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Now that there are real Micros here, a rudder question

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  • djost@ma.ultranet.com
    this is exciting to have yet another Micro in the group. Here is my question of the day to all Micro builders past and present. Has anyone used standard
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 2, 2001
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      this is exciting to have yet another Micro in the group. Here is my
      question of the day to all Micro builders past and present.

      Has anyone used standard pintle and gudgeons to hang their rudder? I
      have zero confidence in the wooden cleats through a hole in the
      rudder bottom and then screwed onto the keel. That seems too
      susceptible to breakage from either trailer transit, or rot. I know
      that Peter did a first class job with his rudder, and is probably the
      most durable Micro rudder in existance. (I suspect the Canadian Navy
      may commission his ship in the event of a National crisis).
      What would be the effect of using standard gudgeons and pintles
      and reshaping the hole in the bottom through which the rudder passes
      in order to accomodate the oval arc it will travel in? I hope to
      mount my rudder next weekend, family willing.

      David Jost
      Boston, MA
    • ellengaest@boatbuilding.com
      Goodmorning David, I have read very few reports about the rudder arrangement suggested by Phil ever failing.In fact Johns Micro BANTY(see files) used this set
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 2, 2001
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        Goodmorning David,
        I have read very few reports about the rudder arrangement
        suggested by Phil ever failing.In fact Johns Micro BANTY(see files)
        used this set up and he once wrote about its success.
        Your desire to go the gudgeon and pintle route does appear to pose
        one wee problem,namely;vertical rudder drift.The reason I say this has
        to do with the method of the G&P installation which requires the
        rudder to be raised a couple of inches before the gudgeon can either
        clear the pintle for removal or placement.The clearance between the
        top of the rudder and the bottom of the boat is not enough to allow
        this amount of travel and I believe that to help protect the rudder
        from accidental bottom hits,it should remain shallower then the keel
        deadwood ahead of it.If you modify your rudder to allow enough
        clearance on the top of the blade,you may at the same time reduce some
        of the"end-plate" effect created by having the rudder swing through an
        arc close to the hull bottom(my blade goes from a scant 3/8" clearance
        all the way to zero when hard over).Also,if you go the G&P route,you
        must have some way of ensuring the rudder does not get lifted off the
        pintles accidentally or else someone will have to dive overboard to
        re-install it.Furthermore,if no method is used to hold the rudder
        down,then I suspect that its slightly positive buoyancy will see it
        forever floating upwards against the hull bottom and in time wearing
        either a nice groove in the bottom,a worn out top edge to your rudder
        or both.This in turn will lead to all sorts of grief from
        de-lamination to hemorrhoids.
        As to the re-shaping of the hole in the bottom to accomodate the
        new arc;so long as the hole is opened further aft there is no problem
        since this is above the static waterline and only floods the
        free-flooding well.Going forward will breach the watertight integrity
        so essential to us little guys.You may also wish to consider how you
        will deal with the hole in the top bracket(the piece attached to the
        cocpit deck,just bellow the tiller clamp on the plans),unless you
        intend on eliminating this piece altogther.
        Sounds like alot of fun David!Anyway,that is my take on
        your situation.Hopefully,some good ideas will be forthcoming soon from
        those better experienced with gudgeons and pintles.
        And fear not,the day a national crisis arrives, me,the pesky crew
        and the boat are going to slip away under the cover of darkness and
        sneak across the border into the land of the free!Yup....Ontario here
        we come!
        Continued success!
        Sincerely,
        Peter Lenihan,glad to have a personal ark in case this rainfall takes
        on biblical proportions,from the shores of the St.Lawrence.........

        --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
        > this is exciting to have yet another Micro in the group. Here is my
        > question of the day to all Micro builders past and present.
        >
        > Has anyone used standard pintle and gudgeons to hang their rudder?
        I
        > have zero confidence in the wooden cleats through a hole in the
        > rudder bottom and then screwed onto the keel. That seems too
        > susceptible to breakage from either trailer transit, or rot. I know
        > that Peter did a first class job with his rudder, and is probably
        the
        > most durable Micro rudder in existance. (I suspect the Canadian
        Navy
        > may commission his ship in the event of a National crisis).
        > What would be the effect of using standard gudgeons and pintles
        > and reshaping the hole in the bottom through which the rudder passes
        > in order to accomodate the oval arc it will travel in? I hope to
        > mount my rudder next weekend, family willing.
        >
        > David Jost
        > Boston, MA
      • djost@ma.ultranet.com
        Peter, thanks for the prompt reply, we obviously have rain of biblical proportions here now, that is why I am here and not under Firefly . I have used G+P on
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 2, 2001
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          Peter,

          thanks for the prompt reply, we obviously have rain of biblical
          proportions here now, that is why I am here and not under "Firefly".
          I have used G+P on other boats with underslung rudders and have
          just hung one of them upside down to lock the assembly in the
          vertical plane. since this is not a removeable rudder, this is not a
          problem. You just unscrew the pintles from the blade to remove the
          rudder and blade.
          the rudder will be at least 3/4" further aft due to the g+P
          clearance needed so the hole may not be that big a deal. This may
          create too much turbulence between the rudder and keel. I had
          forgotten about the piece at the top! that would need to be worked
          on as well or eliminated, I am not so sure I want to do that. In all
          of my dreams about tiller arrangements, that piece is there helping
          to support the tiller as I am leaning on it.
          I guess I will try Bolger's arrangement and just soak
          everything in epoxy to eliminate as much of the rot problem as is
          possible. There are enough sources of white oak around that I am
          sure I can get a real nice piece to carve out for this function. I
          don't think that fir is suitable (strenght issues) and plywood may be
          difficult to fasten to the keel as it would be edge fastened.

          > new arc;so long as the hole is opened further aft there is no
          problem
          > since this is above the static waterline and only floods the
          > free-flooding well.Going forward will breach the watertight
          integrity
          > so essential to us little guys.You may also wish to consider how
          you
          > will deal with the hole in the top bracket(the piece attached to
          the
          > cocpit deck,just bellow the tiller clamp on the plans),unless you
          > intend on eliminating this piece altogther.
          > Sounds like alot of fun David!Anyway,that is my take on
          > your situation.Hopefully,some good ideas will be forthcoming soon
          from
          > those better experienced with gudgeons and pintles.
          > And fear not,the day a national crisis arrives, me,the pesky
          crew
          > and the boat are going to slip away under the cover of darkness and
          > sneak across the border into the land of the free!Yup....Ontario
          here
          > we come!
          > Continued success!
          > Sincerely,
          > Peter Lenihan,glad to have a personal ark in case this rainfall
          takes
          > on biblical proportions,from the shores of the
          St.Lawrence.........
          >
          > --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
          > > this is exciting to have yet another Micro in the group. Here is
          my
          > > question of the day to all Micro builders past and present.
          > >
          > > Has anyone used standard pintle and gudgeons to hang their
          rudder?
          > I
          > > have zero confidence in the wooden cleats through a hole in the
          > > rudder bottom and then screwed onto the keel. That seems too
          > > susceptible to breakage from either trailer transit, or rot. I
          know
          > > that Peter did a first class job with his rudder, and is probably
          > the
          > > most durable Micro rudder in existance. (I suspect the Canadian
          > Navy
          > > may commission his ship in the event of a National crisis).
          > > What would be the effect of using standard gudgeons and
          pintles
          > > and reshaping the hole in the bottom through which the rudder
          passes
          > > in order to accomodate the oval arc it will travel in? I hope to
          > > mount my rudder next weekend, family willing.
          > >
          > > David Jost
          > > Boston, MA
        • ellengaest@boatbuilding.com
          David, In my daftiness,it never occured to me that you could indeed simply reverse or hang upside down one of the pintles!Great!! As to the resulting gap;how
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 2, 2001
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            David,
            In my daftiness,it never occured to me that you could indeed
            simply reverse or hang upside down one of the pintles!Great!!
            As to the resulting gap;how about using a piece of tire inner
            tube,spit length wise,to create a soft flexible shield thus preventing
            the rudder from ventilating?
            Or how about this:get yourself a lenght of s/s threaded rod about 3/8
            to 1/2 inches in diameter by about a foot long.Drill a slightly
            smaller diameter hole up into the base of your rudder stock,make a
            slury of epoxy and drive the rod into this hole leaving about an inch
            to an inch and a half exposed.Then,find yourself a short lenght of s/s
            flat bar of about 1/4" X width of your keel X 12".After cutting out
            about a 10" by 1/4" rabbit in the aft end of the base of the keel into
            which will sit this piece of flat bar,carefully drill a hole slightly
            larger then your size of rod through it.Make sure this hole is
            properly centered/aligned so as to allow your rudder to hang perfectly
            vertical.A couple of nylon washers between this bottom plate and your
            rudder will see things turning smoothly.Snug up from the bottom with a
            locknut just tight enough to remove any vertical movement of the
            rudder.Oh yes,do not forget to drill a half dozen holes,in the flat
            bar,sized to take say a number 10 or 12 screw.This is what will secure
            the plate to the bottom of your keel.Hopefully,there is enough solid
            wood there to permit this in your case.And do try to keep the exposed
            threads of the above mentioned rod epoxy free while you are driving it
            home in its hole.
            Anyway,just a thought in case you still want to try a"beefer"set
            up for your rudder.Either way,let us know your final choice so we
            won't have to go diving under FIREFLY at the LAKE CHAMPLAIN BOLGER
            MESSABOUT to find out the answer ;-)
            Sincerely,
            Peter Lenihan,wishing he had the tools and know how to send drawings
            through cyber space instead of words to confuse innocent builders,on
            the shores of the rainy,+12C.,St.Lawrence..........


            --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
            > Peter,
            >
            > thanks for the prompt reply, we obviously have rain of biblical
            > proportions here now, that is why I am here and not under "Firefly".
            > I have used G+P on other boats with underslung rudders and have
            > just hung one of them upside down to lock the assembly in the
            > vertical plane. since this is not a removeable rudder, this is not
            a
            > problem. You just unscrew the pintles from the blade to remove the
            > rudder and blade.
            > the rudder will be at least 3/4" further aft due to the g+P
            > clearance needed so the hole may not be that big a deal. This may
            > create too much turbulence between the rudder and keel.
          • djost@ma.ultranet.com
            ... I have in my possession about 24 3/8 bronze rods that we have used as plant stakes in the garden for about 50 years! doh! If I can find a 12 piece of
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 2, 2001
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              --- In bolger@y..., ellengaest@b... wrote:
              I have in my possession about 24 3/8" bronze rods that we have used
              as plant stakes in the garden for about 50 years! doh!

              If I can find a 12" piece of bronze 1/4" bronze plate to match, that
              is the way to go. I had thought about this before and had laminated
              up a 3/4" piece of marine ply but abandoned the thought when I
              realized that the piece would be the first to hit some immobile
              submerged object. The answer is obviously to cut a rabbet into the
              keel into which this piece (now bronze) will sit. a couple of
              washers and a locknut and we are ready to rumble.

              Now to find a source for a small amount of 1/4" plate.

              Thanks Peter, you have confirmed my suspicions about this
              technique. I am going to glass the keel tommorrow afternoon, I just
              won't get too fussy over the last 12" of keel base.

              Happy sailing,
              David Jost

              > locknut just tight enough to remove any vertical movement of the
              > rudder.Oh yes,do not forget to drill a half dozen holes,in the flat
              > bar,sized to take say a number 10 or 12 screw.This is what will
              secure
              > the plate to the bottom of your keel.Hopefully,there is enough
              solid
              > wood there to permit this in your case.And do try to keep the
              exposed
              > threads of the above mentioned rod epoxy free while you are driving
              it
              > home in its hole.
              > Anyway,just a thought in case you still want to try
              a"beefer"set
              > up for your rudder.Either way,let us know your final choice so we
              > won't have to go diving under FIREFLY at the LAKE CHAMPLAIN BOLGER
              > MESSABOUT to find out the answer ;-)
              > Sincerely,
              > Peter Lenihan,wishing he had the tools and know how to send
              drawings
              > through cyber space instead of words to confuse innocent
              builders,on
              > the shores of the rainy,+12C.,St.Lawrence..........
              >
              >
              > --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
              > > Peter,
              > >
              > > thanks for the prompt reply, we obviously have rain of
              biblical
              > > proportions here now, that is why I am here and not
              under "Firefly".
              > > I have used G+P on other boats with underslung rudders and
              have
              > > just hung one of them upside down to lock the assembly in the
              > > vertical plane. since this is not a removeable rudder, this is
              not
              > a
              > > problem. You just unscrew the pintles from the blade to remove
              the
              > > rudder and blade.
              > > the rudder will be at least 3/4" further aft due to the g+P
              > > clearance needed so the hole may not be that big a deal. This
              may
              > > create too much turbulence between the rudder and keel.
            • Gregg Carlson
              I don t see how the shaft could turn on centerline with this arrangement. Anyway, I used an ordinary, heavy-duty, steel gate pivot, which like about a 5/8 x
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 2, 2001
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                I don't see how the shaft could turn on centerline with this arrangement.

                Anyway, I used an ordinary, heavy-duty, steel gate pivot, which like about
                a 5/8" x 4" lag screw with a knobby end and vertical pin, galvanised. Hard
                to describe, but you've seen them before...

                Gregg

                At 01:49 PM 6/2/01 -0000, you wrote:
                >this is exciting to have yet another Micro in the group. Here is my
                >question of the day to all Micro builders past and present.
                >
                >Has anyone used standard pintle and gudgeons to hang their rudder? I
                >have zero confidence in the wooden cleats through a hole in the
                >rudder bottom and then screwed onto the keel. That seems too
                >susceptible to breakage from either trailer transit, or rot. I know
                >that Peter did a first class job with his rudder, and is probably the
                >most durable Micro rudder in existance. (I suspect the Canadian Navy
                >may commission his ship in the event of a National crisis).
                > What would be the effect of using standard gudgeons and pintles
                >and reshaping the hole in the bottom through which the rudder passes
                >in order to accomodate the oval arc it will travel in? I hope to
                >mount my rudder next weekend, family willing.
                >
                >David Jost
                > Boston, MA
                >
                >
                >Bolger rules!!!
                >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
                >- no flogging dead horses
                >- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                >- stay on topic and punctuate
                >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                >- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
                01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                >
                >
                >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
              • jmcdan@hsonline.net
                I m the John (don t bother, after 53 years, I ve heard ALL ... A little clarification is in order. BANTY s upper rudder bearing arrangement is virtually
                Message 7 of 15 , Jun 2, 2001
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                  I'm the "John" (don't bother, after 53 years, I've heard ALL
                  the "John" jokes) referred to in the following:

                  > In fact Johns Micro BANTY(see files)
                  > used this set up and he once wrote about its success.

                  A little clarification is in order. BANTY's upper rudder bearing
                  arrangement is virtually identical to the plans.

                  Following experience with another MICRO built per plans, I oversized
                  both the rudder stock and lower rudder bearing. The rudder stock is
                  2.5 inch diameter white oak. The lower rudder bearing is white oak
                  also and is constructed from 2" stock. The upper rudder bear is 3/4
                  inch white oak.

                  BANTY's rudder is still going strong after 10 years of trailer
                  sailing.

                  John McDaniel
                • djost@ma.ultranet.com
                  Thanks John and Greg, I would love to see some pictures of the rudder arrangements. Do either of you have a polaroid camera and a scanner? I can t quite
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jun 3, 2001
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                    Thanks John and Greg,

                    I would love to see some pictures of the rudder arrangements. Do
                    either of you have a polaroid camera and a scanner?
                    I can't quite picture how the gate hinge would work. It would
                    still seem to me to require a little modification of the hole in the
                    bottom abaft frame D, and a modification to the upper bearing since
                    the rudder will now turn in a small arc as opposed to rotating around
                    its axis.
                    The heavy duty white oak idea is interesting to me since we have
                    plenty of it around, this would probably be best for a trailer
                    boat. My boat will spend most of its life at a mooring in salt water
                    so I am real concerned about marine borers and other nasties.
                    To answer Greg's concern as to how the rudder would spin around
                    the central axis with the steel plate idea, the plate would extend
                    aft past the keel for at least 2" so that the hole drilled in the
                    plate would line up with the pin extending from the center of the
                    rudder. The assemble could then be locked down with a lock nut or
                    nut/cotter pin arrangement.

                    David Jost
                    "in need of an ark"



                    > Following experience with another MICRO built per plans, I
                    oversized
                    > both the rudder stock and lower rudder bearing. The rudder stock is
                    > 2.5 inch diameter white oak. The lower rudder bearing is white oak
                    > also and is constructed from 2" stock. The upper rudder bear is
                    3/4
                    > inch white oak.
                    >
                    > BANTY's rudder is still going strong after 10 years of trailer
                    > sailing.
                    >
                    > John McDaniel
                  • ellengaest@boatbuilding.com
                    Hello John, I apologize for not being more specific in stating which John .My lazy thinking just presumed we all would recognize you by boat name alone since
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jun 3, 2001
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                      Hello John,
                      I apologize for not being more specific in stating which"John".My
                      lazy thinking just presumed we all would recognize you by boat name
                      alone since you were the first to post a lovely picture of your MICRO
                      in the files section of the group and also as the builder of a Bolger
                      ANTISPRAY of which you wrote about in previous postings.
                      And speaking about ANTISPRAY,how goes your wonderful live-a-board
                      project?Any pictures?
                      Thanks for taking the time to clarify your MICRO rudder
                      installation.I am sure David(Jost) and others in rudder quandary will
                      appreciate both it and its proven longevity!
                      Sincerely,
                      Peter Lenihan


                      --- In bolger@y..., jmcdan@h... wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > I'm the "John" (don't bother, after 53 years, I've heard ALL
                      > the "John" jokes) referred to in the following:
                      >
                      > > In fact Johns Micro BANTY(see files)
                      > > used this set up and he once wrote about its success.
                      >
                      > A little clarification is in order. BANTY's upper rudder bearing
                      > arrangement is virtually identical to the plans.
                      >
                      > Following experience with another MICRO built per plans, I oversized
                      > both the rudder stock and lower rudder bearing. The rudder stock is
                      > 2.5 inch diameter white oak. The lower rudder bearing is white oak
                      > also and is constructed from 2" stock. The upper rudder bear is 3/4
                      > inch white oak.
                      >
                      > BANTY's rudder is still going strong after 10 years of trailer
                      > sailing.
                      >
                      > John McDaniel
                    • colcath@ozemail.com.au
                      -- Dave, There is a small essay and photos on an alternative rudder setup by Larry BUCK in CSD s Common Sense News volume 12 issue 5 on page 3. I don t have
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jun 3, 2001
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                        --

                        Dave,
                        There is a small essay and photos on an alternative rudder
                        setup by Larry BUCK in CSD's "Common Sense News" volume 12 issue 5 on
                        page 3. I don't have the link on hand but its not hard to find.

                        Regards,

                        Col Mooney



                        - In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
                        > Peter,
                        >
                        > thanks for the prompt reply, we obviously have rain of biblical
                        > proportions here now, that is why I am here and not under "Firefly".
                        > I have used G+P on other boats with underslung rudders and
                        have
                        > just hung one of them upside down to lock the assembly in the
                        > vertical plane. since this is not a removeable rudder, this is not
                        a
                        > problem. You just unscrew the pintles from the blade to remove the
                        > rudder and blade.
                        > the rudder will be at least 3/4" further aft due to the g+P
                        > clearance needed so the hole may not be that big a deal. This may
                        > create too much turbulence between the rudder and keel. I had
                        > forgotten about the piece at the top! that would need to be worked
                        > on as well or eliminated, I am not so sure I want to do that. In
                        all
                        > of my dreams about tiller arrangements, that piece is there helping
                        > to support the tiller as I am leaning on it.
                        > I guess I will try Bolger's arrangement and just soak
                        > everything in epoxy to eliminate as much of the rot problem as is
                        > possible. There are enough sources of white oak around that I am
                        > sure I can get a real nice piece to carve out for this function. I
                        > don't think that fir is suitable (strenght issues) and plywood may
                        be
                        > difficult to fasten to the keel as it would be edge fastened.
                        >
                        > > new arc;so long as the hole is opened further aft there is no
                        > problem
                        > > since this is above the static waterline and only floods the
                        > > free-flooding well.Going forward will breach the watertight
                        > integrity
                        > > so essential to us little guys.You may also wish to consider how
                        > you
                        > > will deal with the hole in the top bracket(the piece attached to
                        > the
                        > > cocpit deck,just bellow the tiller clamp on the plans),unless you
                        > > intend on eliminating this piece altogther.
                        > > Sounds like alot of fun David!Anyway,that is my take on
                        > > your situation.Hopefully,some good ideas will be forthcoming soon
                        > from
                        > > those better experienced with gudgeons and pintles.
                        > > And fear not,the day a national crisis arrives, me,the pesky
                        > crew
                        > > and the boat are going to slip away under the cover of darkness
                        and
                        > > sneak across the border into the land of the free!Yup....Ontario
                        > here
                        > > we come!
                        > > Continued success!
                        > > Sincerely,
                        > > Peter Lenihan,glad to have a personal ark in case this rainfall
                        > takes
                        > > on biblical proportions,from the shores of the
                        > St.Lawrence.........
                        > >
                        > > --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
                        > > > this is exciting to have yet another Micro in the group. Here
                        is
                        > my
                        > > > question of the day to all Micro builders past and present.
                        > > >
                        > > > Has anyone used standard pintle and gudgeons to hang their
                        > rudder?
                        > > I
                        > > > have zero confidence in the wooden cleats through a hole in the
                        > > > rudder bottom and then screwed onto the keel. That seems too
                        > > > susceptible to breakage from either trailer transit, or rot. I
                        > know
                        > > > that Peter did a first class job with his rudder, and is
                        probably
                        > > the
                        > > > most durable Micro rudder in existance. (I suspect the
                        Canadian
                        > > Navy
                        > > > may commission his ship in the event of a National crisis).
                        > > > What would be the effect of using standard gudgeons and
                        > pintles
                        > > > and reshaping the hole in the bottom through which the rudder
                        > passes
                        > > > in order to accomodate the oval arc it will travel in? I hope
                        to
                        > > > mount my rudder next weekend, family willing.
                        > > >
                        > > > David Jost
                        > > > Boston, MA
                      • pongo19050@yahoo.com
                        My Oldshoe has a rudder that is very similar to Micro s. I built it prety much according to plan except that I wrapped the hardwood rudder stock in two layers
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jun 4, 2001
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                          My Oldshoe has a rudder that is very similar to Micro's. I built it
                          prety much according to plan except that I wrapped the hardwood
                          rudder stock in two layers of glass tape set in epoxy. I used white
                          oak for the bottom bearing and triple 1/4 ply for the top bearing.
                          The bottom bearing is attached to the keel using big stainless lug
                          screws. I coated all bearing surfaces with expoxy mixed with
                          powdered graphite. Also, I pretreated all of the rudder and keel ply
                          and framing with wood preservative and then painted with bottom paint
                          inside and out. The Oldshoe has endplates on the rudder. I used
                          white oak for these as well.

                          It seems plenty strong. I am planning to keep the boat in the water
                          and so will trailer it only once or twice a year. I let you know how
                          it works out. I hope to launch July 4th.

                          Regards

                          Andy Farquhar
                        • djost@ma.ultranet.com
                          Col, I have been unable to find the link. Does anyone know it? Davdi Jost
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jun 4, 2001
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                            Col,
                            I have been unable to find the link. Does anyone know it?
                            Davdi Jost
                            > Dave,
                            > There is a small essay and photos on an alternative rudder
                            > setup by Larry BUCK in CSD's "Common Sense News" volume 12 issue 5 on
                            > page 3. I don't have the link on hand but its not hard to find.
                            >
                            > Regards,
                            >
                            > Col Mooney
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco
                            David, I posted the whole bunch of CSD (aaaarghhh, I told the dreaded name, shame on me...) newsletters in the files, some time ago. Click on Files (left
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jun 4, 2001
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                              David, I posted the whole bunch of CSD (aaaarghhh, I told the dreaded
                              name, shame on me...) newsletters in the files, some time ago. Click
                              on "Files" (left column of this page), then click on the folder
                              named "CSD Newsletters" (naaaah, I said it again...) and find the one
                              you need. Best, Pippo


                              --- In bolger@y..., djost@m... wrote:
                              > Col,
                              > I have been unable to find the link. Does anyone know it?
                              > Davdi Jost
                              > > Dave,
                              > > There is a small essay and photos on an alternative rudder
                              > > setup by Larry BUCK in CSD's "Common Sense News" volume 12 issue
                              5 on
                              > > page 3. I don't have the link on hand but its not hard to find.
                              > >
                              > > Regards,
                              > >
                              > > Col Mooney
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                            • vcgraphics@theriver.com
                              David, I hope you found the file where Pippo left it. This rudder mounting mod has bolts held in the hull and rudder with bushings turned by lath from an old
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jun 4, 2001
                              • 0 Attachment
                                David, I hope you found the file where Pippo left it.

                                This rudder mounting mod has bolts held in the hull and rudder
                                with bushings turned by lath from an old bronze drive shaft.

                                The fancy approach is probably not needed. The bolts could be
                                held by the Gougeon bros method of drilling a loose fit hole for
                                the threaded fastening, and epoxying the fasteners, well coated
                                with release agent, into the holes. The Gougeons do this with
                                winch mountings, so it must be plenty strong, at least with a
                                sideways force. The release agent allows the hardware to be
                                threaded in and out when need be. Without the bronze bushings
                                fabrication becomes simple.

                                Vance

                                --- In bolger@y..., "Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco" <pippobianco@t...>
                                wrote:
                                > David, I posted the whole bunch of CSD (aaaarghhh, I told the
                                dreaded
                                > name, shame on me...) newsletters in the files,
                              • djost@ma.ultranet.com
                                Vance and Pippo, Thank you for pointing me in the right direction to the files! This is the approach that I have chosen with a couple of small modifictions. 1.
                                Message 15 of 15 , Jun 5, 2001
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                                  Vance and Pippo,
                                  Thank you for pointing me in the right direction to the files!
                                  This is the approach that I have chosen with a couple of small
                                  modifictions.

                                  1. I have ordered a 14" piece of 2"X 1/4" bronze plate to be rabbeted
                                  into the keel (full width side to side) and will tap it for (6) 3" #10
                                  silicon bronze screws set in epoxy with release agent (wax) on the
                                  screws.

                                  2. I was planning on using a bronze rod inserted into the post, but I
                                  can see that a suitable bronze bolt may be a lot simpler if set in the
                                  epoxy bushing! I may build a test piece to see how difficult this may
                                  be.

                                  3. a bronze washer epoxied on the rudder will serve as a bearing
                                  surface. I still have a can of WEST graphite so will probably coat
                                  both surfaces with it since it is easy to redo when it wears. It also
                                  will help with the pivot.


                                  Many thanks for the help.
                                  David Jost
                                  >
                                  > Vance
                                  >
                                  > --- In bolger@y..., "Giuseppe 'Pippo' Bianco" <pippobianco@t...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > > David, I posted the whole bunch of CSD (aaaarghhh, I told the
                                  > dreaded
                                  > > name, shame on me...) newsletters in the files,
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