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Re: Block Parts?

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  • pateson@colton.com
    White Oak has a closed cell structure. No tiny bubbles, boo, but no water in the wood either. That is one of the Major differences between the two. You could
    Message 1 of 23 , Nov 2, 2001
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      White Oak has a closed cell structure.
      No tiny bubbles, boo, but no water in the wood either.
      That is one of the Major differences between the two.

      You could "Coat" Red Oak with Epoxy, but would you
      have a "Wooden Block" or a "Red Oak Cored Epoxy Block"?

      The white oak is inherently water resistant, so if
      you were to get a Chip in the Epoxy, it would not
      absorb water the way Red Oak would.

      Doug Fir Is Great for boat building.
      Light, relatively water resistant, but not nearly
      as strong as White oak.
      Unfortunately, Vertical Grain Old Growth Doug Fir,
      is More Expensive today than Red or White Oak.

      The Reason for that is simple.
      Not to get too Political, but, part of the "Spotted Owl vs.
      Hard Working Loggers", argument, that gets left out,
      is that there just Aren't many 400 year old Douglas Fir Trees Left.
      Estimates are 2-10% of what once was.
      And fewer today than yesterday. Going, going, …..
      Weyerhouser, "Georgia" Pacific, "Louisiana" Pacific,
      Crown Z, and the Power Pole company that moved our
      family to Oregon when I was 3 in 1952, did not send
      all their People out to Oregon because it is a nice
      place to raise a family. It is, but they All came
      here because there were "Endless Forests" of 400+
      year old Douglas Fir Trees.
      Most of those companies came from where they had
      already cut most of the "Endless Forest" somewhere else.
      They came, they cut, they left, to find other "Endless Forests".
      They actually Moved entire Saw Mills, part by part,
      from Oregon, to South America and Siberia.
      The Pole Plant My Dad ran Closed in 1975.
      Way before the "Spotted Owl" thing, because Most
      of the 150 foot old growth poles were gone, even then,
      or, too expensive to exploit.
      Many of the Timber companies try to blame the
      "Spotted Owl" and "Environmentalist Tree huggers", for the
      demise of the "Timber Industry" in Oregon, and the loss of
      thousands of jobs.
      Sometimes, they call those who try to protect the few remaining
      Habitats, "Eco-terrorists". (That should "Sell" even better now.)
      There still are to be a few, mostly young, longhaired types,
      (like I was, when I had hair), that put their lives on
      the line to try to "Save" the few habitats left. They have
      been pretty much "Marginalized", and the cutting continues to
      this day, as the Corporations continue to cut the last of the last.
      It is their last ditch effort to cut the
      Few remaining Old Growth Douglas Fir trees.
      The Federal Government has, and continues to, lose millions of
      dollars every year in it's "Timber Sales" of the "last of the last"
      on "Federal Lands".
      "Federal" does Not mean "Protected". In fact it has actually always
      been the other way around. The Federal Government has always had,
      as it's number one objective, to "Get the Cut Out".
      The Fact of the matter is that The Timber Companies did their jobs
      very well.
      Nearly All the Big Trees are Gone. Many people that come to Oregon
      don't even notice. There are still Lots of Big Trees, but if you
      have never seen a "True Old Growth Forest", you literally don't know
      what is missing.
      The prices for the remaining Old Growth have skyrocketed,
      and, although not as high as it was a few years ago, still
      makes it very profitable for the Big companies to try
      to get Every Tree they can. Several Thousand dollars for a Single
      Tree, for some of the Really Big ones.
      Along with the Old Growth, much of the Habitat has also been
      destroyed.
      Western Oregon is truly a "Rain Forest", (I have ferns on my place
      that are Taller than I am) that once had as much biodiversity as
      any "Rainforest" in the World
      Most of that too, is gone.
      Much of the "Old Growth did not go into "Quality Construction",
      "Housing", or "Construction" of any kind.
      It was "Chipped" for Paper.
      Some of the timber companies have "Replanted" the
      areas, but those trees have proved to be not nearly
      the quality of the originals.
      They were developed to be fast growing, but many are disease
      prone, and Must be cut after as little as 50-60 years.
      The "Quality" of the lumber from a "Tree Farm" does not
      even come close to the 400 year old trees.
      Douglas fir "Marine Grade Plywood" has gone from "Very Good"
      to "Crap".

      It still takes 400 years to grow a 400-year-old Fir Tree.
      The genetics of the trees has also changed, and the New ones
      will not live that long.
      So, the only place there may be "Old Growth Habitat" again is
      where the little still remains.

      As much as "Big Timber" would have people believe,
      "Old Growth Douglas Fir Trees" are Not just "Another
      Crop like Corn". (And many of us know what has happened
      to even the corn crop).

      Sitka Spruce.
      Even worse. They Are Gone.
      Mostly during WW II. Many for Airplane Parts.

      Sorry for the "Rant". I think I pulled my own string.

      I am pretty close to it, but I can "See the forests for the trees".

      Pat Patteson
      Molalla, "Milltown" Oregon



      (Oh Boy! Did I miss anything, John?)
    • jhkohnen@boat-links.com
      _Somebody_ sure pulled your string Pat! A lot of the replanted fir trees never even make it to 50-60 years, if they can get a couple of 2x4s out of them
      Message 2 of 23 , Nov 3, 2001
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        _Somebody_ sure pulled your string Pat! <g>

        A lot of the replanted fir trees never even make it to 50-60 years, if they
        can get a couple of 2x4s out of them they cut 'em. :o( What do they call
        that when a corner of a board is rounded off because it's the outside of a
        tree? wain? Anyway, try finding a 2x4 in the #2 or better pile at the
        lumberyard without it. 100% of the "utility" 2x4s have that as one of the
        defects, usually two corners when they're in that pile.

        Some knowledgable folk think that some of the rain forests of the northwest
        are remnants of the last ice age that managed to survive only because they
        created their own cool, moist climate. Cut them down wholesale and they'll
        never be able to rejuvenate.

        Although there has been some enlightenment in recent years, for generations
        the only trees replanted were Douglas firs. Aside from the ill effects of
        monoculture plantations on the soil and habitat, it's also meant that
        useful woods like cedars are getting to be in short supply.

        Spruce? It was WW I when the army came in and mined all the good Sitka
        spruce in Oregon. Any reforestation was with Doug fir.

        Old growth Doug fir is a wondeful wood. It's really tragic how it's been
        squandered over the years. I've heard tell about prime fir being used for
        pallets in WW II. The story may be apocryphal, but it sounds likely given
        the way war can warp a country's mentality-- seems some procurement agent
        wanted to do his part for the war effort by providing the _very best_
        pallets he could, so he specified the highest grade of lumber for them,
        made him feel more patriotic no doubt... The there were all those wooden
        steamships and schooners built for WW I, and never used for the war effort
        or much of anything else. Most were abandoned or burned within a few years
        of the war's end.

        On Fri, 02 Nov 2001 22:43:58 -0000, Pat Pateson ranted:
        > ...
        > Unfortunately, Vertical Grain Old Growth Doug Fir,
        > is More Expensive today than Red or White Oak.
        >
        > The Reason for that is simple.
        > ...
        > Some of the timber companies have "Replanted" the
        > areas, but those trees have proved to be not nearly
        > the quality of the originals.
        > They were developed to be fast growing, but many are disease
        > prone, and Must be cut after as little as 50-60 years.
        > The "Quality" of the lumber from a "Tree Farm" does not
        > even come close to the 400 year old trees.
        > Douglas fir "Marine Grade Plywood" has gone from "Very Good"
        > to "Crap".
        > ...
        > Sitka Spruce.
        > Even worse. They Are Gone.
        > Mostly during WW II. Many for Airplane Parts.
        > ...
        > (Oh Boy! Did I miss anything, John?)

        --
        John <jkohnen@...>
        http://www.boat-links.com/
        One must have a heart of stone to read the death of Little Nell by
        Dickens without laughing. <Oscar Wilde>
      • thomas dalzell
        Speaking of WWII, think about all the wood that must have ended up in europe in the form of crating. Every heavy object, gun, bomb, etc... would have been
        Message 3 of 23 , Nov 4, 2001
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          Speaking of WWII, think about all the wood that must
          have ended up in europe in the form of crating. Every
          heavy object, gun, bomb, etc... would have been crated
          up and sent over there.

          Even today heavier pallets can have the runners made
          of Oak. A friend of mine scored tons of this stuff
          from an neighbouring industrial site early in his
          cabinet carreer, that was '85. In the forties I bet
          they cut that stuff down at the drop of a hat.

          After all, they pulp first growth trees to publish
          books. For that mater I was going through upper NY
          state last summer, and got into a discusion of local
          lumbering practices. Seems they cut the local maple
          forests on private land for income. Best Use: pulp,
          and fuel for electricity generation. This really
          slayed me, because the cost of maple lumber localy has
          soared higher than cherry and oak.


          "Old growth Doug fir is a wondeful wood. It's really
          tragic how it's been
          squandered over the years. I've heard tell about prime
          fir being used for
          pallets in WW II. The story may be apocryphal, but it
          sounds likely given
          the way war can warp a country's mentality-- seems
          some procurement agent
          wanted to do his part for the war effort by providing
          the _very best_
          pallets he could, so he specified the highest grade of
          lumber for them,
          made him feel more patriotic no doubt... The there
          were all those wooden
          steamships and schooners built for WW I, and never
          used for the war effort
          or much of anything else. Most were abandoned or
          burned within a few years
          of the war's end."

          _______________________________________________________
          Build your own website for free and in minutes at http://ca.geocities.com
        • Charles Wilson
          Luke, I would love to see that but the link does not work for me. Charles If you keep heading south you will eventually reach civilisation ... From:
          Message 4 of 23 , Nov 5, 2001
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            Luke,

            I would love to see that but the link does not work for me.

            Charles


            If you keep heading south you will eventually reach civilisation
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <lukecurran@...>
            To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 9:19 AM
            Subject: [bolger] Re: Block Parts?


            > If this link has been posted I've missed it;
            >
            >
            >
            > http://catalogue.com/bobpone/plywoodblocks.htm
            >
            >
            > Bolger rules!!!
            > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
            > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
            > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
            > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
            01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
            > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • lukecurran@hotmail.com
            Sorry, I hope I get it right this time! http://catalog.com/bobpone/plywoodblocks.htm ... like ... Gloucester, MA, ... http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            Message 5 of 23 , Nov 5, 2001
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              Sorry, I hope I get it right this time!


              http://catalog.com/bobpone/plywoodblocks.htm


              --- In bolger@y..., "Charles Wilson" <wilson.c@b...> wrote:
              > Luke,
              >
              > I would love to see that but the link does not work for me.
              >
              > Charles
              >
              >
              > If you keep heading south you will eventually reach civilisation
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: <lukecurran@h...>
              > To: <bolger@y...>
              > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 9:19 AM
              > Subject: [bolger] Re: Block Parts?
              >
              >
              > > If this link has been posted I've missed it;
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > http://catalogue.com/bobpone/plywoodblocks.htm
              > >
              > >
              > > Bolger rules!!!
              > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
              > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
              > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
              like
              > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
              Gloucester, MA,
              > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
              > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >
              > >
            • lukecurran@hotmail.com
              Charles You might be interested in the (non-bolger) page on tradional boats I found the link - lots of tips. http://catalog.com/bobpone/shopbuilding.htm
              Message 6 of 23 , Nov 5, 2001
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                Charles

                You might be interested in the (non-bolger) page on tradional boats I
                found the link - lots of tips.


                http://catalog.com/bobpone/shopbuilding.htm



                --- In bolger@y..., "Charles Wilson" <wilson.c@b...> wrote:
                > Luke,
                >
                > I would love to see that but the link does not work for me.
                >
                > Charles
                >
                >
              • Charles Wilson
                Luke, Thanks a lot the link now works and I kinda like the idea. Will also look at the rest as you suggest. Charles If you keep heading south you will
                Message 7 of 23 , Nov 5, 2001
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                  Luke,

                  Thanks a lot the link now works and I kinda like the idea.

                  Will also look at the rest as you suggest.

                  Charles


                  If you keep heading south you will eventually reach civilisation
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: <lukecurran@...>
                  To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 2:42 PM
                  Subject: [bolger] Re: Block Parts?


                  > Charles
                  >
                  > You might be interested in the (non-bolger) page on tradional boats I
                  > found the link - lots of tips.
                  >
                  >
                  > http://catalog.com/bobpone/shopbuilding.htm
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In bolger@y..., "Charles Wilson" <wilson.c@b...> wrote:
                  > > Luke,
                  > >
                  > > I would love to see that but the link does not work for me.
                  > >
                  > > Charles
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Bolger rules!!!
                  > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                  > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
                  > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
                  > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
                  01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                  > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                • Harry James
                  Great site, it was exactly what I was looking for. Home made blocks, by a guy who thinks production and good quality, lets get it built and get on the water.
                  Message 8 of 23 , Nov 5, 2001
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                    Great site, it was exactly what I was looking for. Home made blocks, by a guy who thinks production
                    and good quality, lets get it built and get on the water. I am interested in building blocks rather
                    than buying because of the incredible expense of $$Marine$$ hardware. I didn't want to handcraft each
                    one though. Thanks to this guys site and Richard's, recommendation of mcmaster site I have enough to
                    come up with something on my own for mass production.

                    HJ

                    lukecurran@... wrote:

                    > If this link has been posted I've missed it;
                    >
                    > http://catalogue.com/bobpone/plywoodblocks.htm
                    >
                  • Charles Wilson
                    Thanks Luke, now I think I may attempt to build some blocks instead of hibernating. Blocks, hibernation? If I speak to you again before the spring I will be
                    Message 9 of 23 , Nov 5, 2001
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                      Thanks Luke, now I think I may attempt to build some blocks instead of
                      hibernating. Blocks, hibernation?
                      If I speak to you again before the spring I will be making blocks,
                      otherwise.................................

                      Charlessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss


                      If you keep heading south you will eventually reach civilisation
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: <lukecurran@...>
                      To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 2:05 PM
                      Subject: [bolger] Re: Block Parts?


                      > Sorry, I hope I get it right this time!
                      >
                      >
                      > http://catalog.com/bobpone/plywoodblocks.htm
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In bolger@y..., "Charles Wilson" <wilson.c@b...> wrote:
                      > > Luke,
                      > >
                      > > I would love to see that but the link does not work for me.
                      > >
                      > > Charles
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > If you keep heading south you will eventually reach civilisation
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: <lukecurran@h...>
                      > > To: <bolger@y...>
                      > > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 9:19 AM
                      > > Subject: [bolger] Re: Block Parts?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > > If this link has been posted I've missed it;
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > http://catalogue.com/bobpone/plywoodblocks.htm
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Bolger rules!!!
                      > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                      > > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
                      > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
                      > like
                      > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
                      > Gloucester, MA,
                      > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                      > > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
                      > > >
                      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Bolger rules!!!
                      > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                      > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
                      > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
                      > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
                      01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                      > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
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