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[bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats

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  • Richard
    For my D4 learning experiance, I used CDX pine from Home Depot and Titebond II glue. Haven t see any warping in the water or caused by rain yet.
    Message 1 of 23 , Jan 30, 2000
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      For my D4 learning experiance, I used CDX pine from Home Depot and Titebond II glue. Haven't see any warping in the water or caused by rain yet.

      "Behrendt, Tom" wrote:

      Hi all:

      In my one finished boat, a D4 pram, made as a learning experience, emphasis on
      learning, I did run into significant board warping, in hindsight due to
      first-timer stupidity, but here's my experiences for what they are worth.
      Dagger board was built of 2 pieces of 1/4" ACX ply epoxied together and clear
      (unthickened) epoxy coated on the outside. The "glueing" epoxy was not
      thickened enough, first time it rained with the board outside the lamination
      ripped apart, both sides cupped significantly, I saw many areas on the inside
      that did not bond properly due to lack of epoxy. Where it did bond properly,
      the wood tore apart at one of the other glue lines (i.e the glue lines in the
      original plywood). Moral of the story, warping is a powerful force! As it was
      near the end of the season, and we just wanted to get the boat in the water, I
      went with a single 1/4' board, epoxy coated. Put it in the water it bends like
      a banana (lengthwise warping) in about 5 minutes. Take it out and it dries to
      more or less straight in a day or two. Put it back in...banana! As we were
      still able to get it up and down the daggerboard trunk even in it's banana
      shape and it didn't effect the boat's performance much my son and I just lived
      with it, I'll cook up something better for the next season.  I think that the
      boat gets slightly more leeway when it's on the port tack, the curve - convex
      side - facing downwind, my son doesn't think so, but he's been sailing a few
      decades less than me. Either way it works "OK" for now. The rudder, on the
      other hand is made out of a single piece of 1/2" nameless scrap ply and has not
      warped at all. The strange part is that this particular piece of scrap has been
      sitting out in my yard for at least two years, I used it as a rudder
      specifically because it hadn't warped in all that time, this greyish,
      dirt-stained hunk of ply. Go figure.

      As for the "correct" way to do it, Dynamite Payson strongly reccomends using
      marine ply for boards, even if you are using "el cheapo" ply for the rest, hows
      that for backwards? Dave Carnell repeatedly writes that epoxy-coating is
      useless for waterproffing and my experiences with the coated boards seem to
      agree with that reasoning. I would assume that making a glass board involves
      using glass cloth/matt around a core of some sort, as written up by others in
      this thread. Would enough layers keep significant moisture away from a cheap
      wood core? Dunno. But, seeing as how any warping WILL crack your board, and
      given the amount of epoxy you'd be using for an expiramental wood-core board, I
      think that one would be better off going with a foam core in the first place,
      after all, that's what the surfboarders do nowadays - the old "woodie"
      longboards are laminates if I remember correctly (laminated perpendicular to
      the board surface). Does anyone have experience with topnotch marine-ply
      boards?

      Cheers!

      Tom

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    • Samson family
      I ve got the same problem as Tim. The major job in this year s maintenance is to hoist the Chebacco high enough to get the **$£$! board out, plane it down a
      Message 2 of 23 , Feb 1 10:08 AM
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        I've got the same problem as Tim. The major job in this year's maintenance
        is to hoist the Chebacco high enough to get the **$£$! board out, plane it
        down a bit, re-glass and epoxy it.

        A sticking CB certainly puts a damper on going sailing.

        Bill
      • Lincoln Ross
        tim smith wrote: osnip ... I ve seen glass rudders on Hobies. Seems like you might want some wood or lots of layers on the
        Message 3 of 23 , Feb 1 10:54 AM
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          "tim smith" <timk_smit-@...> wrote:
          osnip
          > "Fiberglass construction makes the best centerboard Isnip
          >
          > snipThe idea sounds good to me, but I'm ignorant: are glass
          > boards standard in glass boats? Osnip

          I've seen glass rudders on Hobies. Seems like you might want some wood
          or lots of layers on the bottom and leading edge of a board. If you
          made a foam core board it would be very easy to hot wire a very nice
          airfoil shape. In simplest case all you would need is two templates, a
          homemade bow to keep the wire tight, some .020" music wire, some jumper
          cables and two 12 V batteries or a charger and a 12V battery. If you
          look around model airplane sights or airplane homebuilding sites I am
          sure you will find out how to do this. Of course if you use urethane
          you mustn't hot wire it due to toxicity.

          One model site: www.charlesriverrc.org (that's where I'd start looking
          if I needed this info)
        • Tim Smith
          samson family wrote: original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=2172 ... maintenance ... plane it ... Bill, that was
          Message 4 of 23 , Feb 1 11:13 AM
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            "samson family" <bill.samso-@...> wrote:
            original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=2172
            > I've got the same problem as Tim. The major job in this year's
            maintenance
            > is to hoist the Chebacco high enough to get the **$£$! board out,
            plane it
            > down a bit, re-glass and epoxy it.


            Bill, that was my fix the last time around. Lasted two seasons. And
            the work was done by a reputable yard, not disreputable me.
          • Tim Smith
            orr, jamie wrote: original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=2167 ... or bend ... will ... warping! ... Jamie, my board was
            Message 5 of 23 , Feb 1 11:23 AM
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              "orr, jamie" <jor-@...> wrote:
              original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=2167
              > Tim
              >
              > How is your board made? And how did it warp -- that is did it cup,
              or bend
              > longwise, or twist, or whatever?
              >
              > My own board is still standing in the shed, so I have no idea what
              will
              > happen when it gets wet. However, with three pieces of ply laminated
              > together, then covered in glass, I'm amazed it can even think about
              warping!
              >
              > Jamie Orr
              >
              Jamie, my board was made by Brad Story, who I guess is said to have
              wrangled with PCB about construction; don't know if any changes were
              made here. Haven't gotten a close enough look to say in which planes
              it's warped. I know it seems inconceivable--mine was planed, glassed
              and glued just two years ago. And Bill S. has the same problem.
            • Peter Vanderwaart
              My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems. Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work well. It would be heavy enought to do
              Message 6 of 23 , Feb 1 11:48 AM
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                My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems.

                Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work well. It
                would be heavy enought to do without lead inserts - a great convenience
                in the building. If you don't have a wooden core, I see no reason to
                use epoxy instead of polyester.

                The problem with using wood or, more especially, foam as a core is that
                the board may turn out to have positive buoyancy.

                There was an article in the Catboat Bulletin some years ago by a man
                who made a new centerboard for his Marshall catboat using an aluminum
                core (which was quite flexible), covered by FG. I wonder if there is
                some other possibility in the stacks at Home Depot. Perhaps some sort
                waterproof panel material used behind tile walls in bathrooms or under
                showers could be used as a core material.

                Peter
              • djost
                My 1969 Enterprise racing dinghy, a Jack Holt design, has a wooden centerboard. It is made out of marine ply and definitely has positive buoyancy. This is
                Message 7 of 23 , Feb 1 12:45 PM
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                  My 1969 Enterprise racing dinghy, a Jack Holt design, has a wooden
                  centerboard. It is made out of marine ply and definitely has positive
                  buoyancy. This is offset by a grip that consists of what looks like a pair
                  of rubber hoses (perhaps old bicycle tires) screwed down so that they grip
                  the board just enough so that it does not pop back up. Upwind, the
                  combination of leeway and the rubber grips holds the board down.
                  Downwind, when the boat starts to come up on plane the board will lift
                  about half way up due to the lack of leeward pressure and the speed of the
                  boat. That is ok as the boat is much faster with the board raised anyway.

                  The biggest problem is that the board is susceptible to breakage. I think
                  that it is just strong enough to stand on to right a capsized craft. I had
                  occasion to do this last August in Wychmere Harbor on Cape Cod. The mast
                  was stuck in the mud and the board held me ok. I have broken two boards
                  since 1969, but I think that would be expected on a craft this old.

                  Peter Vanderwaart wrote:

                  > My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems.
                  >
                  > Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work well. It
                  > would be heavy enought to do without lead inserts - a great convenience
                  > in the building. If you don't have a wooden core, I see no reason to
                  > use epoxy instead of polyester.
                  >
                  > The problem with using wood or, more especially, foam as a core is that
                  > the board may turn out to have positive buoyancy.
                  >
                  > There was an article in the Catboat Bulletin some years ago by a man
                  > who made a new centerboard for his Marshall catboat using an aluminum
                  > core (which was quite flexible), covered by FG. I wonder if there is
                  > some other possibility in the stacks at Home Depot. Perhaps some sort
                  > waterproof panel material used behind tile walls in bathrooms or under
                  > showers could be used as a core material.
                  >
                  > Peter
                  >
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                • Peter Vanderwaart
                  Jack Holt used the same centerboard construction on the GP-14, which was the boat my family had when I was growing up. As I remember, the rubber friction
                  Message 8 of 23 , Feb 1 1:20 PM
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                    Jack Holt used the same centerboard construction on the GP-14, which
                    was the boat my family had when I was growing up. As I remember, the
                    rubber friction device had a couple of screws. If you tightened them
                    down, the rubber squished to the sides, increasing friction.

                    Once when the friction wasn't holding the board down properly at a
                    regatta, we tied it down. Then, when we hit a reef, the board broke at
                    the pivot pin.

                    Peter.

                    djost <djos-@...> wrote:
                    original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=2183
                    > My 1969 Enterprise racing dinghy, a Jack Holt design, has a wooden
                    > centerboard. It is made out of marine ply and definitely has positive
                    > buoyancy. This is offset by a grip that consists of what looks like
                    a pair
                    > of rubber hoses (perhaps old bicycle tires) screwed down so that they
                    grip
                    > the board just enough so that it does not pop back up. Upwind, the
                    > combination of leeway and the rubber grips holds the board down.
                    > Downwind, when the boat starts to come up on plane the board will
                    lift
                    > about half way up due to the lack of leeward pressure and the speed
                    of the
                    > boat. That is ok as the boat is much faster with the board raised
                    anyway.
                    >
                    > The biggest problem is that the board is susceptible to breakage. I
                    think
                    > that it is just strong enough to stand on to right a capsized craft.
                    I had
                    > occasion to do this last August in Wychmere Harbor on Cape Cod. The
                    mast
                    > was stuck in the mud and the board held me ok. I have broken two
                    boards
                    > since 1969, but I think that would be expected on a craft this old.
                    >
                    > Peter Vanderwaart wrote:
                    >
                    > > My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems.
                    > >
                    > > Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work
                    well. It
                    > > would be heavy enought to do without lead inserts - a great
                    convenience
                    > > in the building. If you don't have a wooden core, I see no reason to
                    > > use epoxy instead of polyester.
                    > >
                    > > The problem with using wood or, more especially, foam as a core is
                    that
                    > > the board may turn out to have positive buoyancy.
                    > >
                    > > There was an article in the Catboat Bulletin some years ago by a man
                    > > who made a new centerboard for his Marshall catboat using an
                    aluminum
                    > > core (which was quite flexible), covered by FG. I wonder if there is
                    > > some other possibility in the stacks at Home Depot. Perhaps some
                    sort
                    > > waterproof panel material used behind tile walls in bathrooms or
                    under
                    > > showers could be used as a core material.
                    > >
                    > > Peter
                    > >
                  • Fraser Howell
                    My Chebacco centreboard is a sandwich of 1/2 exterior ply enclosing 1/4 aluminum. I had originally glued it with an epoxy that was formulated to stick to
                    Message 9 of 23 , Feb 1 1:39 PM
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                      My Chebacco centreboard is a sandwich of 1/2 " exterior ply enclosing
                      1/4" aluminum. I had originally glued it with an epoxy that was
                      formulated to stick to Al, but the board had started to delaminate by
                      the end of the first season. I then wrapped the edges in cloth and
                      epoxy, but that got stuck in the case by mid-summer. I've given up on
                      glue for the centrboard, and on trying to make the affair waterproof. I
                      riveted the whole thing with copper rivets prior to last season, and
                      have had no problems. The board is rigid, and takes the ground well, and
                      only needed about 3 lb of lead to sink properly.
                      The Chebacco rudder is welded al, and it has held up well. It has a
                      horizontal plate on the bottom, and I use it as a boarding ladder when
                      swimming.
                      Cheers;
                      Fraser Howell
                    • Robert N. Lundy
                      Oooo.... Every once in while (ok, pretty often) I m amazed at some of the original thinking on this list. Using the concrete backerboard from Home Depot would
                      Message 10 of 23 , Feb 1 2:40 PM
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                        Oooo....

                        Every once in while (ok, pretty often) I'm amazed at some of the original
                        thinking on this list. Using the concrete backerboard from Home Depot would
                        give some heft and glass/epoxy should stick. And you could leave out the
                        lead as the concrete might have enough negative bouancy to sink the whole
                        thing. And this is a product that's designed to withstand water in the
                        first place.

                        Neat idea. Who wants to try it?

                        Robert & Amy Lundy
                        St. Petersburg, fla.
                        robert@...
                        amy@...


                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Peter Vanderwaart [mailto:pvanderw@...]
                        > Sent: February 01, 2000 2:48 PM
                        > To: bolger@...
                        > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems.
                        >
                        > Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work well. It
                        > would be heavy enought to do without lead inserts - a great convenience
                        > in the building. If you don't have a wooden core, I see no reason to
                        > use epoxy instead of polyester.
                        >
                        > The problem with using wood or, more especially, foam as a core is that
                        > the board may turn out to have positive buoyancy.
                        >
                        > There was an article in the Catboat Bulletin some years ago by a man
                        > who made a new centerboard for his Marshall catboat using an aluminum
                        > core (which was quite flexible), covered by FG. I wonder if there is
                        > some other possibility in the stacks at Home Depot. Perhaps some sort
                        > waterproof panel material used behind tile walls in bathrooms or under
                        > showers could be used as a core material.
                        >
                        > Peter
                        >
                        >
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                      • Lincoln Ross
                        An aircraft homebuilding book I have says that gluing to aluminum can be very difficult. All sorts of very careful surface prep required to get a really
                        Message 11 of 23 , Feb 1 6:32 PM
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                          An aircraft homebuilding book I have says that gluing to aluminum can
                          be very difficult. All sorts of very careful surface prep required to
                          get a really reliable joint. scrub, phosphoric acid, distilled water
                          rinse, proper handling of cleaning rags, etc. CLeanliness absolutely
                          critical. Not to even be touched with hands. One trick was to put on
                          thin layer of slow epoxy and THEN do a final scrub, as epoxy would
                          prevent oxidation, etc. Of course you'd have to wipe the debris off.

                          fraser.howel-@... (fraser howell) wrote:
                          snipglued it with an epoxy that was
                          > formulated to stick to Al, but the board had started to delaminate by
                          > the end of the first season.
                          >
                        • John Bell
                          I knew a guy who built wooden kayak paddles. He used aluminum plate sandwiched in between the wooden faces to make a durable tip. He said he tried everything
                          Message 12 of 23 , Feb 1 7:17 PM
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                            I knew a guy who built wooden kayak paddles. He used aluminum plate
                            sandwiched in between the wooden faces to make a durable tip. He said he
                            tried everything to get that aluminum to stick because the tips getting
                            knocked out was the number one reason for returns. His solution to the
                            problem was pretty simple. He would drill a number of holes in the aluminum.
                            Then, he'd thread the holes with thick fiberglass yarn pulled off a piece of
                            heavy glass cloth. Then he would slather the slot in the tip of the paddle
                            with epoxy and slide the aluminum tip in. He later converted to plastic tips
                            using this technique. I suspect it would work pretty well for making a
                            plywood centerboard with an aluminum center, too.

                            John Bell
                            Kennesaw, GA
                            jmbell@...
                            http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com


                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@...>
                            To: <bolger@...>
                            Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 9:32 PM
                            Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats


                            > An aircraft homebuilding book I have says that gluing to aluminum can
                            > be very difficult. All sorts of very careful surface prep required to
                            > get a really reliable joint. scrub, phosphoric acid, distilled water
                            > rinse, proper handling of cleaning rags, etc. CLeanliness absolutely
                            > critical. Not to even be touched with hands. One trick was to put on
                            > thin layer of slow epoxy and THEN do a final scrub, as epoxy would
                            > prevent oxidation, etc. Of course you'd have to wipe the debris off.
                            >
                            > fraser.howel-@... (fraser howell) wrote:
                            > snipglued it with an epoxy that was
                            > > formulated to stick to Al, but the board had started to delaminate by
                            > > the end of the first season.
                            > >
                            >
                            >
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                          • Lincoln Ross
                            The aircraft book I have says to do both. BUt then again, your boat will still float if your board brakes. I think the epoxy layer helps, but if you have a
                            Message 13 of 23 , Feb 1 7:28 PM
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                              The aircraft book I have says to do both. BUt then again, your boat
                              will still float if your board brakes. I think the epoxy layer helps,
                              but if you have a little oil in there I'll bet you are still sunk.

                              david <galvin-@...> wrote:
                              original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/?start=2202
                              > Lincoln:
                              > The Gougeon Brothers describe a technique of bonding epoxy to metals
                              where
                              > you clean the metal up and apply a layer of epoxy, then scrub the wet
                              > epoxied surface with stainless steel wool or wet and dry sandpapersnip
                              > > An aircraft homebuilding book I have says that snip
                            • david
                              Lincoln: The Gougeon Brothers describe a technique of bonding epoxy to metals where you clean the metal up and apply a layer of epoxy, then scrub the wet
                              Message 14 of 23 , Feb 1 9:56 PM
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                                Lincoln:
                                The Gougeon Brothers describe a technique of bonding epoxy to metals where you clean the metal up and apply a layer of epoxy, then scrub the wet epoxied surface with stainless steel wool or wet and dry sandpaper to achieve a raw surface onto which the epoxy and thus the wood, can bond. The sanding dust remains in the epoxy, where it presumably does no harm. I haven't tried this, but it seems workable on aluminum, and would save you the demanding surface prep that is usually required, as you suggest. Someone mentioned fastening the plywood to the aluminum with copper rivets, I think. In seawater I believe this would turn the board into a nice battery and rapidly devour the aluminum. You could get away with it in most fresh water environments, however,
                                david

                                Lincoln Ross wrote:

                                An aircraft homebuilding book I have says that gluing to aluminum can
                                be very difficult. All sorts of very careful surface prep required to
                                get a really reliable joint. scrub, phosphoric acid, distilled water
                                rinse, proper handling of cleaning rags, etc. CLeanliness absolutely
                                critical. Not to even be touched with hands.  One trick was to put on
                                thin layer of slow epoxy and THEN do a final scrub, as epoxy would
                                prevent oxidation, etc. Of course you'd have to wipe the debris off.

                                fraser.howel-@... (fraser howell) wrote:
                                snipglued it with an epoxy that was
                                > formulated to stick to Al, but the board had started to delaminate by
                                > the end of the first season.
                                >

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                              • Bill Samson
                                ... A wee bit of lateral thinking here - but have you checked the slot and made sure that it s not getting narrower (i.e. sides swelling)? That d have the
                                Message 15 of 23 , Feb 2 1:51 AM
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                                  >get the **$�$! board out,
                                  >plane it
                                  > > down a bit, re-glass and epoxy it.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >Bill, that was my fix the last time around. Lasted two seasons. And
                                  >the work was done by a reputable yard, not disreputable me.
                                  >
                                  >

                                  A wee bit of lateral thinking here - but have you checked the slot and made
                                  sure that it's not getting narrower (i.e. sides swelling)? That'd have the
                                  same effect as a swelling board (though harder to fix). The slot should be
                                  1.5" wide all over. The board should be 1.25" thick in the middle.

                                  Have PCB&F got any views on the suitability of a steel centreplate for a
                                  Chebacco?

                                  Bill

                                  Bill

                                  Bill
                                  ______________________________________________________
                                • Fries, John
                                  Very interresting. A discussion a few days back about the relative ease of building the Single Handed Schooner vs. Light Schooner focused on the lead in the
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Feb 2 6:55 AM
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                                    Very interresting. A discussion a few days back about the relative ease of
                                    building the Single Handed Schooner vs. Light Schooner focused on the lead
                                    in the centerboard. How about using concrete? I know it wouldn't be as
                                    heavy as the lead, but, if you coated the interior of the void to be filled
                                    with epoxy first, that could address concerns about rot at the wood/concrete
                                    interface. Probably would coat the outside of the concrete with epoxy for
                                    further waterproofing. Is this crazy?

                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: Robert N. Lundy [SMTP:robert@...]
                                    > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 5:41 PM
                                    > To: bolger@egroups.com
                                    > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
                                    >
                                    > Oooo....
                                    >
                                    > Every once in while (ok, pretty often) I'm amazed at some of the original
                                    > thinking on this list. Using the concrete backerboard from Home Depot
                                    > would
                                    > give some heft and glass/epoxy should stick. And you could leave out the
                                    > lead as the concrete might have enough negative bouancy to sink the whole
                                    > thing. And this is a product that's designed to withstand water in the
                                    > first place.
                                    >
                                    > Neat idea. Who wants to try it?
                                    >
                                    > Robert & Amy Lundy
                                    > St. Petersburg, fla.
                                    > robert@...
                                    > amy@...
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > From: Peter Vanderwaart [mailto:pvanderw@...]
                                    > > Sent: February 01, 2000 2:48 PM
                                    > > To: bolger@...
                                    > > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems.
                                    > >
                                    > > Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work well. It
                                    > > would be heavy enought to do without lead inserts - a great convenience
                                    > > in the building. If you don't have a wooden core, I see no reason to
                                    > > use epoxy instead of polyester.
                                    > >
                                    > > The problem with using wood or, more especially, foam as a core is that
                                    > > the board may turn out to have positive buoyancy.
                                    > >
                                    > > There was an article in the Catboat Bulletin some years ago by a man
                                    > > who made a new centerboard for his Marshall catboat using an aluminum
                                    > > core (which was quite flexible), covered by FG. I wonder if there is
                                    > > some other possibility in the stacks at Home Depot. Perhaps some sort
                                    > > waterproof panel material used behind tile walls in bathrooms or under
                                    > > showers could be used as a core material.
                                    > >
                                    > > Peter
                                    > >
                                    > >
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                                    > >
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                                  • Fries, John
                                    Yes, that s a good point and another very good idea. Having all these minds working on a problem is an example of the net acting as a distributed processing
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Feb 2 11:59 AM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Yes, that's a good point and another very good idea. Having all these minds
                                      working on a problem is an example of the net acting as a 'distributed
                                      processing platform' for all of us biological computers.

                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: Chuck Leinweber [SMTP:duckworks@...]
                                      > Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 3:15 PM
                                      > To: bolger@egroups.com
                                      > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
                                      >
                                      > John:
                                      >
                                      > IMHO the advantage of concrete for ballast is it's ability to conform to
                                      > odd
                                      > shapes in the bilges of larger (preferably steel) boats. Wouldn't steel
                                      > plate encased in epoxy would be better than concrete in this application?
                                      >
                                      > Chuck Leinweber
                                      > Duckworks Magazine
                                      > http://www.duckworksmagazine.com
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: Fries, John <John.Fries@...>
                                      > To: <bolger@egroups.com>
                                      > Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 6:55 AM
                                      > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > > Very interresting. A discussion a few days back about the relative ease
                                      > of
                                      > > building the Single Handed Schooner vs. Light Schooner focused on the
                                      > lead
                                      > > in the centerboard. How about using concrete? I know it wouldn't be as
                                      > > heavy as the lead, but, if you coated the interior of the void to be
                                      > filled
                                      > > with epoxy first, that could address concerns about rot at the
                                      > wood/concrete
                                      > > interface. Probably would coat the outside of the concrete with epoxy
                                      > for
                                      > > further waterproofing. Is this crazy?
                                      > >
                                      > > > -----Original Message-----
                                      > > > From: Robert N. Lundy [SMTP:robert@...]
                                      > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 5:41 PM
                                      > > > To: bolger@egroups.com
                                      > > > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Oooo....
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Every once in while (ok, pretty often) I'm amazed at some of the
                                      > original
                                      > > > thinking on this list. Using the concrete backerboard from Home Depot
                                      > > > would
                                      > > > give some heft and glass/epoxy should stick. And you could leave out
                                      > the
                                      > > > lead as the concrete might have enough negative bouancy to sink the
                                      > whole
                                      > > > thing. And this is a product that's designed to withstand water in
                                      > the
                                      > > > first place.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Neat idea. Who wants to try it?
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Robert & Amy Lundy
                                      > > > St. Petersburg, fla.
                                      > > > robert@...
                                      > > > amy@...
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                      > > > > From: Peter Vanderwaart [mailto:pvanderw@...]
                                      > > > > Sent: February 01, 2000 2:48 PM
                                      > > > > To: bolger@...
                                      > > > > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work well.
                                      > It
                                      > > > > would be heavy enought to do without lead inserts - a great
                                      > convenience
                                      > > > > in the building. If you don't have a wooden core, I see no reason to
                                      > > > > use epoxy instead of polyester.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > The problem with using wood or, more especially, foam as a core is
                                      > that
                                      > > > > the board may turn out to have positive buoyancy.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > There was an article in the Catboat Bulletin some years ago by a man
                                      > > > > who made a new centerboard for his Marshall catboat using an
                                      > aluminum
                                      > > > > core (which was quite flexible), covered by FG. I wonder if there is
                                      > > > > some other possibility in the stacks at Home Depot. Perhaps some
                                      > sort
                                      > > > > waterproof panel material used behind tile walls in bathrooms or
                                      > under
                                      > > > > showers could be used as a core material.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Peter
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      > > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0%
                                      > > > > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!
                                      > > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/975/5/_/3457/_/949434489/
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
                                      > > > > -- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/bolger/?m=1
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      > > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9%
                                      > > > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points,
                                      > > > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the
                                      > > > credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at:
                                      > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/929/5/_/3457/_/949444841/
                                      > > >
                                      > > > eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/
                                      > > > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0%
                                      > > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!
                                      > > http://click.egroups.com/1/933/5/_/3457/_/949503355/
                                      > >
                                      > > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
                                      > > -- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/bolger/?m=1
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                      > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!
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                                      >
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                                      >
                                    • Chuck Leinweber
                                      John: IMHO the advantage of concrete for ballast is it s ability to conform to odd shapes in the bilges of larger (preferably steel) boats. Wouldn t steel
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Feb 2 12:14 PM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        John:

                                        IMHO the advantage of concrete for ballast is it's ability to conform to odd
                                        shapes in the bilges of larger (preferably steel) boats. Wouldn't steel
                                        plate encased in epoxy would be better than concrete in this application?

                                        Chuck Leinweber
                                        Duckworks Magazine
                                        http://www.duckworksmagazine.com


                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: Fries, John <John.Fries@...>
                                        To: <bolger@egroups.com>
                                        Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 6:55 AM
                                        Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats


                                        > Very interresting. A discussion a few days back about the relative ease
                                        of
                                        > building the Single Handed Schooner vs. Light Schooner focused on the lead
                                        > in the centerboard. How about using concrete? I know it wouldn't be as
                                        > heavy as the lead, but, if you coated the interior of the void to be
                                        filled
                                        > with epoxy first, that could address concerns about rot at the
                                        wood/concrete
                                        > interface. Probably would coat the outside of the concrete with epoxy for
                                        > further waterproofing. Is this crazy?
                                        >
                                        > > -----Original Message-----
                                        > > From: Robert N. Lundy [SMTP:robert@...]
                                        > > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 5:41 PM
                                        > > To: bolger@egroups.com
                                        > > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
                                        > >
                                        > > Oooo....
                                        > >
                                        > > Every once in while (ok, pretty often) I'm amazed at some of the
                                        original
                                        > > thinking on this list. Using the concrete backerboard from Home Depot
                                        > > would
                                        > > give some heft and glass/epoxy should stick. And you could leave out
                                        the
                                        > > lead as the concrete might have enough negative bouancy to sink the
                                        whole
                                        > > thing. And this is a product that's designed to withstand water in the
                                        > > first place.
                                        > >
                                        > > Neat idea. Who wants to try it?
                                        > >
                                        > > Robert & Amy Lundy
                                        > > St. Petersburg, fla.
                                        > > robert@...
                                        > > amy@...
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > > -----Original Message-----
                                        > > > From: Peter Vanderwaart [mailto:pvanderw@...]
                                        > > > Sent: February 01, 2000 2:48 PM
                                        > > > To: bolger@...
                                        > > > Subject: [bolger] Re: glass boards in wooden boats
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > My Stuart-built Mariner had a FG centerboard. No problems.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Given a satisfactory way to build one, an FG board should work well.
                                        It
                                        > > > would be heavy enought to do without lead inserts - a great
                                        convenience
                                        > > > in the building. If you don't have a wooden core, I see no reason to
                                        > > > use epoxy instead of polyester.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > The problem with using wood or, more especially, foam as a core is
                                        that
                                        > > > the board may turn out to have positive buoyancy.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > There was an article in the Catboat Bulletin some years ago by a man
                                        > > > who made a new centerboard for his Marshall catboat using an aluminum
                                        > > > core (which was quite flexible), covered by FG. I wonder if there is
                                        > > > some other possibility in the stacks at Home Depot. Perhaps some sort
                                        > > > waterproof panel material used behind tile walls in bathrooms or under
                                        > > > showers could be used as a core material.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Peter
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        > > > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0%
                                        > > > Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!
                                        > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/975/5/_/3457/_/949434489/
                                        > > >
                                        > > > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
                                        > > > -- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/bolger/?m=1
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        > > Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa! Rates as low as 2.9%
                                        > > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points,
                                        > > no hidden fees, and much more! Get NextCard today and get the
                                        > > credit youdeserve! Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at:
                                        > > http://click.egroups.com/1/929/5/_/3457/_/949444841/
                                        > >
                                        > > eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/bolger/
                                        > > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0%
                                        > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!
                                        > http://click.egroups.com/1/933/5/_/3457/_/949503355/
                                        >
                                        > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
                                        > -- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/bolger/?m=1
                                        >
                                        >
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