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Re: Environmentally OK Plywood? (fwd)

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  • proaconstrictor
    ... kick ... Thanks, I m not trying to be boring, but I am serious. NIMBY has a bad rap, but honestly its often the best I can do. ... bleeding heart, Ouch.
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 3, 2002
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      > >
      > > Exactly Mark, and the way to win a zero sum game like that is to
      kick
      > > as big a dent in Indonesia as possible.
      >
      > Dear Thomas,
      >
      > Though I think you 're just being deliberately provacative,

      Thanks, I'm not trying to be boring, but I am serious. NIMBY has a
      bad rap, but honestly its often the best I can do.

      > from this left coast, winged out, muddle headed, vegetarian
      bleeding heart, "Ouch."
      > Whaddayagonnado when there's no more Indonesia? Or when the people
      there get so tired of
      > you're own ruthless attitude they start throwing bombs at you ?

      Well the slick answer is that economic affairs don't have to be loose
      loose, but cutting down noble trees does. We can pay them for them
      for instance, but I'd rather they came out of someone else's
      watershed than mine, or yours. Having seen the boatloads of big
      trees steaming past Astoria on their way West I feel for you.
      Somewhere in Japan there is a guy planing a beautiful piece of Port
      Orford Cedar.

      > > Presumably they are only using green power to ramp up their
      internet
      > > search.
      >
      > This is the essence of absolutist thinking. "If you can't be
      perfect, why do anything?"

      The essence of my thinking is if you can't be consistent, don't bore
      me with the news releases. I smell a wiff of hypocracy in the idea
      that they can do the right thing by finding the right way to expand
      their consumerism. Is it more appealing to paddle Alaska than where
      they live now. If one wants to be an environmentalist, do what I did
      on my aching legs this afternoon: I took one of my daughters for a
      shoulder ride in the neighbourhood I picked her some random flowers.
      Somehow I feel more OK about that, environmentaly, than extreme
      paddling in Alaska, even aboard certified plywood kayaks.


      > >
      > > I am not agaisnt people thinking about their impact.
      >
      > Then why argue so strongly against it?

      I argue against the thought that may have gone into it (accepting it
      is like 5th hand by now), more thought seems required to me. But I
      don't say that from the high hat, it is possible that people in this
      group know more about wood than just what of it is certified. It is
      and isn't that precious. Whenever they nock down a noble tree around
      here, it seems to be chipped, and carted off for mulch. It is and
      isn't that precious.
    • Mark Albanese
      ... For extended hilarity on this theme, read David Brook s Bobos in Paradise. ... Julie Shoemaker isn t planning that. Read it again. ... Her letter doesn t
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 3, 2002
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        proaconstrictor wrote:
        >
        > >
        > The essence of my thinking is if you can't be consistent, don't bore
        > me with the news releases. I smell a wiff of hypocracy in the idea
        > that they can do the right thing by finding the right way to expand
        > their consumerism.

        For extended hilarity on this theme, read David Brook's 'Bobos in Paradise.'

        >Is it more appealing to paddle Alaska than where
        > they live now.

        Julie Shoemaker isn't planning that. Read it again.
        >
        > Dear Mr. Kohnen,
        >
        > I found your email address on your plywood boat-links
        > page on the internet. I am interested in what
        > you know about the origin of different marine
        > plywoods. I am leading a trip this summer for the
        > Chewonki Foundation (an environmental organization)
        > where we build plywood kayaks with 8 participants and
        > then spend the rest of the summer kayaking the boats
        > up the Maine coast. We have built the boats out of
        > Luaun and had trouble with checking and have switched
        > to Meranti. My concern with both of these woods is
        > that their removal has heavy environmental impacts. I
        > am attempting to find a wood that is more
        > "environmentally friendly" and I am looking into the
        > Okoume and the Fir plywoods as well as other options.
        > If you have any advice on the matter or can direct me
        > to someone who would, it would be extremely helpful.
        >
        > Thank you for your time.
        >
        > Sincerely,
        > Julie Shoemaker

        Her letter doesn't strike me as hypocrisy; just a consistent attempt to do things in a
        better way than they've done before. It's only rooted in the belief that what you do
        matters.

        These trips were written up in WB #104. Call it a trivial luxury for children of the
        prosperous; for most of the world, so is eating 3 meals a day.


        >If one wants to be an environmentalist, do what I did
        > on my aching legs this afternoon: I took one of my daughters for a
        > shoulder ride in the neighbourhood I picked her some random flowers.
        > Somehow I feel more OK about that, environmentaly, than extreme
        > paddling in Alaska, even aboard certified plywood kayaks.

        Agreed!

        Mark
      • Nickerson, Bruce
        BRAVO MARK!!!!!!! ... From: Mark Albanese [mailto:marka@highstream.net] Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 7:43 PM To: bolger@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [bolger]
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 4, 2002
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          BRAVO MARK!!!!!!!


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Mark Albanese [mailto:marka@...]
          Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 7:43 PM
          To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Environmentally OK Plywood? (fwd)




          proaconstrictor wrote:
          >
          > Exactly Mark, and the way to win a zero sum game like that is to kick
          > as big a dent in Indonesia as possible.

          Dear Thomas,

          Though I think you 're just being deliberately provacative,
          from this left coast, winged out, muddle headed, vegetarian bleeding heart,
          "Ouch."
          Whaddayagonnado when there's no more Indonesia? Or when the people there get
          so tired of
          you're own ruthless attitude they start throwing bombs at you ?

          > If I really worried about it, I wouldn't build boats. Paddling
          > Alaska (or whatever this thread started with) is just a tourism
          > thing, no matter whose plywood you use. "Think globaly act localy"
          > now reads "think globaly, then visit". Did anyone fly to reach this
          > Jamboree? Did they use only environmentaly approved aviation fuel.
          > Presumably they are only using green power to ramp up their internet
          > search.

          This is the essence of absolutist thinking. "If you can't be perfect, why do
          anything?"
          That's the source of much neurotic inaction in both public and our private
          lives, of
          fiddling while Rome burns.

          I'll tell you the truth: I'm not so attached to the squalid, bitterly cruel
          overall
          existence on this planet as all of that. I do believe, however, that it's
          not smart or
          responsible to use up
          more than we have to or, worse, perfidiously destroy what we do not
          understand
          >
          > I am not agaisnt people thinking about their impact.

          Then why argue so strongly against it?

          >But, when you
          > are really commited to something, you don't ask the cost. At the
          > core of what we do, there is something we will all squash a gnat
          > for. Whether it is our children, or our life's work. If that isn't
          > how we feel about woodworking, then perhaps we are just tourists in
          > that sphere too, and should consider the impact of our every footstep.

          "It's not what you do but how you do it."
          "The way you do anything is the way you do everything."

          With apologies to GHC,
          Mark


          >
          > --- In bolger@y..., Mark Albanese <marka@h...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > proaconstrictor wrote:
          > > >
          > > > I don't personaly care where it comes from, the further away the
          > > > better.
          > >
          > > The problem is, TD, it all comes from this planet!
          > >
          > > Mark
          >
          >
          > Bolger rules!!!
          > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
          > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
          > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
          > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
          01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
          > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>


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          Bolger rules!!!
          - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
          - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
          - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
          - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
          01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
          - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • proaconstrictor
          ... for children of the ... Now who is guilty of absolutism... Mark, you know if I continue to rise to this bait I will just end up getting sent off to the
          Message 4 of 13 , Jun 4, 2002
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            > These trips were written up in WB #104. Call it a trivial luxury
            for children of the
            > prosperous; for most of the world, so is eating 3 meals a day.


            Now who is guilty of absolutism...

            Mark, you know if I continue to rise to this bait I will just end up
            getting sent off to the Bolger time-out-chair by all those people who
            just tune in to talk about new uses for Sikaflex...

            I am going to sit quietly for a moment until a really interesting
            thread about building Wyo. with offcuts of waterproof drywall pops up.

            By the way, I got my copy of the 1983 "Bolger Boats" lots of good
            stuff including offsets for Dovekie; a whole slew of article on boats
            I have actualy built, like Elegant Punt; boats I have plans for like
            Black Skimmer (anyone want to buy these?). I learned about these
            boats from others than Bolger, so it is intersting to run accross his
            comments on them also.

            Threw some glue at Fat Eeek the other day. When it stops raining,
            maybe I will get her decked.
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