using wood or, more especially, foam as a core is that
                      > the board may turn out to have positive buoyancy.
                      >
                      > There was an article in the Catboat Bulletin some years ago by a man
                      > who made a new centerboard for his Marshall catboat using an aluminum
                      > core (which was quite flexible), covered by FG. I wonder if there is
                      > some other possibility in the stacks at Home Depot. Perhaps some sort
                      > waterproof panel material used behind tile walls in bathrooms or under
                      > showers could be used as a core material.
                      >
                      > Peter
                      >
                      >
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                    • Lincoln Ross
                      An aircraft homebuilding book I have says that gluing to aluminum can be very difficult. All sorts of very careful surface prep required to get a really
                      Message 10 of 23 , Feb 1, 2000
                        An aircraft homebuilding book I have says that gluing to aluminum can
                        be very difficult. All sorts of very careful surface prep required to
                        get a really reliable joint. scrub, phosphoric acid, distilled water
                        rinse, proper handling of cleaning rags, etc. CLeanliness absolutely
                        critical. Not to even be touched with hands. One trick was to put on
                        thin layer of slow epoxy and THEN do a final scrub, as epoxy would
                        prevent oxidation, etc. Of course you'd have to wipe the debris off.

                        fraser.howel-@... (fraser howell) wrote:
                        snipglued it with an epoxy that was
                        > formulated to stick to Al, but the board had started to delaminate by
                        > the end of the first season.
                        >
                      • John Bell
                        I knew a guy who built wooden kayak paddles. He used aluminum plate sandwiched in between the wooden faces to make a durable tip. He said he tried everything
                        Message 11 of 23 , Feb 1, 2000
                          I knew a guy who built wooden kayak paddles. He used aluminum plate
                          sandwiched in between the wooden faces to make a durable tip. He said he
                          tried everything to get that aluminum to stick because the tips getting
                          knocked out was the number one reason for returns. His solution to the
                          problem was pretty simple. He would drill a number of holes in the aluminum.
                          Then, he'd thread the holes with thick fiberglass yarn pulled off a piece of
                          heavy glass cloth. Then he would slather the slot in the tip of the paddle
                          with epoxy and slide the aluminum tip in. He later converted to plastic tips
                          using this technique. I suspect it would work pretty well for making a
                          plywood centerboard with an aluminum center, too.

                          John Bell
                          Kennesaw, GA
                          jmbell@...
                          http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@...>
                          To: <bolger@...>
                          Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 9:32 PM
                          Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats


                          > An aircraft homebuilding book I have says that gluing to aluminum can
                          > be very difficult. All sorts of very careful surface prep required to
                          > get a really reliable joint. scrub, phosphoric acid, distilled water
                          > rinse, proper handling of cleaning rags, etc. CLeanliness absolutely
                          > critical. Not to even be touched with hands. One trick was to put on
                          > thin layer of slow epoxy and THEN do a final scrub, as epoxy would
                          > prevent oxidation, etc. Of course you'd have to wipe the debris off.
                          >
                          > fraser.howel-@... (fraser howell) wrote:
                          > snipglued it with an epoxy that was
                          > > formulated to stick to Al, but the board had started to delaminate by
                          > > the end of the first season.
                          > >
                          >
                          >
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                        • Lincoln Ross
                          The aircraft book I have says to do both. BUt then again, your boat will still float if your board brakes. I think the epoxy layer helps, but if you have a
                          Message 12 of 23 , Feb 1, 2000
                            The aircraft book I have says to do both. BUt then again, your boat
                            will still float if your board brakes. I think the epoxy layer helps,
                            but if you have a little oil in there I'll bet you are still sunk.

                            david <galvin-@...> wrote:
                            original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=2202
                            > Lincoln:
                            > The Gougeon Brothers describe a technique of bonding epoxy to metals
                            where
                            > you clean the metal up and apply a layer of epoxy, then scrub the wet
                            > epoxied surface with stainless steel wool or wet and dry sandpapersnip
                            > > An aircraft homebuilding book I have says that snip
                          • david
                            Lincoln: The Gougeon Brothers describe a technique of bonding epoxy to metals where you clean the metal up and apply a layer of epoxy, then scrub the wet
                            Message 13 of 23 , Feb 1, 2000
                              Lincoln:
                              The Gougeon Brothers describe a technique of bonding epoxy to metals where you clean the metal up and apply a layer of epoxy, then scrub the wet epoxied surface with stainless steel wool or wet and dry sandpaper to achieve a raw surface onto which the epoxy and thus the wood, can bond. The sanding dust remains in the epoxy, where it presumably does no harm. I haven't tried this, but it seems workable on aluminum, and would save you the demanding surface prep that is usually required, as you suggest. Someone mentioned fastening the plywood to the aluminum with copper rivets, I think. In seawater I believe this would turn the board into a nice battery and rapidly devour the aluminum. You could get away with it in most fresh water environments, however,
                              david

                              Lincoln Ross wrote:

                              An aircraft homebuilding book I have says that gluing to aluminum can
                              be very difficult. All sorts of very careful surface prep required to
                              get a really reliable joint. scrub, phosphoric acid, distilled water
                              rinse, proper handling of cleaning rags, etc. CLeanliness absolutely
                              critical. Not to even be touched with hands.  One trick was to put on
                              thin layer of slow epoxy and THEN do a final scrub, as epoxy would
                              prevent oxidation, etc. Of course you'd have to wipe the debris off.

                              fraser.howel-@... (fraser howell) wrote:
                              snipglued it with an epoxy that was
                              > formulated to stick to Al, but the board had started to delaminate by
                              > the end of the first season.
                              >

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                            • Bill Samson
                              ... A wee bit of lateral thinking here - but have you checked the slot and made sure that it s not getting narrower (i.e. sides swelling)? That d have the
                              Message 14 of 23 , Feb 2, 2000
                                >get the **$�$! board out,
                                >plane it
                                > > down a bit, re-glass and epoxy it.
                                >
                                >
                                >Bill, that was my fix the last time around. Lasted two seasons. And
                                >the work was done by a reputable yard, not disreputable me.
                                >
                                >

                                A wee bit of lateral thinking here - but have you checked the slot and made
                                sure that it's not getting narrower (i.e. sides swelling)? That'd have the
                                same effect as a swelling board (though harder to fix). The slot should be
                                1.5" wide all over. The board should be 1.25" thick in the middle.

                                Have PCB&F got any views on the suitability of a steel centreplate for a
                                Chebacco?

                                Bill

                                Bill

                                Bill
                                ______________________________________________________
                              • Fries, John
                                Very interresting. A discussion a few days back about the relative ease of building the Single Handed Schooner vs. Light Schooner focused on the lead in the
                                Message 15 of 23 , Feb 2, 2000
                                  Very interresting. A discussion a few days back about the relative ease of
                                  building the Single Handed Schooner vs. Light Schooner focused on the lead
                                  in the centerboard. How about using concrete? I know it wouldn't be as
                                  heavy as the lead, but, if you coated the interior of the void to be filled
                                  with epoxy first, that could address concerns about rot at the wood/concrete
                                  interface. Probably would coat the outside of the concrete with epoxy for
                                  further waterproofing. Is this crazy?

                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: Robert N. Lundy [SMTP:robert@...]
                                  > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 5:41 PM
                                  > To: bolger@egroups.com
                                  > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
                                  >
                                  > Oooo....
                                  >
                                  > Every once in while (ok, pretty often) I'm amazed at some of the original
                                  > thinking on this list. Using the concrete backerboard from Home Depot
                                  > would
                                  > give some heft and glass/epoxy should stick. And you could leave out the
                                  > lead as the concrete might have enough negative bouancy to sink the whole
                                  > thing. And this is a product that's designed to withstand water in the
                                  > first place.
                                  >
                                  > Neat idea. Who wants to try it?
                                  >
                                  > Robert & Amy Lundy
                                  > St. Petersburg, fla.
                                  > robert@...
                                  > amy@...
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > > From: Peter Vanderwaart [mailto:pvanderw@...]
                                  > > Sent: February 01, 2000 2:48 PM
                                  > > To: bolger@...
                                  > > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems.
                                  > >
                                  > > Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work well. It
                                  > > would be heavy enought to do without lead inserts - a great convenience
                                  > > in the building. If you don't have a wooden core, I see no reason to
                                  > > use epoxy instead of polyester.
                                  > >
                                  > > The problem with using wood or, more especially, foam as a core is that
                                  > > the board may turn out to have positive buoyancy.
                                  > >
                                  > > There was an article in the Catboat Bulletin some years ago by a man
                                  > > who made a new centerboard for his Marshall catboat using an aluminum
                                  > > core (which was quite flexible), covered by FG. I wonder if there is
                                  > > some other possibility in the stacks at Home Depot. Perhaps some sort
                                  > > waterproof panel material used behind tile walls in bathrooms or under
                                  > > showers could be used as a core material.
                                  > >
                                  > > Peter
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0%
                                  > > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!
                                  > > http://click.egroups.com/1/975/5/_/3457/_/949434489/
                                  > >
                                  > > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
                                  > > -- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/bolger/?m=1
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                • Fries, John
                                  Yes, that s a good point and another very good idea. Having all these minds working on a problem is an example of the net acting as a distributed processing
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Feb 2, 2000
                                    Yes, that's a good point and another very good idea. Having all these minds
                                    working on a problem is an example of the net acting as a 'distributed
                                    processing platform' for all of us biological computers.

                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: Chuck Leinweber [SMTP:duckworks@...]
                                    > Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 3:15 PM
                                    > To: bolger@egroups.com
                                    > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
                                    >
                                    > John:
                                    >
                                    > IMHO the advantage of concrete for ballast is it's ability to conform to
                                    > odd
                                    > shapes in the bilges of larger (preferably steel) boats. Wouldn't steel
                                    > plate encased in epoxy would be better than concrete in this application?
                                    >
                                    > Chuck Leinweber
                                    > Duckworks Magazine
                                    > http://www.duckworksmagazine.com
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: Fries, John <John.Fries@...>
                                    > To: <bolger@egroups.com>
                                    > Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 6:55 AM
                                    > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > > Very interresting. A discussion a few days back about the relative ease
                                    > of
                                    > > building the Single Handed Schooner vs. Light Schooner focused on the
                                    > lead
                                    > > in the centerboard. How about using concrete? I know it wouldn't be as
                                    > > heavy as the lead, but, if you coated the interior of the void to be
                                    > filled
                                    > > with epoxy first, that could address concerns about rot at the
                                    > wood/concrete
                                    > > interface. Probably would coat the outside of the concrete with epoxy
                                    > for
                                    > > further waterproofing. Is this crazy?
                                    > >
                                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > > From: Robert N. Lundy [SMTP:robert@...]
                                    > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 5:41 PM
                                    > > > To: bolger@egroups.com
                                    > > > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Oooo....
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Every once in while (ok, pretty often) I'm amazed at some of the
                                    > original
                                    > > > thinking on this list. Using the concrete backerboard from Home Depot
                                    > > > would
                                    > > > give some heft and glass/epoxy should stick. And you could leave out
                                    > the
                                    > > > lead as the concrete might have enough negative bouancy to sink the
                                    > whole
                                    > > > thing. And this is a product that's designed to withstand water in
                                    > the
                                    > > > first place.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Neat idea. Who wants to try it?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Robert & Amy Lundy
                                    > > > St. Petersburg, fla.
                                    > > > robert@...
                                    > > > amy@...
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > > > From: Peter Vanderwaart [mailto:pvanderw@...]
                                    > > > > Sent: February 01, 2000 2:48 PM
                                    > > > > To: bolger@...
                                    > > > > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work well.
                                    > It
                                    > > > > would be heavy enought to do without lead inserts - a great
                                    > convenience
                                    > > > > in the building. If you don't have a wooden core, I see no reason to
                                    > > > > use epoxy instead of polyester.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > The problem with using wood or, more especially, foam as a core is
                                    > that
                                    > > > > the board may turn out to have positive buoyancy.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > There was an article in the Catboat Bulletin some years ago by a man
                                    > > > > who made a new centerboard for his Marshall catboat using an
                                    > aluminum
                                    > > > > core (which was quite flexible), covered by FG. I wonder if there is
                                    > > > > some other possibility in the stacks at Home Depot. Perhaps some
                                    > sort
                                    > > > > waterproof panel material used behind tile walls in bathrooms or
                                    > under
                                    > > > > showers could be used as a core material.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Peter
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0%
                                    > > > > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!
                                    > > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/975/5/_/3457/_/949434489/
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
                                    > > > > -- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/bolger/?m=1
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9%
                                    > > > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points,
                                    > > > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the
                                    > > > credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at:
                                    > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/929/5/_/3457/_/949444841/
                                    > > >
                                    > > > eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/
                                    > > > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0%
                                    > > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!
                                    > > http://click.egroups.com/1/933/5/_/3457/_/949503355/
                                    > >
                                    > > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
                                    > > -- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/bolger/?m=1
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                    > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!
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                                    >
                                  • Chuck Leinweber
                                    John: IMHO the advantage of concrete for ballast is it s ability to conform to odd shapes in the bilges of larger (preferably steel) boats. Wouldn t steel
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Feb 2, 2000
                                      John:

                                      IMHO the advantage of concrete for ballast is it's ability to conform to odd
                                      shapes in the bilges of larger (preferably steel) boats. Wouldn't steel
                                      plate encased in epoxy would be better than concrete in this application?

                                      Chuck Leinweber
                                      Duckworks Magazine
                                      http://www.duckworksmagazine.com


                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Fries, John <John.Fries@...>
                                      To: <bolger@egroups.com>
                                      Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 6:55 AM
                                      Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats


                                      > Very interresting. A discussion a few days back about the relative ease
                                      of
                                      > building the Single Handed Schooner vs. Light Schooner focused on the lead
                                      > in the centerboard. How about using concrete? I know it wouldn't be as
                                      > heavy as the lead, but, if you coated the interior of the void to be
                                      filled
                                      > with epoxy first, that could address concerns about rot at the
                                      wood/concrete
                                      > interface. Probably would coat the outside of the concrete with epoxy for
                                      > further waterproofing. Is this crazy?
                                      >
                                      > > -----Original Message-----
                                      > > From: Robert N. Lundy [SMTP:robert@...]
                                      > > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 5:41 PM
                                      > > To: bolger@egroups.com
                                      > > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
                                      > >
                                      > > Oooo....
                                      > >
                                      > > Every once in while (ok, pretty often) I'm amazed at some of the
                                      original
                                      > > thinking on this list. Using the concrete backerboard from Home Depot
                                      > > would
                                      > > give some heft and glass/epoxy should stick. And you could leave out
                                      the
                                      > > lead as the concrete might have enough negative bouancy to sink the
                                      whole
                                      > > thing. And this is a product that's designed to withstand water in the
                                      > > first place.
                                      > >
                                      > > Neat idea. Who wants to try it?
                                      > >
                                      > > Robert & Amy Lundy
                                      > > St. Petersburg, fla.
                                      > > robert@...
                                      > > amy@...
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > > -----Original Message-----
                                      > > > From: Peter Vanderwaart [mailto:pvanderw@...]
                                      > > > Sent: February 01, 2000 2:48 PM
                                      > > > To: bolger@...
                                      > > > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work well.
                                      It
                                      > > > would be heavy enought to do without lead inserts - a great
                                      convenience
                                      > > > in the building. If you don't have a wooden core, I see no reason to
                                      > > > use epoxy instead of polyester.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > The problem with using wood or, more especially, foam as a core is
                                      that
                                      > > > the board may turn out to have positive buoyancy.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > There was an article in the Catboat Bulletin some years ago by a man
                                      > > > who made a new centerboard for his Marshall catboat using an aluminum
                                      > > > core (which was quite flexible), covered by FG. I wonder if there is
                                      > > > some other possibility in the stacks at Home Depot. Perhaps some sort
                                      > > > waterproof panel material used behind tile walls in bathrooms or under
                                      > > > showers could be used as a core material.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Peter
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0%
                                      > > > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!
                                      > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/975/5/_/3457/_/949434489/
                                      > > >
                                      > > > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
                                      > > > -- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/bolger/?m=1
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9%
                                      > > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points,
                                      > > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the
                                      > > credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at:
                                      > > http://click.egroups.com/1/929/5/_/3457/_/949444841/
                                      > >
                                      > > eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/
                                      > > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0%
                                      > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!
                                      > http://click.egroups.com/1/933/5/_/3457/_/949503355/
                                      >
                                      > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
                                      > -- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/bolger/?m=1
                                      >
                                      >
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