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[bolger] Italian Micro

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  • Marco Vinicio Masoni
    Dear all I ve been in silence for much time, not only to not oppress you with my English (not even comparable to that of my friend Lord Pippo Bianco), but
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 19, 1999


      Laboratorio di Psicologia Dott. Masoni
      Piazza Bolivar, 6
      20146 MILANO - Italy
      Tel. 02-428838
      Fax. 02-47716682
      email: masoni@...
      www.giardino.com/artist/masoni/mason1.html

      "Perciò saranno tutte soltanto nomi Le cose che i mortali hanno
      stabilito, persuasi che fossero vere"
      (Parmenide 8, 38-39)
    • marcoviniciomasoni
      Dear all, I am very happy to be the first builder of an Italian micro (I know that my friend Pippo had begun one of it, but he then has interrupted the job.
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 1 11:13 AM
        Dear all, I am very happy to be the first builder of an Italian micro
        (I know that my friend Pippo had begun one of it, but he then has
        interrupted the job. By the way would I like send you a photo, but how
        cai I send photo in the section "photos"?)
        In a recent e-mail of this forum anybody has written that micro is an
        excellent boat, easy and sure for learn to sail. True. I am 60 years
        old, I have very little experience of sail, but I have built my micro
        and I am learning with him.
        I have only a problem: when the wind is not strongly I am not able to
        veer, I am forced to turn with the wind to the shoulders (you excuse
        but I don't know the English term, in Italian is told "strambare"
        vs " virare( to veer)".
        The boat stays with the bow to the wind and slowly return on the edge
        that I want to leave.
        When the wind is strongly instead there is no problem.
        Could anybody write the steps to follow for veer in a correct way with
        a micro?
        Thank you to all and you excuse my very bad English.(And the
        ripetition of this message)
        Marco Vinicio Masoni
      • Bruce Hallman
        ... Congratulations on the Micro! You are asking how to sail a Cat Yawl rig, which has a big main sail in the bow and a small mizzen sail in the stern. I am
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 1 11:30 AM
          On 9/1/06, marcoviniciomasoni <marcoviniciomasoni@...> wrote:

          >> Dear all, I am very happy to be the first builder of an Italian micro

          Congratulations on the Micro!

          You are asking how to sail a 'Cat Yawl' rig, which has a big main sail
          in the bow and a small mizzen sail in the stern.

          I am guessing that your problem might be coming from the mizzen sail
          grabbing the wind as you try to bring your bow across the wind. I
          suggest you try loosening the mizzen sail sheet so that it does not
          bite the wind as the bow comes around. Sorry, if my English is not
          clear, my Italian is worse!
        • saillips
          ... Well done, friend! I look forward to your pictures. David
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 1 12:02 PM
            --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "marcoviniciomasoni"
            <marcoviniciomasoni@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dear all, I am very happy to be the first builder of an Italian micro
            Well done, friend!
            I look forward to your pictures.
            David
          • marcoviniciomasoni
            Thanks, you can seee some photos on my web site: http://www.formazione-studio.it/esp_innovative_detail.php?esp_innovative_ID=50 ... From :
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 1 10:56 PM
              Thanks, you can seee some photos on my web site:
              http://www.formazione-studio.it/esp_innovative_detail.php?esp_innovative_ID=50

              ---------- Initial Header -----------

              From : bolger@yahoogroups.com
              To : bolger@yahoogroups.com
              Cc :
              Date : Fri, 01 Sep 2006 19:02:22 -0000
              Subject : [bolger] Re: Italian Micro







              > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "marcoviniciomasoni"
              > <marcoviniciomasoni@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Dear all, I am very happy to be the first builder of an Italian micro
              > Well done, friend!
              > I look forward to your pictures.
              > David
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • marcoviniciomasoni
              Thank you. You can see some photos in my web site, in the section La barca terapeutica ( the therapeutic boat):
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 1 10:58 PM
                Thank you. You can see some photos in my web site, in the section "La
                barca terapeutica" ( the therapeutic boat):

                http://www.formazione-studio.it/esp_innovative_detail.php?
                esp_innovative_ID=50

                Marco
              • Joe Tribulato
                Marco I had the same problem with my Oldshoe in light wind. My solution was to get what speed I could first. Then use the rudder just enough, Not too much, not
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 2 12:14 AM
                  Marco

                  I had the same problem with my Oldshoe in light wind. My solution was
                  to get what speed I could first. Then use the rudder just enough, Not
                  too much, not too little. It takes practice. Excess rudder acts as a
                  brake and will slow you down. Then if it still would not tack (veer,
                  english as well) and I hade some speed left I would reach up and push
                  the sail toward the wind. Sometimes it worked. Again, it takes
                  practice. The long keel promotes slow tacking. See photos here:
                  http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/browse/7c99

                  Peppino Tribulato

                  --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "marcoviniciomasoni"
                  <marcoviniciomasoni@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Dear all, I am very happy to be the first builder of an Italian micro
                  > (I know that my friend Pippo had begun one of it, but he then has
                  > interrupted the job. By the way would I like send you a photo, but how
                  > cai I send photo in the section "photos"?)
                  > In a recent e-mail of this forum anybody has written that micro is an
                  > excellent boat, easy and sure for learn to sail. True. I am 60 years
                  > old, I have very little experience of sail, but I have built my micro
                  > and I am learning with him.
                  > I have only a problem: when the wind is not strongly I am not able to
                  > veer, I am forced to turn with the wind to the shoulders (you excuse
                  > but I don't know the English term, in Italian is told "strambare"
                  > vs " virare( to veer)".
                  > The boat stays with the bow to the wind and slowly return on the edge
                  > that I want to leave.
                  > When the wind is strongly instead there is no problem.
                  > Could anybody write the steps to follow for veer in a correct way with
                  > a micro?
                  > Thank you to all and you excuse my very bad English.(And the
                  > ripetition of this message)
                  > Marco Vinicio Masoni
                  >
                • marcoviniciomasoni
                  I posted some photos ( 3 ) of the italian Micro. Now She ( he?) is on Lago Maggiore, north Italy.
                  Message 8 of 10 , Sep 2 3:22 AM
                    I posted some photos ( 3 ) of the italian Micro. Now She ( he?) is on
                    Lago Maggiore, north Italy.
                  • graeme19121984
                    Marco, congratulations on launching your Micro, and on your English which is far better than my Italian. If Google translation of the website has served me
                    Message 9 of 10 , Sep 2 5:38 AM
                      Marco, congratulations on launching your Micro, and on your English
                      which is far better than my Italian. If Google translation of the
                      website has served me properly then am I to understand that your
                      Micro is in some way connected with your therapeutic educational
                      psychology practice? If so I think Mr Bolger would be pleased, as he
                      has made a few designs for youth oriented purposes, and seems to
                      enjoy the task very much. Either way, I am sure that Micro can be
                      therapeutic.

                      The long, shallow, salient keel of Micro does not generate a lot of
                      hydrodynamic lift. That lift is poor at low speed, and in comparison
                      to a fin keel requires a higher speed to generate a certain amount
                      of lift to windward. The centre of the lateral plane of the boat
                      with the salient keel moves appreciably forward as speed increases.
                      This means the distance between the rudder and the effective keel
                      centres is increased thereby giving the rudder greater leverage
                      ability to turn the boat. At least, that is my understanding.

                      You should find that after trying different methods of handling
                      the mainsail, mizzen, and rudder that you will be able to tack ("
                      virare( to veer)"?) at low wind speeds, but sometimes the waves will
                      also stop you. If you have SPACE then you may always reliably change
                      tack by "wearing ship" ("strambare"?? --Bear off or turn away
                      downwind, gybe (( let the wind astern pass from one side to the
                      other)), then head up on the new tack).

                      In very strong wind, under flat out motor power alone, I have found
                      some difficulty also in turning through the eye of the wind. I think
                      there is not enough lee way to generate lift, and cause the keel
                      plane centre to move forward. There remains only a short lever arm
                      between the propellor/rudder and the keel plane centre which cannot
                      overcome the leveraged force of the wind on the high bow topsides.
                      Lowering the mast should help, but I've not tried it. In tight
                      situations it is sometimes best to take a deep breath, be brave, and
                      at the highest speed possible to wear ship. Practice in a safe
                      situation first. The Micro will turn; whereas it may be stopped in
                      turning forwards through the wind, and before regaining steerage way
                      may drift into trouble.

                      Enjoy.

                      Graeme



                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Marco Vinicio Masoni <masoni@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Dear all
                      > I 've been in silence for much time, not only to not oppress you
                      with my
                      > English (not even comparable to that of my friend Lord Pippo
                      Bianco), but
                      > also because I had devoted myself to the construction of the Micro.
                      > This is the first Italian Micro , cronologically, I suppose.
                      > I'm building the boat in the country, 30 km from my house, in a
                      farm that
                      > is also a big therapeutic community for addicts. Having worked for
                      many
                      > years in a juvenile jail as psychologist, They offered this space,
                      so,
                      > working, makes to bear any interest for the boats ( and the job)
                      in the
                      > consumers of the community.
                      > This, illustrated in the photos, it is the point to which I have
                      arrived.
                      > Now there will be the long winter standstill and I then will go on
                      the jobs
                      > in spring.
                      > Merry Christmas to all.
                      >
                      > Marco Masoni
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Laboratorio di Psicologia Dott. Masoni
                      > Piazza Bolivar, 6
                      > 20146 MILANO - Italy
                      > Tel. 02-428838
                      > Fax. 02-47716682
                      > email: masoni@...
                      > www.giardino.com/artist/masoni/mason1.html
                      >
                      > "Perciò saranno tutte soltanto nomi Le cose che i mortali hanno
                      > stabilito, persuasi che fossero vere" (Parmenide 8, 38-39)
                      >
                      --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "marcoviniciomasoni"
                      <marcoviniciomasoni@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Dear all, I am very happy to be the first builder of an Italian
                      micro
                      > (I know that my friend Pippo had begun one of it, but he then has
                      > interrupted the job. By the way would I like send you a photo, but
                      how
                      > cai I send photo in the section "photos"?)
                      > In a recent e-mail of this forum anybody has written that micro
                      is an
                      > excellent boat, easy and sure for learn to sail. True. I am 60
                      years
                      > old, I have very little experience of sail, but I have built my
                      micro
                      > and I am learning with him.
                      > I have only a problem: when the wind is not strongly I am not
                      able to
                      > veer, I am forced to turn with the wind to the shoulders (you
                      excuse
                      > but I don't know the English term, in Italian is told "strambare"
                      > vs " virare( to veer)".
                      > The boat stays with the bow to the wind and slowly return on the
                      edge
                      > that I want to leave.
                      > When the wind is strongly instead there is no problem.
                      > Could anybody write the steps to follow for veer in a correct way
                      with
                      > a micro?
                      > Thank you to all and you excuse my very bad English.(And the
                      > ripetition of this message)
                      > Marco Vinicio Masoni
                      >
                    • John and Kathy Trussell
                      I have found that tacking a ketch or yawl is easier if you ease the mizzen sheet just before the boat goes head to wind. I think (though I don t know for
                      Message 10 of 10 , Sep 2 12:25 PM
                        I have found that tacking a ketch or yawl is easier if you ease the mizzen sheet just before the boat goes head to wind. I think (though I don't know for certain) that this is because the sheeted mizzen acts like a weather vane and its force can resist the turn of the boat.

                        I will leave the science to someone else; it works for me.

                        JohnT
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: graeme19121984
                        To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 8:38 AM
                        Subject: [bolger] Re: Italian Micro


                        Marco, congratulations on launching your Micro, and on your English
                        which is far better than my Italian. If Google translation of the
                        website has served me properly then am I to understand that your
                        Micro is in some way connected with your therapeutic educational
                        psychology practice? If so I think Mr Bolger would be pleased, as he
                        has made a few designs for youth oriented purposes, and seems to
                        enjoy the task very much. Either way, I am sure that Micro can be
                        therapeutic.

                        The long, shallow, salient keel of Micro does not generate a lot of
                        hydrodynamic lift. That lift is poor at low speed, and in comparison
                        to a fin keel requires a higher speed to generate a certain amount
                        of lift to windward. The centre of the lateral plane of the boat
                        with the salient keel moves appreciably forward as speed increases.
                        This means the distance between the rudder and the effective keel
                        centres is increased thereby giving the rudder greater leverage
                        ability to turn the boat. At least, that is my understanding.

                        You should find that after trying different methods of handling
                        the mainsail, mizzen, and rudder that you will be able to tack ("
                        virare( to veer)"?) at low wind speeds, but sometimes the waves will
                        also stop you. If you have SPACE then you may always reliably change
                        tack by "wearing ship" ("strambare"?? --Bear off or turn away
                        downwind, gybe (( let the wind astern pass from one side to the
                        other)), then head up on the new tack).

                        In very strong wind, under flat out motor power alone, I have found
                        some difficulty also in turning through the eye of the wind. I think
                        there is not enough lee way to generate lift, and cause the keel
                        plane centre to move forward. There remains only a short lever arm
                        between the propellor/rudder and the keel plane centre which cannot
                        overcome the leveraged force of the wind on the high bow topsides.
                        Lowering the mast should help, but I've not tried it. In tight
                        situations it is sometimes best to take a deep breath, be brave, and
                        at the highest speed possible to wear ship. Practice in a safe
                        situation first. The Micro will turn; whereas it may be stopped in
                        turning forwards through the wind, and before regaining steerage way
                        may drift into trouble.

                        Enjoy.

                        Graeme

                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Marco Vinicio Masoni <masoni@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Dear all
                        > I 've been in silence for much time, not only to not oppress you
                        with my
                        > English (not even comparable to that of my friend Lord Pippo
                        Bianco), but
                        > also because I had devoted myself to the construction of the Micro.
                        > This is the first Italian Micro , cronologically, I suppose.
                        > I'm building the boat in the country, 30 km from my house, in a
                        farm that
                        > is also a big therapeutic community for addicts. Having worked for
                        many
                        > years in a juvenile jail as psychologist, They offered this space,
                        so,
                        > working, makes to bear any interest for the boats ( and the job)
                        in the
                        > consumers of the community.
                        > This, illustrated in the photos, it is the point to which I have
                        arrived.
                        > Now there will be the long winter standstill and I then will go on
                        the jobs
                        > in spring.
                        > Merry Christmas to all.
                        >
                        > Marco Masoni
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Laboratorio di Psicologia Dott. Masoni
                        > Piazza Bolivar, 6
                        > 20146 MILANO - Italy
                        > Tel. 02-428838
                        > Fax. 02-47716682
                        > email: masoni@...
                        > www.giardino.com/artist/masoni/mason1.html
                        >
                        > "Perciò saranno tutte soltanto nomi Le cose che i mortali hanno
                        > stabilito, persuasi che fossero vere" (Parmenide 8, 38-39)
                        >
                        --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "marcoviniciomasoni"
                        <marcoviniciomasoni@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Dear all, I am very happy to be the first builder of an Italian
                        micro
                        > (I know that my friend Pippo had begun one of it, but he then has
                        > interrupted the job. By the way would I like send you a photo, but
                        how
                        > cai I send photo in the section "photos"?)
                        > In a recent e-mail of this forum anybody has written that micro
                        is an
                        > excellent boat, easy and sure for learn to sail. True. I am 60
                        years
                        > old, I have very little experience of sail, but I have built my
                        micro
                        > and I am learning with him.
                        > I have only a problem: when the wind is not strongly I am not
                        able to
                        > veer, I am forced to turn with the wind to the shoulders (you
                        excuse
                        > but I don't know the English term, in Italian is told "strambare"
                        > vs " virare( to veer)".
                        > The boat stays with the bow to the wind and slowly return on the
                        edge
                        > that I want to leave.
                        > When the wind is strongly instead there is no problem.
                        > Could anybody write the steps to follow for veer in a correct way
                        with
                        > a micro?
                        > Thank you to all and you excuse my very bad English.(And the
                        > ripetition of this message)
                        > Marco Vinicio Masoni
                        >






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