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RE: [bolger] Re: Bolgers Final Word On The Design Database.

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  • David Romasco
    I second this. It could only increase PB&Fs income and may well reduce some of the inquiries they deal with. It would also, I m sure, furnish endless topics
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 1, 2002
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      I second this. It could only increase PB&Fs income and may well reduce
      some of the inquiries they deal with. It would also, I'm sure, furnish
      endless topics of discussion for this group.

      David Romasco

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Philip Smith [mailto:pbs@...]
      Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 7:28 PM
      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Bolgers Final Word On The Design Database.

      I *think* that Peter is correct. I recommend that you contact PB&F and
      say
      something like, "I'd like to keep a centralized list (database) of your
      designs that have been published. I plan to include the information in
      the
      current database. I promise not to pester you other than asking for your

      design number, the status of the design (study only or completed design)

      and your current price and the number of sheets of drawings and
      instructions for the designs. If this is not OK with you please tell me
      and
      I'll stop immediately."

      Providing a centralized location for all this information should be good

      for PB&F and the PB Fans (us.) Perhaps once the Yahoo database system
      gets
      more sophistocated or perhaps now if it can do it, one of the fields in
      the
      database will be a URL to a file of remarks, war stories, building moans

      and triumphs and sailing pictures of each particular design.

      I hope that PB&F say "OK."

      Phil Smith





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      Bolger rules!!!
      - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
      - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
      - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
      - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
      01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
      - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
      <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Stuart Crawford
      The message I picked out of the fax, was that while he would like a database, he would also like to maintain full control of it himself. Maybe if someone
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 1, 2002
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        The message I picked out of the fax, was that while he would like a
        database, he would also like to maintain full control of it himself.
        Maybe if someone wanted to keep a private database and answer the price
        enquiry's themselves, PCB wouldn't feel his time being impinged on.

        Stuart Crawford
        New Zealand

        on 2/2/02 12:18 PM, Mark Albanese at marka@... wrote:

        > Rich, I read the reply differently, too.
        > A comprehensive database / web site is obviously something
        > he'd like to do himself.
        >
        > But I thought the original idea here was only to list the
        > designs, what they cost and where to get them.
        > That does not conflict with the spirit anything he said.
        >
        > I worked about a decade as a database designer before
        > getting tired of spending all day in front of a computer. If
        > you'd rather, I'll take on the table in Bolger2.
        >
        > Mark
        >
        > rmdeming wrote:
        >>
        >> Okay Folks, Rich here...
        >>
        >> I faxed Bolger last night as promised and explained my
        >> position. I
        >> begged forgiveness, but explained why someone suggested it
        >> and why I
        >> started it (the database). Here is Bolger's response (a
        >> fax that
        >> showed up this morning). Here is what the first fax said
        >> verbatim;
        >>
        >> Dear Mr. Deming,
        >> Sorry about the slow response. We have a complete and
        >> fairly orderly
        >> archive of five hundred plus designs in chronology and
        >> detail (many
        >> of the 1950's designs are lost).
        >> The archive is not useful to anyone but us until we finish
        >> preparing
        >> it with comments and study plans, which we are doing as
        >> fast as we
        >> can, which is not very fast on account of interesting new
        >> designs and
        >> money to be made and the maddening distractions like the
        >> SNAME
        >> licenseing plot.
        >> In the meantime, publication of bits and pieces would
        >> involve us in
        >> endless requests for more information about this or that,
        >> using time
        >> we should be spending either doing the catalog right or
        >> producing new
        >> designs that need doing.
        >> Thanks for your interest in helping us. Please be patient
        >> for a
        >> little longer.
        >> Sincerely,
        >> PB
        >>
        >> Rich back...There was a second page, a bit more personal,
        >> that adds
        >> that his books have designs for people who want more of
        >> his work (75
        >> Designs & 103 Rigs). Also, look to MAIB for his articles
        >> or to Payson
        >> for his plans and books.
        >>
        >> While he did not say STOP, I think that it is implied. So
        >> here is
        >> what I do as the database owner:
        >> 1)I will no longer add or modify or support the
        >> database. The
        >> Groups Moderator has the same rights as me for this
        >> database, so I
        >> give him the chance to take over if he so chooses. He is
        >> after all
        >> the boss around here and deserves to have that option.
        >> 2) If I do not hear from the Group Moderator within
        >> a couple of
        >> days, I am going to delete the whole thing. If anyone
        >> wants the list
        >> of designs that are currently there, you can export the
        >> list to you
        >> hard drive. Get it now while you can.
        >>
        >> I apoligize to the group for having started this and then
        >> bailing,
        >> but I feel there is a moral responsibility here (with a
        >> little fore-
        >> thought on my part I would not have started it) and that
        >> is to
        >> respect Bolger's wishes (this group would not exist if it
        >> weren't for
        >> him) and wait for the official catalog of his designs.
        >>
        >> Rich...
        >> kinda hard to smile right now, but I'll try.
        >>
        >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        >> ADVERTISEMENT
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Bolger rules!!!
        >> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging
        >> dead horses
        >> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and
        >> punctuate
        >> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip
        >> all you like
        >> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
        >> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
        >> - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >>
        >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
        >> of Service.
        >
        >
        > Bolger rules!!!
        > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
        > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
        > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
        > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
        > Fax: (978) 282-1349
        > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
      • bgbeck55
        ... of ... list ... As the one who suggested it, I say go ahead and dump it Rich. The idea was to provide a counter-balance to CSB s unauthorized sales; to
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 1, 2002
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          --- In bolger@y..., "rmdeming" <bcsb@h...> wrote:
          > Rich back...
          > 1)I will no longer add or modify or support the database. The
          > Groups Moderator has the same rights as me for this database, so I
          > give him the chance to take over if he so chooses. He is after all
          > the boss around here and deserves to have that option.
          > 2) If I do not hear from the Group Moderator within a couple
          of
          > days, I am going to delete the whole thing. If anyone wants the
          list
          > of designs that are currently there, you can export the list to you
          > hard drive. Get it now while you can.
          >
          > Rich...
          > kinda hard to smile right now, but I'll try.

          As the one who suggested it, I say go ahead and dump it Rich. The
          idea was to provide a counter-balance to CSB's unauthorized sales; to
          provide the answer to the question of "How much does PCB&F charge for
          those plans?." So far, only one of the nine designs sold by CSB has
          ever been entered, "Fishcat". "Micro", "Micro Trawler", Long
          Micro","Pirogue", "Brick","Big Dory","Martha
          Jane","Oldshoe",or "Idaho" aren't there.
          So go ahead Rich, delete it.
        • porcupinefysh
          A modest proposal: If you look at the implied meaning behind the various communications from PB&F, you could say that they don t want *any* outside discussion
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 2, 2002
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            A modest proposal:

            If you look at the implied meaning behind the various communications
            from PB&F, you could say that they don't want *any* outside
            discussion of their designs. They especially suspect forums that
            encourage alterations to existing plans or inappropriate uses for
            specific designs. As this particular list spends a large part of its
            bandwidth doing just that, what is to be done? Perhaps the list
            should simply be shut down, its members disband, and no further
            mention of Phil Bolger or his boats made, either on the Internet or
            elsewhere, except as sanctioned by the designer himself or his
            designated spokesperson(s).

            Of course, to really make certain denizens of Gloucester, MA, happy,
            it would be advisable to also remove from the World Wide Web all
            sites concerning the construction and operation of Bolger-designed
            boats, plus all associated hyperlinks. Any reviews, photos or
            comments in traditional media except those of PCB, SA, or their
            lawyer should be extirpated. All archives and libraries should be
            cleansed of offending references. Living memory should be
            exterminated, perhaps with the use of Pavlovian conditioning.
            Eventually, the whole Phil Bolger phenomena will be forgotten, along
            with the designer himself, much to his own satisfaction. Foolish
            dreamers asking questions and buying plans will no longer be able to
            annoy him.

            And when, ages from now, some future archeologist find some strange
            looking square boat scribbled on a scrap of ancient drafting paper,
            the entire digging party will shrug. That night, needing kindling for
            their fire, the paper will be burned. All around the campsite,the
            forest will ring with the mellifluous songs of the three-eyed tree
            worms....

            ;o)

            porky

            --- In bolger@y..., "rmdeming" <bcsb@h...> wrote:
            > Okay Folks, Rich here...
            >
            > I faxed Bolger last night as promised and explained my position....
          • ellengaestboatbuildingcom
            Eureka! Finally a fresh perspective on the silliness of it all!Let us make lists,boats,idle chatter,share ideas,dreams,eat,drink and be merry to our hearts
            Message 5 of 14 , Feb 2, 2002
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              Eureka! Finally a fresh perspective on the silliness of it all!Let us
              make lists,boats,idle chatter,share ideas,dreams,eat,drink and be
              merry to our hearts content! All of it will,one day,seem very
              trivial indeed..........
              Thank you "porky" for the skull numbing relief!
              Sincerely,
              Peter Lenihan





              --- In bolger@y..., "porcupinefysh" <porcupine@d...> wrote:

              > And when, ages from now, some future archeologist find some strange
              > looking square boat scribbled on a scrap of ancient drafting paper,
              > the entire digging party will shrug. That night, needing kindling
              for
              > their fire, the paper will be burned. All around the campsite,the
              > forest will ring with the mellifluous songs of the three-eyed tree
              > worms....
              >
              > ;o)
              >
              > porky
            • rmdeming
              ... for ... Well, if nothing else good has come form this thread, the shear delight of reading the posts, especially Porkys, has been worth it. I am in
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 2, 2002
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                > And when, ages from now, some future archeologist find some strange
                > looking square boat scribbled on a scrap of ancient drafting paper,
                > the entire digging party will shrug. That night, needing kindling
                for
                > their fire, the paper will be burned. All around the campsite,the
                > forest will ring with the mellifluous songs of the three-eyed tree
                > worms....

                Well, if nothing else good has come form this thread, the shear
                delight of reading the posts, especially Porkys, has been worth it. I
                am in agreement that the majority of the replys want the list to
                stand and to be added to. So, like a good politician, who says one
                thing and does the opposite, I will not delete it. But....this Groups
                Moderator still has that option.

                I ask only two more things, one that we only include reference to
                PB&F & Payson in the DB and TWO that this thread end, die, never to
                be heard from again (unless porky wants to write some more ;-)and
                that we talk about some boats again.

                Rich
                smiling once again because of porkys post
              • brucehallman
                ... Like the rest of you, I am a huge fan of Phil Bolger, and even though he may not like it, he *is* a celebrity of sorts. We should not pester him, but we
                Message 7 of 14 , Feb 2, 2002
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                  --- In bolger@y..., "rmdeming" <bcsb@h...> wrote:
                  > > And when, ages from now, some future archeologist find some

                  Like the rest of you, I am a huge fan of Phil Bolger, and even though
                  he may not like it, he *is* a celebrity of sorts. We should not
                  pester him, but we should also not stop enjoying his designs. I.E.,
                  studying, dreaming, writing, talking, [and when divorce doesn't
                  impede], building & using them!

                  While I have great respect for the man; Phil Bolger does not have the
                  right to stop us from praising, criticizing and cataloging his
                  designs.

                  After all, many, if not most, of his designs were published publicly
                  in books and magazines by Mr. Bolger. He has placed them in the
                  public eye all by himself.

                  I think that the Bolger Group should create a Bolger FAQ.

                  Item one should be: Do not pester Mr. Bolger (let him design more
                  boats in peace!) Items two through seven hundred, could include a
                  database of reviews of his boat designs, kind of like a
                  bibliography. I see it as essentially a journalistic/scholarly
                  act, "fair use" so to speak. Though I hope he would appreciate and
                  support this; I do not believe that celebrities have the right to
                  quash the study, review and reporting of their work which they have
                  placed in the public's eye. I think that a Libertarian would
                  understand.

                  Bruce Hallman
                • Jeff Blunck
                  Two years ago I purchased Tennessee plans from PB&F for $75.00. In the same letter, he priced the Dakota and Wyoming at $300.00 each and the Illinois at
                  Message 8 of 14 , Feb 5, 2002
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                    Two years ago I purchased Tennessee plans from PB&F for $75.00.

                    In the same letter, he priced the Dakota and Wyoming at $300.00 each and the Illinois at $400.00.

                    Jeff



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