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Re: Aircraft Carrier

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  • richard@spellingbusiness.com
    Don t they sell a pontoon kit for the CH 701? ... has ... of ... with ... a ... drains.
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 31, 2001
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      Don't they sell a pontoon kit for the CH 701?
      --- In bolger@y..., bruce_hector@h... wrote:
      > I know it sounds a little off the wall, even for this group, But
      has
      > anyone ever seriously considered a civilian, fixed wing, aircraft
      > carrier? I am. Perhaps doubling Wyoming (how the heck is that
      > spelled, I'm Canadian. Can you spell Saskatchewan?) to 106' @ about
      > 20' beam. With a flat upper deck stressed to take the landing load
      of
      > an ultralight Short Take Off and Landing (STOL) aircraft such as
      > Zenair's CH 701 Zodiac. It lands and takes off in under 75 feet
      with
      > zero wind and has an approach speed of about 30 knots. I think such
      a
      > vessel could quarantee a 15 knot headwind. Which would mean an over
      > the deck approach speed of about 15 knots. Heck, you might not even
      > need any arrester cables. Anyway, I'll be at the messabout this
      > weekend, the idea should sound even better as the rum bottle
      drains.
      > Bruce Hector
    • Fritz Funk
      OK Harry - you ve got, what, 20,000? 30,000? way more? (more than I can count anyway) hours in every type of large and small fixed and rotary aircraft
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 1, 2001
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        OK Harry - you've got, what, 20,000? 30,000? way more? (more than I can
        count anyway) hours in every type of large and small fixed and rotary
        aircraft imaginable. Lets hear some more about what's going on behind those
        eyeballs! A miniature Corsair? I hear a good letter to Phil in the works....

        Talk about boats with an open mind! There's a few lakes I can think of
        that a rig like this combo would open up...no it wouldn't be practical,
        just fun. And its no fair just taking your Blackhawk in there! Would this
        be possible? I'll build the carrier, you build the plane?

        --Fritz

        ----------------
        Fritz Funk
        Email: fritzf@...
        Phone: (H): (907)780-4261 (W):(907)465-6113
        Snail: 6017 Sunset Street, Juneau, AK 99801-9728
        My Boat Page: http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/Boats/Boats.htm
        (Bolger power sharpie Sneakeasy and other projects)
        B-24 Aircrew "Roger the Lodger": http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/B24/
      • bruce_hector@hotmail.com
        With reference to Harry James 20 minutes of dreaming, I ve been dreaming and making nautical hen scratches for months now. I see in the months Houseboat
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 1, 2001
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          With reference to Harry James 20 minutes of dreaming, I've been
          dreaming and making nautical hen scratches for months now. I see in
          the months Houseboat Magazine that Fantasy Houseboats has launched a
          130' X 21' houseboat. There's a photo of the second deck being lifted
          on by crane which lets you see how it could be built with 130' of
          perfectly flat flight deck. Arrester hooks and cables...nah, the CH-
          701 gets down in under 100' with no headwind. How about male velcro
          boots over the tires and female velcro pads near the bow? We're
          taling an approach speed of 30 knots into a minimum 15 kt. wind.
          Closing at only 15! No need for catapaults, although the image of
          slinging it off the bow with a reversed bungee cord bundle comes to
          mind. Although a WAR Replica Corsair coming in with everything
          dragging is a mental picture I thank you for. Perhaps a group could
          get together to fund it. It would be a real challenge to Phil, don't
          know if he'd love it or not. The CAP, Civilian Aircraft-carrier
          Project....could it get off the ground.
        • Matthew, Agnes and Fletcher Peillet-Long
          Wow! A kindred spirit! Miles, the long-gone British aircraft manufacturer best known for its trainers, seriously proposed its Messenger light planes for anti-
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 1, 2001
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            Wow! A kindred spirit!

            Miles, the long-gone British aircraft manufacturer best known for its
            trainers, seriously proposed its Messenger light planes for anti-
            submarine patrol off merchant ships during WWII. The Messenger was a
            low-wing plane with slots and flaps, much like the French/Polish
            Rallye glier tugs. The were to operate from a 60-foot square deck
            with rope arrestor cords and a bungee-sprung net for backup. For
            demonstration flights, they marked out a square on the airfield and
            packed in 5 passengers to represent the weight of equipment and a
            depth charge. It all worked great, but bureaucracy killed it.
            Here's a link to some Messenger pics:
            http://www.bigwig.net/museumofberkshireaviation/miles_extant/messenger
            _g_akvz.htm

            For a real imagination-starter, got to James Wharram's site and check
            out some of his larger catamarans, up to 60'. I would think that you
            could power one of his big cats with a couple of small diesels to
            make a fantastic little carrier. Or, you could go with an ultralight
            on floats and use the boat as a seaplane tender, and get away with a
            much smaller boat.
            http://www.wharram.com

            Keep dreaming!

            Matthew
          • bruce_hector@hotmail.com
            I can t stop the insanity. I ve posted a jpeg to the Bolger2 file folder of the CAP. Civilian Aircraft-Carrier Project. Yes the CH-701 can be put on floats,
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 3, 2001
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              I can't stop the insanity. I've posted a jpeg to the Bolger2 file
              folder of the CAP. Civilian Aircraft-Carrier Project. Yes the CH-701
              can be put on floats, but that would not fulfill my life long dream
              of becoming a fixed-wing carrier pilot. The catamaran idea has some
              merit, but 100-130 feet of deck will still look tiny on approach, a
              60'er would be like landing on a postage stamp. Possible in the 701,
              but with zero room for error, drift, crab, whatever. Such a vessel as
              a doubled Wyoming would make a spacious, to say the least, retirement
              home. It wouldn't be too expensive to operate in the inland waters
              and rivers. Just anchor out to save those horendous marina charges
              and use the launch that would hang on davits below the aft flight
              deck overhang to go in. Cost to build would be in the area of a
              house, and the Zenair costs no more than a new car. It is feasible,
              but is it sane? I may actually have to send this propoasl to Phil for
              the wizards imput. All coments welcome. Bruce Hector
            • Harry W. James
              Ah Rats I had posted my 20 min response, and was happily following the thread but without any involvement. Then last night my eldest son stumbled across the
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 6, 2001
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                Ah Rats

                I had posted my 20 min response, and was happily following the thread
                but without any involvement. Then last night my eldest son stumbled
                across the thread and thought it was really neat. This started a
                conversation which involved quite a bit of teaching and thought on my
                part about carrier ops.

                Everything I build has been built numerous time in my head already, and
                this building is usually done at night, as I fall asleep, when I awake
                in the middle of the night with a really hot idea, or as I wake up in
                the morning. Last night I fell asleep with no thought in my mind but how
                comfy my wife felt next to me, this morning my mind awakened and there,
                unasked for, was The CIVILIAN AIRCRAFTCARRIER PROJECT. AAAH!

                I have been working on a modified Tennessee idea, same hull, but with a
                cabin more suitable to our climate. It is apparent that one of Bolger's
                concerns about these narrow power sharpies is metacentric height. As you
                increase the cabin size and height, the CG moves up making for an
                unstable hull. Putting an Aircraft Carrier deck on one is defiantly
                going to bring the CG up unless you do some really light weight
                construction.

                The walls on the house I have just finished building are foam panels
                with OSB faces, with an occasional 2x6 to carry vertical loads. For the
                Tennessee, I had thought to combine this technique along with some other
                ideas from composite homebuilt aircraft methods. I hear from Fritz Funk,
                that Seth Macinko had been talking to Bolger, and he and Susan had
                already been thinking/experimenting with this technique using veneers
                bonded to construction foam.

                My thought is a really open frame of wood, the wood being where you need
                to frame in openings, and where needed for fastening and in the case of
                cabin sides, to carry vertical loads. The spaces would be filled with
                foam, the same thickness of the wood. I would then bond veener/thin
                plywood both sides and face with fiberglass where needed for abrasion or
                weather proofing. For the carrier deck you would have to go with a
                little more solid construction on the touch down area as this method is
                not that puncture proof.

                I have some veeneers on order to use for experimentation for my
                Tennessee project, I will report back.

                Next, CAP Hull Materials, Pop up steering stations, Pilot safety gear,
                and whatever else comes up in those fertile morning hours of thought.



                HJ

                bruce_hector@... wrote:
                >
                > I can't stop the insanity.
              • bruce_hector@hotmail.com
                Would a doubled Wyoming, 106 feet long with a 16 - 20 foot beam be unstable? She would have the flight deck only 8 feet above it s bottom. With a maximum deck
                Message 7 of 14 , Aug 7, 2001
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                  Would a doubled Wyoming, 106 feet long with a 16 - 20 foot beam be
                  unstable? She would have the flight deck only 8 feet above it's
                  bottom. With a maximum deck height of only half it's beam, on a flat
                  bottom, she'd have a lot of initial and reserve stability. I don't
                  think height will be a problem. 6' 6" head room with 12" laminated
                  roof/deck beams to take the landing loads. She'd be as low as a
                  regular sized Wyoh with tice the length and beam. I'd have nothing
                  above the flight deck except for a 24" high conning station. Even
                  this could be eliminated (or be a pop up as you suggest)and the boat
                  conned from a wheelhouse right forward on the main deck level, many
                  100' houseboats are conned from the main deck, the flying bridge
                  being primarily used as an entertainment centre. Remote video cameras
                  can scan aft.

                  Marina fees would be a bit steep, so anchoring out would be the norm.
                  A good launch could be kept instantly available on davits below the
                  aft flight deck overhang. Have you seen the sketch I posted on
                  Bolger2? What do you think? Mad Bruce
                • bruce_hector@hotmail.com
                  Enough already, I have today composed and sent a snail mail to PB&F requesting Phils opinion on the carrier proposal. I enclosed the cartoon I made of it based
                  Message 8 of 14 , Aug 8, 2001
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                    Enough already, I have today composed and sent a snail mail to PB&F
                    requesting Phils opinion on the carrier proposal. I enclosed the
                    cartoon I made of it based on a doubled Wyoming (see Bolger2 files)
                    and a brief synopsis of what's been posted back and forth about her.
                    I can't wait to hear back from Phil. Surely this is an example of
                    open minded boats clouded by insanity. Since reality is for people
                    who can't handle drugs, I'll have a ration of grog while waiting.
                    Bruce Hector.
                  • bruce_hector@hotmail.com
                    Enough already, I have today snail mailed a query letter to PB&F about the feasability of the Civilian Aircraft-Carrier Project based on a doubled Wyoming
                    Message 9 of 14 , Aug 8, 2001
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                      Enough already, I have today snail mailed a query letter to PB&F
                      about the feasability of the Civilian Aircraft-Carrier Project based
                      on a doubled Wyoming hull. I enclosed the cartoon I'd made of it (see
                      files section on Bolger2 egoup) and a synopsis of the postings on
                      her. I'm sure this qualifies as open minded boating. I can hardly
                      wait to hear his response. Since drugs are for people who can't
                      handle reality, I'm having a tot of rum while I wait. Bruce Hector
                    • bruce_hector@hotmail.com
                      Phil has replied to my carrier letter. Here is his reply, verbatim. He writes on 14 August, 01. Dear Bruce, Thanks for yours of August 8 (came this morning).
                      Message 10 of 14 , Aug 23, 2001
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                        Phil has replied to my carrier letter. Here is his reply, verbatim.

                        He writes on 14 August, '01.

                        "Dear Bruce,

                        Thanks for yours of August 8 (came this morning). All those boats
                        look like nice work.

                        As for the aircraft carrier, it's perefectly feasible in principle,
                        though offhand we'd think your proposed power plants might not be
                        enough. Friction drag, which would be almost all the drag in this
                        case, goes up with the size in more than direct proportion. Also, you
                        have 2.5 times Wyoh's breadth: a cutwater might mitigate that.

                        The bow thrusters would be a T-50 in a concentric well.

                        Let us know, preferably in good time, when you're ready to go on it.
                        We did some work on a 100 X 12 Wyoh type some time ago, but the
                        client backed away at an early stage.

                        Phil Bolger
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