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Re: [bolger] Re: Glassing both sides

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  • Jeff Blunck
    It may bend harder to some degree but unless it s some radical bending, it s easy to work a tiny bit harder in assembly and have the ease and convenience of
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 1, 2001
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      It may bend harder to some degree but unless it's some radical bending, it's
      easy to work a tiny bit harder in assembly and have the ease and convenience
      of glassing on a flat surface at a decent height. You'd never do it any
      other way once you've tried it.

      Jeff

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <bruce_hector@...>
      To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:48 AM
      Subject: [bolger] Re: Glassing both sides


      > Ive never glassed before assembly. Doesn't this make bending the
      > plywood to the curves much more difficult. Bruce
      >
      >
      >
      > Bolger rules!!!
      > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
      > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
      > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
      > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
      01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
      > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • richard@spellingbusiness.com
      Actualy, I was thinking of glassing only the *inside* of the curves pieces before assembly. It wouldn t make it harder to bend unless you did the *outside* of
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 1, 2001
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        Actualy, I was thinking of glassing only the *inside* of the curves
        pieces before assembly. It wouldn't make it harder to bend unless you
        did the *outside* of the curve.

        --- In bolger@y..., bruce_hector@h... wrote:
        > Ive never glassed before assembly. Doesn't this make bending the
        > plywood to the curves much more difficult. Bruce
      • richard@spellingbusiness.com
        Guess we are back to the old argument of whether epoxy will stick to previous coats of epoxy or not... Have to do some testing before I buy stuff I guess. ...
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 1, 2001
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          Guess we are back to the old argument of whether epoxy will stick to
          previous coats of epoxy or not... Have to do some testing before I
          buy stuff I guess.


          --- In bolger@y..., "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@b...> wrote:
          >
          > Glassing before assembly is easier, but some authorities (Reuel
          Parker, for
          > one) say that you should leave joining surfaces clean, or sand down
          to the
          > bare wood before glueing/taping.
          >
          > Jamie Orr
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: richard@s... [mailto:richard@s...]
          > Sent: August 1, 2001 7:17 AM
          > To: bolger@y...
          > Subject: [bolger] Glassing both sides
          >
          >
          > I'm considering glassing both sides of all the ply on the new boat,
          > with at least a very light layer of cloth. Mainly to prevent
          checking.
          >
          > I would glass the panels and sand them smooth before they went on
          the
          > boat. Anyone see any value in this?
          >
          > Pros:
          > 1) No checking
          > 2) No rot
          > 3) epoxy makes good primer
          > 4) wood sealed for outside building
          >
          > cons:
          > 1) cost
          > 2) adds weight
          > 3) adds work
          >
          > Thought? Anyone? Anyone?
          >
          >
          >
          > Bolger rules!!!
          > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
          > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
          > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
          like
          > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
          MA,
          > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
          > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Lincoln Ross
          I ve used 3/4 oz, or maybe it was 1 oz over all of my Nymph and some of my current project. This is a pain to keep wrinkles out of, but much lighter if you
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 1, 2001
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            I've used 3/4 oz, or maybe it was 1 oz over all of my Nymph and some
            of my current project. This is a pain to keep wrinkles out of, but
            much lighter if you don't need the strength, and cheap. THe weight
            isn't bad if you don't use too much epoxy, people use this weight
            on model planes. It's MUCH easier to do a sheet on sawhorses than to
            do it after the boat is assembled. If you were worried about bonding,
            I suppose you could cut out the pieces, mask the edges about 2" with
            tape, and then peel it back after the epoxy sets. At this weight you
            can just rip it back without a whole lot of trouble, tho maybe some
            more robust tape than masking tape would ensure the very edge of the
            tape peeled up. DOing the sheets flat would save you a LOT of sanding
            and scraping drips! If you're really careful you won't need to sand
            much at all. Try to cut back any overlaps, scrape bumps, etc. maybe 1
            day after putting the epoxy on, then wait as long as you can before
            sanding so it doesn't turn into goo and clog the paper when the
            friction heats it up.

            The necessity of all this depends on how you keep your boat, what you
            paint it with, and what kind of plywood it is. I have a luan boat that
            was painted with latex and lived upside down for two or three years
            outside, in a temperate climate with snow, rain, and sun. Looks fine.
            GUess we lucked out on the quality of that wood. I have a daggerboard
            of Southern Yellow Pine that I made and painted with latex that looked
            awful right away, as soon as I used it. I had a varnished luan boat
            that checked like crazy.

            IT's true that putting on this glass is a fair amount of work. I think
            it would depend a lot on how fancy the boat was. If you were using 3/8
            or thicker ply, I'd consider MDO instead, though I don't have any
            experience with this.

            Epoxy doesn't make a good primer for everything, but I used latex
            primer which stuck to it tenaciously. Maybe if my top coat was latex I
            wouldn't have needed a primer, but I wanted to use silver oil based
            paint.

            I don't think this would keep away rot if you allowed any damage.

            --- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
            > I'm considering glassing both sides of all the ply on the new boat,
            > with at least a very light layer of cloth. Mainly to prevent
            checking.
            >
            > I would glass the panels and sand them smooth before they went on
            the
            > boat. Anyone see any value in this?
            >
            > Pros:
            > 1) No checking
            > 2) No rot
            > 3) epoxy makes good primer
            > 4) wood sealed for outside building
            >
            > cons:
            > 1) cost
            > 2) adds weight
            > 3) adds work
            >
            > Thought? Anyone? Anyone?
          • Jeff Blunck
            Epoxy will adhere to old Epoxy if you rough it up really well with 100 grit sand paper. Using a palm sander, I start with 60 grit then finish with 100 grit
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 1, 2001
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              Epoxy will adhere to old Epoxy if you rough it up really well with 100 grit
              sand paper. Using a palm sander, I start with 60 grit then finish with 100
              grit until the whole surface is scuffed well. Only took me about 15 minutes
              to prep 32' of chine log area along the bottom of my Tennessee.

              This is a mechanical bond and not as good as soaking into the wood but I
              think it's still stronger than the plywood anyway. If your still nervous
              about it, use another 1" wider tape at the joints to compensate.

              Jeff

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: <richard@...>
              To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 12:19 PM
              Subject: [bolger] Re: Glassing both sides


              > Guess we are back to the old argument of whether epoxy will stick to
              > previous coats of epoxy or not... Have to do some testing before I
              > buy stuff I guess.
              >
              >
              > --- In bolger@y..., "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@b...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Glassing before assembly is easier, but some authorities (Reuel
              > Parker, for
              > > one) say that you should leave joining surfaces clean, or sand down
              > to the
              > > bare wood before glueing/taping.
              > >
              > > Jamie Orr
              > >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: richard@s... [mailto:richard@s...]
              > > Sent: August 1, 2001 7:17 AM
              > > To: bolger@y...
              > > Subject: [bolger] Glassing both sides
              > >
              > >
              > > I'm considering glassing both sides of all the ply on the new boat,
              > > with at least a very light layer of cloth. Mainly to prevent
              > checking.
              > >
              > > I would glass the panels and sand them smooth before they went on
              > the
              > > boat. Anyone see any value in this?
              > >
              > > Pros:
              > > 1) No checking
              > > 2) No rot
              > > 3) epoxy makes good primer
              > > 4) wood sealed for outside building
              > >
              > > cons:
              > > 1) cost
              > > 2) adds weight
              > > 3) adds work
              > >
              > > Thought? Anyone? Anyone?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Bolger rules!!!
              > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
              > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
              > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
              > like
              > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
              > MA,
              > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
              > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
              > Bolger rules!!!
              > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
              > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
              > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
              > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
              01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
              > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
            • James Fuller
              Epoxy will absolutely stick to epoxy. Non issue. What you have to do is clean the areas you intend to glue to. You can do this with water and scotchbrite
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 1, 2001
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                Epoxy will absolutely stick to epoxy. Non issue.
                What you have to do is clean the areas you intend to
                glue to. You can do this with water and scotchbrite
                pads. Then sand the glaze off the area. Then glue away.

                Another way is to cover the areas you intend to glue to
                with polyester dress lining as you cover with glass cloth.
                Squeege the dress lining down. When the glass cures
                pull the polyester off and no cleaning/sanding is required.
                If you are covering full sheets before cutting out pieces
                this method might be a little hard to do.

                James Fuller

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <richard@...>
                To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 11:19 AM
                Subject: [bolger] Re: Glassing both sides


                > Guess we are back to the old argument of whether epoxy will stick to
                > previous coats of epoxy or not... Have to do some testing before I
                > buy stuff I guess.
                >
                >
                > --- In bolger@y..., "Orr, Jamie" <jorr@b...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Glassing before assembly is easier, but some authorities (Reuel
                > Parker, for
                > > one) say that you should leave joining surfaces clean, or sand down
                > to the
                > > bare wood before glueing/taping.
                > >
                > > Jamie Orr
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: richard@s... [mailto:richard@s...]
                > > Sent: August 1, 2001 7:17 AM
                > > To: bolger@y...
                > > Subject: [bolger] Glassing both sides
                > >
                > >
                > > I'm considering glassing both sides of all the ply on the new boat,
                > > with at least a very light layer of cloth. Mainly to prevent
                > checking.
                > >
                > > I would glass the panels and sand them smooth before they went on
                > the
                > > boat. Anyone see any value in this?
                > >
                > > Pros:
                > > 1) No checking
                > > 2) No rot
                > > 3) epoxy makes good primer
                > > 4) wood sealed for outside building
                > >
                > > cons:
                > > 1) cost
                > > 2) adds weight
                > > 3) adds work
                > >
                > > Thought? Anyone? Anyone?
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Bolger rules!!!
                > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
                > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you
                > like
                > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
                > MA,
                > > 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
                > Bolger rules!!!
                > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
                > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
                > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
                01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
              • wmrpage@aol.com
                In a message dated 8/1/01 5:07:39 PM Central Daylight Time, ... Mr. Fuller: Could you elaborate a little bit on this? This technique sounds like it could be a
                Message 7 of 14 , Aug 1, 2001
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                  In a message dated 8/1/01 5:07:39 PM Central Daylight Time,
                  james@... writes:


                  > Another way is to cover the areas you intend to glue to
                  > with polyester dress lining as you cover with glass cloth.
                  > Squeege the dress lining down. When the glass cures
                  > pull the polyester off and no cleaning/sanding is required.
                  > If you are covering full sheets before cutting out pieces
                  > this method might be a little hard to do.
                  >
                  > James Fuller
                  >
                  >

                  Mr. Fuller:

                  Could you elaborate a little bit on this? This technique sounds like
                  it could be a real labor saver for "Instant Boats"-type hard-chined plywood
                  construction. What does this do? Create a rough surface? Inhibit curing?
                  Carry off "amine blush"? Is there a limited window of time when the surfaces
                  so treated can be successfully bonded before requiring the "scour, rinse,
                  sand & rinse" treatment? If I go to a fabric outlet and ask for "polyester
                  dress lining", will the saleslady have any notion what I'm asking for? Would
                  I be able to recognize it? How on earth did you figure this out? I'm really,
                  really intrigued by this concept. It sure sounds like a winner.

                  Ciao for Niao,
                  Bill in MN


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Lincoln Ross
                  According to Platt Monfort, you can use dacron (i.e. polyester) aircraft fabric for this also. Might be a little easier to peel up as I think it s heavier.
                  Message 8 of 14 , Aug 1, 2001
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                    According to Platt Monfort, you can use dacron (i.e. polyester)
                    aircraft fabric for this also. Might be a little easier to
                    peel up as I think it's heavier. Expensive, official material is peel
                    ply, which homebuilders of full size airplanes use on layups they want
                    to glue to later.

                    I don't think there's a time limit on the peel ply technique, as the
                    point is to have a mechanical bond. I think it would have rained
                    VariEzes if it didn't work.

                    Of course if you can get to it in a day or so, you can get a chemical
                    bond without sanding, according to Raka.
                    --- In bolger@y..., wmrpage@a... wrote:
                    > In a message dated 8/1/01 5:07:39 PM Central Daylight Time,
                    > james@p... writes:
                    >
                    >
                    > > Another way is to cover the areas you intend to glue to
                    > > with polyester dress lining as you cover with glass cloth.
                    > > Squeege the dress lining down. When the glass cures
                    > > pull the polyester off and no cleaning/sanding is required.
                    > > If you are covering full sheets before cutting out pieces
                    > > this method might be a little hard to do.
                    > >
                    > > James Fuller
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > Mr. Fuller:
                    >
                    > Could you elaborate a little bit on this? This technique
                    sounds like
                    > it could be a real labor saver for "Instant Boats"-type hard-chined
                    plywood
                    > construction. What does this do? Create a rough surface? Inhibit
                    curing?
                    > Carry off "amine blush"? Is there a limited window of time when the
                    surfaces
                    > so treated can be successfully bonded before requiring the "scour,
                    rinse,
                    > sand & rinse" treatment? If I go to a fabric outlet and ask for
                    "polyester
                    > dress lining", will the saleslady have any notion what I'm asking
                    for? Would
                    > I be able to recognize it? How on earth did you figure this out? I'm
                    really,
                    > really intrigued by this concept. It sure sounds like a winner.
                    >
                    > Ciao for Niao,
                    > Bill in MN
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • James Fuller
                    See Lincoln Ross and Vince Chew s answers. They said it better than I could. You might contact Aircraft Spruce and get their catalog. There is a good
                    Message 9 of 14 , Aug 2, 2001
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                      See Lincoln Ross and Vince Chew's answers. They said
                      it better than I could. You might contact Aircraft Spruce
                      and get their catalog. There is a good explanation there on the use of peel
                      ply. Also, most of the epoxy mfgrs
                      that we buy from in the home building boat hobby offer
                      free instructions on the use of their produce which would
                      include the use of polyester fabric/peel ply.

                      James

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: <wmrpage@...>
                      To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 4:38 PM
                      Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Glassing both sides


                      > In a message dated 8/1/01 5:07:39 PM Central Daylight Time,
                      > james@... writes:
                      >
                      >
                      > > Another way is to cover the areas you intend to glue to
                      > > with polyester dress lining as you cover with glass cloth.
                      > > Squeege the dress lining down. When the glass cures
                      > > pull the polyester off and no cleaning/sanding is required.
                      > > If you are covering full sheets before cutting out pieces
                      > > this method might be a little hard to do.
                      > >
                      > > James Fuller
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > Mr. Fuller:
                      >
                      > Could you elaborate a little bit on this? This technique sounds
                      like
                      > it could be a real labor saver for "Instant Boats"-type hard-chined
                      plywood
                      > construction. What does this do? Create a rough surface? Inhibit curing?
                      > Carry off "amine blush"? Is there a limited window of time when the
                      surfaces
                      > so treated can be successfully bonded before requiring the "scour, rinse,
                      > sand & rinse" treatment? If I go to a fabric outlet and ask for "polyester
                      > dress lining", will the saleslady have any notion what I'm asking for?
                      Would
                      > I be able to recognize it? How on earth did you figure this out? I'm
                      really,
                      > really intrigued by this concept. It sure sounds like a winner.
                      >
                      > Ciao for Niao,
                      > Bill in MN
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Bolger rules!!!
                      > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
                      > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
                      > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
                      > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
                      01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                      > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Steve Gillon
                      I built a Long-EZ, and used peel ply extensively. It works wonders! Aircraft Spruce sells rolls of the stuff in 1 , 2 3 4 , et cetera rolls, it has pinked
                      Message 10 of 14 , Aug 9, 2001
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                        I built a Long-EZ, and used peel ply extensively. It
                        works wonders! Aircraft Spruce sells rolls of the
                        stuff in 1", 2" 3" 4", et cetera rolls, it has pinked
                        edges, so it won't unravel.

                        The idea is to let the wax and other stuff in the
                        epoxy float through the peel ply, to the surface.
                        When you peel the tape off, it brings with it the
                        epoxy that is above it, containing all the impurities
                        that make epoxy refuse to stick to itself. The
                        resulting surface has a cloth-like texture. You can
                        sand it down smooth, easily. When you put more epoxy,
                        or fiberglass over it, it disappears. If you are
                        careful and lay your peel ply down straight, it
                        actually looks good, after you peel the peel ply off,
                        like a matte border.


                        --- Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@...> wrote:
                        > According to Platt Monfort, you can use dacron (i.e.
                        > polyester)
                        > aircraft fabric for this also. Might be a little
                        > easier to
                        > peel up as I think it's heavier. Expensive, official
                        > material is peel
                        > ply, which homebuilders of full size airplanes use
                        > on layups they want
                        > to glue to later.
                        >
                        > I don't think there's a time limit on the peel ply
                        > technique, as the
                        > point is to have a mechanical bond. I think it would
                        > have rained
                        > VariEzes if it didn't work.
                        >
                        > Of course if you can get to it in a day or so, you
                        > can get a chemical
                        > bond without sanding, according to Raka.
                        > --- In bolger@y..., wmrpage@a... wrote:
                        > > In a message dated 8/1/01 5:07:39 PM Central
                        > Daylight Time,
                        > > james@p... writes:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > > Another way is to cover the areas you intend to
                        > glue to
                        > > > with polyester dress lining as you cover with
                        > glass cloth.
                        > > > Squeege the dress lining down. When the glass
                        > cures
                        > > > pull the polyester off and no cleaning/sanding
                        > is required.
                        > > > If you are covering full sheets before cutting
                        > out pieces
                        > > > this method might be a little hard to do.
                        > > >
                        > > > James Fuller
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > Mr. Fuller:
                        > >
                        > > Could you elaborate a little bit on this?
                        > This technique
                        > sounds like
                        > > it could be a real labor saver for "Instant
                        > Boats"-type hard-chined
                        > plywood
                        > > construction. What does this do? Create a rough
                        > surface? Inhibit
                        > curing?
                        > > Carry off "amine blush"? Is there a limited window
                        > of time when the
                        > surfaces
                        > > so treated can be successfully bonded before
                        > requiring the "scour,
                        > rinse,
                        > > sand & rinse" treatment? If I go to a fabric
                        > outlet and ask for
                        > "polyester
                        > > dress lining", will the saleslady have any notion
                        > what I'm asking
                        > for? Would
                        > > I be able to recognize it? How on earth did you
                        > figure this out? I'm
                        > really,
                        > > really intrigued by this concept. It sure sounds
                        > like a winner.
                        > >
                        > > Ciao for Niao,
                        > > Bill in MN
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                        > removed]
                        >
                        >


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