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Panga (como en BC Sur)

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  • Wade Leftwich
    Pangas are those 20-foot outboard skiffs you see in Baja California, casting for roosterfish by the rocks or trolling for marlin out in the bluewater. The most
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 1, 2002
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      Pangas are those 20-foot outboard skiffs you see in Baja California, casting
      for roosterfish by the rocks or trolling for marlin out in the bluewater. The
      most panga-like Bolger design I know of is the 18-foot Clam Skiff, but pangas
      have a shallow vee and a higher bow.

      Is there another Bolger boat that is a bit more along those lines, or someone
      else's design that would be suitable for homebuilding by a gringo?

      I live near Lake Ontario, and am also thinking about trailering down to the
      Jersey Shore.

      Wade Leftwich
      Ithaca, NY
    • thomas dalzell
      As you dougtless know, Bolger considers the Clam Skiff etc... to be a V hull. That is obviously a bit of an exageration, but about 10 years ago I wrote him to
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 1, 2002
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        As you dougtless know, Bolger considers the Clam Skiff
        etc... to be a V hull. That is obviously a bit of an
        exageration, but about 10 years ago I wrote him to see
        what he thought of the Clam Skiff as a Bonefisher, you
        know a flats skiff. The question was sort of "do you
        think I could get away with using the CS, or wouldn't
        I be better off getting you to design for me a a real
        Bonefishing skiff". He was all for my just adding the
        decks, consoles, rod carrying gear in a Clam skiff.

        The point is that to a certain extent a V hull is a V
        hull, to a certain extent it is just an arrangement of
        bouyancy. As regards that, you can taylor the degree
        of V in a CS by just adding an extra layer down the
        middle, if you feel that is where the Bouy, should be.
        As regards the lack of V-ness, I think he regards
        that as an advantage, in terms of construction, wear,
        traillering, weight, bite in a turn, and so forth.


        --- Wade Leftwich <wade@...> wrote:

        <HR>
        <html><body>


        <tt>
        Pangas are those 20-foot outboard skiffs you see in
        Baja California, casting <BR>
        for roosterfish by the rocks or trolling for marlin
        out in the bluewater. The <BR>
        most panga-like Bolger design I know of is the 18-foot
        Clam Skiff, but pangas <BR>
        have a shallow vee and a higher bow.<BR>
        <BR>

        ______________________________________________________________________
        Find, Connect, Date! http://personals.yahoo.ca
      • Mark Albanese
        This seems suitably Panga-like. http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jim/brucesboat/index.htm Mark
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 1, 2002
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          This seems suitably Panga-like.
          http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jim/brucesboat/index.htm

          Mark

          Wade Leftwich wrote:
          >
          > Pangas are those 20-foot outboard skiffs you see in Baja
          > California, casting
          > for roosterfish by the rocks or trolling for marlin out in
          > the bluewater. The
          > most panga-like Bolger design I know of is the 18-foot
          > Clam Skiff, but pangas
          > have a shallow vee and a higher bow.
          >
          > Is there another Bolger boat that is a bit more along
          > those lines, or someone
          > else's design that would be suitable for homebuilding by a
          > gringo?
          >
          > I live near Lake Ontario, and am also thinking about
          > trailering down to the
          > Jersey Shore.
          >
          > Wade Leftwich
          > Ithaca, NY
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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          >
          >
          >
          > Bolger rules!!!
          > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
          > dead horses
          > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and
          > punctuate
          > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip
          > all you like
          > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
          > Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
          > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
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          > of Service.
        • Wade Leftwich
          Brucesboat does look quite panga-like, except that doesn t have the high bow that seems to be favored in the American tropics, both Atlantic and Pacific. Very
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 2, 2002
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            Brucesboat does look quite panga-like, except that doesn't have the high bow
            that seems to be favored in the American tropics, both Atlantic and Pacific.

            Very nice looking, and a whole lot lighter than the Clam Skiff. (I would be
            keeping the boat on the beach or on a trailer anyway, and do not anticipate
            dredging clams or hauling lobsterpots.)

            For my "intended" use, which would include some offshore runs, it looks a bit
            low in the water; a Tolman Skiff, or a Tracy O'Brien Predator, or one of
            those nice boats at www.bateau.com might be better.

            But for the use the boat is actually likely to get -- putting around on
            Cayuga Lake -- Brucesboat looks terrific.

            Thanks for the tip.

            Wade Leftwich
            Ithaca, NY


            On Tuesday 02 April 2002 04:15, you wrote:
            >    Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 19:23:15 -0800
            >    From: Mark Albanese <marka@...>
            > Subject: Re: Panga (como en BC Sur)
            >
            > This seems suitably Panga-like.
            > http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/plans/jim/brucesboat/index.htm
            >
            > Mark
            >
            > Wade Leftwich wrote:
            > > 
            > > Pangas are those 20-foot outboard skiffs you see in Baja
            > > California, casting
            > > for roosterfish by the rocks or trolling for marlin out in
            > > the bluewater. The
            > > most panga-like Bolger design I know of is the 18-foot
            > > Clam Skiff, but pangas
            > > have a shallow vee and a higher bow.
            > > 
            > > Is there another Bolger boat that is a bit more along
            > > those lines, or someone
            > > else's design that would be suitable for homebuilding by a
            > > gringo?
            > > 
            > > I live near Lake Ontario, and am also thinking about
            > > trailering down to the
            > > Jersey Shore.
            > > 
            > > Wade Leftwich
            > > Ithaca, NY
          • David Ryan
            Viva la Panga! Not only do they use them in B.C, but also throughout the rest of Mexico. Friends of mine in Puerto Angel go out as far at 30 miles for tibaron
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 2, 2002
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              Viva la Panga! Not only do they use them in B.C, but also throughout
              the rest of Mexico. Friends of mine in Puerto Angel go out as far at
              30 miles for tibaron (shark). They asked me if I'd like to join them
              and I said I wasn't feeling well ;-)

              A Bolger version? How about the Diablo Grande?

              YIBB,

              David



              >Pangas are those 20-foot outboard skiffs you see in Baja California, casting
              >for roosterfish by the rocks or trolling for marlin out in the bluewater. The
              >most panga-like Bolger design I know of is the 18-foot Clam Skiff, but pangas
              >have a shallow vee and a higher bow.
              >
              >Is there another Bolger boat that is a bit more along those lines, or someone
              >else's design that would be suitable for homebuilding by a gringo?
              >
              >I live near Lake Ontario, and am also thinking about trailering down to the
              >Jersey Shore.
              >
              >Wade Leftwich
              >Ithaca, NY
              >
              >
              >Bolger rules!!!
              >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
              >- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
              >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
              >- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
              >MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
              >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


              C.E.P.
              415 W.46th Street
              New York, New York 10036
              http://www.crumblingempire.com
              (212) 247-0296
            • wadeleftwich
              ... One day some years ago I was fishing out of Pensacola in a 28-foot sportfisherman, and one of the guys boated a small mako that wasn t quite dead yet. We
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 2, 2002
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                --- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
                > Viva la Panga! Not only do they use them in B.C, but also throughout
                > the rest of Mexico. Friends of mine in Puerto Angel go out as far at
                > 30 miles for tibaron (shark). They asked me if I'd like to join them
                > and I said I wasn't feeling well ;-)
                >

                One day some years ago I was fishing out of Pensacola in a 28-foot sportfisherman, and one of the guys boated a small mako that wasn't quite dead yet. We all sat on the bridge while the shark ate a couple of rods, and the gaff, and a good chunk of the fighting chair. If we had been in a skiff we would have had to jump in the water and let the shark have the boat.

                Wade Leftwich
                Ithaca, NY
              • Hal Lynch
                My garage finally warmed up enough to make sawdust. I am making the leeboard for my Teal by gluing two 1/4 pieces of plywood together. What do you folks do to
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 2, 2002
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                  My garage finally warmed up enough to make sawdust.

                  I am making the leeboard for my Teal by gluing two 1/4 pieces
                  of plywood together. What do you folks do to insure a good
                  close fit of the two halves? Do you use weight (how much?),
                  clamps, or both?

                  hal
                • rlspell2000
                  Cut them oversized, trim after glued together. For 1/4 sqeeze them between a couple pieces of MDF or something. Put wax paper down so any epoxy that sqeezes
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 2, 2002
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                    Cut them oversized, trim after glued together. For 1/4" sqeeze them
                    between a couple pieces of MDF or something. Put wax paper down so
                    any epoxy that sqeezes out doesn't glue your leeboard to the other
                    boards.

                    Use two or three cinder blocks for weight, or equivelent.


                    --- In bolger@y..., Hal Lynch <hal@c...> wrote:
                    > My garage finally warmed up enough to make sawdust.
                    >
                    > I am making the leeboard for my Teal by gluing two 1/4 pieces
                    > of plywood together. What do you folks do to insure a good
                    > close fit of the two halves? Do you use weight (how much?),
                    > clamps, or both?
                    >
                    > hal
                  • GarthAB
                    What do you folks do to insure a good ... Hal -- Richard has a good idea about cutting oversized and trimming after glue-up. Also to consider -- maybe make
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 2, 2002
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                      What do you folks do to insure a good
                      > close fit of the two halves? Do you use weight (how much?),
                      > clamps, or both?
                      >
                      > hal


                      Hal --

                      Richard has a good idea about cutting oversized and trimming after
                      glue-up.

                      Also to consider -- maybe make this board 3/4" thick. I don't know
                      about the forces a Teal generates, but the 1/2" bilgeboard prescribed
                      by Bolger/Payson for the Windsprint failed me in a bit of a swell.
                      The boat slid sideways down a wave face, and I heard a CRACK. The
                      board snapped off right across the line where it exited the bottom of
                      the case.

                      For glue-up -- try slathering the faces with glue, then tapping a few
                      small nails through the pieces to keep them from sliding around, and
                      then weighting liberally with cinder blocks, big rocks, etc. Put wax
                      paper under the whole assembly so it doesn't glue to the floor.

                      The sliding around thing is weird -- you'd think gravity would be
                      more or less equal all around and your pieces would stay put, but
                      glued up wood finds a downhill where you'd never dream there is one,
                      and away it goes.

                      All best,
                      Garth
                    • rlspell2000
                      Make sure the surface grain of the ply is running longways too. A light layer of glass will help also, if you are sticking with 1/2 ... prescribed ... of ...
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 2, 2002
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                        Make sure the surface grain of the ply is running longways too. A
                        light layer of glass will help also, if you are sticking with 1/2"
                        --- In bolger@y..., "GarthAB" <garth@b...> wrote:
                        > What do you folks do to insure a good
                        > > close fit of the two halves? Do you use weight (how much?),
                        > > clamps, or both?
                        > >
                        > > hal
                        >
                        >
                        > Hal --
                        >
                        > Richard has a good idea about cutting oversized and trimming after
                        > glue-up.
                        >
                        > Also to consider -- maybe make this board 3/4" thick. I don't know
                        > about the forces a Teal generates, but the 1/2" bilgeboard
                        prescribed
                        > by Bolger/Payson for the Windsprint failed me in a bit of a swell.
                        > The boat slid sideways down a wave face, and I heard a CRACK. The
                        > board snapped off right across the line where it exited the bottom
                        of
                        > the case.
                        >
                        > For glue-up -- try slathering the faces with glue, then tapping a
                        few
                        > small nails through the pieces to keep them from sliding around,
                        and
                        > then weighting liberally with cinder blocks, big rocks, etc. Put
                        wax
                        > paper under the whole assembly so it doesn't glue to the floor.
                        >
                        > The sliding around thing is weird -- you'd think gravity would be
                        > more or less equal all around and your pieces would stay put, but
                        > glued up wood finds a downhill where you'd never dream there is
                        one,
                        > and away it goes.
                        >
                        > All best,
                        > Garth
                      • rnlocnil
                        see below. ... This depends on the thickness of the surface plies. For luan, with the incredibly thin faces it has, it s probably better to put the surface
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 2, 2002
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                          see below.
                          --- In bolger@y..., "rlspell2000" <richard@s...> wrote:
                          > Make sure the surface grain of the ply is running longways too. A
                          > light layer of glass will help also, if you are sticking with 1/2"

                          This depends on the thickness of the surface plies. For luan, with the
                          incredibly thin faces it has, it's probably better to put the surface
                          plies crosswise and use the strength of the much thicker center.
                          Generally, as you use more layers of plywood glued together, thickness
                          of the surface plies becomes more and more critical. If a kind of
                          plywood has optimised surface ply thickness such that strength is
                          equal in either direction, then it will be half as thick as it should
                          be if you glue two pieces together. Same goes for stiffness, tho in
                          that case optimal thickness of face ply will be less.
                          > --- In bolger@y..., "GarthAB" <garth@b...> wrote:
                          > > What do you folks do to insure a good
                          > > > close fit of the two halves? Do you use weight (how much?),
                          > > > clamps, or both?
                          > > >
                          > > > hal
                          > >
                          > >
                          If you have enough thickened epoxy and a good fit, just a little
                          weight to keep the halves in place is ok. If you are using some other
                          kind of glue you will want to sandwich it between two flat surfaces
                          and use LOTS of weight. If you have a vacuum pump, throw it in a
                          garbage bag with a length of paper towels, seal with MoreTite, thick
                          caulk, or similar, and pump the air out for up to 15lbs/in^2 clamping,
                          which is certainly more than enough for most glues. That's what I did,
                          but I didn't get it into the bag fast enough.
                          > > Hal --
                          snip
                          > >
                          > > Also to consider -- maybe make this board 3/4" thick. I don't know
                          > > about the forces a Teal generates, but the 1/2" bilgeboard
                          > prescribed
                          > > by Bolger/Payson for the Windsprint failed me in a bit of a swell.
                          Compare length of board on Windspint and Teal. Stress will go
                          approximately with square of free length of board and with square of
                          speed of boat. I suspect proper orientation of faces will be
                          sufficient, but I don't know that.
                          snip
                          > > For glue-up -- try slathering the faces with glue, then tapping a
                          > few
                          > > small nails through the pieces to keep them from sliding around,
                          snip
                          > > The sliding around thing is weird -- you'd think gravity would be
                          > > more or less equal all around and your pieces would stay put, but
                          > > glued up wood finds a downhill where you'd never dream there is
                          > one,
                          > > and away it goes.
                          > >
                          > > All best,
                          > > Garth
                          I've seen this too. Maybe try tape to avoid nail holes? Some kind of
                          double ended short tack for same purpose?
                        • rnlocnil
                          Light layer of glass may not help. I suspect that the elastic modulus of woven glass/epoxy is such that the wood does almost all the work if stressed along the
                          Message 12 of 16 , Apr 2, 2002
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                            Light layer of glass may not help. I suspect that the elastic modulus
                            of woven glass/epoxy is such that the wood does almost all the work
                            if stressed along the grain. Unidirectional glass might be different.
                            However, I haven't done any tests. As you increase the thickness of
                            woven glass, it will increase the thickness of the board and
                            eventually will work harder.
                            --- In bolger@y..., "rlspell2000" <richard@s...> wrote:
                            > Make sure the surface grain of the ply is running longways too. A
                            > light layer of glass will help also, if you are sticking with 1/2"
                            snip
                          • David Ryan
                            ... A couple of things: 1) You can make the board out of a single sheet of 1/4, 2 layers of 1/4, or a single sheet of 1/2. All will be stronger than the tines.
                            Message 13 of 16 , Apr 2, 2002
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                              >My garage finally warmed up enough to make sawdust.
                              >
                              >I am making the leeboard for my Teal by gluing two 1/4 pieces
                              >of plywood together. What do you folks do to insure a good
                              >close fit of the two halves? Do you use weight (how much?),
                              >clamps, or both?
                              >

                              A couple of things:

                              1) You can make the board out of a single sheet of 1/4, 2 layers of
                              1/4, or a single sheet of 1/2. All will be stronger than the tines. I
                              know because I've done all three and and the board rip off the tines
                              or just plain breaking the tines by driving the boat hard. (Picture
                              two full grown man hiked out on the weather rail of a Teal while
                              using a Sunfish rig in about 20+ knots of wind) If you use fir,
                              covering with epoxy and glass will make your paint job last a lot
                              longer, but isn't necessary for strength. Luan doens't seem to check
                              nearly as bad as fir. Don't know if it has a down side.

                              2) Between breaking, losing, or running over with my car, I've
                              laminated about a half dozen rudders or board and the only thing
                              that's worked for me is to use LOTS of thickened epoxy and screw the
                              two sides together. All attempts at clamping/weighting have wasted
                              my time, epoxy and patience. When I build the daggerboard for my
                              Light Scooner I ran a line of sheet rock screws all around the
                              perimeter and put a bunch in the middle for good measure.

                              3) As suggested both some others, glue first, cut second seems to be
                              a good idea. Much easier to square up to rectangular boards.

                              4) The Teal is an awesome little boat. Whatever you end up doing
                              you'll love your Teal!

                              YIBB,

                              David

                              C.E.P.
                              415 W.46th Street
                              New York, New York 10036
                              http://www.crumblingempire.com
                              (212) 247-0296
                            • thomas dalzell
                              You can vaccum bag it, which might seem like overkill with a simple part like this, but with the right yellow glue, you would only need an hour of running to
                              Message 14 of 16 , Apr 2, 2002
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                                You can vaccum bag it, which might seem like overkill
                                with a simple part like this, but with the right
                                yellow glue, you would only need an hour of running to
                                dry it, and you get the perfect bond. If you are
                                epoxying the whole thing anyway it should be fine.
                                Other than that, clamp the edges with epoxy in the
                                joint, and put a few heavy thing in the middle


                                ______________________________________________________________________
                                Find, Connect, Date! http://personals.yahoo.ca
                              • jhkohnen@boat-links.com
                                Not by Bolger, but nice fishing boats nonetheless: http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/W7260E/W7260E00.htm ... -- John
                                Message 15 of 16 , Apr 2, 2002
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                                  Not by Bolger, but nice fishing boats nonetheless:

                                  http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/W7260E/W7260E00.htm

                                  On Mon, 1 Apr 2002 19:16:17 -0500, Wade Leftwich wrote:
                                  > Pangas are those 20-foot outboard skiffs you see in Baja California, casting
                                  > for roosterfish by the rocks or trolling for marlin out in the bluewater. The
                                  > most panga-like Bolger design I know of is the 18-foot Clam Skiff, but pangas
                                  > have a shallow vee and a higher bow.
                                  >
                                  > Is there another Bolger boat that is a bit more along those lines, or someone
                                  > else's design that would be suitable for homebuilding by a gringo?
                                  >
                                  > I live near Lake Ontario, and am also thinking about trailering down to the
                                  > Jersey Shore.
                                  >
                                  > Wade Leftwich
                                  > Ithaca, NY

                                  --
                                  John <jkohnen@...>
                                  http://www.boat-links.com/
                                  One must have a heart of stone to read the death of Little Nell by
                                  Dickens without laughing. <Oscar Wilde>
                                • stephensonhw@aol.com
                                  If someone wanted a vee-bottomed alternative to Tennessee (low power requirement, long and narrow), they could have a look at the largest of these designs.
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Apr 3, 2002
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                                    If someone wanted a vee-bottomed alternative to Tennessee (low power
                                    requirement, long and narrow), they could have a look at the largest of these
                                    designs. It's eighteen inches or so shorter than Tennessee and a little
                                    narrower, but instructions are given as to how to increase the beam up to
                                    20%. No lofting necessary and complete instructions given for building either
                                    in plywood or sawn timber.

                                    Howard

                                    In a message dated 03-04-02 3:34:22 PM E. Australia Standard Time,
                                    jhkohnen@... writes:

                                    >
                                    > Not by Bolger, but nice fishing boats nonetheless:
                                    >
                                    > http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/W7260E/W7260E00.htm
                                    >
                                    >

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