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Why no pontoons?

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  • danbollinger
    As Common Sense Boats go, the pontoon is one of the more practical. How come Bolger hasn t designed any?
    Message 1 of 23 , Jul 1, 2002
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      As "Common Sense Boats" go, the pontoon is one of the more practical. How come Bolger hasn't designed any?
    • Jim Pope
      For pontoon read twin hulled . For twin hulled read catamaran . He has done those. I have one. St. Jan is 15ft long and has a beam of 8ft. He has done
      Message 2 of 23 , Jul 1, 2002
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        For 'pontoon' read 'twin hulled'. For 'twin hulled' read 'catamaran'. He has done those. I have one. St. Jan is
        15ft long and has a beam of 8ft. He has done others.
        Jim

        danbollinger wrote:

        > As "Common Sense Boats" go, the pontoon is one of the more practical. How come Bolger hasn't designed any?
        >
        > Bolger rules!!!
        > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
        > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
        > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
        > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
        > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Richard Spelling
        Maybe they are to ugly for even Bolger to design! (JUST KIDDING!) ... From: Jim Pope To: Sent: Monday, July 01,
        Message 3 of 23 , Jul 1, 2002
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          Maybe they are to ugly for even Bolger to design!
          (JUST KIDDING!)
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Jim Pope" <jpope@...>
          To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 9:15 AM
          Subject: Re: [bolger] Why no pontoons?


          > For 'pontoon' read 'twin hulled'. For 'twin hulled' read 'catamaran'. He
          has done those. I have one. St. Jan is
          > 15ft long and has a beam of 8ft. He has done others.
          > Jim
          >
          > danbollinger wrote:
          >
          > > As "Common Sense Boats" go, the pontoon is one of the more practical.
          How come Bolger hasn't designed any?
          > >
          > > Bolger rules!!!
          > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
          > > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
          > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
          > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
          01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
          > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
          > Bolger rules!!!
          > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
          > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
          > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
          > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
          01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
          > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
        • pvanderwaart
          ... practical. How come Bolger hasn t designed any? You might check out the Bantam 16/20. She s a trimaran, and would be very much better than a typical
          Message 4 of 23 , Jul 1, 2002
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            > As "Common Sense Boats" go, the pontoon is one of the more
            practical. How come Bolger hasn't designed any?

            You might check out the Bantam 16/20. She's a trimaran, and would be
            very much better than a typical pontoon boat under power, but has
            pontoonboat-like deck space.

            There are pictures in the files of the Bolger2 group.

            Peter
          • jmbell1
            I had forgotten about this one... What a cool boat! I m not sure why you d want the bow to fold though. A reduction of 4 from the trailering length doesn t
            Message 5 of 23 , Jul 1, 2002
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              I had forgotten about this one... What a cool boat! I'm not sure why
              you'd want the bow to fold though. A reduction of 4' from the
              trailering length doesn't seem to warrant the structrual trade-offs.

              I'd think seriously about adding 2-4' more length to the middle for
              some added deck space.

              JB


              --- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderw@o...> wrote:
              > You might check out the Bantam 16/20. She's a trimaran, and would
              be
              > very much better than a typical pontoon boat under power, but has
              > pontoonboat-like deck space.
            • pvanderwaart
              ... I agree. The original was for a Dutch couple. I think I remember that they had a length limit based on either storage or trailering.
              Message 6 of 23 , Jul 1, 2002
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                > A reduction of 4' from the
                > trailering length doesn't seem to warrant the structrual trade-offs.

                I agree. The original was for a Dutch couple. I think I remember that
                they had a length limit based on either storage or trailering.
              • wmrpage@aol.com
                In a message dated 7/1/02 9:55:09 AM Central Daylight Time, ... You may have hit the mark. I ordered plans for Hawkeye from Bolger last year, thinking that I
                Message 7 of 23 , Jul 1, 2002
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                  In a message dated 7/1/02 9:55:09 AM Central Daylight Time,
                  richard@... writes:


                  > Maybe they are to ugly for even Bolger to design!
                  > (JUST KIDDING!)
                  >

                  You may have hit the mark. I ordered plans for "Hawkeye" from Bolger last
                  year, thinking that I could contrive a center-console deck-boat out of it
                  that would perform the functions of a poontoon boat, desired by my mother,
                  without the exciting my father's violent anti-pontoon attitude.

                  I mentioned this in my order to Bolger and received a nice handwritten letter
                  back from him which emphatically endorsed my father's anti-pontoon aesthetic.
                  (Bolger did give qualified approval the notion of building "Hawkeye" as a
                  deck-boat, with the proviso that seating be placed on the centerline.) (Mind
                  you, I don't think that "Hawkeye" deserves many more points on aesthetics
                  than a pontoon boat.)

                  Apart from aesthetic issues, I can't imagine that there is much of an
                  intellectual challenge in designing a pontoon floats. I believe Glen-L has
                  plans for plywood pontoon floats, useful for someone who wished to have
                  skin-thickness, plywood lay-out and scantlings prepared for them. As far as
                  shape and dimensions are concerned, I think it would take a great deal of
                  imagination to come up with a shape that wouldn't work.

                  Ciao for Niao,
                  Bill in MN



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Richard Spelling
                  I d be interested in hearing what was in that letter... ... From: To: Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 9:33 PM Subject:
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jul 1, 2002
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                    I'd be interested in hearing what was in that letter...

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: <wmrpage@...>
                    To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 9:33 PM
                    Subject: Re: [bolger] Why no pontoons?


                    | In a message dated 7/1/02 9:55:09 AM Central Daylight Time,
                    | richard@... writes:
                    |
                    |
                    | > Maybe they are to ugly for even Bolger to design!
                    | > (JUST KIDDING!)
                    | >
                    |
                    | You may have hit the mark. I ordered plans for "Hawkeye" from Bolger last
                    | year, thinking that I could contrive a center-console deck-boat out of it
                    | that would perform the functions of a poontoon boat, desired by my mother,
                    | without the exciting my father's violent anti-pontoon attitude.
                    |
                    | I mentioned this in my order to Bolger and received a nice handwritten
                    letter
                    | back from him which emphatically endorsed my father's anti-pontoon
                    aesthetic.
                    | (Bolger did give qualified approval the notion of building "Hawkeye" as a
                    | deck-boat, with the proviso that seating be placed on the centerline.)
                    (Mind
                    | you, I don't think that "Hawkeye" deserves many more points on aesthetics
                    | than a pontoon boat.)
                    |
                    | Apart from aesthetic issues, I can't imagine that there is much of an
                    | intellectual challenge in designing a pontoon floats. I believe Glen-L has
                    | plans for plywood pontoon floats, useful for someone who wished to have
                    | skin-thickness, plywood lay-out and scantlings prepared for them. As far
                    as
                    | shape and dimensions are concerned, I think it would take a great deal of
                    | imagination to come up with a shape that wouldn't work.
                    |
                    | Ciao for Niao,
                    | Bill in MN
                    |
                    |
                    |
                    | [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    |
                    |
                    | Bolger rules!!!
                    | - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                    | - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                    | - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts and <snip> away
                    | - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
                    01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                    | - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    | - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    |
                    | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    |
                    |
                    |
                  • Mark Albanese
                    Could be building shed or storage limitations. Mark ... I m not sure why
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jul 1, 2002
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                      Could be building shed or storage limitations.
                      Mark

                      jmbell1 wrote:
                      >
                      I'm not sure why
                      > you'd want the bow to fold though. c
                    • danbollinger
                      ... Hey, Let s build three hulls instead of two and make it just as ugly! ;)
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jul 2, 2002
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                        > You might check out the Bantam 16/20.
                        > Peter

                        Hey, Let's build three hulls instead of two and make it just as ugly!

                        ;)
                      • pvanderwaart
                        ... ugly! Granted the Bantam is utilitarian in appearance (at least without its glass house), it is hydrodynamically a pretty reasonable craft.
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jul 2, 2002
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                          > Hey, Let's build three hulls instead of two and make it just as
                          ugly!

                          Granted the Bantam is "utilitarian" in appearance (at least without
                          its glass house), it is hydrodynamically a pretty reasonable craft.
                        • proaconstrictor
                          There are some nice pontton boats, and I can t think of a reasonable reason against them. they can be designed as extreme low resistence boats. See my
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jul 2, 2002
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                            There are some nice pontton boats, and I can't think of a reasonable
                            reason against them. they can be designed as extreme low resistence
                            boats. See my BassAckwards over at Duckworth, which is smaller than
                            what you sound to be after, and have a look at Bolger Saint
                            something, which is very simmilar, though mine was designed first.
                            Also his is a sharpies type, so would plane a lower energy input than
                            mine, which was designed as displacement only.

                            I wish I had copied his motor mount, since mine turned out to be too
                            high.
                          • echo172@comcast.net
                            Anyone know if Bantam has been built? It can be found in Bolger cartoons, FYI [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            Message 13 of 23 , Oct 29, 2006
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                              Anyone know if Bantam has been built?

                              It can be found in Bolger cartoons, FYI



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Kristine Bennett
                              I ve seen photos of two of them and one was built and then pushed to 31 or 32 feet as I recall. The builder didn t like the small aft deck. I think you will
                              Message 14 of 23 , Oct 29, 2006
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                                I've seen photos of two of them and one was built and
                                then pushed to 31 or 32 feet as I recall. The builder
                                didn't like the small aft deck. I think you will find
                                that one on Duckworks.

                                I think it's a great little boat.

                                Blessings Krissie

                                --- echo172@... wrote:

                                > Anyone know if Bantam has been built?
                                >
                                > It can be found in Bolger cartoons, FYI
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                > removed]
                                >
                                >




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                              • Bob Slimak
                                There are at least 4 Bantams done. The first one was built to the original plans in Nantucket and was written up in M.A.I.B., with a cover photo, a few back.
                                Message 15 of 23 , Oct 30, 2006
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                                  There are at least 4 Bantams done. The first one was built to the original plans in Nantucket and was written up in M.A.I.B., with a cover photo, a few back. He has since made considerable changes, including the double bottom update. The second one finished was the one Kristine mentions as having be stretched to 31 feet. That one is in Indian River Florida. He first built it the original size, but did not build the folding cabin, and built the cabin top in one layer of 3/8" ply instead of the foam ply laminate. He latter stretched it, but did not build the updated double bottom as he runs only in protected waters. The third one was built, also modified from the plans, and is somewhere in the Pacific Northwest. Bellingham seems to ring a bell in my memory :) I was last in contact with him Last fall when he had launched it without the cabin, anxious to try it out. I assume he finished the cabin during winter, spring?
                                  The fourth one is mine, in Duluth, MN. It is the updated double bottom version, stretched to 22'. It does have the folding cabin, but I did not make the bow detachable as I never plan to be storing it in a garage. I have not been on the Bolger site since last Dec. when I went to Panama for the winter. When I got back I went right to work on the boat, launched in July and have been too busy boating and making some changes to report on it. I just folded the cabin this afternoon for the winter, which is coming tomorrow, according to the forecast. Anyway, now that boating here is done for the year I will try to figure out how to post some photos next week.
                                  Bob



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                                • Kristine Bennett
                                  OK here is a question the group, how many diffrent power catamarans and trimarans had PCB designed that are under 30 feet? I know of the Trashcat, the Fishcat
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Oct 30, 2006
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                                    OK here is a question the group, how many diffrent
                                    power catamarans and trimarans had PCB designed that
                                    are under 30 feet?

                                    I know of the Trashcat, the Fishcat and the Bantam.
                                    Now many others are there?

                                    Blessings to All
                                    Kristine



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                                  • proaconstrictor
                                    ... I didn t know about the Bantam or Trashcat. There is the trimaran houseboat, and the Saint somethingorother small cat with the outboard. ...
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Oct 30, 2006
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                                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
                                      >

                                      I didn't know about the Bantam or Trashcat. There is the trimaran
                                      houseboat, and the Saint somethingorother small cat with the outboard.

                                      > OK here is a question the group, how many diffrent
                                      > power catamarans and trimarans had PCB designed that
                                      > are under 30 feet?
                                      >
                                      > I know of the Trashcat, the Fishcat and the Bantam.
                                      > Now many others are there?
                                      >
                                      > Blessings to All
                                      > Kristine
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
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                                      > Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited
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                                    • Bruce Hallman
                                      ... Also, Singlehander Catamaran aka A Fast and Light Singlehander , SBJ#27(Cartoon 3) and BWAOM Chapter 52-pg269. Also, the queen of them all, Double Eagle,
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Oct 31, 2006
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                                        > > OK here is a question the group, how many diffrent
                                        > > power catamarans and trimarans had PCB designed that
                                        > > are under 30 feet?

                                        Also, Singlehander Catamaran aka "A Fast and Light Singlehander",
                                        SBJ#27(Cartoon 3) and BWAOM Chapter 52-pg269.

                                        Also, the queen of them all, Double Eagle, longer at 42 ft.
                                      • graeme19121984
                                        ... 4 or 5. How to count? Designed for straight power, or auxiliary power? Those that reasonably could have auxiliary power, though not shown as such? The
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Nov 1, 2006
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                                          > > > OK here is a question the group, how many diffrent
                                          > > > power catamarans and trimarans had PCB designed that
                                          > > > are under 30 feet?


                                          4 or 5. How to count? Designed for straight power, or auxiliary
                                          power? Those that reasonably could have auxiliary power, though not
                                          shown as such?

                                          The designs index lists about 9 to 10, or so, depending how you
                                          count them. A few are studies/earlier plans that became somewhat
                                          different plans.

                                          There's Bolger indications there are more than have been published,
                                          or are in the index, eg the Bolger vee-bottom, inboard, stay
                                          sail "Cruising Cat(-amaran)" in Derek Harvey's "Multihulls for
                                          Cruising and Racing". It had moderate beam as reportedly Bolger
                                          reasoned that gave a less jagged stability curve and compact
                                          berthing.

                                          There used to be earlier this year, current photos of a Bolger 24'
                                          aquaculture power catamaran built at the Old Wharf Dory yard that
                                          was still a goer: http://www.oldwharf.com/history.html It had
                                          moderate twin ob power, vee-bottoms deeper at the bow and flattening
                                          astern, kinda beamy hulls with lowish freeboard, sheltered helm, and
                                          good speed on the plane I would think. I think there's a pic in one
                                          of the bolgergroups.

                                          Seems to be only 5 straight power multis: Bantam, Fishcat, Trashcat;
                                          and the two Power Cats, #480, and #598, the first of which the Old
                                          Wharf Dory yard example is likely to be, and the second may be a PCB
                                          supplied version of the CSD Fishcat #469... making it 4 in all that
                                          are known.

                                          Graeme
                                        • proaconstrictor
                                          Here is the little power cat St Jan: http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/01/articles/champlain/index.htm I m partial to this design since I quite aside made a
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Nov 2, 2006
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                                            Here is the little power cat St Jan:

                                            http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/01/articles/champlain/index.htm

                                            I'm partial to this design since I quite aside made a similar boat to
                                            my own design, as a prototype for a charter cat, since kids have
                                            enjoyed it. Bolger's was originally designed as a Yulloh testing
                                            platform, if I remember correctly, so the hull shape may not be ideal
                                            for power. Good concept though.
                                          • Kristine Bennett
                                            Yes I had seen that one but was not sure if it was PCB&Fs design or an idea someone had and used ideas of PCB. But it s along the idea I have for a powercat.
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Nov 2, 2006
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                                              Yes I had seen that one but was not sure if it was
                                              PCB&Fs design or an idea someone had and used ideas
                                              of PCB. But it's along the idea I have for a powercat.


                                              I should send Phil a letter and see what he has to
                                              say.

                                              Blessings All Kristine

                                              --- proaconstrictor <proaconstrictor@...> wrote:

                                              > Here is the little power cat St Jan:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/01/articles/champlain/index.htm
                                              >

                                              >




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                                            • proaconstrictor
                                              ... Good idea, I recall the article in MAIB, and it was a Phil project but for Yulloh testing therefore displacement hull stuff. After that interest passed,
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Nov 2, 2006
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                                                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Yes I had seen that one but was not sure if it was
                                                > PCB&Fs design or an idea someone had and used ideas
                                                > of PCB. But it's along the idea I have for a powercat.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > I should send Phil a letter and see what he has to
                                                > say.
                                                >
                                                > Blessings All Kristine
                                                >
                                                >

                                                Good idea, I recall the article in MAIB, and it was a Phil project but
                                                for Yulloh testing therefore displacement hull stuff. After that
                                                interest passed, it was used for the kind of thing in the picture, and
                                                then it was passed on, and then it rotted out.
                                              • proaconstrictor
                                                Kristine, you have probably already seen this. But it comes as close to being economical, fast to build, resaleable, and seriously useful as one is likely to
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Dec 6, 2006
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                                                  Kristine,

                                                  you have probably already seen this. But it comes as close to being
                                                  economical, fast to build, resaleable, and seriously useful as one is
                                                  likely to find, short of a personal design. One issue that I would ask
                                                  about first is that amas are not necesarily good models for powercat
                                                  hulls. The deal is for a few thou you buy pre-molded epoxy
                                                  glass "pans" that are just glued to whatever square box superstructure
                                                  you want to use. Or build the kit, or buy the boat.

                                                  http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?
                                                  &units=Feet&checked_boats=1547873&lang=en&slim=broker&&hosturl=multimari
                                                  ne&&ywo=multimarine&
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