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Re: [bolger] Micro Keel fasteners

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  • Chuck Leinweber
    Derek I guess my inclination would be to put the thing together, then drill the holes. You do not have to use a flow of cutting oil: Drill the wood first,
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 1, 2002
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      Derek

      I guess my inclination would be to put the thing together, then drill the holes. You do not have to use a flow of cutting oil: Drill the wood first, then withdraw the bit and give it a mist of WD-40 or a dab of your favorite cutting oil (kerosene or paint thinner would work), then shake off any excess, and proceed to drill the lead slowly. You may need to repeat the application of oil once or twice for each hole. This all assumes that you are going to sheath the keel with fiberglass. I don't think the tiny amount of oil that you would get on the wood would be a problem.

      Chuck
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Derek Waters
      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 4:19 PM
      Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro Keel fasteners


      Chuck, David,

      Thanks for the responses. As you would expect, I found drilling the lead
      'dry' is tough; the lead heats up and grabs bits. If I drill with cutting
      fluid, it seems I would have to do as follows - or have I missed something?
      Is there a simpler way?

      Start with a complete dry fit , positioning the lead, then clamping on the
      ply sheathing.
      Drill through the ply (dry) thus marking the lead for fastener location.
      Remove the ply, carefully marking it for exact repositioning afterwards.
      Finish drilling the pilot holes into the lead (this time 'wet').
      Remove the lead, having carefully marked for position.
      Carefully clean off all traces of cutting fluid.
      Butter with epoxy and reposition lead. (Epoxy clock is now ticking :)
      Reassemble epoxied ply sheathing, checking alignment.
      Pound home fasteners.
      Repeat for other side of keel, without being able to wash lead quite as
      liberally, since it will now be partially attached to the hull....

      I guess it's not that bad. How about it. Is there a simpler way?

      Cheers
      Derek


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    • sctree
      Anti-freeze/coolant makes a good lube for drilling lead, and some here say any the plywood absorbed would be anti-fungal for the plywood. Usual warning to keep
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 1, 2002
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        Anti-freeze/coolant makes a good lube for drilling lead, and some
        here
        say any the plywood absorbed would be anti-fungal for the plywood.

        Usual warning to keep the dogs (and kids) away from the liquid
        antifreeze/coolant ...

        Rick


        You do not have to use a flow of cutting oil: Drill
        the wood first, then withdraw the bit and give it a mist of WD-40 or
        a
        dab of your favorite cutting oil (kerosene or paint thinner would
        work), then shake off any excess, and proceed to drill the lead
        slowly.
      • David Ryan
        ... A friend of mine is doing quite a bit of reading about the Red Army during WWII. Apparently when the Russians would overrun a German supply depot it was
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 1, 2002
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          >Usual warning to keep the dogs (and kids) away from the liquid
          >antifreeze/coolant ...

          A friend of mine is doing quite a bit of reading about the Red Army
          during WWII. Apparently when the Russians would overrun a German
          supply depot it was imperative that an officer secure any antifreeze
          caches before the men could find it and drink it. Apparently aside
          from being sweet, it will give you a help of a buzz (before it kills
          you.)

          YIBB,

          David

          C.E.P.
          134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
          New York, New York 10001
          http://www.crumblingempire.com
          (212) 247-0296
        • rlspell2000
          The cutting fluid is really a coolant in this case. Use a small stream of water to cool the lead. Keep the speed down, and the water flow small, and you
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 1, 2002
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            The "cutting fluid" is really a coolant in this case. Use a small
            stream of water to cool the lead. Keep the speed down, and the water
            flow small, and you shouldn't have any problems. Use a phenmatic
            drill if you have one, otherwise be careful with electricity and
            water.

            You could probably get away with just dipping you bit in water every
            few seconds.

            The water will dry up and you won't have to clean oil off the wood.

            Drill the holes with the assembly clamped in place, through both the
            wood and the lead. ONLY way to get them to line up.

            (Course, if I was pouring a lead keel, I'd have cast the bolts into
            the lead...)

            --- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
            > Derek
            >
            > I guess my inclination would be to put the thing together, then
            drill the holes. You do not have to use a flow of cutting oil: Drill
            the wood first, then withdraw the bit and give it a mist of WD-40 or
            a dab of your favorite cutting oil (kerosene or paint thinner would
            work), then shake off any excess, and proceed to drill the lead
            slowly. You may need to repeat the application of oil once or twice
            for each hole. This all assumes that you are going to sheath the
            keel with fiberglass. I don't think the tiny amount of oil that you
            would get on the wood would be a problem.
            >
            > Chuck
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Derek Waters
            > To: bolger@y...
            > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 4:19 PM
            > Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro Keel fasteners
            >
            >
            > Chuck, David,
            >
            > Thanks for the responses. As you would expect, I found drilling
            the lead
            > 'dry' is tough; the lead heats up and grabs bits. If I drill with
            cutting
            > fluid, it seems I would have to do as follows - or have I missed
            something?
            > Is there a simpler way?
            >
            > Start with a complete dry fit , positioning the lead, then
            clamping on the
            > ply sheathing.
            > Drill through the ply (dry) thus marking the lead for fastener
            location.
            > Remove the ply, carefully marking it for exact repositioning
            afterwards.
            > Finish drilling the pilot holes into the lead (this time 'wet').
            > Remove the lead, having carefully marked for position.
            > Carefully clean off all traces of cutting fluid.
            > Butter with epoxy and reposition lead. (Epoxy clock is now
            ticking :)
            > Reassemble epoxied ply sheathing, checking alignment.
            > Pound home fasteners.
            > Repeat for other side of keel, without being able to wash lead
            quite as
            > liberally, since it will now be partially attached to the hull....
            >
            > I guess it's not that bad. How about it. Is there a simpler way?
            >
            > Cheers
            > Derek
            >
            >
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            >
            >
            > Bolger rules!!!
            > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
            > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
            > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
            like
            > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
            Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
            > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jeff Blunck
            Older anti-freeze was alcohol based! Like wood grain alcohol, not very compatible with the body. I m not sure when glycerin base showed up but there was a
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 1, 2002
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              Older anti-freeze was alcohol based! Like wood grain alcohol, not very compatible with the body.

              I'm not sure when glycerin base showed up but there was a slow change over as the early glycerin based anti-freeze would not cool well and get thick in extreme cold. I would bet they where talking about the alcohol based stuff.

              Either way, it'll kill you.


              Jeff
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: David Ryan
              To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 9:24 AM
              Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro Keel fasteners



              >Usual warning to keep the dogs (and kids) away from the liquid
              >antifreeze/coolant ...

              A friend of mine is doing quite a bit of reading about the Red Army
              during WWII. Apparently when the Russians would overrun a German
              supply depot it was imperative that an officer secure any antifreeze
              caches before the men could find it and drink it. Apparently aside
              from being sweet, it will give you a help of a buzz (before it kills
              you.)

              YIBB,

              David

              C.E.P.
              134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
              New York, New York 10001
              http://www.crumblingempire.com
              (212) 247-0296

              Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ADVERTISEMENT




              Bolger rules!!!
              - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
              - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
              - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
              - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
              - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • dnjost
              Right, How could I forget Peter s well built Micro. The deadwood idea is best. I have encapsulated my Micros keel bottom with 2 layers or cloth tape set in
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 1, 2002
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                Right, How could I forget Peter's well built Micro. The deadwood
                idea is best. I have encapsulated my Micros keel bottom with 2
                layers or cloth tape set in epoxy and coated the whole mess with a
                layer of 60 oz cloth. May the marine critters try to eat that mess.

                david jost

                > If you use your first option,you might also want to simply go
                > with solid deadwood fore and aft thereby doing away with the nasty
                > business of attaching the plywood panels which later may begin to
                rot
                > when their bottom edges become gouged by bottom contact thus
                exposing
                > the bare edge.
                > I have the paper pattern for my keel shape(lead ballast only)
                > that I would be willing to"lend" to any other MICRO builder wishing
                to
                > go a more traditional route with the MICRO keel.
                > Keel assembly can be seen over on DUCKWORKS MAGAZINE under the
                > articles section(archives)..........
                > Continued success with FIREFLY!!!
                > Peter Lenihan
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In bolger@y..., "dnjost" <djost@m...> wrote:
                > > If I were to do this again. Trust me, the answer is no. I would
                > do
                > > one of two things.
                > >
                > > 1. cast my keel with bronze keel bolts imbedded. That would
                hold
                > > the sucker in place while I could take all the time I wanted to
                get
                > > each side to be glued and nailed in place.
                > >
              • watsongs
                Hey folks - I just took delivery of a partially completed micro hull, and the task of the keel looms large in my future. Everyone talks about epoxy, but 3M
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 2, 2002
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                  Hey folks -

                  I just took delivery of a partially completed micro hull, and the
                  task of the keel looms large in my future. Everyone talks about
                  epoxy, but 3M 5200 sticks to my tools better than anything else. Any
                  thoughts on the idea? Longer working time, probably a third of the
                  cost, and no worries about cracking if you anchor the wrong way (by
                  the keel). I'm planning to use my car jack to get it in, any caveats
                  on that method?

                  Also, any ideas on cheap trailers?

                  Greg
                • Chuck Leinweber
                  Gregg: I m with you: 3M 5200 sticks to anything and everything. Frankly I m not too impressed with the way boat building epoxy sticks to metal. Chuck Hey
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 2, 2002
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                    Gregg:

                    I'm with you: 3M 5200 sticks to anything and everything. Frankly I'm not too impressed with the way boat building epoxy sticks to metal.

                    Chuck
                    Hey folks -

                    I just took delivery of a partially completed micro hull, and the
                    task of the keel looms large in my future. Everyone talks about
                    epoxy, but 3M 5200 sticks to my tools better than anything else. Any
                    thoughts on the idea? Longer working time, probably a third of the
                    cost, and no worries about cracking if you anchor the wrong way (by
                    the keel). I'm planning to use my car jack to get it in, any caveats
                    on that method?

                    Also, any ideas on cheap trailers?

                    Greg



                    Bolger rules!!!
                    - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                    - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
                    - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
                    - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                    - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



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