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Re: Aircraft Carrier

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  • Matthew, Agnes and Fletcher Peillet-Long
    Wow! A kindred spirit! Miles, the long-gone British aircraft manufacturer best known for its trainers, seriously proposed its Messenger light planes for anti-
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 1, 2001
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      Wow! A kindred spirit!

      Miles, the long-gone British aircraft manufacturer best known for its
      trainers, seriously proposed its Messenger light planes for anti-
      submarine patrol off merchant ships during WWII. The Messenger was a
      low-wing plane with slots and flaps, much like the French/Polish
      Rallye glier tugs. The were to operate from a 60-foot square deck
      with rope arrestor cords and a bungee-sprung net for backup. For
      demonstration flights, they marked out a square on the airfield and
      packed in 5 passengers to represent the weight of equipment and a
      depth charge. It all worked great, but bureaucracy killed it.
      Here's a link to some Messenger pics:
      http://www.bigwig.net/museumofberkshireaviation/miles_extant/messenger
      _g_akvz.htm

      For a real imagination-starter, got to James Wharram's site and check
      out some of his larger catamarans, up to 60'. I would think that you
      could power one of his big cats with a couple of small diesels to
      make a fantastic little carrier. Or, you could go with an ultralight
      on floats and use the boat as a seaplane tender, and get away with a
      much smaller boat.
      http://www.wharram.com

      Keep dreaming!

      Matthew
    • bruce_hector@hotmail.com
      I can t stop the insanity. I ve posted a jpeg to the Bolger2 file folder of the CAP. Civilian Aircraft-Carrier Project. Yes the CH-701 can be put on floats,
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 3, 2001
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        I can't stop the insanity. I've posted a jpeg to the Bolger2 file
        folder of the CAP. Civilian Aircraft-Carrier Project. Yes the CH-701
        can be put on floats, but that would not fulfill my life long dream
        of becoming a fixed-wing carrier pilot. The catamaran idea has some
        merit, but 100-130 feet of deck will still look tiny on approach, a
        60'er would be like landing on a postage stamp. Possible in the 701,
        but with zero room for error, drift, crab, whatever. Such a vessel as
        a doubled Wyoming would make a spacious, to say the least, retirement
        home. It wouldn't be too expensive to operate in the inland waters
        and rivers. Just anchor out to save those horendous marina charges
        and use the launch that would hang on davits below the aft flight
        deck overhang to go in. Cost to build would be in the area of a
        house, and the Zenair costs no more than a new car. It is feasible,
        but is it sane? I may actually have to send this propoasl to Phil for
        the wizards imput. All coments welcome. Bruce Hector
      • Harry W. James
        Ah Rats I had posted my 20 min response, and was happily following the thread but without any involvement. Then last night my eldest son stumbled across the
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 6, 2001
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          Ah Rats

          I had posted my 20 min response, and was happily following the thread
          but without any involvement. Then last night my eldest son stumbled
          across the thread and thought it was really neat. This started a
          conversation which involved quite a bit of teaching and thought on my
          part about carrier ops.

          Everything I build has been built numerous time in my head already, and
          this building is usually done at night, as I fall asleep, when I awake
          in the middle of the night with a really hot idea, or as I wake up in
          the morning. Last night I fell asleep with no thought in my mind but how
          comfy my wife felt next to me, this morning my mind awakened and there,
          unasked for, was The CIVILIAN AIRCRAFTCARRIER PROJECT. AAAH!

          I have been working on a modified Tennessee idea, same hull, but with a
          cabin more suitable to our climate. It is apparent that one of Bolger's
          concerns about these narrow power sharpies is metacentric height. As you
          increase the cabin size and height, the CG moves up making for an
          unstable hull. Putting an Aircraft Carrier deck on one is defiantly
          going to bring the CG up unless you do some really light weight
          construction.

          The walls on the house I have just finished building are foam panels
          with OSB faces, with an occasional 2x6 to carry vertical loads. For the
          Tennessee, I had thought to combine this technique along with some other
          ideas from composite homebuilt aircraft methods. I hear from Fritz Funk,
          that Seth Macinko had been talking to Bolger, and he and Susan had
          already been thinking/experimenting with this technique using veneers
          bonded to construction foam.

          My thought is a really open frame of wood, the wood being where you need
          to frame in openings, and where needed for fastening and in the case of
          cabin sides, to carry vertical loads. The spaces would be filled with
          foam, the same thickness of the wood. I would then bond veener/thin
          plywood both sides and face with fiberglass where needed for abrasion or
          weather proofing. For the carrier deck you would have to go with a
          little more solid construction on the touch down area as this method is
          not that puncture proof.

          I have some veeneers on order to use for experimentation for my
          Tennessee project, I will report back.

          Next, CAP Hull Materials, Pop up steering stations, Pilot safety gear,
          and whatever else comes up in those fertile morning hours of thought.



          HJ

          bruce_hector@... wrote:
          >
          > I can't stop the insanity.
        • bruce_hector@hotmail.com
          Would a doubled Wyoming, 106 feet long with a 16 - 20 foot beam be unstable? She would have the flight deck only 8 feet above it s bottom. With a maximum deck
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 7, 2001
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            Would a doubled Wyoming, 106 feet long with a 16 - 20 foot beam be
            unstable? She would have the flight deck only 8 feet above it's
            bottom. With a maximum deck height of only half it's beam, on a flat
            bottom, she'd have a lot of initial and reserve stability. I don't
            think height will be a problem. 6' 6" head room with 12" laminated
            roof/deck beams to take the landing loads. She'd be as low as a
            regular sized Wyoh with tice the length and beam. I'd have nothing
            above the flight deck except for a 24" high conning station. Even
            this could be eliminated (or be a pop up as you suggest)and the boat
            conned from a wheelhouse right forward on the main deck level, many
            100' houseboats are conned from the main deck, the flying bridge
            being primarily used as an entertainment centre. Remote video cameras
            can scan aft.

            Marina fees would be a bit steep, so anchoring out would be the norm.
            A good launch could be kept instantly available on davits below the
            aft flight deck overhang. Have you seen the sketch I posted on
            Bolger2? What do you think? Mad Bruce
          • bruce_hector@hotmail.com
            Enough already, I have today composed and sent a snail mail to PB&F requesting Phils opinion on the carrier proposal. I enclosed the cartoon I made of it based
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 8, 2001
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              Enough already, I have today composed and sent a snail mail to PB&F
              requesting Phils opinion on the carrier proposal. I enclosed the
              cartoon I made of it based on a doubled Wyoming (see Bolger2 files)
              and a brief synopsis of what's been posted back and forth about her.
              I can't wait to hear back from Phil. Surely this is an example of
              open minded boats clouded by insanity. Since reality is for people
              who can't handle drugs, I'll have a ration of grog while waiting.
              Bruce Hector.
            • bruce_hector@hotmail.com
              Enough already, I have today snail mailed a query letter to PB&F about the feasability of the Civilian Aircraft-Carrier Project based on a doubled Wyoming
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 8, 2001
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                Enough already, I have today snail mailed a query letter to PB&F
                about the feasability of the Civilian Aircraft-Carrier Project based
                on a doubled Wyoming hull. I enclosed the cartoon I'd made of it (see
                files section on Bolger2 egoup) and a synopsis of the postings on
                her. I'm sure this qualifies as open minded boating. I can hardly
                wait to hear his response. Since drugs are for people who can't
                handle reality, I'm having a tot of rum while I wait. Bruce Hector
              • bruce_hector@hotmail.com
                Phil has replied to my carrier letter. Here is his reply, verbatim. He writes on 14 August, 01. Dear Bruce, Thanks for yours of August 8 (came this morning).
                Message 7 of 14 , Aug 23, 2001
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                  Phil has replied to my carrier letter. Here is his reply, verbatim.

                  He writes on 14 August, '01.

                  "Dear Bruce,

                  Thanks for yours of August 8 (came this morning). All those boats
                  look like nice work.

                  As for the aircraft carrier, it's perefectly feasible in principle,
                  though offhand we'd think your proposed power plants might not be
                  enough. Friction drag, which would be almost all the drag in this
                  case, goes up with the size in more than direct proportion. Also, you
                  have 2.5 times Wyoh's breadth: a cutwater might mitigate that.

                  The bow thrusters would be a T-50 in a concentric well.

                  Let us know, preferably in good time, when you're ready to go on it.
                  We did some work on a 100 X 12 Wyoh type some time ago, but the
                  client backed away at an early stage.

                  Phil Bolger
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