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Re: Micro Keel fasteners

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  • ellengaestboatbuildingcom
    David, If you use your first option,you might also want to simply go with solid deadwood fore and aft thereby doing away with the nasty business of attaching
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 1, 2002
      David,
      If you use your first option,you might also want to simply go
      with solid deadwood fore and aft thereby doing away with the nasty
      business of attaching the plywood panels which later may begin to rot
      when their bottom edges become gouged by bottom contact thus exposing
      the bare edge.
      I have the paper pattern for my keel shape(lead ballast only)
      that I would be willing to"lend" to any other MICRO builder wishing to
      go a more traditional route with the MICRO keel.
      Keel assembly can be seen over on DUCKWORKS MAGAZINE under the
      articles section(archives)..........
      Continued success with FIREFLY!!!
      Peter Lenihan






      --- In bolger@y..., "dnjost" <djost@m...> wrote:
      > If I were to do this again. Trust me, the answer is no. I would
      do
      > one of two things.
      >
      > 1. cast my keel with bronze keel bolts imbedded. That would hold
      > the sucker in place while I could take all the time I wanted to get
      > each side to be glued and nailed in place.
      >
    • Chuck Leinweber
      Derek I guess my inclination would be to put the thing together, then drill the holes. You do not have to use a flow of cutting oil: Drill the wood first,
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 1, 2002
        Derek

        I guess my inclination would be to put the thing together, then drill the holes. You do not have to use a flow of cutting oil: Drill the wood first, then withdraw the bit and give it a mist of WD-40 or a dab of your favorite cutting oil (kerosene or paint thinner would work), then shake off any excess, and proceed to drill the lead slowly. You may need to repeat the application of oil once or twice for each hole. This all assumes that you are going to sheath the keel with fiberglass. I don't think the tiny amount of oil that you would get on the wood would be a problem.

        Chuck
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Derek Waters
        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 4:19 PM
        Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro Keel fasteners


        Chuck, David,

        Thanks for the responses. As you would expect, I found drilling the lead
        'dry' is tough; the lead heats up and grabs bits. If I drill with cutting
        fluid, it seems I would have to do as follows - or have I missed something?
        Is there a simpler way?

        Start with a complete dry fit , positioning the lead, then clamping on the
        ply sheathing.
        Drill through the ply (dry) thus marking the lead for fastener location.
        Remove the ply, carefully marking it for exact repositioning afterwards.
        Finish drilling the pilot holes into the lead (this time 'wet').
        Remove the lead, having carefully marked for position.
        Carefully clean off all traces of cutting fluid.
        Butter with epoxy and reposition lead. (Epoxy clock is now ticking :)
        Reassemble epoxied ply sheathing, checking alignment.
        Pound home fasteners.
        Repeat for other side of keel, without being able to wash lead quite as
        liberally, since it will now be partially attached to the hull....

        I guess it's not that bad. How about it. Is there a simpler way?

        Cheers
        Derek


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      • sctree
        Anti-freeze/coolant makes a good lube for drilling lead, and some here say any the plywood absorbed would be anti-fungal for the plywood. Usual warning to keep
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 1, 2002
          Anti-freeze/coolant makes a good lube for drilling lead, and some
          here
          say any the plywood absorbed would be anti-fungal for the plywood.

          Usual warning to keep the dogs (and kids) away from the liquid
          antifreeze/coolant ...

          Rick


          You do not have to use a flow of cutting oil: Drill
          the wood first, then withdraw the bit and give it a mist of WD-40 or
          a
          dab of your favorite cutting oil (kerosene or paint thinner would
          work), then shake off any excess, and proceed to drill the lead
          slowly.
        • David Ryan
          ... A friend of mine is doing quite a bit of reading about the Red Army during WWII. Apparently when the Russians would overrun a German supply depot it was
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 1, 2002
            >Usual warning to keep the dogs (and kids) away from the liquid
            >antifreeze/coolant ...

            A friend of mine is doing quite a bit of reading about the Red Army
            during WWII. Apparently when the Russians would overrun a German
            supply depot it was imperative that an officer secure any antifreeze
            caches before the men could find it and drink it. Apparently aside
            from being sweet, it will give you a help of a buzz (before it kills
            you.)

            YIBB,

            David

            C.E.P.
            134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
            New York, New York 10001
            http://www.crumblingempire.com
            (212) 247-0296
          • rlspell2000
            The cutting fluid is really a coolant in this case. Use a small stream of water to cool the lead. Keep the speed down, and the water flow small, and you
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 1, 2002
              The "cutting fluid" is really a coolant in this case. Use a small
              stream of water to cool the lead. Keep the speed down, and the water
              flow small, and you shouldn't have any problems. Use a phenmatic
              drill if you have one, otherwise be careful with electricity and
              water.

              You could probably get away with just dipping you bit in water every
              few seconds.

              The water will dry up and you won't have to clean oil off the wood.

              Drill the holes with the assembly clamped in place, through both the
              wood and the lead. ONLY way to get them to line up.

              (Course, if I was pouring a lead keel, I'd have cast the bolts into
              the lead...)

              --- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
              > Derek
              >
              > I guess my inclination would be to put the thing together, then
              drill the holes. You do not have to use a flow of cutting oil: Drill
              the wood first, then withdraw the bit and give it a mist of WD-40 or
              a dab of your favorite cutting oil (kerosene or paint thinner would
              work), then shake off any excess, and proceed to drill the lead
              slowly. You may need to repeat the application of oil once or twice
              for each hole. This all assumes that you are going to sheath the
              keel with fiberglass. I don't think the tiny amount of oil that you
              would get on the wood would be a problem.
              >
              > Chuck
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Derek Waters
              > To: bolger@y...
              > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 4:19 PM
              > Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro Keel fasteners
              >
              >
              > Chuck, David,
              >
              > Thanks for the responses. As you would expect, I found drilling
              the lead
              > 'dry' is tough; the lead heats up and grabs bits. If I drill with
              cutting
              > fluid, it seems I would have to do as follows - or have I missed
              something?
              > Is there a simpler way?
              >
              > Start with a complete dry fit , positioning the lead, then
              clamping on the
              > ply sheathing.
              > Drill through the ply (dry) thus marking the lead for fastener
              location.
              > Remove the ply, carefully marking it for exact repositioning
              afterwards.
              > Finish drilling the pilot holes into the lead (this time 'wet').
              > Remove the lead, having carefully marked for position.
              > Carefully clean off all traces of cutting fluid.
              > Butter with epoxy and reposition lead. (Epoxy clock is now
              ticking :)
              > Reassemble epoxied ply sheathing, checking alignment.
              > Pound home fasteners.
              > Repeat for other side of keel, without being able to wash lead
              quite as
              > liberally, since it will now be partially attached to the hull....
              >
              > I guess it's not that bad. How about it. Is there a simpler way?
              >
              > Cheers
              > Derek
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Bolger rules!!!
              > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
              > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
              > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
              like
              > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
              Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
              > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jeff Blunck
              Older anti-freeze was alcohol based! Like wood grain alcohol, not very compatible with the body. I m not sure when glycerin base showed up but there was a
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 1, 2002
                Older anti-freeze was alcohol based! Like wood grain alcohol, not very compatible with the body.

                I'm not sure when glycerin base showed up but there was a slow change over as the early glycerin based anti-freeze would not cool well and get thick in extreme cold. I would bet they where talking about the alcohol based stuff.

                Either way, it'll kill you.


                Jeff
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: David Ryan
                To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 9:24 AM
                Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro Keel fasteners



                >Usual warning to keep the dogs (and kids) away from the liquid
                >antifreeze/coolant ...

                A friend of mine is doing quite a bit of reading about the Red Army
                during WWII. Apparently when the Russians would overrun a German
                supply depot it was imperative that an officer secure any antifreeze
                caches before the men could find it and drink it. Apparently aside
                from being sweet, it will give you a help of a buzz (before it kills
                you.)

                YIBB,

                David

                C.E.P.
                134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
                New York, New York 10001
                http://www.crumblingempire.com
                (212) 247-0296

                Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                ADVERTISEMENT




                Bolger rules!!!
                - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
                - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
                - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • dnjost
                Right, How could I forget Peter s well built Micro. The deadwood idea is best. I have encapsulated my Micros keel bottom with 2 layers or cloth tape set in
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 1, 2002
                  Right, How could I forget Peter's well built Micro. The deadwood
                  idea is best. I have encapsulated my Micros keel bottom with 2
                  layers or cloth tape set in epoxy and coated the whole mess with a
                  layer of 60 oz cloth. May the marine critters try to eat that mess.

                  david jost

                  > If you use your first option,you might also want to simply go
                  > with solid deadwood fore and aft thereby doing away with the nasty
                  > business of attaching the plywood panels which later may begin to
                  rot
                  > when their bottom edges become gouged by bottom contact thus
                  exposing
                  > the bare edge.
                  > I have the paper pattern for my keel shape(lead ballast only)
                  > that I would be willing to"lend" to any other MICRO builder wishing
                  to
                  > go a more traditional route with the MICRO keel.
                  > Keel assembly can be seen over on DUCKWORKS MAGAZINE under the
                  > articles section(archives)..........
                  > Continued success with FIREFLY!!!
                  > Peter Lenihan
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In bolger@y..., "dnjost" <djost@m...> wrote:
                  > > If I were to do this again. Trust me, the answer is no. I would
                  > do
                  > > one of two things.
                  > >
                  > > 1. cast my keel with bronze keel bolts imbedded. That would
                  hold
                  > > the sucker in place while I could take all the time I wanted to
                  get
                  > > each side to be glued and nailed in place.
                  > >
                • watsongs
                  Hey folks - I just took delivery of a partially completed micro hull, and the task of the keel looms large in my future. Everyone talks about epoxy, but 3M
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 2, 2002
                    Hey folks -

                    I just took delivery of a partially completed micro hull, and the
                    task of the keel looms large in my future. Everyone talks about
                    epoxy, but 3M 5200 sticks to my tools better than anything else. Any
                    thoughts on the idea? Longer working time, probably a third of the
                    cost, and no worries about cracking if you anchor the wrong way (by
                    the keel). I'm planning to use my car jack to get it in, any caveats
                    on that method?

                    Also, any ideas on cheap trailers?

                    Greg
                  • Chuck Leinweber
                    Gregg: I m with you: 3M 5200 sticks to anything and everything. Frankly I m not too impressed with the way boat building epoxy sticks to metal. Chuck Hey
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 2, 2002
                      Gregg:

                      I'm with you: 3M 5200 sticks to anything and everything. Frankly I'm not too impressed with the way boat building epoxy sticks to metal.

                      Chuck
                      Hey folks -

                      I just took delivery of a partially completed micro hull, and the
                      task of the keel looms large in my future. Everyone talks about
                      epoxy, but 3M 5200 sticks to my tools better than anything else. Any
                      thoughts on the idea? Longer working time, probably a third of the
                      cost, and no worries about cracking if you anchor the wrong way (by
                      the keel). I'm planning to use my car jack to get it in, any caveats
                      on that method?

                      Also, any ideas on cheap trailers?

                      Greg



                      Bolger rules!!!
                      - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                      - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
                      - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
                      - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                      - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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