Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

[bolger] Leo's Junk rigged,leeboard AS-29

Expand Messages
  • phil bolger
    Dept. Free Will vs. Considered and Free Advice: We thought we d made the point ONE-on-ONE over the phone, when we invested about 80 mins. of transatlantic
    Message 1 of 1 , Dec 18 8:25 PM
      Dept. Free Will vs. Considered and Free Advice:

      We thought we'd made the point ONE-on-ONE over the phone, when we
      invested about 80 mins. of transatlantic phone-bills trying to save
      your larger boat-building project from losing its integrity with
      mid-stream changes such as the leeboard idea or from more planned
      compromises such as the rig idea. We were this intensely interested
      because we admire anyone in Germany to buck the whole boat-building
      diaspora atmosphere and actually tackle an AS-29. We think this is
      great. The man has guts. Since Susanne is German, further affinities
      kick in to help out and we don't look at the clock much anymore - a
      boat is at stake...

      Recap:

      LEEBOARDS:
      You had proposed to change from the bilgeboard design on the plans to
      leeboards instead.
      - Unlike your statement on your site attributed to us, we like
      leeboards in all dimensions from TV-dinner tray size-clip-ons for dinks
      over WALRUS' 900lbs each UNballasted ice-going 'armor' to those on the
      90' SIR JOSEPH BANKS trader and 126' PHOUMA research vessel. We have
      used them more and more broadly than just about anybody drawing boats.
      - Your reasons for alterations were stated as the need to 'save time to
      get into the water sooner...'. We duly pointed out that properly-done
      leeboards cannot be a 'fix' of some sort to merely be hung on to her
      without significant conceptual, functional and structural consideration
      and construction effort - ergo not a 'fix'. There was plenty of
      opportunity to consider the leeboard-option just early enough in the
      assembly process to actually allow an adequate geometry. From what we
      understood at the time of your inquiry, you were past that point, with
      changes still possible, if doable at all, but surely NOT as an exercise
      of time savings anymore! Finally, as we told you, not every hull-shape
      is suitable to carry leeboards with 'a straight face'.

      CHINESE JUNK-RIG:
      You had proposed a two-masted junk-rigged schooner geometry with about
      10ft more sail-area than AS-29's stock rig. Reasons offered to us was
      concern about dealing with her stock Gaff Cat-Yawl's 20' main boom.
      Plus a hint at apparent unfamiliarity with safely reefing a gaff-rig -
      understandable under the current triangular-dictate in training- and
      charter-fleets.
      - We responded that Phil's mild adventures in his 1960 leeboard POINTER
      (33'LOA)included not only several generations of leeboard attachment
      but also not having his hair parted the wrong way by that Cat-rig's
      28'long boom - on a 5' wide hull-bottom and much lower to the water
      than AS-29's boom could ever sag. In keeping with being quite radical
      POINTER could be scary - Bolger testing the limits... - but in coastal
      cruising she kept bringing him back.
      AS-29's boom is not a wild proposal.
      - And, most importantly, AS-29's Gaff Cat-Yawl rig is part of a rig and
      hull combination that can account for reasonably high performance along
      with balance. Having done a range of junk-rigs, we deemed a junk
      schooner geometry would very likely 'tie her feet' in light of the
      well-documented ill aerodynamics of the type, excacerbated here by the
      schooner's generally inherent disadvantages in pointing over a single
      main.
      - You had read the HILL's fine account of cruising with such a
      geometry. We like that book very well for the spirit it is written in.
      And Phil has met the Hills and BADGER when they stopped by here in
      Gloucester on the way to get that book published. In 3-D their
      execution of her seemed about as shipshape and capable to weather nasty
      stuff out there as anything in that size class. We just wished BADGER
      could do without that keel to go the million places she can not go now,
      do without that hull-shape that is intended for stacking multiples of
      on a Gloucester fishing-schooner's deck off to the Grand Banks, and do
      without that rig, which is one way of easier sail-handling, but could
      be much improved upon aero-dynamically to help keep her off a leeshore
      without for instance that rig's multiple chafing points...

      You had done a lot of serious homework on its history and particulars
      for your project. After contact with the JRA and Blaine's business, you
      were offered enthusiastic support. And we asked you whether the pope
      would ever not want you to come to church. The resulting sketch looked
      good to you and them. Fine. You write us after you are already well
      into the project - again the issue of timing versus serious long-term
      decisions.

      - We've designed the first junk-rigged cruiser in '77/78 - likely
      before the Junk Rig Association joined in symbiotic relations with
      Robin Blaine's commercial SUNBIRD MARINE. The largest one, Design
      #401, carries 1221ft on her main mast. TONWEYAs 1100ft of sail have
      served the mom & pop crew couple well for years. And there are a quite
      few other designs in our files with that rig. So we've done it
      already, read the books, studied the archeology and anthropology of the
      rig geometry. And Hasler/McCloud's work is very important from all
      angles and must be part of rigging history. To further put that
      geometry into general rig-conceptual context see 103 SAILING RIGS by
      Phil Bolger. But the urge to attribute some particular magic wisdom to
      the eastern ancients that 'shall not be tampered with' is in the class
      with George Harrison going to India to find 'his Guru' - hip, at that
      time, and probably with good intentions, but apparently not necessarily
      the universal key to enlightened proceedings afterwards. And even the
      JRA's by now multi-decade and at times tax-payer-supported quest to
      improve the geometry, implies that there is indeed lot's of room for
      advances to make the rig competive with current 'conventional'
      geometries. Furthermore the dictate of the text to keep to a maximum
      size per sail/mast has been successfully 'violated' by us going double+
      without grief. The mile-stone text should not become a rockslide
      blocking the way towards further developments - such as our Chinese
      Gaff first proposed in 1984 and now integrated into designs with sizes
      up to nearly 1600ft on one Chinese Gaff-Sloop example. Again read 103
      SAILING RIGS putting it all into broad context of 2 Junk Rigs versus 3
      Chinese Gaff Rigs versus 98 'other' rigs.
      We understand your urge to do your boat 'just right' for yourself. But
      to start with a 29' cruiser to express personal creativity on the
      magnitude of lateral-plane alterations as sudden brain-storms and
      risking significantly compromizing the performance with dramatic rig
      alterations goes from 'having fun' towards asking for grief. Being in
      the 'diaspora' - as a german correspondent and successful homebuilder
      and bluewatersailor from Sylt put it years ago - the stresses on the
      project to be successful are great enough. Reducing design-integrity
      and thus likely performance are not helpful in that context. Doing
      those changes on the basis of suspicion rather than hands-on experience
      is clearly problematic.

      As we told you in that call, completing her as designed means fast no
      head-scratching/ruminating time wasted - particularly under your time
      pressure then - now? And it means that you'll either learn soon how to
      handle this sort of rig, or you'll know for sure that the 'proper'
      cruising AS-29 requires building two equal-sized mainmasts, along with
      two full-size tabernacles - including one doing a number on the
      stateroom aft - then using the larger gaff main for one of the two
      smaller junk sails. But it seems that you'll never know her potential,
      and you'll still not meet that deadline with all that extra work. And
      that work eats up any presumed economic advantage of the fabled
      'ricepaper-and-bedsheets' claims presumably equal to conventional
      cloth. And you'll still need that meaty sewing-machine (cost/hours) as
      the junk has multiples of seamage over the plain gaff sail... plus
      blocks, running line, chafe-pads/cushions etc., etc. until you are
      finally where you could have gone with the better aerodynamics of our
      Chinese Gaff Rig, with limited-to-no chafing problems, and no
      consulting fees to the deans of the one true eastern faith... And now
      you will find out that she will be slower, will be more likely to pound
      etc.

      Lessons:
      - We wished you had given us the chance early enough to investigate and
      perhaps integrate leeboards on that design.
      - We wished you had asked us about the odds of rig options conceivable
      - with some time - other than the Gaff Cat-Yawl.
      - And we wished you would not show the world the proposed
      'improvements' on your first large boat project using our design
      without checking reality before kicking the web-site into glorous
      colorful gear.



      Dept. Good News:
      There should be a new video out in January 2000 of a significant
      trailer-cruising design...
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.