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Re: Now that there are real Micros here, a rudder question

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  • ellengaest@boatbuilding.com
    Goodmorning David, I have read very few reports about the rudder arrangement suggested by Phil ever failing.In fact Johns Micro BANTY(see files) used this set
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 2, 2001
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      Goodmorning David,
      I have read very few reports about the rudder arrangement
      suggested by Phil ever failing.In fact Johns Micro BANTY(see files)
      used this set up and he once wrote about its success.
      Your desire to go the gudgeon and pintle route does appear to pose
      one wee problem,namely;vertical rudder drift.The reason I say this has
      to do with the method of the G&P installation which requires the
      rudder to be raised a couple of inches before the gudgeon can either
      clear the pintle for removal or placement.The clearance between the
      top of the rudder and the bottom of the boat is not enough to allow
      this amount of travel and I believe that to help protect the rudder
      from accidental bottom hits,it should remain shallower then the keel
      deadwood ahead of it.If you modify your rudder to allow enough
      clearance on the top of the blade,you may at the same time reduce some
      of the"end-plate" effect created by having the rudder swing through an
      arc close to the hull bottom(my blade goes from a scant 3/8" clearance
      all the way to zero when hard over).Also,if you go the G&P route,you
      must have some way of ensuring the rudder does not get lifted off the
      pintles accidentally or else someone will have to dive overboard to
      re-install it.Furthermore,if no method is used to hold the rudder
      down,then I suspect that its slightly positive buoyancy will see it
      forever floating upwards against the hull bottom and in time wearing
      either a nice groove in the bottom,a worn out top edge to your rudder
      or both.This in turn will lead to all sorts of grief from
      de-lamination to hemorrhoids.
      As to the re-shaping of the hole in the bottom to accomodate the
      new arc;so long as the hole is opened further aft there is no problem
      since this is above the static waterline and only floods the
      free-flooding well.Going forward will breach the watertight integrity
      so essential to us little guys.You may also wish to consider how you
      will deal with the hole in the top bracket(the piece attached to the
      cocpit deck,just bellow the tiller clamp on the plans),unless you
      intend on eliminating this piece altogther.
      Sounds like alot of fun David!Anyway,that is my take on
      your situation.Hopefully,some good ideas will be forthcoming soon from
      those better experienced with gudgeons and pintles.
      And fear not,the day a national crisis arrives, me,the pesky crew
      and the boat are going to slip away under the cover of darkness and
      sneak across the border into the land of the free!Yup....Ontario here
      we come!
      Continued success!
      Sincerely,
      Peter Lenihan,glad to have a personal ark in case this rainfall takes
      on biblical proportions,from the shores of the St.Lawrence.........

      --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
      > this is exciting to have yet another Micro in the group. Here is my
      > question of the day to all Micro builders past and present.
      >
      > Has anyone used standard pintle and gudgeons to hang their rudder?
      I
      > have zero confidence in the wooden cleats through a hole in the
      > rudder bottom and then screwed onto the keel. That seems too
      > susceptible to breakage from either trailer transit, or rot. I know
      > that Peter did a first class job with his rudder, and is probably
      the
      > most durable Micro rudder in existance. (I suspect the Canadian
      Navy
      > may commission his ship in the event of a National crisis).
      > What would be the effect of using standard gudgeons and pintles
      > and reshaping the hole in the bottom through which the rudder passes
      > in order to accomodate the oval arc it will travel in? I hope to
      > mount my rudder next weekend, family willing.
      >
      > David Jost
      > Boston, MA
    • djost@ma.ultranet.com
      Peter, thanks for the prompt reply, we obviously have rain of biblical proportions here now, that is why I am here and not under Firefly . I have used G+P on
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 2, 2001
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        Peter,

        thanks for the prompt reply, we obviously have rain of biblical
        proportions here now, that is why I am here and not under "Firefly".
        I have used G+P on other boats with underslung rudders and have
        just hung one of them upside down to lock the assembly in the
        vertical plane. since this is not a removeable rudder, this is not a
        problem. You just unscrew the pintles from the blade to remove the
        rudder and blade.
        the rudder will be at least 3/4" further aft due to the g+P
        clearance needed so the hole may not be that big a deal. This may
        create too much turbulence between the rudder and keel. I had
        forgotten about the piece at the top! that would need to be worked
        on as well or eliminated, I am not so sure I want to do that. In all
        of my dreams about tiller arrangements, that piece is there helping
        to support the tiller as I am leaning on it.
        I guess I will try Bolger's arrangement and just soak
        everything in epoxy to eliminate as much of the rot problem as is
        possible. There are enough sources of white oak around that I am
        sure I can get a real nice piece to carve out for this function. I
        don't think that fir is suitable (strenght issues) and plywood may be
        difficult to fasten to the keel as it would be edge fastened.

        > new arc;so long as the hole is opened further aft there is no
        problem
        > since this is above the static waterline and only floods the
        > free-flooding well.Going forward will breach the watertight
        integrity
        > so essential to us little guys.You may also wish to consider how
        you
        > will deal with the hole in the top bracket(the piece attached to
        the
        > cocpit deck,just bellow the tiller clamp on the plans),unless you
        > intend on eliminating this piece altogther.
        > Sounds like alot of fun David!Anyway,that is my take on
        > your situation.Hopefully,some good ideas will be forthcoming soon
        from
        > those better experienced with gudgeons and pintles.
        > And fear not,the day a national crisis arrives, me,the pesky
        crew
        > and the boat are going to slip away under the cover of darkness and
        > sneak across the border into the land of the free!Yup....Ontario
        here
        > we come!
        > Continued success!
        > Sincerely,
        > Peter Lenihan,glad to have a personal ark in case this rainfall
        takes
        > on biblical proportions,from the shores of the
        St.Lawrence.........
        >
        > --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
        > > this is exciting to have yet another Micro in the group. Here is
        my
        > > question of the day to all Micro builders past and present.
        > >
        > > Has anyone used standard pintle and gudgeons to hang their
        rudder?
        > I
        > > have zero confidence in the wooden cleats through a hole in the
        > > rudder bottom and then screwed onto the keel. That seems too
        > > susceptible to breakage from either trailer transit, or rot. I
        know
        > > that Peter did a first class job with his rudder, and is probably
        > the
        > > most durable Micro rudder in existance. (I suspect the Canadian
        > Navy
        > > may commission his ship in the event of a National crisis).
        > > What would be the effect of using standard gudgeons and
        pintles
        > > and reshaping the hole in the bottom through which the rudder
        passes
        > > in order to accomodate the oval arc it will travel in? I hope to
        > > mount my rudder next weekend, family willing.
        > >
        > > David Jost
        > > Boston, MA
      • ellengaest@boatbuilding.com
        David, In my daftiness,it never occured to me that you could indeed simply reverse or hang upside down one of the pintles!Great!! As to the resulting gap;how
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 2, 2001
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          David,
          In my daftiness,it never occured to me that you could indeed
          simply reverse or hang upside down one of the pintles!Great!!
          As to the resulting gap;how about using a piece of tire inner
          tube,spit length wise,to create a soft flexible shield thus preventing
          the rudder from ventilating?
          Or how about this:get yourself a lenght of s/s threaded rod about 3/8
          to 1/2 inches in diameter by about a foot long.Drill a slightly
          smaller diameter hole up into the base of your rudder stock,make a
          slury of epoxy and drive the rod into this hole leaving about an inch
          to an inch and a half exposed.Then,find yourself a short lenght of s/s
          flat bar of about 1/4" X width of your keel X 12".After cutting out
          about a 10" by 1/4" rabbit in the aft end of the base of the keel into
          which will sit this piece of flat bar,carefully drill a hole slightly
          larger then your size of rod through it.Make sure this hole is
          properly centered/aligned so as to allow your rudder to hang perfectly
          vertical.A couple of nylon washers between this bottom plate and your
          rudder will see things turning smoothly.Snug up from the bottom with a
          locknut just tight enough to remove any vertical movement of the
          rudder.Oh yes,do not forget to drill a half dozen holes,in the flat
          bar,sized to take say a number 10 or 12 screw.This is what will secure
          the plate to the bottom of your keel.Hopefully,there is enough solid
          wood there to permit this in your case.And do try to keep the exposed
          threads of the above mentioned rod epoxy free while you are driving it
          home in its hole.
          Anyway,just a thought in case you still want to try a"beefer"set
          up for your rudder.Either way,let us know your final choice so we
          won't have to go diving under FIREFLY at the LAKE CHAMPLAIN BOLGER
          MESSABOUT to find out the answer ;-)
          Sincerely,
          Peter Lenihan,wishing he had the tools and know how to send drawings
          through cyber space instead of words to confuse innocent builders,on
          the shores of the rainy,+12C.,St.Lawrence..........


          --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
          > Peter,
          >
          > thanks for the prompt reply, we obviously have rain of biblical
          > proportions here now, that is why I am here and not under "Firefly".
          > I have used G+P on other boats with underslung rudders and have
          > just hung one of them upside down to lock the assembly in the
          > vertical plane. since this is not a removeable rudder, this is not
          a
          > problem. You just unscrew the pintles from the blade to remove the
          > rudder and blade.
          > the rudder will be at least 3/4" further aft due to the g+P
          > clearance needed so the hole may not be that big a deal. This may
          > create too much turbulence between the rudder and keel.
        • djost@ma.ultranet.com
          ... I have in my possession about 24 3/8 bronze rods that we have used as plant stakes in the garden for about 50 years! doh! If I can find a 12 piece of
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 2, 2001
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            --- In bolger@y..., ellengaest@b... wrote:
            I have in my possession about 24 3/8" bronze rods that we have used
            as plant stakes in the garden for about 50 years! doh!

            If I can find a 12" piece of bronze 1/4" bronze plate to match, that
            is the way to go. I had thought about this before and had laminated
            up a 3/4" piece of marine ply but abandoned the thought when I
            realized that the piece would be the first to hit some immobile
            submerged object. The answer is obviously to cut a rabbet into the
            keel into which this piece (now bronze) will sit. a couple of
            washers and a locknut and we are ready to rumble.

            Now to find a source for a small amount of 1/4" plate.

            Thanks Peter, you have confirmed my suspicions about this
            technique. I am going to glass the keel tommorrow afternoon, I just
            won't get too fussy over the last 12" of keel base.

            Happy sailing,
            David Jost

            > locknut just tight enough to remove any vertical movement of the
            > rudder.Oh yes,do not forget to drill a half dozen holes,in the flat
            > bar,sized to take say a number 10 or 12 screw.This is what will
            secure
            > the plate to the bottom of your keel.Hopefully,there is enough
            solid
            > wood there to permit this in your case.And do try to keep the
            exposed
            > threads of the above mentioned rod epoxy free while you are driving
            it
            > home in its hole.
            > Anyway,just a thought in case you still want to try
            a"beefer"set
            > up for your rudder.Either way,let us know your final choice so we
            > won't have to go diving under FIREFLY at the LAKE CHAMPLAIN BOLGER
            > MESSABOUT to find out the answer ;-)
            > Sincerely,
            > Peter Lenihan,wishing he had the tools and know how to send
            drawings
            > through cyber space instead of words to confuse innocent
            builders,on
            > the shores of the rainy,+12C.,St.Lawrence..........
            >
            >
            > --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
            > > Peter,
            > >
            > > thanks for the prompt reply, we obviously have rain of
            biblical
            > > proportions here now, that is why I am here and not
            under "Firefly".
            > > I have used G+P on other boats with underslung rudders and
            have
            > > just hung one of them upside down to lock the assembly in the
            > > vertical plane. since this is not a removeable rudder, this is
            not
            > a
            > > problem. You just unscrew the pintles from the blade to remove
            the
            > > rudder and blade.
            > > the rudder will be at least 3/4" further aft due to the g+P
            > > clearance needed so the hole may not be that big a deal. This
            may
            > > create too much turbulence between the rudder and keel.
          • Gregg Carlson
            I don t see how the shaft could turn on centerline with this arrangement. Anyway, I used an ordinary, heavy-duty, steel gate pivot, which like about a 5/8 x
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 2, 2001
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              I don't see how the shaft could turn on centerline with this arrangement.

              Anyway, I used an ordinary, heavy-duty, steel gate pivot, which like about
              a 5/8" x 4" lag screw with a knobby end and vertical pin, galvanised. Hard
              to describe, but you've seen them before...

              Gregg

              At 01:49 PM 6/2/01 -0000, you wrote:
              >this is exciting to have yet another Micro in the group. Here is my
              >question of the day to all Micro builders past and present.
              >
              >Has anyone used standard pintle and gudgeons to hang their rudder? I
              >have zero confidence in the wooden cleats through a hole in the
              >rudder bottom and then screwed onto the keel. That seems too
              >susceptible to breakage from either trailer transit, or rot. I know
              >that Peter did a first class job with his rudder, and is probably the
              >most durable Micro rudder in existance. (I suspect the Canadian Navy
              >may commission his ship in the event of a National crisis).
              > What would be the effect of using standard gudgeons and pintles
              >and reshaping the hole in the bottom through which the rudder passes
              >in order to accomodate the oval arc it will travel in? I hope to
              >mount my rudder next weekend, family willing.
              >
              >David Jost
              > Boston, MA
              >
              >
              >Bolger rules!!!
              >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
              >- no flogging dead horses
              >- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
              >- stay on topic and punctuate
              >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
              >- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
              01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
              >
              >
              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
            • jmcdan@hsonline.net
              I m the John (don t bother, after 53 years, I ve heard ALL ... A little clarification is in order. BANTY s upper rudder bearing arrangement is virtually
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 2, 2001
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                I'm the "John" (don't bother, after 53 years, I've heard ALL
                the "John" jokes) referred to in the following:

                > In fact Johns Micro BANTY(see files)
                > used this set up and he once wrote about its success.

                A little clarification is in order. BANTY's upper rudder bearing
                arrangement is virtually identical to the plans.

                Following experience with another MICRO built per plans, I oversized
                both the rudder stock and lower rudder bearing. The rudder stock is
                2.5 inch diameter white oak. The lower rudder bearing is white oak
                also and is constructed from 2" stock. The upper rudder bear is 3/4
                inch white oak.

                BANTY's rudder is still going strong after 10 years of trailer
                sailing.

                John McDaniel
              • djost@ma.ultranet.com
                Thanks John and Greg, I would love to see some pictures of the rudder arrangements. Do either of you have a polaroid camera and a scanner? I can t quite
                Message 7 of 15 , Jun 3, 2001
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                  Thanks John and Greg,

                  I would love to see some pictures of the rudder arrangements. Do
                  either of you have a polaroid camera and a scanner?
                  I can't quite picture how the gate hinge would work. It would
                  still seem to me to require a little modification of the hole in the
                  bottom abaft frame D, and a modification to the upper bearing since
                  the rudder will now turn in a small arc as opposed to rotating around
                  its axis.
                  The heavy duty white oak idea is interesting to me since we have
                  plenty of it around, this would probably be best for a trailer
                  boat. My boat will spend most of its life at a mooring in salt water
                  so I am real concerned about marine borers and other nasties.
                  To answer Greg's concern as to how the rudder would spin around
                  the central axis with the steel plate idea, the plate would extend
                  aft past the keel for at least 2" so that the hole drilled in the
                  plate would line up with the pin extending from the center of the
                  rudder. The assemble could then be locked down with a lock nut or
                  nut/cotter pin arrangement.

                  David Jost
                  "in need of an ark"



                  > Following experience with another MICRO built per plans, I
                  oversized
                  > both the rudder stock and lower rudder bearing. The rudder stock is
                  > 2.5 inch diameter white oak. The lower rudder bearing is white oak
                  > also and is constructed from 2" stock. The upper rudder bear is
                  3/4
                  > inch white oak.
                  >
                  > BANTY's rudder is still going strong after 10 years of trailer
                  > sailing.
                  >
                  > John McDaniel
                • ellengaest@boatbuilding.com
                  Hello John, I apologize for not being more specific in stating which John .My lazy thinking just presumed we all would recognize you by boat name alone since
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jun 3, 2001
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                    Hello John,
                    I apologize for not being more specific in stating which"John".My
                    lazy thinking just presumed we all would recognize you by boat name
                    alone since you were the first to post a lovely picture of your MICRO
                    in the files section of the group and also as the builder of a Bolger
                    ANTISPRAY of which you wrote about in previous postings.
                    And speaking about ANTISPRAY,how goes your wonderful live-a-board
                    project?Any pictures?
                    Thanks for taking the time to clarify your MICRO rudder
                    installation.I am sure David(Jost) and others in rudder quandary will
                    appreciate both it and its proven longevity!
                    Sincerely,
                    Peter Lenihan


                    --- In bolger@y..., jmcdan@h... wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > I'm the "John" (don't bother, after 53 years, I've heard ALL
                    > the "John" jokes) referred to in the following:
                    >
                    > > In fact Johns Micro BANTY(see files)
                    > > used this set up and he once wrote about its success.
                    >
                    > A little clarification is in order. BANTY's upper rudder bearing
                    > arrangement is virtually identical to the plans.
                    >
                    > Following experience with another MICRO built per plans, I oversized
                    > both the rudder stock and lower rudder bearing. The rudder stock is
                    > 2.5 inch diameter white oak. The lower rudder bearing is white oak
                    > also and is constructed from 2" stock. The upper rudder bear is 3/4
                    > inch white oak.
                    >
                    > BANTY's rudder is still going strong after 10 years of trailer
                    > sailing.
                    >
                    > John McDaniel
                  • colcath@ozemail.com.au
                    -- Dave, There is a small essay and photos on an alternative rudder setup by Larry BUCK in CSD s Common Sense News volume 12 issue 5 on page 3. I don t have
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jun 3, 2001
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                      --

                      Dave,
                      There is a small essay and photos on an alternative rudder
                      setup by Larry BUCK in CSD's "Common Sense News" volume 12 issue 5 on
                      page 3. I don't have the link on hand but its not hard to find.

                      Regards,

                      Col Mooney



                      - In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
                      > Peter,
                      >
                      > thanks for the prompt reply, we obviously have rain of biblical
                      > proportions here now, that is why I am here and not under "Firefly".
                      > I have used G+P on other boats with underslung rudders and
                      have
                      > just hung one of them upside down to lock the assembly in the
                      > vertical plane. since this is not a removeable rudder, this is not
                      a
                      > problem. You just unscrew the pintles from the blade to remove the
                      > rudder and blade.
                      > the rudder will be at least 3/4" further aft due to the g+P
                      > clearance needed so the hole may not be that big a deal. This may
                      > create too much turbulence between the rudder and keel. I had
                      > forgotten about the piece at the top! that would need to be worked
                      > on as well or eliminated, I am not so sure I want to do that. In
                      all
                      > of my dreams about tiller arrangements, that piece is there helping
                      > to support the tiller as I am leaning on it.
                      > I guess I will try Bolger's arrangement and just soak
                      > everything in epoxy to eliminate as much of the rot problem as is
                      > possible. There are enough sources of white oak around that I am
                      > sure I can get a real nice piece to carve out for this function. I
                      > don't think that fir is suitable (strenght issues) and plywood may
                      be
                      > difficult to fasten to the keel as it would be edge fastened.
                      >
                      > > new arc;so long as the hole is opened further aft there is no
                      > problem
                      > > since this is above the static waterline and only floods the
                      > > free-flooding well.Going forward will breach the watertight
                      > integrity
                      > > so essential to us little guys.You may also wish to consider how
                      > you
                      > > will deal with the hole in the top bracket(the piece attached to
                      > the
                      > > cocpit deck,just bellow the tiller clamp on the plans),unless you
                      > > intend on eliminating this piece altogther.
                      > > Sounds like alot of fun David!Anyway,that is my take on
                      > > your situation.Hopefully,some good ideas will be forthcoming soon
                      > from
                      > > those better experienced with gudgeons and pintles.
                      > > And fear not,the day a national crisis arrives, me,the pesky
                      > crew
                      > > and the boat are going to slip away under the cover of darkness
                      and
                      > > sneak across the border into the land of the free!Yup....Ontario
                      > here
                      > > we come!
                      > > Continued success!
                      > > Sincerely,
                      > > Peter Lenihan,glad to have a personal ark in case this rainfall
                      > takes
                      > > on biblical proportions,from the shores of the
                      > St.Lawrence.........
                      > >
                      > > --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
                      > > > this is exciting to have yet another Micro in the group. Here
                      is
                      > my
                      > > > question of the day to all Micro builders past and present.
                      > > >
                      > > > Has anyone used standard pintle and gudgeons to hang their
                      > rudder?
                      > > I
                      > > > have zero confidence in the wooden cleats through a hole in the
                      > > > rudder bottom and then screwed onto the keel. That seems too
                      > > > susceptible to breakage from either trailer transit, or rot. I
                      > know
                      > > > that Peter did a first class job with his rudder, and is
                      probably
                      > > the
                      > > > most durable Micro rudder in existance. (I suspect the
                      Canadian
                      > > Navy
                      > > > may commission his ship in the event of a National crisis).
                      > > > What would be the effect of using standard gudgeons and
                      > pintles
                      > > > and reshaping the hole in the bottom through which the rudder
                      > passes
                      > > > in order to accomodate the oval arc it will travel in? I hope
                      to
                      > > > mount my rudder next weekend, family willing.
                      > > >
                      > > > David Jost
                      > > > Boston, MA
                    • pongo19050@yahoo.com
                      My Oldshoe has a rudder that is very similar to Micro s. I built it prety much according to plan except that I wrapped the hardwood rudder stock in two layers
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jun 4, 2001
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                        My Oldshoe has a rudder that is very similar to Micro's. I built it
                        prety much according to plan except that I wrapped the hardwood
                        rudder stock in two layers of glass tape set in epoxy. I used white
                        oak for the bottom bearing and triple 1/4 ply for the top bearing.
                        The bottom bearing is attached to the keel using big stainless lug
                        screws. I coated all bearing surfaces with expoxy mixed with
                        powdered graphite. Also, I pretreated all of the rudder and keel ply
                        and framing with wood preservative and then painted with bottom paint
                        inside and out. The Oldshoe has endplates on the rudder. I used
                        white oak for these as well.

                        It seems plenty strong. I am planning to keep the boat in the water
                        and so will trailer it only once or twice a year. I let you know how
                        it works out. I hope to launch July 4th.

                        Regards

                        Andy Farquhar
                      • djost@ma.ultranet.com
                        Col, I have been unable to find the link. Does anyone know it? Davdi Jost
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jun 4, 2001
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                          Col,
                          I have been unable to find the link. Does anyone know it?
                          Davdi Jost
                          > Dave,
                          > There is a small essay and photos on an alternative rudder
                          > setup by Larry BUCK in CSD's "Common Sense News" volume 12 issue 5 on
                          > page 3. I don't have the link on hand but its not hard to find.
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          >
                          > Col Mooney
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco
                          David, I posted the whole bunch of CSD (aaaarghhh, I told the dreaded name, shame on me...) newsletters in the files, some time ago. Click on Files (left
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jun 4, 2001
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                            David, I posted the whole bunch of CSD (aaaarghhh, I told the dreaded
                            name, shame on me...) newsletters in the files, some time ago. Click
                            on "Files" (left column of this page), then click on the folder
                            named "CSD Newsletters" (naaaah, I said it again...) and find the one
                            you need. Best, Pippo


                            --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
                            > Col,
                            > I have been unable to find the link. Does anyone know it?
                            > Davdi Jost
                            > > Dave,
                            > > There is a small essay and photos on an alternative rudder
                            > > setup by Larry BUCK in CSD's "Common Sense News" volume 12 issue
                            5 on
                            > > page 3. I don't have the link on hand but its not hard to find.
                            > >
                            > > Regards,
                            > >
                            > > Col Mooney
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                          • vcgraphics@theriver.com
                            David, I hope you found the file where Pippo left it. This rudder mounting mod has bolts held in the hull and rudder with bushings turned by lath from an old
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jun 4, 2001
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                              David, I hope you found the file where Pippo left it.

                              This rudder mounting mod has bolts held in the hull and rudder
                              with bushings turned by lath from an old bronze drive shaft.

                              The fancy approach is probably not needed. The bolts could be
                              held by the Gougeon bros method of drilling a loose fit hole for
                              the threaded fastening, and epoxying the fasteners, well coated
                              with release agent, into the holes. The Gougeons do this with
                              winch mountings, so it must be plenty strong, at least with a
                              sideways force. The release agent allows the hardware to be
                              threaded in and out when need be. Without the bronze bushings
                              fabrication becomes simple.

                              Vance

                              --- In bolger@y..., "Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco" <pippobianco@t...>
                              wrote:
                              > David, I posted the whole bunch of CSD (aaaarghhh, I told the
                              dreaded
                              > name, shame on me...) newsletters in the files,
                            • djost@ma.ultranet.com
                              Vance and Pippo, Thank you for pointing me in the right direction to the files! This is the approach that I have chosen with a couple of small modifictions. 1.
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jun 5, 2001
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                                Vance and Pippo,
                                Thank you for pointing me in the right direction to the files!
                                This is the approach that I have chosen with a couple of small
                                modifictions.

                                1. I have ordered a 14" piece of 2"X 1/4" bronze plate to be rabbeted
                                into the keel (full width side to side) and will tap it for (6) 3" #10
                                silicon bronze screws set in epoxy with release agent (wax) on the
                                screws.

                                2. I was planning on using a bronze rod inserted into the post, but I
                                can see that a suitable bronze bolt may be a lot simpler if set in the
                                epoxy bushing! I may build a test piece to see how difficult this may
                                be.

                                3. a bronze washer epoxied on the rudder will serve as a bearing
                                surface. I still have a can of WEST graphite so will probably coat
                                both surfaces with it since it is easy to redo when it wears. It also
                                will help with the pivot.


                                Many thanks for the help.
                                David Jost
                                >
                                > Vance
                                >
                                > --- In bolger@y..., "Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco" <pippobianco@t...>
                                > wrote:
                                > > David, I posted the whole bunch of CSD (aaaarghhh, I told the
                                > dreaded
                                > > name, shame on me...) newsletters in the files,
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