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Re: Micro Keel fasteners

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  • rlspell2000
    The cutting fluid is really a coolant in this case. Use a small stream of water to cool the lead. Keep the speed down, and the water flow small, and you
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 1, 2002
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      The "cutting fluid" is really a coolant in this case. Use a small
      stream of water to cool the lead. Keep the speed down, and the water
      flow small, and you shouldn't have any problems. Use a phenmatic
      drill if you have one, otherwise be careful with electricity and
      water.

      You could probably get away with just dipping you bit in water every
      few seconds.

      The water will dry up and you won't have to clean oil off the wood.

      Drill the holes with the assembly clamped in place, through both the
      wood and the lead. ONLY way to get them to line up.

      (Course, if I was pouring a lead keel, I'd have cast the bolts into
      the lead...)

      --- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
      > Derek
      >
      > I guess my inclination would be to put the thing together, then
      drill the holes. You do not have to use a flow of cutting oil: Drill
      the wood first, then withdraw the bit and give it a mist of WD-40 or
      a dab of your favorite cutting oil (kerosene or paint thinner would
      work), then shake off any excess, and proceed to drill the lead
      slowly. You may need to repeat the application of oil once or twice
      for each hole. This all assumes that you are going to sheath the
      keel with fiberglass. I don't think the tiny amount of oil that you
      would get on the wood would be a problem.
      >
      > Chuck
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Derek Waters
      > To: bolger@y...
      > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 4:19 PM
      > Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro Keel fasteners
      >
      >
      > Chuck, David,
      >
      > Thanks for the responses. As you would expect, I found drilling
      the lead
      > 'dry' is tough; the lead heats up and grabs bits. If I drill with
      cutting
      > fluid, it seems I would have to do as follows - or have I missed
      something?
      > Is there a simpler way?
      >
      > Start with a complete dry fit , positioning the lead, then
      clamping on the
      > ply sheathing.
      > Drill through the ply (dry) thus marking the lead for fastener
      location.
      > Remove the ply, carefully marking it for exact repositioning
      afterwards.
      > Finish drilling the pilot holes into the lead (this time 'wet').
      > Remove the lead, having carefully marked for position.
      > Carefully clean off all traces of cutting fluid.
      > Butter with epoxy and reposition lead. (Epoxy clock is now
      ticking :)
      > Reassemble epoxied ply sheathing, checking alignment.
      > Pound home fasteners.
      > Repeat for other side of keel, without being able to wash lead
      quite as
      > liberally, since it will now be partially attached to the hull....
      >
      > I guess it's not that bad. How about it. Is there a simpler way?
      >
      > Cheers
      > Derek
      >
      >
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    • Jeff Blunck
      Older anti-freeze was alcohol based! Like wood grain alcohol, not very compatible with the body. I m not sure when glycerin base showed up but there was a
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 1, 2002
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        Older anti-freeze was alcohol based! Like wood grain alcohol, not very compatible with the body.

        I'm not sure when glycerin base showed up but there was a slow change over as the early glycerin based anti-freeze would not cool well and get thick in extreme cold. I would bet they where talking about the alcohol based stuff.

        Either way, it'll kill you.


        Jeff
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: David Ryan
        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 9:24 AM
        Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro Keel fasteners



        >Usual warning to keep the dogs (and kids) away from the liquid
        >antifreeze/coolant ...

        A friend of mine is doing quite a bit of reading about the Red Army
        during WWII. Apparently when the Russians would overrun a German
        supply depot it was imperative that an officer secure any antifreeze
        caches before the men could find it and drink it. Apparently aside
        from being sweet, it will give you a help of a buzz (before it kills
        you.)

        YIBB,

        David

        C.E.P.
        134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
        New York, New York 10001
        http://www.crumblingempire.com
        (212) 247-0296

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        Bolger rules!!!
        - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
        - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
        - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
        - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
        - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • dnjost
        Right, How could I forget Peter s well built Micro. The deadwood idea is best. I have encapsulated my Micros keel bottom with 2 layers or cloth tape set in
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 1, 2002
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          Right, How could I forget Peter's well built Micro. The deadwood
          idea is best. I have encapsulated my Micros keel bottom with 2
          layers or cloth tape set in epoxy and coated the whole mess with a
          layer of 60 oz cloth. May the marine critters try to eat that mess.

          david jost

          > If you use your first option,you might also want to simply go
          > with solid deadwood fore and aft thereby doing away with the nasty
          > business of attaching the plywood panels which later may begin to
          rot
          > when their bottom edges become gouged by bottom contact thus
          exposing
          > the bare edge.
          > I have the paper pattern for my keel shape(lead ballast only)
          > that I would be willing to"lend" to any other MICRO builder wishing
          to
          > go a more traditional route with the MICRO keel.
          > Keel assembly can be seen over on DUCKWORKS MAGAZINE under the
          > articles section(archives)..........
          > Continued success with FIREFLY!!!
          > Peter Lenihan
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In bolger@y..., "dnjost" <djost@m...> wrote:
          > > If I were to do this again. Trust me, the answer is no. I would
          > do
          > > one of two things.
          > >
          > > 1. cast my keel with bronze keel bolts imbedded. That would
          hold
          > > the sucker in place while I could take all the time I wanted to
          get
          > > each side to be glued and nailed in place.
          > >
        • watsongs
          Hey folks - I just took delivery of a partially completed micro hull, and the task of the keel looms large in my future. Everyone talks about epoxy, but 3M
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 2, 2002
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            Hey folks -

            I just took delivery of a partially completed micro hull, and the
            task of the keel looms large in my future. Everyone talks about
            epoxy, but 3M 5200 sticks to my tools better than anything else. Any
            thoughts on the idea? Longer working time, probably a third of the
            cost, and no worries about cracking if you anchor the wrong way (by
            the keel). I'm planning to use my car jack to get it in, any caveats
            on that method?

            Also, any ideas on cheap trailers?

            Greg
          • Chuck Leinweber
            Gregg: I m with you: 3M 5200 sticks to anything and everything. Frankly I m not too impressed with the way boat building epoxy sticks to metal. Chuck Hey
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 2, 2002
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              Gregg:

              I'm with you: 3M 5200 sticks to anything and everything. Frankly I'm not too impressed with the way boat building epoxy sticks to metal.

              Chuck
              Hey folks -

              I just took delivery of a partially completed micro hull, and the
              task of the keel looms large in my future. Everyone talks about
              epoxy, but 3M 5200 sticks to my tools better than anything else. Any
              thoughts on the idea? Longer working time, probably a third of the
              cost, and no worries about cracking if you anchor the wrong way (by
              the keel). I'm planning to use my car jack to get it in, any caveats
              on that method?

              Also, any ideas on cheap trailers?

              Greg



              Bolger rules!!!
              - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
              - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
              - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
              - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
              - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



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