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Re: [bolger] Re: Glassing both sides

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  • Jeff Blunck
    Epoxy will adhere to old Epoxy if you rough it up really well with 100 grit sand paper. Using a palm sander, I start with 60 grit then finish with 100 grit
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 1, 2001
      Epoxy will adhere to old Epoxy if you rough it up really well with 100 grit
      sand paper. Using a palm sander, I start with 60 grit then finish with 100
      grit until the whole surface is scuffed well. Only took me about 15 minutes
      to prep 32' of chine log area along the bottom of my Tennessee.

      This is a mechanical bond and not as good as soaking into the wood but I
      think it's still stronger than the plywood anyway. If your still nervous
      about it, use another 1" wider tape at the joints to compensate.

      Jeff

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <richard@...>
      To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 12:19 PM
      Subject: [bolger] Re: Glassing both sides


      > Guess we are back to the old argument of whether epoxy will stick to
      > previous coats of epoxy or not... Have to do some testing before I
      > buy stuff I guess.
      >
      >
      > --- In bolger@y..., "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@b...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Glassing before assembly is easier, but some authorities (Reuel
      > Parker, for
      > > one) say that you should leave joining surfaces clean, or sand down
      > to the
      > > bare wood before glueing/taping.
      > >
      > > Jamie Orr
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: richard@s... [mailto:richard@s...]
      > > Sent: August 1, 2001 7:17 AM
      > > To: bolger@y...
      > > Subject: [bolger] Glassing both sides
      > >
      > >
      > > I'm considering glassing both sides of all the ply on the new boat,
      > > with at least a very light layer of cloth. Mainly to prevent
      > checking.
      > >
      > > I would glass the panels and sand them smooth before they went on
      > the
      > > boat. Anyone see any value in this?
      > >
      > > Pros:
      > > 1) No checking
      > > 2) No rot
      > > 3) epoxy makes good primer
      > > 4) wood sealed for outside building
      > >
      > > cons:
      > > 1) cost
      > > 2) adds weight
      > > 3) adds work
      > >
      > > Thought? Anyone? Anyone?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Bolger rules!!!
      > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
      > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
      > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
      > like
      > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
      > MA,
      > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
      > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
      > Bolger rules!!!
      > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
      > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
      > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
      > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
      01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
      > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • James Fuller
      Epoxy will absolutely stick to epoxy. Non issue. What you have to do is clean the areas you intend to glue to. You can do this with water and scotchbrite
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 1, 2001
        Epoxy will absolutely stick to epoxy. Non issue.
        What you have to do is clean the areas you intend to
        glue to. You can do this with water and scotchbrite
        pads. Then sand the glaze off the area. Then glue away.

        Another way is to cover the areas you intend to glue to
        with polyester dress lining as you cover with glass cloth.
        Squeege the dress lining down. When the glass cures
        pull the polyester off and no cleaning/sanding is required.
        If you are covering full sheets before cutting out pieces
        this method might be a little hard to do.

        James Fuller

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <richard@...>
        To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 11:19 AM
        Subject: [bolger] Re: Glassing both sides


        > Guess we are back to the old argument of whether epoxy will stick to
        > previous coats of epoxy or not... Have to do some testing before I
        > buy stuff I guess.
        >
        >
        > --- In bolger@y..., "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@b...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Glassing before assembly is easier, but some authorities (Reuel
        > Parker, for
        > > one) say that you should leave joining surfaces clean, or sand down
        > to the
        > > bare wood before glueing/taping.
        > >
        > > Jamie Orr
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: richard@s... [mailto:richard@s...]
        > > Sent: August 1, 2001 7:17 AM
        > > To: bolger@y...
        > > Subject: [bolger] Glassing both sides
        > >
        > >
        > > I'm considering glassing both sides of all the ply on the new boat,
        > > with at least a very light layer of cloth. Mainly to prevent
        > checking.
        > >
        > > I would glass the panels and sand them smooth before they went on
        > the
        > > boat. Anyone see any value in this?
        > >
        > > Pros:
        > > 1) No checking
        > > 2) No rot
        > > 3) epoxy makes good primer
        > > 4) wood sealed for outside building
        > >
        > > cons:
        > > 1) cost
        > > 2) adds weight
        > > 3) adds work
        > >
        > > Thought? Anyone? Anyone?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Bolger rules!!!
        > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
        > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
        > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
        > like
        > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
        > MA,
        > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
        > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
        > Bolger rules!!!
        > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
        > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
        > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
        > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
        01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
        > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
      • wmrpage@aol.com
        In a message dated 8/1/01 5:07:39 PM Central Daylight Time, ... Mr. Fuller: Could you elaborate a little bit on this? This technique sounds like it could be a
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 1, 2001
          In a message dated 8/1/01 5:07:39 PM Central Daylight Time,
          james@... writes:


          > Another way is to cover the areas you intend to glue to
          > with polyester dress lining as you cover with glass cloth.
          > Squeege the dress lining down. When the glass cures
          > pull the polyester off and no cleaning/sanding is required.
          > If you are covering full sheets before cutting out pieces
          > this method might be a little hard to do.
          >
          > James Fuller
          >
          >

          Mr. Fuller:

          Could you elaborate a little bit on this? This technique sounds like
          it could be a real labor saver for "Instant Boats"-type hard-chined plywood
          construction. What does this do? Create a rough surface? Inhibit curing?
          Carry off "amine blush"? Is there a limited window of time when the surfaces
          so treated can be successfully bonded before requiring the "scour, rinse,
          sand & rinse" treatment? If I go to a fabric outlet and ask for "polyester
          dress lining", will the saleslady have any notion what I'm asking for? Would
          I be able to recognize it? How on earth did you figure this out? I'm really,
          really intrigued by this concept. It sure sounds like a winner.

          Ciao for Niao,
          Bill in MN


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Lincoln Ross
          According to Platt Monfort, you can use dacron (i.e. polyester) aircraft fabric for this also. Might be a little easier to peel up as I think it s heavier.
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 1, 2001
            According to Platt Monfort, you can use dacron (i.e. polyester)
            aircraft fabric for this also. Might be a little easier to
            peel up as I think it's heavier. Expensive, official material is peel
            ply, which homebuilders of full size airplanes use on layups they want
            to glue to later.

            I don't think there's a time limit on the peel ply technique, as the
            point is to have a mechanical bond. I think it would have rained
            VariEzes if it didn't work.

            Of course if you can get to it in a day or so, you can get a chemical
            bond without sanding, according to Raka.
            --- In bolger@y..., wmrpage@a... wrote:
            > In a message dated 8/1/01 5:07:39 PM Central Daylight Time,
            > james@p... writes:
            >
            >
            > > Another way is to cover the areas you intend to glue to
            > > with polyester dress lining as you cover with glass cloth.
            > > Squeege the dress lining down. When the glass cures
            > > pull the polyester off and no cleaning/sanding is required.
            > > If you are covering full sheets before cutting out pieces
            > > this method might be a little hard to do.
            > >
            > > James Fuller
            > >
            > >
            >
            > Mr. Fuller:
            >
            > Could you elaborate a little bit on this? This technique
            sounds like
            > it could be a real labor saver for "Instant Boats"-type hard-chined
            plywood
            > construction. What does this do? Create a rough surface? Inhibit
            curing?
            > Carry off "amine blush"? Is there a limited window of time when the
            surfaces
            > so treated can be successfully bonded before requiring the "scour,
            rinse,
            > sand & rinse" treatment? If I go to a fabric outlet and ask for
            "polyester
            > dress lining", will the saleslady have any notion what I'm asking
            for? Would
            > I be able to recognize it? How on earth did you figure this out? I'm
            really,
            > really intrigued by this concept. It sure sounds like a winner.
            >
            > Ciao for Niao,
            > Bill in MN
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • James Fuller
            See Lincoln Ross and Vince Chew s answers. They said it better than I could. You might contact Aircraft Spruce and get their catalog. There is a good
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 2, 2001
              See Lincoln Ross and Vince Chew's answers. They said
              it better than I could. You might contact Aircraft Spruce
              and get their catalog. There is a good explanation there on the use of peel
              ply. Also, most of the epoxy mfgrs
              that we buy from in the home building boat hobby offer
              free instructions on the use of their produce which would
              include the use of polyester fabric/peel ply.

              James

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: <wmrpage@...>
              To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 4:38 PM
              Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Glassing both sides


              > In a message dated 8/1/01 5:07:39 PM Central Daylight Time,
              > james@... writes:
              >
              >
              > > Another way is to cover the areas you intend to glue to
              > > with polyester dress lining as you cover with glass cloth.
              > > Squeege the dress lining down. When the glass cures
              > > pull the polyester off and no cleaning/sanding is required.
              > > If you are covering full sheets before cutting out pieces
              > > this method might be a little hard to do.
              > >
              > > James Fuller
              > >
              > >
              >
              > Mr. Fuller:
              >
              > Could you elaborate a little bit on this? This technique sounds
              like
              > it could be a real labor saver for "Instant Boats"-type hard-chined
              plywood
              > construction. What does this do? Create a rough surface? Inhibit curing?
              > Carry off "amine blush"? Is there a limited window of time when the
              surfaces
              > so treated can be successfully bonded before requiring the "scour, rinse,
              > sand & rinse" treatment? If I go to a fabric outlet and ask for "polyester
              > dress lining", will the saleslady have any notion what I'm asking for?
              Would
              > I be able to recognize it? How on earth did you figure this out? I'm
              really,
              > really intrigued by this concept. It sure sounds like a winner.
              >
              > Ciao for Niao,
              > Bill in MN
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > Bolger rules!!!
              > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
              > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
              > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
              > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
              01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
              > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
            • Steve Gillon
              I built a Long-EZ, and used peel ply extensively. It works wonders! Aircraft Spruce sells rolls of the stuff in 1 , 2 3 4 , et cetera rolls, it has pinked
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 9, 2001
                I built a Long-EZ, and used peel ply extensively. It
                works wonders! Aircraft Spruce sells rolls of the
                stuff in 1", 2" 3" 4", et cetera rolls, it has pinked
                edges, so it won't unravel.

                The idea is to let the wax and other stuff in the
                epoxy float through the peel ply, to the surface.
                When you peel the tape off, it brings with it the
                epoxy that is above it, containing all the impurities
                that make epoxy refuse to stick to itself. The
                resulting surface has a cloth-like texture. You can
                sand it down smooth, easily. When you put more epoxy,
                or fiberglass over it, it disappears. If you are
                careful and lay your peel ply down straight, it
                actually looks good, after you peel the peel ply off,
                like a matte border.


                --- Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@...> wrote:
                > According to Platt Monfort, you can use dacron (i.e.
                > polyester)
                > aircraft fabric for this also. Might be a little
                > easier to
                > peel up as I think it's heavier. Expensive, official
                > material is peel
                > ply, which homebuilders of full size airplanes use
                > on layups they want
                > to glue to later.
                >
                > I don't think there's a time limit on the peel ply
                > technique, as the
                > point is to have a mechanical bond. I think it would
                > have rained
                > VariEzes if it didn't work.
                >
                > Of course if you can get to it in a day or so, you
                > can get a chemical
                > bond without sanding, according to Raka.
                > --- In bolger@y..., wmrpage@a... wrote:
                > > In a message dated 8/1/01 5:07:39 PM Central
                > Daylight Time,
                > > james@p... writes:
                > >
                > >
                > > > Another way is to cover the areas you intend to
                > glue to
                > > > with polyester dress lining as you cover with
                > glass cloth.
                > > > Squeege the dress lining down. When the glass
                > cures
                > > > pull the polyester off and no cleaning/sanding
                > is required.
                > > > If you are covering full sheets before cutting
                > out pieces
                > > > this method might be a little hard to do.
                > > >
                > > > James Fuller
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > Mr. Fuller:
                > >
                > > Could you elaborate a little bit on this?
                > This technique
                > sounds like
                > > it could be a real labor saver for "Instant
                > Boats"-type hard-chined
                > plywood
                > > construction. What does this do? Create a rough
                > surface? Inhibit
                > curing?
                > > Carry off "amine blush"? Is there a limited window
                > of time when the
                > surfaces
                > > so treated can be successfully bonded before
                > requiring the "scour,
                > rinse,
                > > sand & rinse" treatment? If I go to a fabric
                > outlet and ask for
                > "polyester
                > > dress lining", will the saleslady have any notion
                > what I'm asking
                > for? Would
                > > I be able to recognize it? How on earth did you
                > figure this out? I'm
                > really,
                > > really intrigued by this concept. It sure sounds
                > like a winner.
                > >
                > > Ciao for Niao,
                > > Bill in MN
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > removed]
                >
                >


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