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Re: A Bolger Sailing Dory?

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  • Belenky, Peter
    The real question is, What do you mean by a dory? The defining type starts with a narrow, longitudinally planked, flat bottom, sawn frames, wide planks,
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 1, 2001
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      The real question is, "What do you mean by a dory?" The defining type
      starts with a narrow, longitudinally planked, flat bottom, sawn frames, wide
      planks, and a narrow, raking "tombstone" stern. Its straight, flaring sides
      result in an obvious lack of stability for sail carrying, however. The
      traditional approach to adding stability is to round out the sides in the
      manner of Alpha/Beachcomber Swampscotts and Mower Massachusetts Bay racing
      dories. These classes also enshrined the traditional, picturesque dory rig,
      an almost equilateral, leg-of-mutton main on a plumb mast, well forward,
      with a small jib. The narrow stern was preserved as a requirement of racing
      rules. Inside ballast was required to keep them on their feet. These
      boats are the handsomest of the dories.

      Without racing rule constraints, and with freedom to explore modern
      construction methods, sailing dory development has progressed in several
      directions. One is to improve stability by attaching a fin keel, as in the
      manner of Benford's cruising dories or Bolger's "Burgundy", all of which
      retain the narrow transom or are double-ended. Another is to add power to a
      shoal hull by widening the beam, particularly at the stern. With a straight
      sides, you get sharpie designs like "Featherwind" and the Bolger boxes; with
      multiple chines, you get "Bobcat" and "Chebacco"; with round sides, you get
      designs like Bolger's "Nahant" and "Spartina". All of these can be seen as
      developments of the dory toward greater sail-carrying ability. The raking
      transom impairs rudder efficiency and shortens waterline length, so if the
      transom need not be narrow to conform to rules, it is more efficient to
      design it upright.

      The original dory rig has two advantages: it is simple to bundle up and step
      without stays or main halyard, and the high boom prevents tripping when
      heeled. Disadvantages are an inefficient shape, weight of the long boom to
      leeward, impossibility of reefing, need to rig some sort of lacing to permit
      lowering if stays and halyards are wanted, and the absence of room for a
      boom vang. The minimum modification is toward a simple, modern sloop
      geometry, as in "Nahant" and "Featherwind".

      Bolger has designed many sailing boats with dory ancestry, but preservation
      of the distinctive dory characteristics would be sacrificing efficiency for
      aesthetics, something he is reluctant to do.

      Peter Belenky
    • pvanderw@optonline.net
      Looking at the sailing dory problem from the other side, consider this question. Suppose you begin with a very light dory in the Bolger style, perhaps with
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 1, 2001
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        Looking at the sailing dory problem from the other side, consider
        this question.

        Suppose you begin with a very light dory in the Bolger style, perhaps
        with even more flair to the sides. Fit sailing benches on each side
        so the sailor can sit well to the side in some comfort. Add a
        daggerboard and rig of carefully calculated size.

        Is that boat actually going to be any trickier or more uncomfortable
        to sail than a Laser, or many of the other modern boats? (Of course,
        it won't be as fast due to the narrow stern.)

        Peter
      • jhkohnen@boat-links.com
        The Atkins, per and fils, have designed some smallish sailing dories. A couple of them can be seen here: http://www.boat-links.com/images/AbiePorpoise.gif
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 1, 2001
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          The Atkins, per and fils, have designed some smallish sailing dories. A
          couple of them can be seen here:

          http://www.boat-links.com/images/AbiePorpoise.gif

          http://www.boat-links.com/images/Pemaquid.gif

          They also did some smaller ones that I don't have scans for. Look for
          volumes in MoToR BoatinG magazine's Ideal Series. I'm plugging away at
          making an index of the plans in the series, which you can look at here
          (still very much under construction):

          http://www.boat-links.com/Ideal/index.html

          On Sun, 30 Sep 2001 20:00:58 -0000, Peter wrote:
          > ...
          > So, I thought of taking the lines of the Gardner "widened St. Pierre"
          > dory and drawing them half size. Add a built-up, Micro-style keel.
          > Arrange the rig, rudder and interior somewhat like the Herreshoff.
          > ...


          --
          John <jkohnen@...>
          http://www.boat-links.com/
          I care not for a man's religion whose dog or cat are not the better for it.
          <Abraham Lincoln>
        • John Bell
          At the risk of utter humiliation at the hands of the group, I ll point out a dory-type that ought to sail reasonably well. I ve drawn an 11 x4 dory (rowing
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 1, 2001
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            At the risk of utter humiliation at the hands of the group, I'll point out a
            dory-type that ought to sail reasonably well. I've drawn an 11' x4' dory
            (rowing version only). It could stand a modest sail rig. So I've been
            thinking of fitting it with the 59 sq. ft. leg o'mutton off of Bolger's Teal
            and a Windsprint style bilge-daggerboard.

            Go to Duckworks and look in the designs section if you are interested in the
            rowing version. The sailing version only exists in my head at the moment,
            but that is sure to change if there is interest.

            Also, I'll have to disagree with Don (StepHydro) about dories being poor row
            boats. Maybe the old heavy high-sided banks dories were crummy to row. But a
            modern, low, light plywood dory rows pretty darn well. Lightweight Whitehall
            types my row better in a chop, but the dory is quite a performer especially
            considering how much less expense and complexity they have in comparison.


            John Bell <><
            Kennesaw, GA
            http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com
            mailto:jmbell@... - personal email


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <jhkohnen@...>
            To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 9:46 PM
            Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: A Bolger Sailing Dory?


            | The Atkins, per and fils, have designed some smallish sailing dories. A
            | couple of them can be seen here:
            |
            | http://www.boat-links.com/images/AbiePorpoise.gif
            |
            | http://www.boat-links.com/images/Pemaquid.gif
            |
            | They also did some smaller ones that I don't have scans for. Look for
            | volumes in MoToR BoatinG magazine's Ideal Series. I'm plugging away at
            | making an index of the plans in the series, which you can look at here
            | (still very much under construction):
            |
          • jhkohnen@boat-links.com
            Putting that Ideal Series index together has addled my brain, all the designs seem to run together... The smaller Atkin flat-sided dories I was thinkin of
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 2, 2001
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              Putting that Ideal Series index together has addled my brain, all the
              designs seem to run together... <g> The smaller Atkin flat-sided dories I
              was thinkin of are power boats, the small _sailing_ dories are round-sided.
              Perhaps the sailing dory idea just doesn't work well until the boats get
              bigger. The boats Chapelle and Sucher call "Cape Ann" dories, sort of Bank
              dories modified for sail by widening the bottoms a bit and adding a
              centerboard, among other things, are a bit bigger than the usual bank dory
              (almost 23' in Chappy's example and 24' for Sucher's). Apparently St.
              Pierre dories can be successfully modified for sail, they start at around
              27', IIRC. An Oregon boatbuilder, Bill Childs, designed and built a 19'
              version of a Cape Ann dory that sailed so poorly he ended up ripping out
              the centerboard trunk, her current owner uses her as a rowboat and
              powerboat (she's good at those tasks). So maybe it's just a bad idea to try
              making a flat-sided sailing dory much smaller than about 21'...

              I forgot to mention that Abie Porpoise (22'4") and Pemaquid (20'11") have
              ballast keels and inboard auxiliaries.

              On Mon, 01 Oct 2001 18:46:24 -0700, I wrote:
              > The Atkins, per and fils, have designed some smallish sailing dories. A
              > couple of them can be seen here:
              >
              > http://www.boat-links.com/images/AbiePorpoise.gif
              >
              > http://www.boat-links.com/images/Pemaquid.gif
              >
              > They also did some smaller ones that I don't have scans for.
              > ...

              --
              John <jkohnen@...>
              http://www.boat-links.com/
              I must say I find television very educational. The minute somebody turns
              it on, I go to the library and read a good book. <Groucho Marx>
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