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Otter photo

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  • brucehector
    I posted a photo of Jum Huxford s Otter to the photo section of this group. It s now pic #19. Bruce Hector
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 28, 2002
      I posted a photo of Jum Huxford's "Otter" to the photo section of
      this group. It's now pic #19.

      Bruce Hector
    • roue20ca
      Bruce, I can t seem to locate the photo can we have some direction. Can t wait to see it. Andy Moore Nova Scotia Canada
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 28, 2002
        Bruce, I can't seem to locate the photo can we have some direction.

        Can't wait to see it.

        Andy Moore
        Nova Scotia
        Canada

        --- In bolger@y..., "brucehector" <bruce_hector@h...> wrote:
        > I posted a photo of Jum Huxford's "Otter" to the photo section of
        > this group. It's now pic #19.
        >
        > Bruce Hector
      • futabachan
        ... It s there, but Yahoo! only displays 16 photos at a time. Try clicking on next 3 or display all. -- Susan Davis
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 28, 2002
          > Bruce, I can't seem to locate the photo can we have some direction.

          It's there, but Yahoo! only displays 16 photos at a time. Try
          clicking on "next 3" or "display all."

          --
          Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
        • roue20ca
          Got it, nice photo and boat. She looks quite sleek, I think bet she sail well. Andy Nova Scotia Canada ... direction.
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 28, 2002
            Got it, nice photo and boat. She looks quite sleek, I think bet she
            sail well.

            Andy
            Nova Scotia
            Canada

            --- In bolger@y..., "futabachan" <futabachan@y...> wrote:
            > > Bruce, I can't seem to locate the photo can we have some
            direction.
            >
            > It's there, but Yahoo! only displays 16 photos at a time. Try
            > clicking on "next 3" or "display all."
            >
            > --
            > Susan Davis <futabachan@y...>
          • Harry W. James
            Thanks for the pix. The reason that got interested in the original design was the fore mast, jigger mast, jib mast? that is not on Huxford s boat. I don t know
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 28, 2002
              Thanks for the pix. The reason that got interested in the original
              design was the fore mast, jigger mast, jib mast? that is not on
              Huxford's boat. I don't know if this is an adaptation of an old idea,
              but I have never seen one before. He just kind of casually threw in
              something I consider fairly radical, like he often does, and I was
              wondering how it worked, not with any burning desire to build one.
              Looking at a lot of his designs when he has ventured far astray from
              convention is like reading an unfinished thriller, you are left
              wondering how it all came out.


              HJ
              brucehector wrote:
              >
              > I posted a photo of Jum Huxford's "Otter" to the photo section of
              > this group. It's now pic #19.
              >
              > Bruce Hector
              >
            • Mark Albanese
              You can see in Small Boats It is nothing more or less than an old-fashioned cat-schooner with a jigger added, the only innovation being the sharp rake of
              Message 6 of 12 , Mar 1, 2002
                You can see in 'Small Boats'
                " It is nothing more or less than an old-fashioned
                cat-schooner with a jigger added, the only innovation being
                the sharp rake of the foremast, which is intended to get
                some of the weight out of the bow and, more important, to
                improve the aerodynamics of the mainsail."

                In the specs he calls it a cantilever rig.

                Having once cut out the frames and planking for the Otter II
                and set them up provisionally, I was eager to have a second
                look at the picture.

                It has to be the original design #231. The later model would
                look beamier, have a wider transom and, I think, be a little
                deeper. But the foremast's not in use that day.

                Playing around with the picture at different sizes, I swear
                I almost see a dark circle for the hole in the foredeck
                where it goes. There is a pole or two lashed to starboard.
                The drawn wooden spar has only a 2.5" maximum section and is
                15' 11".

                This is an interesting craft, an early effort to design a
                complex instant boat. Jim Huxford's might be #2. The
                original client lived on the north shore of Long Island. But
                he's the one to ask for more.

                Mark


                "Harry W. James" wrote:
                >
                > Thanks for the pix. The reason that got interested in the
                > original
                > design was the fore mast, jigger mast, jib mast? that is
                > not on
                > Huxford's boat. I don't know if this is an adaptation of
                > an old idea,
                > but I have never seen one before. He just kind of casually
                > threw in
                > something I consider fairly radical, like he often does,
                > and I was
                > wondering how it worked, not with any burning desire to
                > build one.
                > Looking at a lot of his designs when he has ventured far
                > astray from
                > convention is like reading an unfinished thriller, you are
                > left
                > wondering how it all came out.
                >
                > HJ
                > brucehector wrote:
                > >
                > > I posted a photo of Jum Huxford's "Otter" to the photo
                > section of
                > > this group. It's now pic #19.
                > >
                > > Bruce Hector
                > >
                >
              • pvanderwaart
                ... The forward-raking sail is shown in some of Chapelle s books. It was used in Chesapeake bay craft in the 19th century. See American Small Sailing Craft,
                Message 7 of 12 , Mar 1, 2002
                  > The only innovation being
                  > the sharp rake of the foremast, which is intended to get
                  > some of the weight out of the bow.

                  The forward-raking sail is shown in some of Chapelle's books. It was
                  used in Chesapeake bay craft in the 19th century. See "American Small
                  Sailing Craft," page 301 for a drawing. It was called "stick-up rig"
                  (page 292).

                  PHV
                • roue20ca
                  There was a article in WB about this kind of rig. I ll see if I can dig it up and let you know which issue. Andy Moore Nova Scotia Canada ... Small
                  Message 8 of 12 , Mar 1, 2002
                    There was a article in WB about this kind of rig. I'll see if I can
                    dig it up and let you know which issue.

                    Andy Moore
                    Nova Scotia
                    Canada

                    --- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...> wrote:
                    > > The only innovation being
                    > > the sharp rake of the foremast, which is intended to get
                    > > some of the weight out of the bow.
                    >
                    > The forward-raking sail is shown in some of Chapelle's books. It was
                    > used in Chesapeake bay craft in the 19th century. See "American
                    Small
                    > Sailing Craft," page 301 for a drawing. It was called "stick-up rig"
                    > (page 292).
                    >
                    > PHV
                  • David Romasco
                    I may be off base, but I recall Otter as having a spar that raked backward from the bow to the tip of the after (main? mizzen?) mast, rather than being raked
                    Message 9 of 12 , Mar 1, 2002
                      I may be off base, but I recall Otter as having a spar that raked
                      backward from the bow to the tip of the after (main? mizzen?) mast,
                      rather than being raked forward. I, too, wondered how well it worked.

                      David Romasco

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: roue20ca [mailto:amoore@...]
                      Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 10:10 AM
                      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [bolger] Re: Otter photo


                      There was a article in WB about this kind of rig. I'll see if I can
                      dig it up and let you know which issue.

                      Andy Moore
                      Nova Scotia
                      Canada

                      --- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...> wrote:
                      > > The only innovation being
                      > > the sharp rake of the foremast, which is intended to get
                      > > some of the weight out of the bow.
                      >
                      > The forward-raking sail is shown in some of Chapelle's books. It was
                      > used in Chesapeake bay craft in the 19th century. See "American
                      Small
                      > Sailing Craft," page 301 for a drawing. It was called "stick-up rig"
                      > (page 292).
                      >
                      > PHV



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                    • rnlocnil
                      The Otter foremast and the stick up rig in Chapelle are raked in opposite directions. ... was ... rig
                      Message 10 of 12 , Mar 1, 2002
                        The Otter foremast and the stick up rig in Chapelle are raked in
                        opposite directions.
                        --- In bolger@y..., "roue20ca" <amoore@h...> wrote:
                        > There was a article in WB about this kind of rig. I'll see if I can
                        > dig it up and let you know which issue.
                        >
                        > Andy Moore
                        > Nova Scotia
                        > Canada
                        >
                        > --- In bolger@y..., "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...> wrote:
                        > > > The only innovation being
                        > > > the sharp rake of the foremast, which is intended to get
                        > > > some of the weight out of the bow.
                        > >
                        > > The forward-raking sail is shown in some of Chapelle's books. It
                        was
                        > > used in Chesapeake bay craft in the 19th century. See "American
                        > Small
                        > > Sailing Craft," page 301 for a drawing. It was called "stick-up
                        rig"
                        > > (page 292).
                        > >
                        > > PHV
                      • pvanderwaart
                        How embarrassing for me! I should have checked. Sorry. - PHV
                        Message 11 of 12 , Mar 1, 2002
                          How embarrassing for me! I should have checked. Sorry. - PHV

                          > The Otter foremast and the stick up rig in Chapelle are raked in
                          > opposite directions.
                        • wmrpage@aol.com
                          In a message dated 3/1/02 9:22:58 AM Central Standard Time, ... Bolger s 100 Small Boat Rigs , design 67 Aft-Raking Foremast , speaks well of this concept.
                          Message 12 of 12 , Mar 4, 2002
                            In a message dated 3/1/02 9:22:58 AM Central Standard Time,
                            dromasco@... writes:


                            > I recall Otter as having a spar that raked
                            > backward from the bow to the tip of the after (main? mizzen?) mast,
                            > rather than being raked forward. I, too, wondered how well it worked.
                            >

                            Bolger's "100 Small Boat Rigs", design 67 "Aft-Raking Foremast", speaks well
                            of this concept. Credit for the concept is given to Uffa Fox. Per Bolger, Fox
                            invented this in 1933 as a successful rule-beater for sailing canoe
                            competition. The rule-makers intended to restrict rigs to cat ketches, but
                            didn't quite come right out and say it. Fox essentially created a sloop,
                            with the luff of the jib supported by the fore-mast instead of a tensioned
                            luff. Bolger said that Fox took just about every trophy on offer that season.
                            The rules were subsequently changed to permit sloop rigs with standing
                            rigging. Bolger says that this killed the concept as a racing rig, as the
                            smoother air flow over the thin wire luff gave the stayed rigs an insuperable
                            advantage in that context. In a non-racing context, I'd think that the
                            virtues of not needing standing rigging and big jib luff tensions would make
                            this an attractive idea.

                            Design #66 is the Chesapeake Bay "stick-up" rig. Bolger doesn't think it has
                            any notable virtues.

                            Ciao for Niao,
                            Bill in MN


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