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Re: [bolger] Don't confuse 'galvanised' with 'zinc plated'

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  • Luke S
    Yes Bill, my father bought a flat bottomed dinghy that had been converted to a cabin boat (dont ask, it was cheap) some years ago and made the mistake of using
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 2, 2002
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      Yes Bill, my father bought a flat bottomed dinghy that had been converted to
      a cabin boat (dont ask, it was cheap) some years ago and made the mistake of
      using a zinc coated hardware screw to repair a small area. I think it lasted
      three months and became a rust filled hole .
      Hot dip galvanized is the only type to consider. The iron boatnails of the
      past were soft iron (hand wrought iron), it rusted faster than mild steel
      but once it had a good surface coating of rust it stopped. Im presuming
      these iron nails were used after they had developed a surface of rust, i.e.
      oxidised .

      I might just make a test stick with several varieties of nails/screws in it
      and tow it behind the boat for a time, see which lasts the longest.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Bill Samson" <Bill.Samson@...>
      To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 6:45 AM
      Subject: [bolger] Don't confuse 'galvanised' with 'zinc plated'


      > Most zinc coated screws you get in DIY stores have an incredibly thin
      layer of zinc on them - probably sprayed on or deposited electrolytically
      <sp?>. This'll last no time at all in a marine environment, although it'll
      do well enough for home and garden use. (Been there - had to drill the
      bl**dy things out after a year or so, when they'd rusted solid and were
      weeping rust stains all over the place!)
      >
      > Proper galvanising is a 'hot dip' process, where the objects are dipped
      into molten zinc and pick up a really thick coating that'll last for many
      years. Amazingly enough, if the coating is scratched through to the iron
      underneath, the zinc migrates to 'heal' the scratch! Roofing nails are
      usually hot-dip galvanised. Zinc-plated screws are not.
      >
      > All the underwater fittings on my Chebacco are hot-dip galvanised and 6
      years later are showing no signs of corrosion.
      >
      > Of course, if you want to go the REALLY cheap way, you can try Chinese
      'galvanising' - the nails are dipped in hot pitch to get a good waterproof
      coating before being used.
      >
      > The Vikings use iron boatnails on their ships. Not sure what kind of iron
      it is (- I'm no metallurgist -) but it seems pretty resistant to corrosion.
      >
      > Bill
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > Bolger rules!!!
      > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
      > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
      > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
      > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
      01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
      > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
    • David Allen
      anyone familiar with the hot dip process? in particular, can I take old anodes, melt them down and dip iron parts for use at sea? da
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 2, 2002
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        anyone familiar with the hot dip process? in particular, can I take old
        anodes, melt them down and dip iron parts for use at sea?

        da
      • Chuck Leinweber
        David: I know just enough to be dangerous. That never stopped me from shooting off my mouth before though. I think you would have to acid dip the metal to
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 2, 2002
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          David:

          I know just enough to be dangerous. That never stopped me from shooting off my mouth before though. I think you would have to acid dip the metal to remove any oil/scale/rust then apply the proper flux before dipping.

          Chuck

          anyone familiar with the hot dip process? in particular, can I take old
          anodes, melt them down and dip iron parts for use at sea?

          da






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • vexatious2001
          ... shooting off my mouth before though. I think you would have to acid dip the metal to remove any oil/scale/rust then apply the proper flux before dipping.
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 2, 2002
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            --- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
            > David:
            >
            > I know just enough to be dangerous. That never stopped me from
            shooting off my mouth before though. I think you would have to acid
            dip the metal to remove any oil/scale/rust then apply the proper flux
            before dipping.
            >
            > Chuck
            >

            Oh, Chuck, you aint half as dangerous as I am!

            I am looking at an old Popular Mechanics article
            entitled (and I kid-you-not) "Hot-Dip Galvanizing
            in Your Own Kitchen" (sure to make you popular with
            the wife.)

            To summarize, after all paint or previous galvanizing
            is removed (burning suggested), the the items are boiled
            in a solution of sodium carbonate (two tablespoons per quart
            of water; boil 5 to 10 minutes; season to taste); then rinse
            in warm water and dry (hair dryer); do not touch with bare
            hands or ya'll get oil on 'em; Then submerge the part
            in hydrochloric acid (borrow from neighbors?) for an hour
            or so until the item has a uniform grey (gray?) color; then
            rinse thouroughly with cold water and dry (hair dryer again)
            Since the metal will start to oxidize almost immediately,
            you should have your pot of molten zinc all prepared( melts
            @ 787 degrees F but the author recommends 820 degrees F)
            Skim scum off top of zinc, sprinkle a little sal ammoniac on
            the zinc, and to quote here, "plunge" the part into the
            zinc. Leave part in the zinc until it is as hot as the
            zinc (remember the 820 degrees?). When the part is ready
            to come out, skim the scum and do the sal ammoniac again,
            reach into the zinc (with tongs, he says), grab the dang
            thing and pull it out, let the zinc drip a moment, and
            plunge (he likes that word) into cold water.

            The author also mentions poision fumes and ventilation,
            but as my wife will have long-since killed me for galvanizing
            her kitchen, I don't really see the point.

            Bye

            Max
          • Luke S
            The days when Popular Mechanics was worth reading. Build your own backyard nuclear reactor , that sort of thing. ... From: vexatious2001
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 2, 2002
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              The days when Popular Mechanics was worth reading. "Build your own backyard
              nuclear reactor " , that sort of thing.
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "vexatious2001" <cadbury@...>
              To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 2:55 PM
              Subject: [bolger] Re: Hot dipped zinc


              > --- In bolger@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
              > > David:
              > >
              > > I know just enough to be dangerous. That never stopped me from
              > shooting off my mouth before though. I think you would have to acid
              > dip the metal to remove any oil/scale/rust then apply the proper flux
              > before dipping.
              > >
              > > Chuck
              > >
              >
              > Oh, Chuck, you aint half as dangerous as I am!
              >
              > I am looking at an old Popular Mechanics article
              > entitled (and I kid-you-not) "Hot-Dip Galvanizing
              > in Your Own Kitchen" (sure to make you popular with
              > the wife.)
              >
              > To summarize, after all paint or previous galvanizing
              > is removed (burning suggested), the the items are boiled
              > in a solution of sodium carbonate (two tablespoons per quart
              > of water; boil 5 to 10 minutes; season to taste); then rinse
              > in warm water and dry (hair dryer); do not touch with bare
              > hands or ya'll get oil on 'em; Then submerge the part
              > in hydrochloric acid (borrow from neighbors?) for an hour
              > or so until the item has a uniform grey (gray?) color; then
              > rinse thouroughly with cold water and dry (hair dryer again)
              > Since the metal will start to oxidize almost immediately,
              > you should have your pot of molten zinc all prepared( melts
              > @ 787 degrees F but the author recommends 820 degrees F)
              > Skim scum off top of zinc, sprinkle a little sal ammoniac on
              > the zinc, and to quote here, "plunge" the part into the
              > zinc. Leave part in the zinc until it is as hot as the
              > zinc (remember the 820 degrees?). When the part is ready
              > to come out, skim the scum and do the sal ammoniac again,
              > reach into the zinc (with tongs, he says), grab the dang
              > thing and pull it out, let the zinc drip a moment, and
              > plunge (he likes that word) into cold water.
              >
              > The author also mentions poision fumes and ventilation,
              > but as my wife will have long-since killed me for galvanizing
              > her kitchen, I don't really see the point.
              >
              > Bye
              >
              > Max
              >
              >
              >
              > Bolger rules!!!
              > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
              > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
              > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
              > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
              01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
              > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
            • jhkohnen@boat-links.com
              The Vikings would have used wrought iron for fastenings and fittings. Wrought iron is quite resistant to corrosion, the process of its manufacture involves
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 4, 2002
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                The Vikings would have used wrought iron for fastenings and fittings.
                Wrought iron is quite resistant to corrosion, the process of its
                manufacture involves lots of pounding (to drive out impurites I think, but
                I really don't know) that distributes bits of slag throughout the metal,
                and these inclusions limit rust penetration. Unfortunately, you just can't
                find true wrought iron these days. I talked to a fellow who has a "wrought
                iron" business a while back, he makes railing sand screens and what-not,
                and he didn't even know what real wrought iron is. :o( He uses mild steel.

                On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 20:45:25 -0000, Bill Samson wrote:
                > ...
                > The Vikings use iron boatnails on their ships. Not sure what kind of
                > iron it is (- I'm no metallurgist -) but it seems pretty resistant to
                > corrosion.


                --
                John <jkohnen@...>
                http://www.boat-links.com/
                Why should we take advice on sex from the Pope?
                If he knows anything about it, he shouldn't. <G. B. Shaw>
              • Stuart Crawford
                Wrought iron comes out of swamps. I don t know any more than that though. Stuart Crawford New Zealand
                Message 7 of 9 , Jan 4, 2002
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                  Wrought iron comes out of swamps. I don't know any more than that though.

                  Stuart Crawford
                  New Zealand

                  on 4/1/02 9:56 PM, jhkohnen@... at jhkohnen@... wrote:

                  > The Vikings would have used wrought iron for fastenings and fittings.
                  > Wrought iron is quite resistant to corrosion, the process of its
                  > manufacture involves lots of pounding (to drive out impurites I think, but
                  > I really don't know) that distributes bits of slag throughout the metal,
                  > and these inclusions limit rust penetration. Unfortunately, you just can't
                  > find true wrought iron these days. I talked to a fellow who has a "wrought
                  > iron" business a while back, he makes railing sand screens and what-not,
                  > and he didn't even know what real wrought iron is. :o( He uses mild steel.
                  >
                  > On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 20:45:25 -0000, Bill Samson wrote:
                  >> ...
                  >> The Vikings use iron boatnails on their ships. Not sure what kind of
                  >> iron it is (- I'm no metallurgist -) but it seems pretty resistant to
                  >> corrosion.
                  >
                • Luke S
                  Hand wrought iron is full of silacious slag and was smelted with charcoal, clean. The slag is what gives wrought iron its timber like grain. Thats the major
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jan 4, 2002
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                    Hand wrought iron is full of silacious slag and was smelted with charcoal,
                    clean. The slag is what gives wrought iron its timber like grain. Thats the
                    major visible difference between wrought iron and mild steel. Steel has a
                    crystalline structure, no grain at all.
                    Wrought iron from the industrial age was smelted with coal which led to the
                    inclusion of sulphur in the iron, not desirable at all. I have a pile of
                    genuine wrought iron from that era, when its cleaned bright it rusts
                    readily, but once it has a surface coating of rust the rusting process slows
                    down. I forge for a hobby and I might make some iron nails to experiment.
                    Where does one get hundred year old wrought iron ? Buggy axles, thats where.
                    And yes, the "wrought Iron" of today is mild steel not iron at all.
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: <jhkohnen@...>
                    To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:56 PM
                    Subject: Re: [bolger] Don't confuse 'galvanised' with 'zinc plated'


                    > The Vikings would have used wrought iron for fastenings and fittings.
                    > Wrought iron is quite resistant to corrosion, the process of its
                    > manufacture involves lots of pounding (to drive out impurites I think, but
                    > I really don't know) that distributes bits of slag throughout the metal,
                    > and these inclusions limit rust penetration. Unfortunately, you just can't
                    > find true wrought iron these days. I talked to a fellow who has a "wrought
                    > iron" business a while back, he makes railing sand screens and what-not,
                    > and he didn't even know what real wrought iron is. :o( He uses mild steel.
                    >
                    > On Wed, 2 Jan 2002 20:45:25 -0000, Bill Samson wrote:
                    > > ...
                    > > The Vikings use iron boatnails on their ships. Not sure what kind of
                    > > iron it is (- I'm no metallurgist -) but it seems pretty resistant to
                    > > corrosion.
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > John <jkohnen@...>
                    > http://www.boat-links.com/
                    > Why should we take advice on sex from the Pope?
                    > If he knows anything about it, he shouldn't. <G. B. Shaw>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Bolger rules!!!
                    > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                    > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
                    > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
                    > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
                    01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                    > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
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