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Re: [bolger] Illinois!!!

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  • Chuck Leinweber
    David: And you can always tow the LSME behind her. Chuck ... From: David Ryan To: bolger@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 4:54 PM Subject:
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 1, 2002
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      David:

      And you can always tow the LSME behind her.

      Chuck
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: David Ryan
      To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 4:54 PM
      Subject: [bolger] Illinois!!!


      FBBB --

      At the end of Beuhler's "Backyard Boat Building" he hints that in the
      boat/no boat equation, that sailing may be less practical than
      motoring. My own disdain for motors has two roots:

      1) It's a lot easier/cheaper to make and maintain you own sails and
      oars than your own engine. For the way I use small boats, a motor is
      simply an added expense and hassle with no meaningful return. The
      boat/no boat calculus dictates my scooner has no engine. Whatever
      status or romance accompanies that is incidental.

      2) In any imaginings of long ocean passages, sails just seem more reliable.

      However, my "discovery" of Phil Bolger and the East Coast's great
      inner waterways have turn my preconceptions of what a boat needs to
      be, or should be on their head. I have discovered sharpies -- cheap,
      fast to build, fun to sail and ideal for my circumstances.

      Now, rather than reading the classifieds in the back of "Sail"
      magazine, and dreaming of which boat I could buy if I sold my house,
      I draw up realistic balances of time and money and intentions and
      hone in on real "on -the-water vacation home" that I could build
      myself without giving up my day job or my equity.

      Fantasies of full-keeled seaboats no longer dominate my day dreams.
      Instead it's a giant sharpie anchored at some out of the way location
      where I can enjoy the company of my wife and daughter and dog, and my
      own smug satisfaction at having built our vessel myself. The next
      "casualty" of these realizations may well be the sailing. As I study
      the plans for the Illinois, it occurs to me that she is much more
      boat for the money anything of comparable capacities meant to be
      sailed.

      Any boat of her size, sail or power, would need a similar power
      plant. But any sail boat build to similar requirements would likely
      spend much of her time under power. Why spend all that money on spars
      and canvas and line when for her purpose they are nearly an
      affectation? Why accommodate the ability to sail at the expense of
      roominess or performance under power?

      For me, the answer is romance; and I'm never one to value romance
      lightly. But actually being on the water, in a boat that makes being
      there absolutely pleasant is romantic too -- perhaps more romantic
      than dreaming about it.

      YIBB,

      David


      C.E.P.
      134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
      New York, New York 10001
      http://www.crumblingempire.com
      (212) 247-0296

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      Bolger rules!!!
      - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
      - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
      - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
      - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
      - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • David Ryan
      Yes, my point exactly. With a boat like the Illinois you could enjoy your sailing without having it ruining your time on the water! Of course such logic is
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 1, 2002
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        Yes, my point exactly. With a boat like the Illinois you could enjoy
        your sailing without having it ruining your time on the water!

        Of course such logic is dangerous. Too much of it and you end up
        deciding you don't need a boat at all :-(

        YIBB,

        David


        >And you can always tow the LSME behind her.
        >
        >Chuck
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: David Ryan
        > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 4:54 PM
        > Subject: [bolger] Illinois!!!
        >
        >
        > FBBB --
        >
        > At the end of Beuhler's "Backyard Boat Building" he hints that in the
        > boat/no boat equation, that sailing may be less practical than
        > motoring. My own disdain for motors has two roots:
        >
        > 1) It's a lot easier/cheaper to make and maintain you own sails and
        > oars than your own engine. For the way I use small boats, a motor is
        > simply an added expense and hassle with no meaningful return. The
        > boat/no boat calculus dictates my scooner has no engine. Whatever
        > status or romance accompanies that is incidental.
        >
        > 2) In any imaginings of long ocean passages, sails just seem more reliable.
        >
        > However, my "discovery" of Phil Bolger and the East Coast's great
        > inner waterways have turn my preconceptions of what a boat needs to
        > be, or should be on their head. I have discovered sharpies -- cheap,
        > fast to build, fun to sail and ideal for my circumstances.
        >
        > Now, rather than reading the classifieds in the back of "Sail"
        > magazine, and dreaming of which boat I could buy if I sold my house,
        > I draw up realistic balances of time and money and intentions and
        > hone in on real "on -the-water vacation home" that I could build
        > myself without giving up my day job or my equity.
        >
        > Fantasies of full-keeled seaboats no longer dominate my day dreams.
        > Instead it's a giant sharpie anchored at some out of the way location
        > where I can enjoy the company of my wife and daughter and dog, and my
        > own smug satisfaction at having built our vessel myself. The next
        > "casualty" of these realizations may well be the sailing. As I study
        > the plans for the Illinois, it occurs to me that she is much more
        > boat for the money anything of comparable capacities meant to be
        > sailed.
        >
        > Any boat of her size, sail or power, would need a similar power
        > plant. But any sail boat build to similar requirements would likely
        > spend much of her time under power. Why spend all that money on spars
        > and canvas and line when for her purpose they are nearly an
        > affectation? Why accommodate the ability to sail at the expense of
        > roominess or performance under power?
        >
        > For me, the answer is romance; and I'm never one to value romance
        > lightly. But actually being on the water, in a boat that makes being
        > there absolutely pleasant is romantic too -- perhaps more romantic
        > than dreaming about it.
        >
        > YIBB,
        >
        > David
        >
        >
        > C.E.P.
        > 134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
        > New York, New York 10001
        > http://www.crumblingempire.com
        > (212) 247-0296
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > ADVERTISEMENT
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Bolger rules!!!
        > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
        > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
        > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
        > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
        >MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
        > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        >
        >
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >Bolger rules!!!
        >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
        >- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
        >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
        >- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
        >MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
        >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


        C.E.P.
        134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
        New York, New York 10001
        http://www.crumblingempire.com
        (212) 247-0296
      • thomas dalzell
        Great, no sooner do we start to make some headway against the PWCs with 12 weight fly rods and torpedo nets than we have this noisy abomination to deal with:
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 1, 2002
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          Great,
          no sooner do we start to make some headway against the
          PWCs with 12 weight fly rods and torpedo nets than we
          have this noisy abomination to deal with:

          ;o)

          "However, my "discovery" of Phil Bolger and the East
          Coast's great
          inner waterways have turn my preconceptions of what a
          boat needs to
          be, or should be on their head. I have discovered
          sharpies -- cheap,
          fast to build, fun to sail and ideal for my circumstances"

          ______________________________________________________
          Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca
        • David Ryan
          I was thinking a pair of PWCs would fit very nicely in place for skiff atop Illinois! ... C.E.P. 134 West 26th St. 12th Floor New York, New York 10001
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 1, 2002
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            I was thinking a pair of PWCs would fit very nicely in place for
            skiff atop Illinois!

            >Great,
            >no sooner do we start to make some headway against the
            >PWCs with 12 weight fly rods and torpedo nets than we
            >have this noisy abomination to deal with:
            >
            >;o)
            >
            >"However, my "discovery" of Phil Bolger and the East
            >Coast's great
            >inner waterways have turn my preconceptions of what a
            >boat needs to
            >be, or should be on their head. I have discovered
            >sharpies -- cheap,
            >fast to build, fun to sail and ideal for my circumstances"
            >
            >______________________________________________________
            >Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca
            >
            >
            >Bolger rules!!!
            >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
            >- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
            >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
            >- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
            >MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
            >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


            C.E.P.
            134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
            New York, New York 10001
            http://www.crumblingempire.com
            (212) 247-0296
          • pvanderwaart
            My observation is that a sailboat is a means of travel and a powerboat is a means of getting to a destination. PHV p.s. I got a message from geocities saying
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 1, 2002
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              My observation is that a sailboat is a means of travel and a
              powerboat is a means of getting to a destination.

              PHV

              p.s. I got a message from geocities saying that the popularity of my
              site caused more traffic than they allot for free. So, if you were
              not able to view the pictures of Arava and Schorpioen, try again in a
              couple of days. The .jpg's are pretty big because I like to keep the
              fine print on the drawing visible if I can.

              "Single Eagle with traing wheels" Good line!
            • Harry W. James
              One of our thoughts around this part of the world (SE Alaska) has been that the reason to own a big power sharpie is to pack lots of small Bolger Boats from
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 1, 2002
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                One of our thoughts around this part of the world (SE Alaska) has been
                that the reason to own a big power sharpie is to pack lots of small
                Bolger Boats from anchorage to anchorage, and that's when the adventure
                begins, rowing, sailing and poking around creeks, channels, inlets and
                islands.

                Hj

                David Ryan wrote:
                >
                > FBBB --
                >
                > At the end of Beuhler's "Backyard Boat Building" he hints that in the
                > boat/no boat equation, that sailing may be less practical than
                > motoring. My own disdain for motors has two roots:
                >
                > 1) It's a lot easier/cheaper to make and maintain you own sails and
                > oars than your own engine. For the way I use small boats, a motor is
                > simply an added expense and hassle with no meaningful return. The
                > boat/no boat calculus dictates my scooner has no engine. Whatever
                > status or romance accompanies that is incidental.
                >
                > 2) In any imaginings of long ocean passages, sails just seem more reliable.
                >
                > However, my "discovery" of Phil Bolger and the East Coast's great
                > inner waterways have turn my preconceptions of what a boat needs to
                > be, or should be on their head. I have discovered sharpies -- cheap,
                > fast to build, fun to sail and ideal for my circumstances.
                >
                > Now, rather than reading the classifieds in the back of "Sail"
                > magazine, and dreaming of which boat I could buy if I sold my house,
                > I draw up realistic balances of time and money and intentions and
                > hone in on real "on -the-water vacation home" that I could build
                > myself without giving up my day job or my equity.
                >
                > Fantasies of full-keeled seaboats no longer dominate my day dreams.
                > Instead it's a giant sharpie anchored at some out of the way location
                > where I can enjoy the company of my wife and daughter and dog, and my
                > own smug satisfaction at having built our vessel myself. The next
                > "casualty" of these realizations may well be the sailing. As I study
                > the plans for the Illinois, it occurs to me that she is much more
                > boat for the money anything of comparable capacities meant to be
                > sailed.
                >
                > Any boat of her size, sail or power, would need a similar power
                > plant. But any sail boat build to similar requirements would likely
                > spend much of her time under power. Why spend all that money on spars
                > and canvas and line when for her purpose they are nearly an
                > affectation? Why accommodate the ability to sail at the expense of
                > roominess or performance under power?
                >
                > For me, the answer is romance; and I'm never one to value romance
                > lightly. But actually being on the water, in a boat that makes being
                > there absolutely pleasant is romantic too -- perhaps more romantic
                > than dreaming about it.
                >
                > YIBB,
                >
                > David
                >
                >
              • thomas dalzell
                Sam Devlin Suggested that was the reason to own a houseboat, same kind of idea. ... One of our thoughts around this part of the world
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 1, 2002
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                  Sam Devlin Suggested that was the reason to own a
                  houseboat, same kind of idea.
                  --- "Harry W. James" <welshman@...> wrote:

                  <HR>
                  <html><body>


                  <tt>
                  One of our thoughts around this part of the world (SE
                  Alaska) has been<BR>
                  that the reason to own a big power sharpie is to pack
                  lots of small<BR>

                  ______________________________________________________
                  Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca
                • Hal Lynch
                  On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 03:54 PM, David Ryan wrote: Stuff deleted ... For some time now I have noticed in publications such as MAIB that in most of the
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 2, 2002
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                    On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 03:54 PM, David Ryan wrote:

                    Stuff deleted

                    > Any boat of her size, sail or power, would need a similar power
                    > plant. But any sail boat build to similar requirements would likely
                    > spend much of her time under power. Why spend all that money on spars
                    > and canvas and line when for her purpose they are nearly an
                    > affectation? Why accommodate the ability to sail at the expense of
                    > roominess or performance under power?

                    For some time now I have noticed in publications such as MAIB that in
                    most of the articles involving sail boats with auxiliaries the auxiliary
                    seems to be used as much or more the sails. It seems to me that a
                    boat optimized for power would be more useful most of the time.

                    hal
                  • Harry W. James
                    I have commented on this before. We get a lot of transient cruisers (SE AK), many of them large (35 -55 ) auxiliary cruisers. I fly for a living and I bet I
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 2, 2002
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                      I have commented on this before. We get a lot of transient cruisers (SE
                      AK), many of them large (35'-55') auxiliary cruisers. I fly for a living
                      and I bet I see less than 5% with any sail up. It is subject for amazed
                      comment in the cockpit as in "look at that one, they have the sails up!"
                      In a normal summer I will only see 2-3 sailboats actually sailing.

                      HJ

                      Hal Lynch wrote:
                      >

                      > For some time now I have noticed in publications such as MAIB that in
                      > most of the articles involving sail boats with auxiliaries the auxiliary
                      > seems to be used as much or more the sails. It seems to me that a
                      > boat optimized for power would be more useful most of the time.
                      >
                      > hal
                      >
                      > --
                    • David Ryan
                      My wife and I have been studying the plans for this great beast and I can figure out a couple of things. 1) Is the area under the after deck reserved for
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 2, 2002
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                        My wife and I have been studying the plans for this great beast and I
                        can figure out a couple of things.

                        1) Is the area under the after deck reserved for anything in particular?

                        2) Is there any privacy for the master bed when someone passes from
                        the kitchen to the forecastle?

                        If you can read these drawing any better than I, let me know what you see.

                        YIBB,

                        David

                        >I have commented on this before. We get a lot of transient cruisers (SE
                        >AK), many of them large (35'-55') auxiliary cruisers. I fly for a living
                        >and I bet I see less than 5% with any sail up. It is subject for amazed
                        >comment in the cockpit as in "look at that one, they have the sails up!"
                        >In a normal summer I will only see 2-3 sailboats actually sailing.
                        >
                        >HJ
                        >
                        >Hal Lynch wrote:
                        >>
                        >
                        >> For some time now I have noticed in publications such as MAIB that in
                        >> most of the articles involving sail boats with auxiliaries the auxiliary
                        >> seems to be used as much or more the sails. It seems to me that a
                        >> boat optimized for power would be more useful most of the time.
                        >>
                        >> hal
                        >>
                        >> --
                        >
                        >
                        >Bolger rules!!!
                        >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                        >- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
                        >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
                        >- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
                        >MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                        >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                        C.E.P.
                        134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
                        New York, New York 10001
                        http://www.crumblingempire.com
                        (212) 247-0296
                      • sctree
                        David, I think under the aft deck is tankage? The mastersuite is below the offset deckhouse, which hangs down into the mastersuite, meaning no standing
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jan 2, 2002
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                          David,

                          I think under the aft deck is tankage?

                          The mastersuite is below the offset deckhouse, which hangs down into
                          the mastersuite, meaning no standing headroom there. The corridor to
                          get from galley forward has full headroom and it seems that a bearing
                          wall separates it from the master, carrying the port side of the
                          deckhouse down to the hull bottom.

                          Leastwise that's what I see.

                          Best way for us all to find out is, you buy the plans, build her, and
                          send photos!

                          Rick

                          --- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
                          > My wife and I have been studying the plans for this great beast and
                          I
                          > can figure out a couple of things.
                          >
                          > 1) Is the area under the after deck reserved for anything in
                          particular?
                          >
                          > 2) Is there any privacy for the master bed when someone passes from
                          > the kitchen to the forecastle?
                          >
                          > If you can read these drawing any better than I, let me know what
                          you see.
                          >
                          > YIBB,
                          >
                          > David
                          >
                          > >I have commented on this before. We get a lot of transient
                          cruisers
                          (SE
                          > >AK), many of them large (35'-55') auxiliary cruisers. I fly for a
                          living
                          > >and I bet I see less than 5% with any sail up. It is subject for
                          amazed
                          > >comment in the cockpit as in "look at that one, they have the
                          sails
                          up!"
                          > >In a normal summer I will only see 2-3 sailboats actually sailing.
                          > >
                          > >HJ
                          > >
                          > >Hal Lynch wrote:
                          > >>
                          > >
                          > >> For some time now I have noticed in publications such as MAIB
                          that in
                          > >> most of the articles involving sail boats with auxiliaries the
                          auxiliary
                          > >> seems to be used as much or more the sails. It seems to me
                          that
                          a
                          > >> boat optimized for power would be more useful most of the time.
                          > >>
                          > >> hal
                          > >>
                          > >> --
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >Bolger rules!!!
                          > >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                          > >- pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
                          > >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
                          like
                          > >- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
                          > >MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                          > >- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
                          > >
                          > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >
                          > C.E.P.
                          > 134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
                          > New York, New York 10001
                          > http://www.crumblingempire.com
                          > (212) 247-0296
                        • brucehallman
                          ... particular? The PB&F plans call that area a Hold . I imagine it as where I would store my bicycle, and other junk. ... No, I don t think there is
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jan 3, 2002
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                            --- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:

                            > 1) Is the area under the after deck reserved for anything in
                            particular?

                            The PB&F plans call that area a "Hold". I imagine it as where I
                            would store my bicycle, and other junk.


                            > 2) Is there any privacy for the master bed when someone passes from
                            > the kitchen to the forecastle?

                            No, I don't think there is anything other than perhaps a curtain.
                            The PB&F commentary describes the bunks being for visits from the
                            grandchildren, which presumably would not happen every week.
                          • David Ryan
                            ... I suppose I could reduce the size of the king bed to a queen or even a full to pick up a little room for a solid partition. And a smaller bed would make it
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jan 3, 2002
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                              >> 2) Is there any privacy for the master bed when someone passes from
                              >> the kitchen to the forecastle?
                              >
                              >No, I don't think there is anything other than perhaps a curtain.
                              >The PB&F commentary describes the bunks being for visits from the
                              >grandchildren, which presumably would not happen every week.

                              I suppose I could reduce the size of the king bed to a queen or even
                              a full to pick up a little room for a solid partition. And a smaller
                              bed would make it hard for my wife to get away from me!

                              YIBB,

                              David

                              C.E.P.
                              134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
                              New York, New York 10001
                              http://www.crumblingempire.com
                              (212) 247-0296
                            • brucehallman
                              ... The size of the bed is determined by the size of the pilot house floor [causing low headroom] from above. Though I am sure you could figure out a way to
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jan 3, 2002
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                                --- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
                                > I suppose I could reduce the size of the king bed to a queen

                                The size of the bed is determined by the size of the pilot house
                                floor [causing low headroom] from above. Though I am sure you could
                                figure out a way to make a door, it just wouldn't be full height.
                              • thomas dalzell
                                I always liked Jim Browns comments regarding the anvil chorus: They always say they wanted a really big boat, so they could carry a lot of gas, for their
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jan 3, 2002
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                                  I always liked Jim Browns comments regarding the
                                  anvil chorus: "They always say they wanted a really
                                  big boat, so they could carry a lot of gas, for their
                                  engine" Words he hears while ghosting along in his
                                  tri. Does raise the issue of the Yanmar Endevour. A
                                  35' trimaran, that outboarded it accross the Pacific.
                                  Low resistance is where it is at.

                                  >I have commented on this before. We get a lot of
                                  transient cruisers (SE<BR>
                                  AK), many of them large (35'-55') auxiliary cruisers.
                                  I fly for a living<BR>
                                  and I bet I see less than 5% with any sail up.

                                  ______________________________________________________
                                  Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca
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