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Redwood?

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  • boatbuilding@goldencoast.com
    Redwood is never mentioned as an option for boat building. I was just curious as to why that may be. It has reasonable rot resistance, if allowed to dry good
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 1, 2001
      Redwood is never mentioned as an option for boat building. I was
      just curious as to why that may be. It has reasonable rot
      resistance, if allowed to dry good and epoxy coated would stable. I
      know it may not perfect but for stringers and bilge areas, would it
      be a decent option? Epoxy coated, it would last the life a any wood
      boat.

      Curious?

      Jeff
    • Jeff Blunck
      I would believe that Redwood would split if used in high stress areas. When it s dried out, it is light and tender like good old white pine. My thoughts
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 1, 2001
        I would believe that Redwood would split if used in high stress areas. When
        it's dried out, it is light and tender like good old white pine. My
        thoughts where to use it in places hard to get too to check for moisture. I
        just figured that coated in epoxy, it might be the ticket for those hard to
        reach places for things like internal chine logs, bulkhead framing, etc.

        Glued next to plywood as on bulkhead frames would help splitting and might
        be the way to go if there wasn't a real problems using it. Safer than
        cutting and handling treated lumber.

        Some really nice 2 X 2 stuff at the local lumber yard right now.

        Jeff

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Harry W. James" <welshman@...>
        To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 2:42 PM
        Subject: Re: [bolger] Redwood?


        > I didn't know that they were using redwood in modern composite boat
        > building. A red and yellow cedar strip hull with redwood worked in
        > artistically would be pretty spectacular. As far as I know they did
        > not use redwood for boatbuilding in the old days. I have a dim memory
        > of asking my dad about why they didn't use it when it was readily
        > available, and as I remember, he said it split too easily.
        >
        > The battles of the Save the Redwoods League, to save the Sequoia
        > Gigantia's up in the Sierra in the late 40's early 50's, was not to
        > keep the Redwoods from being logged. Lumber guys have told me that
        > their wood did not have much value. The 3000-4500 ft level where they
        > grow promotes very large Pines and Cedars (12-15 ft through the trunk,
        > 200 ft plus tall) which are necessary to hold down the roots of the
        > big boys. These trees were the ones the logging companies wanted.
        >
        > You can understand this if you have ever stood under a Sugar Pine with
        > a trunk 12' through and a clear run of 100 ft to the first branch. You
        > can picture that incredibly tight grained, clear lumber hidden from
        > your prying eyes just underneath the bark. It is enough to inspire
        > lust in even an amateur woodworker.
        >
        >
        >
        > thomas dalzell wrote:
      • thomas dalzell
        Always keep in mind that any lumber larger than 1x1 can t be counted on to be stable with a coating alone. Redwood splits very easilly so I wouldn t use it for
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 1, 2001
          Always keep in mind that any lumber larger than 1x1
          can't be counted on to be stable with a coating alone.
          Redwood splits very easilly so I wouldn't use it for
          things you are nailling to or screwing to. If you are
          worried about wood rot, just use epoxy coving, it is
          easy to instal, and will not rot etc...
          --- Jeff Blunck <boatbuilding@...> wrote:

          <HR>
          <html><body>
          <tt>
          I would believe that Redwood would split if used in
          high stress areas.  When<BR>
          it's dried out, it is light and tender like good old
          white pine.  My<BR>
          thoughts where to use it in places hard to get too to
          check for moisture.  I<BR>
          just figured that coated in epoxy, it might be the
          ticket for those hard to<BR>
          reach places for things like internal chine logs,
          bulkhead framing, etc.<BR>
          <BR>
          Glued next to plywood as on bulkhead frames would help
          splitting and might<BR>
          be the way to go if there wasn't a real problems using
          it.  Safer than<BR>
          cutting and handling treated lumber.<BR>
          <BR>
          Some really nice 2 X 2 stuff at the local lumber yard
          right now.<BR>
          <BR>
          Jeff<BR>
          <BR>
          ----- Original Message -----<BR>
          From: "Harry W. James"
          <welshman@...><BR>
          To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com><BR>
          Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 2:42 PM<BR>
          Subject: Re: [bolger] Redwood?<BR>
          <BR>
          <BR>
          > I didn't know that they were using redwood in
          modern composite boat<BR>
          > building. A red and yellow cedar strip hull with
          redwood worked in<BR>
          > artistically would be pretty spectacular. As far
          as I know they did<BR>
          > not use redwood for boatbuilding in the old days.
          I have a dim memory<BR>
          > of asking my dad about why they didn't use it
          when it was readily<BR>
          > available, and as I remember, he said it split
          too easily.<BR>
          ><BR>
          > The battles of the Save the Redwoods League, to
          save the Sequoia<BR>
          > Gigantia's up in the Sierra in the late 40's
          early 50's, was not to<BR>
          > keep the Redwoods from being logged. Lumber guys
          have told me that<BR>
          > their wood did not have much value. The 3000-4500
          ft level where they<BR>
          > grow promotes very large Pines and Cedars (12-15
          ft through the trunk,<BR>
          > 200 ft plus tall) which are necessary to hold
          down the roots of the<BR>
          > big boys. These trees were the ones the logging
          companies wanted.<BR>
          ><BR>
          > You can understand this if you have ever stood
          under a Sugar Pine with<BR>
          > a trunk 12' through and a clear run of 100 ft to
          the first branch. You<BR>
          > can picture that incredibly tight grained, clear
          lumber hidden from<BR>
          > your prying eyes just underneath the bark. It is
          enough to inspire<BR>
          > lust in even an amateur woodworker.<BR>
          ><BR>
          ><BR>
          ><BR>
          > thomas dalzell wrote:<BR>
          <BR>
          <BR>
          </tt>

          <br>

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          <tt>
          Bolger rules!!!<BR>
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        • thomas dalzell
          I guess they hadn t invented the deck yet ;0). The kind of wood I am talking about should probably be used only for classical guitars, and other high end
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 1, 2001
            I guess they hadn't invented the deck yet ;0). The
            kind of wood I am talking about should probably be
            used only for classical guitars, and other high end
            stuff. But as long as they keep making shingles out
            of it, I don't know what to say.

            Your right about splitting. But in composite, its the
            way it works as a core that matters, which is a
            different issue.

            Fascinating history.


            --- "Harry W. James" <welshman@...> wrote:

            <HR>
            <html><body>
            <tt>
            I didn't know that they were using redwood in modern
            composite boat<BR>
            building. A red and yellow cedar strip hull with
            redwood worked in<BR>
            artistically would be pretty spectacular. As far as I
            know they did<BR>
            not use redwood for boatbuilding in the old days. I
            have a dim memory<BR>
            of asking my dad about why they didn't use it when it
            was readily<BR>
            available, and as I remember, he said it split too
            easily.<BR>
            <BR>
            The battles of the Save the Redwoods League, to save
            the Sequoia<BR>
            Gigantia's up in the Sierra in the late 40's early
            50's, was not to<BR>
            keep the Redwoods from being logged. Lumber guys have
            told me that<BR>
            their wood did not have much value. The 3000-4500 ft
            level where they<BR>
            grow promotes very large Pines and Cedars (12-15 ft
            through the trunk,<BR>
            200 ft plus tall) which are necessary to hold down the
            roots of the<BR>
            big boys. These trees were the ones the logging
            companies wanted. <BR>
            <BR>
            You can understand this if you have ever stood under a
            Sugar Pine with<BR>
            a trunk 12' through and a clear run of 100 ft to the
            first branch. You<BR>
            can picture that incredibly tight grained, clear
            lumber hidden from<BR>
            your prying eyes just underneath the bark. It is
            enough to inspire<BR>
            lust in even an amateur woodworker. <BR>
            <BR>
            <BR>
            <BR>
            thomas dalzell wrote:<BR>
            > <BR>
            > Yes sure can, think strip canoes etc...  But
            it also<BR>
            > excells for stuff like rudders, centerboards,
            and<BR>
            > paddles, wingspars.  The Gougeons are big
            promoters<BR>
            > when encapsulated.  They built Adreneline a
            race<BR>
            > winning formula 40 out of cedar/carbon.  On
            the other<BR>
            > hand, the good stuff is cheapish, but not in<BR>
            > comparison to marine plywood.<BR>
            > <BR>
            > --- boatbuilding@... wrote:<BR>
            > <BR>
            > <HR><BR>
            > <html><body><BR>
            > <tt><BR>
            > It doesn't seem to be mentioned here but can
            Redwood<BR>
            > be use in boat <BR><BR>
            > building.&nbsp; It has reasonable rot
            resistance, and<BR>
            > when properly dried, <BR><BR>
            > fairly stable.&nbsp; Epoxy coated, it should
            last the<BR>
            > life of a wood <BR><BR>
            > boat.&nbsp; <BR><BR>
            > <BR><BR>
            > I sent this once already as doesn't seem to be
            posted<BR>
            > so I'll try <BR><BR>
            > again.&nbsp; Hopefully we don't get
            two.<BR><BR>
            > <BR><BR>
            > Jeff Blunck<BR><BR>
            > <BR><BR>
            > <BR><BR>
            > <BR><BR>
            > </tt><BR>
            > <BR>
            ><BR>
            </tt>

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          • Chris Crandall
            ... It s largely because western red cedar is a better option on almost every dimension. Cedar is lighter, often cheaper, more plentiful around the country,
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 2, 2001
              On Mon, 1 Oct 2001 boatbuilding@... wrote:
              > Redwood is never mentioned as an option for boat building. I was just
              > curious as to why that may be. It has reasonable rot resistance, if
              > allowed to dry good and epoxy coated would stable. I know it may not
              > perfect but for stringers and bilge areas, would it be a decent
              > option? Epoxy coated, it would last the life a any wood boat.

              It's largely because western red cedar is a better option on almost every
              dimension. Cedar is lighter, often cheaper, more plentiful around the
              country, less prone to splitting, and more able to take a pounding.

              I used red cedar as a butt block that runs athwart my shantyboat's cabin
              sole (it was a quickie boat, and the bottoms side of the plywood panels
              are completely epoxy/fiberglassed). We walk all over it, scuffing along,
              and drop things on it. Very little signs of wear--I've benn quite happily
              surprised.

              Redwood is occasionally used in strippers. However, there's not much
              grain--it's a nice color, but solid. Cedar, on the other hand, cna have a
              very nice grain to it, too.


              Chris Crandall crandall@... (785) 864-4131
              Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
              I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
            • Paul Lefebvre
              ... I ve used some redwood in my strippers. The small strips of redwood split very easily when stapled or nailed - they also don t tolerate much bending before
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 2, 2001
                >
                > Redwood is occasionally used in strippers. However, there's not much
                > grain--it's a nice color, but solid. Cedar, on the other hand, cna have a
                > very nice grain to it, too.

                I've used some redwood in my strippers. The small strips of redwood split
                very easily when stapled or nailed - they also don't tolerate much bending
                before splitting. But it can make very nice accent strips, which is about
                all I have the patience to use it for. Nothing really comes close to western
                red cedar for stripping - lightweight, beautiful, easy to work, smells good,
                etc..... I agree with Tom Dalzell, and Harry James's posts - I've stood next
                to some big red cedars in the Sierras, and they are a sight to behold; it's
                a shame to see so much perfect red cedar split into shingles - it oughta be
                reserved for musical instruments - and boats!

                Paul L
              • jonpit@yahoo.com
                It is true that redwood is generally light , soft and easily splits along the grain. But, in many years of working with it I ve noticed a great range of
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 6, 2001
                  It is true that redwood is generally light , soft and easily splits
                  along the grain. But, in many years of working with it I've noticed a
                  great range of variation in the material. "Redwood" refers to Sequoia
                  sempervirens - the coast redwood which is used for lumber. The Giant
                  Sequoia that groes in the Sierras is another material. Old, slow growth
                  Redwood tends to be a completely different material which seems denser
                  across grain and less prone to split. It also has more tannins and rot
                  resistance. It is readily available in large unmolested pieces from
                  water and wine tanks, old beams and ext. architectural elements.

                  , w --- In bolger@y..., boatbuilding@g... wrote:
                  > Redwood is never mentioned as an option for boat building. I was
                  > just curious as to why that may be. It has reasonable rot
                  > resistance, if allowed to dry good and epoxy coated would stable. I
                  > know it may not perfect but for stringers and bilge areas, would it
                  > be a decent option? Epoxy coated, it would last the life a any wood
                  > boat.
                  >
                  > Curious?
                  >
                  > Jeff
                • sanmi@yahoo.com
                  I used cheap pine for the chine logs on my AF3 sharpie, but I built the mast out of redwood because it was the only straight, clear 16 stock they had (a
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 8, 2001
                    I used cheap pine for the chine logs on my AF3 sharpie, but I built
                    the mast out of redwood because it was the only straight, clear 16'
                    stock they had (a Lumber Yard in Colorado Springs, CO). It was kind
                    of expensive, but the end result was good. I chose stock that didn't
                    have much sapwood and then cut to avoid all sapwood. I had to plug
                    only one 3/4" knothole. The mast is plenty bendy and doesn't seem
                    too brittle.

                    scarfing pictures:
                    http://www.geocities.com/sanmi/creamcheese/scarf1.jpg
                    http://www.geocities.com/sanmi/creamcheese/scarf2.jpg
                    http://www.geocities.com/sanmi/creamcheese/scarf3.jpg


                    --- In bolger@y..., jonpit@y... wrote:
                    > It is true that redwood is generally light , soft and easily
                    splits
                    > along the grain. But, in many years of working with it I've
                    noticed a
                    > great range of variation in the material. "Redwood" refers to
                    Sequoia
                    > sempervirens - the coast redwood which is used for lumber. The
                    Giant
                    > Sequoia that groes in the Sierras is another material. Old, slow
                    growth
                    > Redwood tends to be a completely different material which seems
                    denser
                    > across grain and less prone to split. It also has more tannins and
                    rot
                    > resistance. It is readily available in large unmolested pieces from
                    > water and wine tanks, old beams and ext. architectural elements.
                    >
                    > , w --- In bolger@y..., boatbuilding@g... wrote:
                    > > Redwood is never mentioned as an option for boat building. I was
                    > > just curious as to why that may be. It has reasonable rot
                    > > resistance, if allowed to dry good and epoxy coated would
                    stable. I
                    > > know it may not perfect but for stringers and bilge areas, would
                    it
                    > > be a decent option? Epoxy coated, it would last the life a any
                    wood
                    > > boat.
                    > >
                    > > Curious?
                    > >
                    > > Jeff
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