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Redwood?

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  • boatbuilding@goldencoast.com
    Redwood is never mentioned as an option for boat building. I was just curious as to why that may be. It has reasonable rot resistance, if allowed to dry good
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 1, 2001
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      Redwood is never mentioned as an option for boat building. I was
      just curious as to why that may be. It has reasonable rot
      resistance, if allowed to dry good and epoxy coated would stable. I
      know it may not perfect but for stringers and bilge areas, would it
      be a decent option? Epoxy coated, it would last the life a any wood
      boat.

      Curious?

      Jeff
    • Harry W. James
      I didn t know that they were using redwood in modern composite boat building. A red and yellow cedar strip hull with redwood worked in artistically would be
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 1, 2001
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        I didn't know that they were using redwood in modern composite boat
        building. A red and yellow cedar strip hull with redwood worked in
        artistically would be pretty spectacular. As far as I know they did
        not use redwood for boatbuilding in the old days. I have a dim memory
        of asking my dad about why they didn't use it when it was readily
        available, and as I remember, he said it split too easily.

        The battles of the Save the Redwoods League, to save the Sequoia
        Gigantia's up in the Sierra in the late 40's early 50's, was not to
        keep the Redwoods from being logged. Lumber guys have told me that
        their wood did not have much value. The 3000-4500 ft level where they
        grow promotes very large Pines and Cedars (12-15 ft through the trunk,
        200 ft plus tall) which are necessary to hold down the roots of the
        big boys. These trees were the ones the logging companies wanted.

        You can understand this if you have ever stood under a Sugar Pine with
        a trunk 12' through and a clear run of 100 ft to the first branch. You
        can picture that incredibly tight grained, clear lumber hidden from
        your prying eyes just underneath the bark. It is enough to inspire
        lust in even an amateur woodworker.



        thomas dalzell wrote:
        >
        > Yes sure can, think strip canoes etc... But it also
        > excells for stuff like rudders, centerboards, and
        > paddles, wingspars. The Gougeons are big promoters
        > when encapsulated. They built Adreneline a race
        > winning formula 40 out of cedar/carbon. On the other
        > hand, the good stuff is cheapish, but not in
        > comparison to marine plywood.
        >
        > --- boatbuilding@... wrote:
        >
        > <HR>
        > <html><body>
        > <tt>
        > It doesn't seem to be mentioned here but can Redwood
        > be use in boat <BR>
        > building.  It has reasonable rot resistance, and
        > when properly dried, <BR>
        > fairly stable.  Epoxy coated, it should last the
        > life of a wood <BR>
        > boat.  <BR>
        > <BR>
        > I sent this once already as doesn't seem to be posted
        > so I'll try <BR>
        > again.  Hopefully we don't get two.<BR>
        > <BR>
        > Jeff Blunck<BR>
        > <BR>
        > <BR>
        > <BR>
        > </tt>
        >
        >
      • Jeff Blunck
        I would believe that Redwood would split if used in high stress areas. When it s dried out, it is light and tender like good old white pine. My thoughts
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 1, 2001
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          I would believe that Redwood would split if used in high stress areas. When
          it's dried out, it is light and tender like good old white pine. My
          thoughts where to use it in places hard to get too to check for moisture. I
          just figured that coated in epoxy, it might be the ticket for those hard to
          reach places for things like internal chine logs, bulkhead framing, etc.

          Glued next to plywood as on bulkhead frames would help splitting and might
          be the way to go if there wasn't a real problems using it. Safer than
          cutting and handling treated lumber.

          Some really nice 2 X 2 stuff at the local lumber yard right now.

          Jeff

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Harry W. James" <welshman@...>
          To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 2:42 PM
          Subject: Re: [bolger] Redwood?


          > I didn't know that they were using redwood in modern composite boat
          > building. A red and yellow cedar strip hull with redwood worked in
          > artistically would be pretty spectacular. As far as I know they did
          > not use redwood for boatbuilding in the old days. I have a dim memory
          > of asking my dad about why they didn't use it when it was readily
          > available, and as I remember, he said it split too easily.
          >
          > The battles of the Save the Redwoods League, to save the Sequoia
          > Gigantia's up in the Sierra in the late 40's early 50's, was not to
          > keep the Redwoods from being logged. Lumber guys have told me that
          > their wood did not have much value. The 3000-4500 ft level where they
          > grow promotes very large Pines and Cedars (12-15 ft through the trunk,
          > 200 ft plus tall) which are necessary to hold down the roots of the
          > big boys. These trees were the ones the logging companies wanted.
          >
          > You can understand this if you have ever stood under a Sugar Pine with
          > a trunk 12' through and a clear run of 100 ft to the first branch. You
          > can picture that incredibly tight grained, clear lumber hidden from
          > your prying eyes just underneath the bark. It is enough to inspire
          > lust in even an amateur woodworker.
          >
          >
          >
          > thomas dalzell wrote:
        • thomas dalzell
          Always keep in mind that any lumber larger than 1x1 can t be counted on to be stable with a coating alone. Redwood splits very easilly so I wouldn t use it for
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 1, 2001
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            Always keep in mind that any lumber larger than 1x1
            can't be counted on to be stable with a coating alone.
            Redwood splits very easilly so I wouldn't use it for
            things you are nailling to or screwing to. If you are
            worried about wood rot, just use epoxy coving, it is
            easy to instal, and will not rot etc...
            --- Jeff Blunck <boatbuilding@...> wrote:

            <HR>
            <html><body>
            <tt>
            I would believe that Redwood would split if used in
            high stress areas.  When<BR>
            it's dried out, it is light and tender like good old
            white pine.  My<BR>
            thoughts where to use it in places hard to get too to
            check for moisture.  I<BR>
            just figured that coated in epoxy, it might be the
            ticket for those hard to<BR>
            reach places for things like internal chine logs,
            bulkhead framing, etc.<BR>
            <BR>
            Glued next to plywood as on bulkhead frames would help
            splitting and might<BR>
            be the way to go if there wasn't a real problems using
            it.  Safer than<BR>
            cutting and handling treated lumber.<BR>
            <BR>
            Some really nice 2 X 2 stuff at the local lumber yard
            right now.<BR>
            <BR>
            Jeff<BR>
            <BR>
            ----- Original Message -----<BR>
            From: "Harry W. James"
            <welshman@...><BR>
            To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com><BR>
            Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 2:42 PM<BR>
            Subject: Re: [bolger] Redwood?<BR>
            <BR>
            <BR>
            > I didn't know that they were using redwood in
            modern composite boat<BR>
            > building. A red and yellow cedar strip hull with
            redwood worked in<BR>
            > artistically would be pretty spectacular. As far
            as I know they did<BR>
            > not use redwood for boatbuilding in the old days.
            I have a dim memory<BR>
            > of asking my dad about why they didn't use it
            when it was readily<BR>
            > available, and as I remember, he said it split
            too easily.<BR>
            ><BR>
            > The battles of the Save the Redwoods League, to
            save the Sequoia<BR>
            > Gigantia's up in the Sierra in the late 40's
            early 50's, was not to<BR>
            > keep the Redwoods from being logged. Lumber guys
            have told me that<BR>
            > their wood did not have much value. The 3000-4500
            ft level where they<BR>
            > grow promotes very large Pines and Cedars (12-15
            ft through the trunk,<BR>
            > 200 ft plus tall) which are necessary to hold
            down the roots of the<BR>
            > big boys. These trees were the ones the logging
            companies wanted.<BR>
            ><BR>
            > You can understand this if you have ever stood
            under a Sugar Pine with<BR>
            > a trunk 12' through and a clear run of 100 ft to
            the first branch. You<BR>
            > can picture that incredibly tight grained, clear
            lumber hidden from<BR>
            > your prying eyes just underneath the bark. It is
            enough to inspire<BR>
            > lust in even an amateur woodworker.<BR>
            ><BR>
            ><BR>
            ><BR>
            > thomas dalzell wrote:<BR>
            <BR>
            <BR>
            </tt>

            <br>

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          • thomas dalzell
            I guess they hadn t invented the deck yet ;0). The kind of wood I am talking about should probably be used only for classical guitars, and other high end
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 1, 2001
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              I guess they hadn't invented the deck yet ;0). The
              kind of wood I am talking about should probably be
              used only for classical guitars, and other high end
              stuff. But as long as they keep making shingles out
              of it, I don't know what to say.

              Your right about splitting. But in composite, its the
              way it works as a core that matters, which is a
              different issue.

              Fascinating history.


              --- "Harry W. James" <welshman@...> wrote:

              <HR>
              <html><body>
              <tt>
              I didn't know that they were using redwood in modern
              composite boat<BR>
              building. A red and yellow cedar strip hull with
              redwood worked in<BR>
              artistically would be pretty spectacular. As far as I
              know they did<BR>
              not use redwood for boatbuilding in the old days. I
              have a dim memory<BR>
              of asking my dad about why they didn't use it when it
              was readily<BR>
              available, and as I remember, he said it split too
              easily.<BR>
              <BR>
              The battles of the Save the Redwoods League, to save
              the Sequoia<BR>
              Gigantia's up in the Sierra in the late 40's early
              50's, was not to<BR>
              keep the Redwoods from being logged. Lumber guys have
              told me that<BR>
              their wood did not have much value. The 3000-4500 ft
              level where they<BR>
              grow promotes very large Pines and Cedars (12-15 ft
              through the trunk,<BR>
              200 ft plus tall) which are necessary to hold down the
              roots of the<BR>
              big boys. These trees were the ones the logging
              companies wanted. <BR>
              <BR>
              You can understand this if you have ever stood under a
              Sugar Pine with<BR>
              a trunk 12' through and a clear run of 100 ft to the
              first branch. You<BR>
              can picture that incredibly tight grained, clear
              lumber hidden from<BR>
              your prying eyes just underneath the bark. It is
              enough to inspire<BR>
              lust in even an amateur woodworker. <BR>
              <BR>
              <BR>
              <BR>
              thomas dalzell wrote:<BR>
              > <BR>
              > Yes sure can, think strip canoes etc...  But
              it also<BR>
              > excells for stuff like rudders, centerboards,
              and<BR>
              > paddles, wingspars.  The Gougeons are big
              promoters<BR>
              > when encapsulated.  They built Adreneline a
              race<BR>
              > winning formula 40 out of cedar/carbon.  On
              the other<BR>
              > hand, the good stuff is cheapish, but not in<BR>
              > comparison to marine plywood.<BR>
              > <BR>
              > --- boatbuilding@... wrote:<BR>
              > <BR>
              > <HR><BR>
              > <html><body><BR>
              > <tt><BR>
              > It doesn't seem to be mentioned here but can
              Redwood<BR>
              > be use in boat <BR><BR>
              > building.&nbsp; It has reasonable rot
              resistance, and<BR>
              > when properly dried, <BR><BR>
              > fairly stable.&nbsp; Epoxy coated, it should
              last the<BR>
              > life of a wood <BR><BR>
              > boat.&nbsp; <BR><BR>
              > <BR><BR>
              > I sent this once already as doesn't seem to be
              posted<BR>
              > so I'll try <BR><BR>
              > again.&nbsp; Hopefully we don't get
              two.<BR><BR>
              > <BR><BR>
              > Jeff Blunck<BR><BR>
              > <BR><BR>
              > <BR><BR>
              > <BR><BR>
              > </tt><BR>
              > <BR>
              ><BR>
              </tt>

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            • Chris Crandall
              ... It s largely because western red cedar is a better option on almost every dimension. Cedar is lighter, often cheaper, more plentiful around the country,
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 2, 2001
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                On Mon, 1 Oct 2001 boatbuilding@... wrote:
                > Redwood is never mentioned as an option for boat building. I was just
                > curious as to why that may be. It has reasonable rot resistance, if
                > allowed to dry good and epoxy coated would stable. I know it may not
                > perfect but for stringers and bilge areas, would it be a decent
                > option? Epoxy coated, it would last the life a any wood boat.

                It's largely because western red cedar is a better option on almost every
                dimension. Cedar is lighter, often cheaper, more plentiful around the
                country, less prone to splitting, and more able to take a pounding.

                I used red cedar as a butt block that runs athwart my shantyboat's cabin
                sole (it was a quickie boat, and the bottoms side of the plywood panels
                are completely epoxy/fiberglassed). We walk all over it, scuffing along,
                and drop things on it. Very little signs of wear--I've benn quite happily
                surprised.

                Redwood is occasionally used in strippers. However, there's not much
                grain--it's a nice color, but solid. Cedar, on the other hand, cna have a
                very nice grain to it, too.


                Chris Crandall crandall@... (785) 864-4131
                Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
                I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
              • Paul Lefebvre
                ... I ve used some redwood in my strippers. The small strips of redwood split very easily when stapled or nailed - they also don t tolerate much bending before
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 2, 2001
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                  >
                  > Redwood is occasionally used in strippers. However, there's not much
                  > grain--it's a nice color, but solid. Cedar, on the other hand, cna have a
                  > very nice grain to it, too.

                  I've used some redwood in my strippers. The small strips of redwood split
                  very easily when stapled or nailed - they also don't tolerate much bending
                  before splitting. But it can make very nice accent strips, which is about
                  all I have the patience to use it for. Nothing really comes close to western
                  red cedar for stripping - lightweight, beautiful, easy to work, smells good,
                  etc..... I agree with Tom Dalzell, and Harry James's posts - I've stood next
                  to some big red cedars in the Sierras, and they are a sight to behold; it's
                  a shame to see so much perfect red cedar split into shingles - it oughta be
                  reserved for musical instruments - and boats!

                  Paul L
                • jonpit@yahoo.com
                  It is true that redwood is generally light , soft and easily splits along the grain. But, in many years of working with it I ve noticed a great range of
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 6, 2001
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                    It is true that redwood is generally light , soft and easily splits
                    along the grain. But, in many years of working with it I've noticed a
                    great range of variation in the material. "Redwood" refers to Sequoia
                    sempervirens - the coast redwood which is used for lumber. The Giant
                    Sequoia that groes in the Sierras is another material. Old, slow growth
                    Redwood tends to be a completely different material which seems denser
                    across grain and less prone to split. It also has more tannins and rot
                    resistance. It is readily available in large unmolested pieces from
                    water and wine tanks, old beams and ext. architectural elements.

                    , w --- In bolger@y..., boatbuilding@g... wrote:
                    > Redwood is never mentioned as an option for boat building. I was
                    > just curious as to why that may be. It has reasonable rot
                    > resistance, if allowed to dry good and epoxy coated would stable. I
                    > know it may not perfect but for stringers and bilge areas, would it
                    > be a decent option? Epoxy coated, it would last the life a any wood
                    > boat.
                    >
                    > Curious?
                    >
                    > Jeff
                  • sanmi@yahoo.com
                    I used cheap pine for the chine logs on my AF3 sharpie, but I built the mast out of redwood because it was the only straight, clear 16 stock they had (a
                    Message 9 of 11 , Oct 8, 2001
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                      I used cheap pine for the chine logs on my AF3 sharpie, but I built
                      the mast out of redwood because it was the only straight, clear 16'
                      stock they had (a Lumber Yard in Colorado Springs, CO). It was kind
                      of expensive, but the end result was good. I chose stock that didn't
                      have much sapwood and then cut to avoid all sapwood. I had to plug
                      only one 3/4" knothole. The mast is plenty bendy and doesn't seem
                      too brittle.

                      scarfing pictures:
                      http://www.geocities.com/sanmi/creamcheese/scarf1.jpg
                      http://www.geocities.com/sanmi/creamcheese/scarf2.jpg
                      http://www.geocities.com/sanmi/creamcheese/scarf3.jpg


                      --- In bolger@y..., jonpit@y... wrote:
                      > It is true that redwood is generally light , soft and easily
                      splits
                      > along the grain. But, in many years of working with it I've
                      noticed a
                      > great range of variation in the material. "Redwood" refers to
                      Sequoia
                      > sempervirens - the coast redwood which is used for lumber. The
                      Giant
                      > Sequoia that groes in the Sierras is another material. Old, slow
                      growth
                      > Redwood tends to be a completely different material which seems
                      denser
                      > across grain and less prone to split. It also has more tannins and
                      rot
                      > resistance. It is readily available in large unmolested pieces from
                      > water and wine tanks, old beams and ext. architectural elements.
                      >
                      > , w --- In bolger@y..., boatbuilding@g... wrote:
                      > > Redwood is never mentioned as an option for boat building. I was
                      > > just curious as to why that may be. It has reasonable rot
                      > > resistance, if allowed to dry good and epoxy coated would
                      stable. I
                      > > know it may not perfect but for stringers and bilge areas, would
                      it
                      > > be a decent option? Epoxy coated, it would last the life a any
                      wood
                      > > boat.
                      > >
                      > > Curious?
                      > >
                      > > Jeff
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