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Otter

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  • Harry W. James
    Has anybody ever built Otter pg 119 Small Boats? I a very curious if the raked foremast that acts like a jib worked. Would love to see pictures. HJ
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 26, 2002
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      Has anybody ever built Otter pg 119 Small Boats? I a very curious if the
      raked foremast that acts like a jib worked. Would love to see pictures.


      HJ
    • rnlocnil
      I think so, as I recall there was an Otter 2 design with changes based on experience. ... the ... pictures.
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 26, 2002
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        I think so, as I recall there was an Otter 2 design with changes based
        on experience.
        --- In bolger@y..., "Harry W. James" <welshman@p...> wrote:
        > Has anybody ever built Otter pg 119 Small Boats? I a very curious if
        the
        > raked foremast that acts like a jib worked. Would love to see
        pictures.
        >
        >
        > HJ
      • Mark Albanese
        The one referenced here http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/1998/0615/ and w/ photo here http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/1999/0315/ is
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 27, 2002
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          The one referenced here
          http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/1998/0615/
          and w/ photo here
          http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/1999/0315/
          is the original model, I think, though it doesn't show the jigger.

          Builder Jim Huxford is a friend of Jim Michalak's and gets
          several Google hits himself. Maybe you can track down his
          email and ask about it.

          Mark

          "Harry W. James" wrote:
          >
          > Has anybody ever built Otter pg 119 Small Boats? I a very
          > curious if the
          > raked foremast that acts like a jib worked. Would love to
          > see pictures.
          >
        • Karl Rasmussen
          Graeme, Otter (the first, from Small Boats) was described as an early attempt at an instant boat. Bolger later said (in the book Different Boats)that Otter 1
          Message 4 of 14 , Mar 1, 2005
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            Graeme,
            Otter (the first, from Small Boats) was described as an early attempt at an instant boat. Bolger later said (in the book Different Boats)that Otter 1 sailed well, but the presentation on the plans was inelegant, hence the redesign for Otter 11. Also, the response from people regarding the unusual rig caused him to design something more conventional for Otter 11.

            I haven't got the book in front of me, but I think Bolger described the rig for Otter 1 as a re-jig of an old fashioned Cat Schooner rig, with a jigger added.
            The foremast was back from the stem just enough to giver it sufficient bury, and it was tilted back to resemble a jib, but with a mast instead of a luff wire. The foremast stopped short of touching the mainmast, which was stepped through the cuddy in about the same place as you would expect to find a sloop mast. I can't remember the exact position of the mizzen. I suspect the one in your picture is rigged differently.

            The rudder is mounted on the transom, and the tiller has some sort of linked extension. Bolger explains that the boat won't trim properly with the helmsman far enough aft to use a normal length tiller.

            The boat has a transom.

            I think the boat has two leeboards, but would have to find my book to be sure. I'm currently at work!
            The boat is lightly constructed like most Bolger sharpies, but it has integral water ballast tanks holding about 350lb water. He describes it as a fast and weatherly sailor.

            Cheers,
            Karl Rasmussen






            -----Original Message-----
            From: graeme19121984 [mailto:graeme19121984@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, 2 March 2005 3:27 p.m.
            To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [bolger] Re: Otter




            Bruce,
            congratulations on launching Rose and happy sailing.

            Thanks yet again for posting wonderful info for the delectation and
            savouring by we hungry resource starved Bolgeristas.

            Like Gavin I sigh every time I see that photo of Otter sailing. The
            high resolution black and white shows details somewhat clearer than
            the small colour version I have seen previously.

            When I first saw that colour pic over a year ago I was really taken
            with Otter. BUT confused...

            Around the same time there were posts about David Carnell's Otter.
            He emailed me his brief comments on that boat (too heavy and
            difficult to rig to easily trail; no real problems though some
            reportedly swamped; cramped for two-up cruising; a good sailer). It
            was an Otter ll. Slowly it dawned on my dumb self that it was a very
            different boat to that of Jim Huxford's in the photo. Then someone
            thankfully posted a scan of the profile of Otter ll from the book
            and the gaff rigged Otter ll was obviously different to Otter.

            From the database:
            Otter #231 19'6" x4'10" Sail $100.00 PB&F Daysailer-cruiser -
            leeboard plywood sharpie - ref: SmallBoats Ch#22;

            Otter II #375 19'6'' x 5'10'' Sail PB&F Plywood Cat Yawl
            Cruiser - ref: Diff. Boats Ch#13.

            I'm still uncertain about some things concerning Otter (the one in
            the photo Bruce posted):

            1. is it ketch or yawl rigged?

            2. is the rudder beneath or mounted from the transom?

            3. if aft of the mizzen, what method of tiller solution?

            4. does it have a transom or is it double ended?

            5. two leeboards, or one only changed to the lee side when tacking?

            6. rope slung leeboards?

            7. is the boat heavy?

            8. any ballast?

            9. how good a sailer?

            10. does the jib enhance windward ability?

            11. is the mast stayed ( are those shrouds I can just see in the
            photo)?

            12. is the mast stepped through the cabin top?

            13. if so, how is water entry prevented?

            14. there seems to be no cabin top hatch (as distinct from Otter
            ll), so if (crawling) access is via the aft cabin bulkhead how is
            water entry prevented?

            15. have many been built, any pics?

            16. would the plans still be US$100?

            17. how good a rower?

            18. about when was it designed?

            I imagine it to be similar in shape, size and construction to
            Singlehand Schooner, though obviously not the same rig and not blue
            water capable, but a bit more cabin space and thin water
            gunkholeability. And a smaller project than Birdwatcher.(Are Mr
            Bolger and Friends going to come out with a smaller Birdwatcher
            design, or perhaps the self-righting physics won't work for a
            shorter, narrower boat? I've read here of people contemplating
            Zephyr modification, but don't know if it was carried out.)

            Otter sure looks sweet in that photo. I'd appreciate any info from
            the group that might complete and clarify the picture of Otter I
            have in my mind. A scan (profile?) would be wonderful, anyone? A
            model to wonder at, Bruce?

            fair winds
            graeme


            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
            > Here is a photo of an Otter,
            > at a Midwest mess-a-bout
            > circa 1990.
            >
            > Also, that if Jim Michalak's
            > original Birdwatcher and a Micro.
            >
            > http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Otter.jpg






            Bolger rules!!!
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            - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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          • Gavin Atkin
            This question of the Otter s rig is an interesting one. Working from memory of an email conversation I had with Jim Huxford some years ago, the boat was always
            Message 5 of 14 , Mar 2, 2005
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              This question of the Otter's rig is an interesting one. Working from memory
              of an email conversation I had with Jim Huxford some years ago, the boat
              was always very fast compared with other boats at Messabouts. He didn't use
              the aft-leaning foremast that made the boat unpopular, but instead (here
              I'm getting hazy) I think he used the three stays so he could hang a jib on
              the forestay. Looking at the drawing, there's no reason to think that it
              would not work.

              If Bolger had just reorganised the rig a little, the original Otter might
              have been much more popular and I rather wonder why he didn't.

              I tend to draw my own boats, but if there are three of Bolger's that I'd
              build they would be the Black Skimmer, the Otter and the Auray Punt. That
              last one just goes to prove that I'm not the shallow type who goes only for
              looks. Sheryl Crowe indeed! It's that attractive sheer that gets light
              dories blown around...

              Gavin


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            • graeme19121984
              Hi Karl, thanks very much for aswering my queries. Yes, the boat in the photo must be rigged differently as it looks to me to be stayed, with a self-tacking
              Message 6 of 14 , Mar 2, 2005
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                Hi Karl,

                thanks very much for aswering my queries.

                Yes, the boat in the photo must be rigged differently as it looks to
                me to be stayed, with a self-tacking club boom of an unrigged jib
                stowed on the foredeck. I wonder if this boat was rigged not per
                plan in accord with the negative public response to an unusual rig
                you say Bolger wrote of, or perhaps just because this rig was easier
                to rig or to hand at the time(both sails photoed appear
                conventionally footed to booms, both masts of alloy)? I've seen
                sketches of some other Bolger designs with an aft leaning foremast.
                I can't recall the smaller ones, but PCB's proposed 1984 OSTAR entry
                for William Wallace uses one likewise seperate to the mainmast, and
                with mast furling.

                350lbs water ballast: I like that for trailing then sailing.

                Fast and weatherly sailer: I've noticed since I first posted that
                in the photo there appear to be side decks in way of the cockpit for
                hiking out. Otter sounds better all the time!

                Thanks again.

                Kind regards
                graeme


                --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Karl Rasmussen"
                <karl.rasmussen@t...> wrote:
                > Graeme,
                > Otter (the first, from Small Boats) was described as an
                early attempt at an instant boat. Bolger later said (in the book
                Different Boats)that Otter 1 sailed well, but the presentation on
                the plans was inelegant, hence the redesign for Otter 11. Also, the
                response from people regarding the unusual rig caused him to design
                something more conventional for Otter 11.
                >
                > I haven't got the book in front of me, but I think Bolger
                described the rig for Otter 1 as a re-jig of an old fashioned Cat
                Schooner rig, with a jigger added.
                > The foremast was back from the stem just enough to giver it
                sufficient bury, and it was tilted back to resemble a jib, but with
                a mast instead of a luff wire. The foremast stopped short of
                touching the mainmast, which was stepped through the cuddy in about
                the same place as you would expect to find a sloop mast. I can't
                remember the exact position of the mizzen. I suspect the one in your
                picture is rigged differently.
                >
                > The rudder is mounted on the transom, and the tiller has
                some sort of linked extension. Bolger explains that the boat won't
                trim properly with the helmsman far enough aft to use a normal
                length tiller.
                >
                > The boat has a transom.
                >
                > I think the boat has two leeboards, but would have to find
                my book to be sure. I'm currently at work!
                > The boat is lightly constructed like most Bolger sharpies,
                but it has integral water ballast tanks holding about 350lb water.
                He describes it as a fast and weatherly sailor.
                >
                > Cheers,
                > Karl Rasmussen
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: graeme19121984 [mailto:graeme19121984@y...]
                > Sent: Wednesday, 2 March 2005 3:27 p.m.
                > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [bolger] Re: Otter
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Bruce,
                > congratulations on launching Rose and happy sailing.
                >
                > Thanks yet again for posting wonderful info for the delectation
                and
                > savouring by we hungry resource starved Bolgeristas.
                >
                > Like Gavin I sigh every time I see that photo of Otter sailing.
                The
                > high resolution black and white shows details somewhat clearer
                than
                > the small colour version I have seen previously.
                >
                > When I first saw that colour pic over a year ago I was really
                taken
                > with Otter. BUT confused...
                >
                > Around the same time there were posts about David Carnell's
                Otter.
                > He emailed me his brief comments on that boat (too heavy and
                > difficult to rig to easily trail; no real problems though some
                > reportedly swamped; cramped for two-up cruising; a good sailer).
                It
                > was an Otter ll. Slowly it dawned on my dumb self that it was a
                very
                > different boat to that of Jim Huxford's in the photo. Then someone
                > thankfully posted a scan of the profile of Otter ll from the book
                > and the gaff rigged Otter ll was obviously different to Otter.
                >
                > From the database:
                > Otter #231 19'6" x4'10" Sail $100.00 PB&F Daysailer-cruiser -

                > leeboard plywood sharpie - ref: SmallBoats Ch#22;
                >
                > Otter II #375 19'6'' x 5'10'' Sail PB&F Plywood Cat Yawl
                > Cruiser - ref: Diff. Boats Ch#13.
                >
                > I'm still uncertain about some things concerning Otter (the one in
                > the photo Bruce posted):
                >
                > 1. is it ketch or yawl rigged?
                >
                > 2. is the rudder beneath or mounted from the transom?
                >
                > 3. if aft of the mizzen, what method of tiller solution?
                >
                > 4. does it have a transom or is it double ended?
                >
                > 5. two leeboards, or one only changed to the lee side when tacking?
                >
                > 6. rope slung leeboards?
                >
                > 7. is the boat heavy?
                >
                > 8. any ballast?
                >
                > 9. how good a sailer?
                >
                > 10. does the jib enhance windward ability?
                >
                > 11. is the mast stayed ( are those shrouds I can just see in the
                > photo)?
                >
                > 12. is the mast stepped through the cabin top?
                >
                > 13. if so, how is water entry prevented?
                >
                > 14. there seems to be no cabin top hatch (as distinct from Otter
                > ll), so if (crawling) access is via the aft cabin bulkhead how is
                > water entry prevented?
                >
                > 15. have many been built, any pics?
                >
                > 16. would the plans still be US$100?
                >
                > 17. how good a rower?
                >
                > 18. about when was it designed?
                >
                > I imagine it to be similar in shape, size and construction to
                > Singlehand Schooner, though obviously not the same rig and not
                blue
                > water capable, but a bit more cabin space and thin water
                > gunkholeability. And a smaller project than Birdwatcher.(Are Mr
                > Bolger and Friends going to come out with a smaller Birdwatcher
                > design, or perhaps the self-righting physics won't work for a
                > shorter, narrower boat? I've read here of people contemplating
                > Zephyr modification, but don't know if it was carried out.)
                >
                > Otter sure looks sweet in that photo. I'd appreciate any info from
                > the group that might complete and clarify the picture of Otter I
                > have in my mind. A scan (profile?) would be wonderful, anyone? A
                > model to wonder at, Bruce?
                >
                > fair winds
                > graeme
                >
                >
                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                > > Here is a photo of an Otter,
                > > at a Midwest mess-a-bout
                > > circa 1990.
                > >
                > > Also, that if Jim Michalak's
                > > original Birdwatcher and a Micro.
                > >
                > > http://www.hallman.org/bolger/Otter.jpg
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Bolger rules!!!
                > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
                posts
                > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
                01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
              • Karl Rasmussen
                Graeme, I should have brought the book to work with me tonight, but I m sure the mainmast is a high peaked gaff, not a gunter. Karl ... From: graeme19121984
                Message 7 of 14 , Mar 2, 2005
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                  Graeme,
                  I should have brought the book to work with me tonight, but I'm sure the mainmast is a high peaked gaff, not a gunter.

                  Karl


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: graeme19121984 [mailto:graeme19121984@...]
                  Sent: Thursday, 3 March 2005 6:01 p.m.
                  To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [bolger] Re: Otter




                  Thanks for your help Bruce.

                  >The center mast is double, like a gunter
                  I think I understand what the as-designed rig is more or less like,
                  however I'm surprised to see this. I had gained an impression that
                  PCB did not have a good opinion of the gunter rig.

                  > Looks pretty lightweight, and I don't think it has
                  > any hard ballast, but there is some water ballast,
                  > under a false bottom to the cuddy and cockpit.
                  Does it look like the under floor ballast below the cuddy robs too
                  much space? I ask this because the scan of Otter ll I've seen has a
                  higher cabin top than Otter and even higher cabin top sliding hatch.

                  > Seek out a copy of the book _Small Boats_
                  > [$40 +/- on EBay every month or so.]
                  > The full set of plans and building key are
                  > reproduced in the book.
                  Surely good advice and I've begun to get to grips with EBay in order
                  to read any of those earlier works. Its looked to me that
                  international shipping charges price most prospective book purchases
                  beyond the acceptable. But if they are personally really worth it
                  and will never be available any other way... Perhaps a bulk purchase?
                  but surely the *Collected Works* will one day be available on CD or
                  whatever...?

                  > > 14. there seems to be no cabin top hatch
                  > It has a 'crawl in' hatch, like the LF Herreshoff
                  > Rosinante.
                  We can still crawl so don't mind that at all, but wonder if it has
                  a bulkhead extending upwards from the floor to exclude any cockpit
                  water from the cabin?

                  > Ten sheets of plywood.
                  > It looks like a very simple and fast build
                  Very simple suits me.

                  kind regards
                  graeme













                  Bolger rules!!!
                  - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                  - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                  - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                  - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                  - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • Bruce Hallman
                  ... This could easily be true, I am not sure I know the difference.
                  Message 8 of 14 , Mar 2, 2005
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                    >mainmast is a high peaked gaff, not a gunter.

                    This could easily be true, I am not sure I know the difference.
                  • Bruce Fountain
                    ... A gunter is like a gaff, but the gaff itself is vertical (ie it continues in a straight line from the top of the mast). The sail is cut triangular, like a
                    Message 9 of 14 , Mar 2, 2005
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                      Bruce Hallman wrote:
                      >mainmast is a high peaked gaff, not a gunter.
                      >
                      > This could easily be true, I am not sure I know the difference.

                      A gunter is like a gaff, but the gaff itself is vertical (ie it
                      continues in a straight line from the top of the mast). The sail
                      is cut triangular, like a bermuda rig. This is the rig on my
                      daughter's Heron, and it has much to recommend it - essentially
                      a bermuda-like rig, except that the spars are much smaller and
                      there is no need for sail tracks to raise the mainsail. The
                      Heron's mast is stayed, and I doubt that an unstayed gunter would
                      be feasible.

                      I would be interested to hear Bolger's objection to the gunter.

                      Bruce Fountain
                      Systems Engineer
                      Union Switch & Signal
                      Perth, Western Australia



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • graeme19121984
                      ... It s got the speed. It s got the looks. But ... Otter might ... Both Bruce and Karl have posted that the designed rig is Cat- Schooner with a Jigger .
                      Message 10 of 14 , Mar 2, 2005
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                        > was always very fast compared with other boats at Messabouts.
                        It's got the speed. It's got the looks. But

                        > If Bolger had just reorganised the rig a little, the original
                        Otter might
                        > have been much more popular and I rather wonder why he didn't.

                        Both Bruce and Karl have posted that the designed rig is "Cat-
                        Schooner with a Jigger".

                        I've now got an impression of what a "Jigger" is.

                        Since little I've always been favourably visually impressed by the
                        S C H O O N E R rig. For confirmed Bolgeristas, I'm betting the rig
                        of Otter is not too visually off-putting. I'd reckon Mr Bolger had
                        his reasons. I'm looking forward to seeing an Otter built with this
                        rig, or just the sailplan. (I don't much like the look of the stick-
                        up rig shown in Reuel Parker's *The Sharpie Book* at page 107 - an
                        added mast stuck in the bow and leaning forward.)

                        > Sheryl Crowe indeed!
                        Gavin this reference eludes me? Is Sheryl a looker as in "good", or
                        a looker? The gazed or gazer?
                        graeme
                      • graeme19121984
                        ... In the gaff the yard extends along the head of the sail. In the gunter the yard extends along the upper (perhaps half) luff. The luff in way of the yard is
                        Message 11 of 14 , Mar 2, 2005
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                          --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@h...> wrote:
                          > >mainmast is a high peaked gaff, not a gunter.
                          >
                          > This could easily be true, I am not sure I know the difference.

                          In the gaff the yard extends along the head of the sail.

                          In the gunter the yard extends along the upper (perhaps half) luff.
                          The luff in way of the yard is fastened (laced) to the yard. The
                          luff may be straight, as in a marconi, making for a triangular sail;
                          or it may have a slight angle in way of the yard making for a
                          quadrilateral sail. With the sail rigged the yard stands verticle,
                          or nearly so. The yard is referred to as 'yard' or 'upper mast', but
                          not 'gaff'. As sail is reefed the yard Remains Verticle and slides
                          down behind the mast ( there are quite a few ways of rigging this -
                          one involving a throat halyard and peak halyard similar to the gaff
                          rig; another involving a peak halyard sliding on a wire span fitted
                          full length along the fore of the yard fastened near the ends of the
                          yard, and also having a throat halyard).


                          In boats to 30ft or so the gunter has a number of benificial
                          attributes, some of which are: it can be peaked up nearly as good as
                          a marconi making it weatherly; the weight of the yard overcomes
                          binding of the sail to the mast, helping the sail down when reefing;
                          weight aloft is reduced when reefed, as the yard is lowered; and the
                          short spars can be stowed within the boat length when the rig is
                          struck. Others could probably add further.

                          Many boating and sailing books I have read give the gunter rig a
                          good recommendation for small boats. I have a feeling that PCB does
                          not like the gunter, even strongly dislikes it. I think I might of
                          seen it alluded to that he has explained why, but I've not read it.
                          Graeme
                        • Gavin Atkin
                          ... the ... rig ... this ... 107 - an ... The original Otter is very different to either a traditional schooner or a stickup. You ll have to come to your own
                          Message 12 of 14 , Mar 3, 2005
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                            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984"
                            <graeme19121984@y...> wrote:


                            > Since little I've always been favourably visually impressed by
                            the
                            > S C H O O N E R rig. For confirmed Bolgeristas, I'm betting the
                            rig
                            > of Otter is not too visually off-putting. I'd reckon Mr Bolger had
                            > his reasons. I'm looking forward to seeing an Otter built with
                            this
                            > rig, or just the sailplan. (I don't much like the look of the stick-
                            > up rig shown in Reuel Parker's *The Sharpie Book* at page
                            107 - an
                            > added mast stuck in the bow and leaning forward.)

                            The original Otter is very different to either a traditional schooner
                            or a stickup. You'll have to come to your own conclusions.
                            Beholders and all that. For myself I'm mildly surprised that the
                            Otter sails as well as it apparently does - surely there are just too
                            many sails involved.

                            > > Sheryl Crowe indeed!
                            > Gavin this reference eludes me?

                            This was a trivial reply to a trivial reference to a previous mail
                            about light dories. If it didn't make you smile there's no need to
                            give it any more brain time. But like many trivial things I decided
                            to waste time reappraising my view of Sheryl Crowe's
                            appearance. There's no doubt that she's a striking and beautiful
                            youngish songster. Wonder if she likes boats? ;-))

                            Seriously, though, googling on her name brought me to this:
                            http://itsb.ucsf.edu/~vcr/Skinnies2003LizTaylor.html

                            That pic of Bush senior makes you think, doesn't it? I'm always
                            struck by the sun damaged skin on parade at my local sailing
                            club. So take care...

                            Gavin
                          • Gavin Atkin
                            ... the ... rig ... this ... 107 - an ... The original Otter is very different to either a traditional schooner or a stickup. You ll have to come to your own
                            Message 13 of 14 , Mar 3, 2005
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                              --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984"
                              <graeme19121984@y...> wrote:


                              > Since little I've always been favourably visually impressed by
                              the
                              > S C H O O N E R rig. For confirmed Bolgeristas, I'm betting the
                              rig
                              > of Otter is not too visually off-putting. I'd reckon Mr Bolger had
                              > his reasons. I'm looking forward to seeing an Otter built with
                              this
                              > rig, or just the sailplan. (I don't much like the look of the stick-
                              > up rig shown in Reuel Parker's *The Sharpie Book* at page
                              107 - an
                              > added mast stuck in the bow and leaning forward.)

                              The original Otter is very different to either a traditional schooner
                              or a stickup. You'll have to come to your own conclusions.
                              Beholders and all that. For myself I'm mildly surprised that the
                              Otter sails as well as it apparently does - surely there are just too
                              many sails involved.

                              > > Sheryl Crowe indeed!
                              > Gavin this reference eludes me?

                              This was a trivial reply to a trivial reference to a previous mail
                              about light dories. If it didn't make you smile there's no need to
                              give it any more brain time. But like many trivial things I decided
                              to waste time reappraising my view of Sheryl Crowe's
                              appearance. There's no doubt that she's a striking and beautiful
                              youngish songster. Wonder if she likes boats? ;-))

                              Seriously, though, googling on her name brought me to this:
                              http://itsb.ucsf.edu/~vcr/Skinnies2003LizTaylor.html

                              That pic of Bush senior makes you think, doesn't it? I'm always
                              struck by the sun damaged skin on parade at my local sailing
                              club. So take care...

                              Gavin
                            • John Bell
                              BWII is a Solent lug. ... From: Nels To: Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 10:31 AM Subject: [bolger] Re: Otter
                              Message 14 of 14 , Mar 3, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                BWII is a Solent lug.

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Nels" <arvent@...>
                                To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 10:31 AM
                                Subject: [bolger] Re: Otter


                                >
                                >
                                > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@y...>
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Thanks for your help Bruce.
                                > >
                                > > >The center mast is double, like a gunter
                                > > I think I understand what the as-designed rig is more or less like,
                                > > however I'm surprised to see this. I had gained an impression that
                                > > PCB did not have a good opinion of the gunter rig.
                                > >
                                > BIRDWATCHER II has a gunter rig and PCB says BW is his favorite
                                > design. I think the version he uses is pretty foolproof in smaller
                                > sized sails, but not sure if anyone actually has a BWI with that rig.
                                > The original offers the Leg-o'-mutton with sprit boom.
                                >
                                > Cheers, Nels
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Bolger rules!!!
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                                > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
                                > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
                                > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
                                (978) 282-1349
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