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pirogue

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  • Rique@paradise.net.nz
    Hi I m a new member living on the Hauraki Gulf in New Zealand. I am just about to finish building a Wharram outrigger canoe and I am looking around for my next
    Message 1 of 23 , May 3, 2001
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      Hi I'm a new member living on the Hauraki Gulf in New Zealand. I am
      just about to finish building a Wharram outrigger canoe and I am
      looking around for my next project. The Bolger boat that appeals most
      to me is his 16'pirogue. My question is, with all the entries in
      these lists about so many boats, and how they perform, this one
      hardly gets a mention! How come? Has anyone out there had any
      experiances sailing one? If so how about letting me in on the secret.
      If not experiance, how about some theory, ie why would it not sail at
      least as well as say june bug which is 2' shorter and with the same
      beam? etc.

      I would love to hear some opinions on the subject.

      Thanx,
      Rique
    • bgbeck55@yahoo.com
      Rique, If you do an Archive Search with the word Pirogue you ll find what s already been posted. Most of it was in 1999. You can also see a finished
      Message 2 of 23 , May 3, 2001
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        Rique,
        If you do an "Archive Search" with the word "Pirogue" you'll
        find what's already been posted. Most of it was in 1999. You can also
        see a finished "Pirogue" at:
        http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/articles/csdpirogue/index.htm
        Like you, I have a high opinion of this design, even though I
        haven't been able to build one yet. When you get your plans, buy them
        from Bolger himself. You'll get better advice than you'll get from
        Common Sense Designs. The new owner is a bit spotty when it comes to
        advice.
        Cheers,
        Bruce


        --- In bolger@y..., Rique@p... wrote:
        > Hi I'm a new member living on the Hauraki Gulf in New Zealand. I am
        > just about to finish building a Wharram outrigger canoe and I am
        > looking around for my next project. The Bolger boat that appeals
        most
        > to me is his 16'pirogue. My question is, with all the entries in
        > these lists about so many boats, and how they perform, this one
        > hardly gets a mention! How come? Has anyone out there had any
        > experiances sailing one? If so how about letting me in on the
        secret.
        > If not experiance, how about some theory, ie why would it not sail
        at
        > least as well as say june bug which is 2' shorter and with the same
        > beam? etc.
        >
        > I would love to hear some opinions on the subject.
        >
        > Thanx,
        > Rique
      • garth@breakawaybooks.com
        ... Rique – I ve just recently been bitten by the sailing pirogue bug myself. Two weekends ago, I built the Michalak Piragua (14 X 32 ) purely for
        Message 3 of 23 , May 4, 2001
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          --- In bolger@y..., Rique@p... wrote:
          > The Bolger boat that appeals most to me is his 16'pirogue.

          Rique –

          I've just recently been bitten by the "sailing pirogue" bug myself.
          Two weekends ago, I built the Michalak Piragua (14' X 32") purely for
          paddling use – and as soon as it was 3-D, I found myself wanting to
          put a sail on her. So I've stumbled into researching sailing
          pirogues. I've got the mast step and partner installed now (stealing
          rig geometry details from study plans of the Bolger Pirogue, scaled
          to fit the smaller boat), and the pivoting leeboard designed. Still
          need to built the mast (birdsmouth) and cut the sail (white polytarp)
          -- and in a week or two I hope I'll have a sailing report for you.

          I see the Bolger Pirogue has two or three inches of side decking –
          something I haven't installed – just fore and aft 3' flotation
          compartments w/hatches -- but if I find a lot of water coming over
          when heeled, I may add side decking and a little coaming later.

          I love the idea of the pirogue – a boat easily cartoppable by one
          guy; good for quick after-work sails, or for long family paddles on a
          Saturday afternoon; easy to stow a lightweight double-ended paddle to
          get home when the wind dies; shallow draft for poking about wherever
          you like; the pivoting leeboard allows you not to fret about sailing
          out of the channel; sails fast when the wind is up; short spars for
          easy stowage, etc. Seems like a dreamy proposition. They're the
          easiest boats to build, too.

          Andy Farquhar steered me to the Yahoo "sailing_canoes" e-group, which
          has been like Alice falling down the rabbit hole – there's a
          fascinating world of canoe-sailing enthusiasts out there.

          Beyond recommending that you do Google searches for "sailing pirogue"
          and "Bolger pirogue" and roam through the results, here are a few
          good links. Unfortunately none of them give a full report on your
          main question: what's the Bolger Pirogue like? But you can
          triangulate a lot from what's here.

          One man's funny and informative stories of sailing a Mike's Cajun
          Pirogue:
          http://www.boatkits.com/boat/mike/default.htm

          Canoe Sailing Resources page (by Craig O'Donnell):
          http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/canoe_mirror/canoe_sa
          iling.html

          A good Jim Michalak article on making a pivoting leeboard:
          http: marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/1998/0615

          Keep us apprised if you come across any other good info – I'm very
          curious, and suspect there may be others on the list who'd like to
          give the Bolger Sailing Pirogue a try.

          All best,
          Garth
        • drewnel@pcpartner.net
          I made a shortened (12 ) version of the pirogue but without the sailing rig. Even short, it s an incredible boat. I went places I never thought I could. If
          Message 4 of 23 , May 4, 2001
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            I made a shortened (12') version of the pirogue but without the
            sailing rig. Even short, it's an incredible boat. I went places I
            never thought I could. If I were interested in building another
            boat, the 16'sailing/rowing/paddling pirogue would be my choice.

            Drew

            --- In bolger@y..., Rique@p... wrote:
            > Hi I'm a new member living on the Hauraki Gulf in New Zealand. I am
            > just about to finish building a Wharram outrigger canoe and I am
            > looking around for my next project. The Bolger boat that appeals
            most
            > to me is his 16'pirogue. My question is, with all the entries in
            > these lists about so many boats, and how they perform, this one
            > hardly gets a mention! How come? Has anyone out there had any
            > experiances sailing one? If so how about letting me in on the
            secret.
            > If not experiance, how about some theory, ie why would it not sail
            at
            > least as well as say june bug which is 2' shorter and with the same
            > beam? etc.
            >
            > I would love to hear some opinions on the subject.
            >
            > Thanx,
            > Rique
          • binksboats@yahoo.com
            Rique, I LOVE my 16 pirogue. I added hatches to the top of the fore and aft decks, a pivoting rudder and leeboard and a line from either side of the rudder
            Message 5 of 23 , May 4, 2001
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              Rique,

              I LOVE my 16' pirogue. I added hatches to the top of the fore
              and aft decks, a pivoting rudder and leeboard and a line from either
              side of the rudder clear around the decks to con her from anywhere in
              the cockpit. The best way to sail her is facing forward, but if you
              are heeled over for a long time its best to wedge a cushion against
              the edge of the deck. The rig fits in the bottom and I put a
              removable seat just aft of the mid-frame to paddle or row her. Rowing
              has been a disapointment because the outriggers wobble too much with
              the two bolts shown on the plans that fasten them to the sides.
              I'm thinking of a better way to fasten them. Paddling is great...for
              a flat-bottomed boat it tracks straight and far. I also have two
              seats fore and aft to paddle her like a canoe. Everything comes out
              for pure sailing. Its a little heavy for one person to get it on the
              van. I keep scraping the paint off the back of the roof. I'm having a
              rack built that fits into the trailer receiver like a bicycle carrier
              and has rollers on top. I'll post pics when its done if it does the
              trick.

              Bink.
              --- In bolger@y..., Rique@p... wrote:
              > Hi I'm a new member living on the Hauraki Gulf in New Zealand. I am
              > just about to finish building a Wharram outrigger canoe and I am
              > looking around for my next project. The Bolger boat that appeals
              most
              > to me is his 16'pirogue. My question is, with all the entries in
              > these lists about so many boats, and how they perform, this one
              > hardly gets a mention! How come? Has anyone out there had any
              > experiances sailing one? If so how about letting me in on the
              secret.
              > If not experiance, how about some theory, ie why would it not sail
              at
              > least as well as say june bug which is 2' shorter and with the same
              > beam? etc.
              >
              > I would love to hear some opinions on the subject.
              >
              > Thanx,
              > Rique
            • Jim Chamberlin RCSIS
              Hey, folks. Where might I find a drawing or study plan, etc. of the pirogue? I checked the Payson web site, nothing there. Did I miss something? Jim
              Message 6 of 23 , May 5, 2001
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                Hey, folks.

                Where might I find a drawing or study plan, etc. of the pirogue? I checked
                the Payson web site, nothing there. Did I miss something?

                Jim

                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Michael Surface [mailto:msurface@...]
                > Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 5:51 AM
                > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: pirogue
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > >From: garth@...
                > >Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                > >To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                > >Subject: [bolger] Re: pirogue
                > >Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 13:03:25 -0000
                >
                > >Keep us apprised if you come across any other good info – I'm very
                > >curious, and suspect there may be others on the list who'd like to
                > >give the Bolger Sailing Pirogue a try.
                > >
                > >All best,
                > >Garth
                > >
                > A very good source on sails for canoes (also applicible for pirogues)
                > is Canoe Rig by Told Bradshaw. It is informative and the
                > illistrations are
                > a work of art. I is available at most bookstores (Borders for one) and
                > Amazon.com. It is also availible from Woodenboat at www.woodenboat.com
                >
                > Michael Surface
                > _________________________________________________________________
                > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                >
                >
                > Bolger rules!!!
                > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
                > - no flogging dead horses
                > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                > - stay on topic and punctuate
                > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
                > Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
              • Jim Chamberlin RCSIS
                Bink, Hi....interested in the pirogue. I need an easily built truck topper that I can paddle and sail on impulse and that will live on my roof rack. Pictures,
                Message 7 of 23 , May 5, 2001
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                  Bink,

                  Hi....interested in the pirogue. I need an easily built truck topper that I
                  can paddle and sail on impulse and that will live on my roof rack.

                  Pictures, or a source of info would be appreciated. I checked the Payson
                  web site and couldn't find anything. Web links, too.

                  Thanks,

                  Jim C.

                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: binksboats@... [mailto:binksboats@...]
                  > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 3:26 PM
                  > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [bolger] Re: pirogue
                  >
                  >
                  > Rique,
                  >
                  > I LOVE my 16' pirogue. I added hatches to the top of the fore
                  > and aft decks, a pivoting rudder and leeboard and a line from either
                  > side of the rudder clear around the decks to con her from anywhere in
                  > the cockpit. The best way to sail her is facing forward, but if you
                  > are heeled over for a long time its best to wedge a cushion against
                  > the edge of the deck. The rig fits in the bottom and I put a
                  > removable seat just aft of the mid-frame to paddle or row her. Rowing
                  > has been a disapointment because the outriggers wobble too much with
                  > the two bolts shown on the plans that fasten them to the sides.
                  > I'm thinking of a better way to fasten them. Paddling is great...for
                  > a flat-bottomed boat it tracks straight and far. I also have two
                  > seats fore and aft to paddle her like a canoe. Everything comes out
                  > for pure sailing. Its a little heavy for one person to get it on the
                  > van. I keep scraping the paint off the back of the roof. I'm having a
                  > rack built that fits into the trailer receiver like a bicycle carrier
                  > and has rollers on top. I'll post pics when its done if it does the
                  > trick.
                  >
                  > Bink.
                  > --- In bolger@y..., Rique@p... wrote:
                  > > Hi I'm a new member living on the Hauraki Gulf in New Zealand. I am
                  > > just about to finish building a Wharram outrigger canoe and I am
                  > > looking around for my next project. The Bolger boat that appeals
                  > most
                  > > to me is his 16'pirogue. My question is, with all the entries in
                  > > these lists about so many boats, and how they perform, this one
                  > > hardly gets a mention! How come? Has anyone out there had any
                  > > experiances sailing one? If so how about letting me in on the
                  > secret.
                  > > If not experiance, how about some theory, ie why would it not sail
                  > at
                  > > least as well as say june bug which is 2' shorter and with the same
                  > > beam? etc.
                  > >
                  > > I would love to hear some opinions on the subject.
                  > >
                  > > Thanx,
                  > > Rique
                  >
                  >
                  > Bolger rules!!!
                  > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
                  > - no flogging dead horses
                  > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                  > - stay on topic and punctuate
                  > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                  > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
                  > Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                • Chuck Leinweber
                  Jim: try this link: http://www.common-sense-boats.com/boats/Canoes_&_kayaks/pirogue.htm Chuck Hey, folks. Where might I find a drawing or study plan, etc. of
                  Message 8 of 23 , May 5, 2001
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                    Jim:

                    try this link:

                    http://www.common-sense-boats.com/boats/Canoes_&_kayaks/pirogue.htm

                    Chuck



                    Hey, folks.

                    Where might I find a drawing or study plan, etc. of the pirogue? I checked
                    the Payson web site, nothing there. Did I miss something?

                    Jim
                  • lukecurran@hotmail.com
                    Try Commonsense Boats in the Bookmarks section of this group for details of the plans etc. but the latest advice on this group is to get the plans direct from
                    Message 9 of 23 , May 5, 2001
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                      Try Commonsense Boats in the Bookmarks section of this group for
                      details of the plans etc. but the latest advice on this group is to
                      get the plans direct from Bolger. Other posters will give you more
                      details on personal pages with details of the boat.





                      --- In bolger@y..., "Jim Chamberlin RCSIS" <jchamberlin@r...> wrote:
                      > Bink,
                      >
                      > Hi....interested in the pirogue. I need an easily built truck
                      topper that I
                      > can paddle and sail on impulse and that will live on my roof rack.
                      >
                      > Pictures, or a source of info would be appreciated. I checked the
                      Payson
                      > web site and couldn't find anything. Web links, too.
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      >
                      > Jim C.
                      >
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: binksboats@y... [mailto:binksboats@y...]
                      > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 3:26 PM
                      > > To: bolger@y...
                      > > Subject: [bolger] Re: pirogue
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Rique,
                      > >
                      > > I LOVE my 16' pirogue. I added hatches to the top of the
                      fore
                      > > and aft decks, a pivoting rudder and leeboard and a line from
                      either
                      > > side of the rudder clear around the decks to con her from
                      anywhere in
                      > > the cockpit. The best way to sail her is facing forward, but if
                      you
                      > > are heeled over for a long time its best to wedge a cushion
                      against
                      > > the edge of the deck. The rig fits in the bottom and I put a
                      > > removable seat just aft of the mid-frame to paddle or row her.
                      Rowing
                      > > has been a disapointment because the outriggers wobble too much
                      with
                      > > the two bolts shown on the plans that fasten them to the sides.
                      > > I'm thinking of a better way to fasten them. Paddling is
                      great...for
                      > > a flat-bottomed boat it tracks straight and far. I also have two
                      > > seats fore and aft to paddle her like a canoe. Everything comes
                      out
                      > > for pure sailing. Its a little heavy for one person to get it on
                      the
                      > > van. I keep scraping the paint off the back of the roof. I'm
                      having a
                      > > rack built that fits into the trailer receiver like a bicycle
                      carrier
                      > > and has rollers on top. I'll post pics when its done if it does
                      the
                      > > trick.
                      > >
                      > > Bink.
                      > > --- In bolger@y..., Rique@p... wrote:
                      > > > Hi I'm a new member living on the Hauraki Gulf in New Zealand.
                      I am
                      > > > just about to finish building a Wharram outrigger canoe and I am
                      > > > looking around for my next project. The Bolger boat that appeals
                      > > most
                      > > > to me is his 16'pirogue. My question is, with all the entries in
                      > > > these lists about so many boats, and how they perform, this one
                      > > > hardly gets a mention! How come? Has anyone out there had any
                      > > > experiances sailing one? If so how about letting me in on the
                      > > secret.
                      > > > If not experiance, how about some theory, ie why would it not
                      sail
                      > > at
                      > > > least as well as say june bug which is 2' shorter and with the
                      same
                      > > > beam? etc.
                      > > >
                      > > > I would love to hear some opinions on the subject.
                      > > >
                      > > > Thanx,
                      > > > Rique
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Bolger rules!!!
                      > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
                      > > - no flogging dead horses
                      > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                      > > - stay on topic and punctuate
                      > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                      > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
                      > > Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      > >
                      > >
                    • lukecurran@hotmail.com
                      Also in Bookmarks try Bolger boats on the web for two different pirogues. It s the 16footer that we re discussing here. ... topper that I ... Payson ...
                      Message 10 of 23 , May 5, 2001
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                        Also in Bookmarks try 'Bolger boats on the web' for two different
                        pirogues. It's the 16footer that we're discussing here.




                        --- In bolger@y..., "Jim Chamberlin RCSIS" <jchamberlin@r...> wrote:
                        > Bink,
                        >
                        > Hi....interested in the pirogue. I need an easily built truck
                        topper that I
                        > can paddle and sail on impulse and that will live on my roof rack.
                        >
                        > Pictures, or a source of info would be appreciated. I checked the
                        Payson
                        > web site and couldn't find anything. Web links, too.
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        >
                        > Jim C.
                        >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: binksboats@y... [mailto:binksboats@y...]
                        > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 3:26 PM
                        > > To: bolger@y...
                        > > Subject: [bolger] Re: pirogue
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Rique,
                        > >
                        > > I LOVE my 16' pirogue. I added hatches to the top of the
                        fore
                        > > and aft decks, a pivoting rudder and leeboard and a line from
                        either
                        > > side of the rudder clear around the decks to con her from
                        anywhere in
                        > > the cockpit. The best way to sail her is facing forward, but if
                        you
                        > > are heeled over for a long time its best to wedge a cushion
                        against
                        > > the edge of the deck. The rig fits in the bottom and I put a
                        > > removable seat just aft of the mid-frame to paddle or row her.
                        Rowing
                        > > has been a disapointment because the outriggers wobble too much
                        with
                        > > the two bolts shown on the plans that fasten them to the sides.
                        > > I'm thinking of a better way to fasten them. Paddling is
                        great...for
                        > > a flat-bottomed boat it tracks straight and far. I also have two
                        > > seats fore and aft to paddle her like a canoe. Everything comes
                        out
                        > > for pure sailing. Its a little heavy for one person to get it on
                        the
                        > > van. I keep scraping the paint off the back of the roof. I'm
                        having a
                        > > rack built that fits into the trailer receiver like a bicycle
                        carrier
                        > > and has rollers on top. I'll post pics when its done if it does
                        the
                        > > trick.
                        > >
                        > > Bink.
                        > > --- In bolger@y..., Rique@p... wrote:
                        > > > Hi I'm a new member living on the Hauraki Gulf in New Zealand.
                        I am
                        > > > just about to finish building a Wharram outrigger canoe and I am
                        > > > looking around for my next project. The Bolger boat that appeals
                        > > most
                        > > > to me is his 16'pirogue. My question is, with all the entries in
                        > > > these lists about so many boats, and how they perform, this one
                        > > > hardly gets a mention! How come? Has anyone out there had any
                        > > > experiances sailing one? If so how about letting me in on the
                        > > secret.
                        > > > If not experiance, how about some theory, ie why would it not
                        sail
                        > > at
                        > > > least as well as say june bug which is 2' shorter and with the
                        same
                        > > > beam? etc.
                        > > >
                        > > > I would love to hear some opinions on the subject.
                        > > >
                        > > > Thanx,
                        > > > Rique
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Bolger rules!!!
                        > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
                        > > - no flogging dead horses
                        > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                        > > - stay on topic and punctuate
                        > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                        > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
                        > > Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        > >
                        > >
                      • Michael Surface
                        ... A very good source on sails for canoes (also applicible for pirogues) is Canoe Rig by Told Bradshaw. It is informative and the illistrations are a work
                        Message 11 of 23 , May 5, 2001
                        • 0 Attachment
                          >From: garth@...
                          >Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                          >To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                          >Subject: [bolger] Re: pirogue
                          >Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 13:03:25 -0000

                          >Keep us apprised if you come across any other good info � I'm very
                          >curious, and suspect there may be others on the list who'd like to
                          >give the Bolger Sailing Pirogue a try.
                          >
                          >All best,
                          >Garth
                          >
                          A very good source on sails for canoes (also applicible for pirogues)
                          is Canoe Rig by Told Bradshaw. It is informative and the illistrations are
                          a work of art. I is available at most bookstores (Borders for one) and
                          Amazon.com. It is also availible from Woodenboat at www.woodenboat.com

                          Michael Surface
                          _________________________________________________________________
                          Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                        • david galvin
                          Buried somewhere in the depths of Duckworks Magazine is a little article I did on my 16 Pirogue. Mine is bright finished luan (meranti) 1/4 plywood, with a
                          Message 12 of 23 , May 5, 2001
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                            Buried somewhere in the depths of Duckworks Magazine is a little
                            article I did on my 16' Pirogue. Mine is bright finished luan
                            (meranti) 1/4" plywood, with a daggerboard slot and a few other minor
                            changes. If I were to build it again (and I might) I would try to make
                            it as lightweight as possible. As built it weighs more than 90 lbs., a
                            trifle too heavy for me to lift onto roof racks by myself. Also,
                            sailing in rocky Catskill and Adirondack lakes with a daggerboard
                            sticking two feet underwater makes me nervous, so I would fashion a
                            removable pivoting leeboard.

                            It sails very well, except downwind, where the boomless sprit rig
                            insists on jibing unpredictably. I understand that this is is a common
                            fault of the rig no matter what boat it is on. I made my sail from a
                            Sailrite kit in one evening. The spars fit inside the boat for
                            paddling or rowing. I find the oarlock outriggers function well as
                            designed, but perhaps I lucky when I built them. The boat tracks dead
                            straight when paddled or rowed, and turns majestically. Don't expect
                            quick kayak-like handling unless you leave off the skeg and the keel
                            shoe (which I suspect is structural). There's room in the cockpit for
                            one person to sleep, two or three to paddle. My boat has about 2/3's
                            of the specified flotation and floats fully swamped with 6" of
                            freeboard. Thanks to the side decks it is very difficult to swamp the
                            boat anyway, except deliberately.

                            The Pirogue uses four sheets of plywood and about 30 board feet of
                            lumber. The prototype was reportedly built in sixteen hours by a
                            professional, but mine took a month of part-time work. I included a
                            lot of details to conceal plywood edges and such, but as drawn, the
                            construction is skiff simple. The only real challenge, if you can call
                            it that, is the deck, which can be a little fussy to fit. The steering
                            system works fine as designed. I didn't like the fixed leeboard, and
                            didn't build it.

                            I am plotting to rebuilt this design out of occume plywood, perhaps
                            4mm, with cedar framing and sealed flotation chambers in lieu of foam.
                            That should get its weight down to a reasonable sixtyish pounds, but
                            may weaken it unacceptably. Perhaps I'll ask Bolger for his thoughts
                            on such modifications before I jump,

                            porky
                          • StepHydro@aol.com
                            In a message dated 05/06/2001 12:
                            Message 13 of 23 , May 6, 2001
                            • 0 Attachment
                              In a message dated 05/06/2001 12:<BR35:<BR21 AM
                              Eastern Daylight, jchamberlin@... writes:
                              > Where might I find a drawing or study plan, etc. of the pirogue? I checked
                              > the Payson web site, nothing there. Did I miss something?

                              Haven't been following this one, but if you are looking for the Bolger Peero,
                              the plan is on Craig's pages:
                              http://www2.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/boat/bolger.html#peero

                              Cheers/Carron
                            • Ray Worob
                              Dave: Since I have considered building the 16 pirogue as a cartopper sailboat to sail singlehanded, your comments were very informational. However, two
                              Message 14 of 23 , May 6, 2001
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Dave: Since I have considered building the 16' pirogue as a cartopper
                                sailboat to sail singlehanded, your comments were very informational.
                                However, two things still concern me. First, when you say it sails well,
                                how would you compare it to the sailing speed of a Sunfish or similar
                                sailboat. Also, like yourself, I would like the hull weight to stay under
                                70 lbs. Any future comments in this regard are welcome. Concerning your
                                sail problem downwind, last weekend I had the opportunity to sail in a
                                decked sailing canoe with a 44 sq ft ACA lateen sail. With the lateen rig we
                                had no problem downwind. Also, since it seemed to stay pretty close to a
                                sunfish that was sailing on the same tack from time to time, I think I would
                                consider that rig if I built the pirogue. Thanks again for your comments.
                                Ray


                                >From: "david galvin" <porcupine@...>
                                >Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                >To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                >Subject: [bolger] Re: pirogue
                                >Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 06:00:50 -0000
                                >
                                >Buried somewhere in the depths of Duckworks Magazine is a little
                                >article I did on my 16' Pirogue. Mine is bright finished luan
                                >(meranti) 1/4" plywood, with a daggerboard slot and a few other minor
                                >changes. If I were to build it again (and I might) I would try to make
                                >it as lightweight as possible. As built it weighs more than 90 lbs., a
                                >trifle too heavy for me to lift onto roof racks by myself. Also,
                                >sailing in rocky Catskill and Adirondack lakes with a daggerboard
                                >sticking two feet underwater makes me nervous, so I would fashion a
                                >removable pivoting leeboard.
                                >
                                >It sails very well, except downwind, where the boomless sprit rig
                                >insists on jibing unpredictably. I understand that this is is a common
                                >fault of the rig no matter what boat it is on. I made my sail from a
                                >Sailrite kit in one evening. The spars fit inside the boat for
                                >paddling or rowing. I find the oarlock outriggers function well as
                                >designed, but perhaps I lucky when I built them. The boat tracks dead
                                >straight when paddled or rowed, and turns majestically. Don't expect
                                >quick kayak-like handling unless you leave off the skeg and the keel
                                >shoe (which I suspect is structural). There's room in the cockpit for
                                >one person to sleep, two or three to paddle. My boat has about 2/3's
                                >of the specified flotation and floats fully swamped with 6" of
                                >freeboard. Thanks to the side decks it is very difficult to swamp the
                                >boat anyway, except deliberately.
                                >
                                >The Pirogue uses four sheets of plywood and about 30 board feet of
                                >lumber. The prototype was reportedly built in sixteen hours by a
                                >professional, but mine took a month of part-time work. I included a
                                >lot of details to conceal plywood edges and such, but as drawn, the
                                >construction is skiff simple. The only real challenge, if you can call
                                >it that, is the deck, which can be a little fussy to fit. The steering
                                >system works fine as designed. I didn't like the fixed leeboard, and
                                >didn't build it.
                                >
                                >I am plotting to rebuilt this design out of occume plywood, perhaps
                                >4mm, with cedar framing and sealed flotation chambers in lieu of foam.
                                >That should get its weight down to a reasonable sixtyish pounds, but
                                >may weaken it unacceptably. Perhaps I'll ask Bolger for his thoughts
                                >on such modifications before I jump,
                                >
                                >porky
                                >

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                              • shansen@tiac.net
                                Bink, I had the same wobbly problem with my outriggers. I did two things: A third bolt near the gunwale (this is a piece of threaded rod that I epoxied into
                                Message 15 of 23 , May 6, 2001
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Bink,

                                  I had the same wobbly problem with my outriggers. I did two things:
                                  A third bolt near the gunwale (this is a piece of threaded rod that I
                                  epoxied into the wedge). With that I still saw some flexing of the
                                  sidedeck. That was solved by fitting a pair of 3/8" ply pieces under
                                  the deck. These are a bit over two feet long and extend from the
                                  middle frame to a ways beyond the outriggers. Now the outriggers are
                                  solid.

                                  My stretched (19.5 ft.)Pirogue weighs about 130 lbs including 3
                                  seats. I never had much trouble getting it on my Subaru's roof racks
                                  and it rode very well that way (including many long trips). In 1995
                                  or thereabouts the Subaru was replaced with a van and there was no
                                  way to get the thing on the roof short of hiring Mr. Atlas. It's been
                                  on a trailer since. However I still use my homebuilt dolly (attaches
                                  to the skeg) to get it to and from the water. Never had to get the
                                  trailer wet.

                                  The only other significant change I made to the boat was to add a
                                  solid bulkhead about 1 ft. forward of the forward frame. I then cut
                                  an opening in the forward frame to give extra leg room for the person
                                  in the front seat.

                                  I do occasionally use a 2 hp Honda for longer trips but the weight
                                  off the side makes the boat a bit tender especially in rough waters.
                                  (No problem with the electric as most of the mass is underwater and
                                  the two batteries make for great ballast.) I am thinking seriously
                                  about adding a pair of outrigger sponsons for stability (glassed
                                  foam, perhaps 5 ft long and 6x8 inches in cross section) only when
                                  using this motor.

                                  Great boat - I'd never part with it.

                                  Steve

                                  --- In bolger@y..., binksboats@y... wrote:
                                  > rowing has been a disapointment because the outriggers wobble too
                                  >much with the two bolts shown on the plans that fasten them to the
                                  >sides. I'm thinking of a better way to fasten them. Paddling is
                                  >great...for a flat-bottomed boat it tracks straight and far. I also
                                  >have two seats fore and aft to paddle her like a canoe....It's a
                                  >little heavy for one person to get it on the van.
                                • micwal_va@hotmail.com
                                  http://www.clcboats.com/ Carries plans for an outrigger kit for canoes and kayaks. I emailed them some time ago and the 12 wide version is supposed to be
                                  Message 16 of 23 , May 6, 2001
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    http://www.clcboats.com/

                                    Carries plans for an outrigger kit for canoes and kayaks. I emailed
                                    them some time ago and the 12' wide version is supposed to be good
                                    for up to 21' canoes.

                                    I will post pictures of it.
                                  • Phillip Tucker
                                    Jim, Rique & others, I too love my pirogue! It is an easily built, good looking, all around boat. Mine weighs in at about 95lbs. so is just right for the wife
                                    Message 17 of 23 , May 6, 2001
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Jim, Rique & others, I too love my pirogue! It is an easily built, good
                                      looking, all around boat. Mine weighs in at about 95lbs. so is just right
                                      for the wife and I to put up on the truck. Holds the two of us and weekend
                                      camping gear. Paddles like a dream. I made a few minor modifications aimed
                                      at adding strength to certain areas.(bottom,top decks). Only problems I have
                                      had is wear on the bottom of the skeg from the occasional drag up the beach.
                                      I fitted a strip of copper and all has been fine since. Be sure to use
                                      quality materials as this ones a keeper.
                                      Good luck! Phil (piroguemaniac)

                                      >From: "Jim Chamberlin RCSIS" <jchamberlin@...>
                                      >Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                      >To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                                      >Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: pirogue
                                      >Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 09:04:05 -0700
                                      >
                                      >Bink,
                                      >
                                      >Hi....interested in the pirogue. I need an easily built truck topper that
                                      >I
                                      >can paddle and sail on impulse and that will live on my roof rack.
                                      >
                                      >Pictures, or a source of info would be appreciated. I checked the Payson
                                      >web site and couldn't find anything. Web links, too.
                                      >
                                      >Thanks,
                                      >
                                      >Jim C.
                                      >
                                      > > -----Original Message-----
                                      > > From: binksboats@... [mailto:binksboats@...]
                                      > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 3:26 PM
                                      > > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Subject: [bolger] Re: pirogue
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Rique,
                                      > >
                                      > > I LOVE my 16' pirogue. I added hatches to the top of the fore
                                      > > and aft decks, a pivoting rudder and leeboard and a line from either
                                      > > side of the rudder clear around the decks to con her from anywhere in
                                      > > the cockpit. The best way to sail her is facing forward, but if you
                                      > > are heeled over for a long time its best to wedge a cushion against
                                      > > the edge of the deck. The rig fits in the bottom and I put a
                                      > > removable seat just aft of the mid-frame to paddle or row her. Rowing
                                      > > has been a disapointment because the outriggers wobble too much with
                                      > > the two bolts shown on the plans that fasten them to the sides.
                                      > > I'm thinking of a better way to fasten them. Paddling is great...for
                                      > > a flat-bottomed boat it tracks straight and far. I also have two
                                      > > seats fore and aft to paddle her like a canoe. Everything comes out
                                      > > for pure sailing. Its a little heavy for one person to get it on the
                                      > > van. I keep scraping the paint off the back of the roof. I'm having a
                                      > > rack built that fits into the trailer receiver like a bicycle carrier
                                      > > and has rollers on top. I'll post pics when its done if it does the
                                      > > trick.
                                      > >
                                      > > Bink.
                                      > > --- In bolger@y..., Rique@p... wrote:
                                      > > > Hi I'm a new member living on the Hauraki Gulf in New Zealand. I am
                                      > > > just about to finish building a Wharram outrigger canoe and I am
                                      > > > looking around for my next project. The Bolger boat that appeals
                                      > > most
                                      > > > to me is his 16'pirogue. My question is, with all the entries in
                                      > > > these lists about so many boats, and how they perform, this one
                                      > > > hardly gets a mention! How come? Has anyone out there had any
                                      > > > experiances sailing one? If so how about letting me in on the
                                      > > secret.
                                      > > > If not experiance, how about some theory, ie why would it not sail
                                      > > at
                                      > > > least as well as say june bug which is 2' shorter and with the same
                                      > > > beam? etc.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I would love to hear some opinions on the subject.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Thanx,
                                      > > > Rique
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Bolger rules!!!
                                      > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
                                      > > - no flogging dead horses
                                      > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                                      > > - stay on topic and punctuate
                                      > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                                      > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
                                      > > Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                      >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >

                                      _________________________________________________________________
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                                    • GHC
                                      While I didn t like sailing my Bolger Pirogue, it s a neat enough design in other respects and easy to build. I suppose sailing canoes are all quite tender;
                                      Message 18 of 23 , May 7, 2001
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                                        While I didn't like sailing my Bolger Pirogue, it's a neat enough design in
                                        other respects and easy to build.

                                        I suppose sailing canoes are all quite tender; there's really no where to
                                        hike out. In any kind of breeze, it just didn't work for me. Other people
                                        really like the pirogue, though, so I would guess they either enjoy the
                                        challenge or sail in lighter breezes than we get. I would have a hard time
                                        imagining the pirogue sailing with a Sunfish, but then you can't really
                                        paddle the latter, either. Of course, everything's a compromise.

                                        I don't know if anyone noted, but Bolger's pirogue was published in
                                        "Messing About..." a few years ago.

                                        Gregg Carlson

                                        At 08:31 AM 5/6/2001 -0400, you wrote:
                                        >Dave: Since I have considered building the 16' pirogue as a cartopper
                                        >sailboat to sail singlehanded, your comments were very informational.
                                        >However, two things still concern me. First, when you say it sails well,
                                        >how would you compare it to the sailing speed of a Sunfish or similar
                                        >sailboat. Also, like yourself, I would like the hull weight to stay under
                                        >70 lbs. Any future comments in this regard are welcome. Concerning your
                                        >sail problem downwind, last weekend I had the opportunity to sail in a
                                        >decked sailing canoe with a 44 sq ft ACA lateen sail. With the lateen rig we
                                        >had no problem downwind. Also, since it seemed to stay pretty close to a
                                        >sunfish that was sailing on the same tack from time to time, I think I would
                                        >consider that rig if I built the pirogue. Thanks again for your comments.
                                        >Ray
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >>From: "david galvin" <porcupine@...>
                                        >>Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                        >>To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                        >>Subject: [bolger] Re: pirogue
                                        >>Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 06:00:50 -0000
                                        >>
                                        >>Buried somewhere in the depths of Duckworks Magazine is a little
                                        >>article I did on my 16' Pirogue. Mine is bright finished luan
                                        >>(meranti) 1/4" plywood, with a daggerboard slot and a few other minor
                                        >>changes. If I were to build it again (and I might) I would try to make
                                        >>it as lightweight as possible. As built it weighs more than 90 lbs., a
                                        >>trifle too heavy for me to lift onto roof racks by myself. Also,
                                        >>sailing in rocky Catskill and Adirondack lakes with a daggerboard
                                        >>sticking two feet underwater makes me nervous, so I would fashion a
                                        >>removable pivoting leeboard.
                                        >>
                                        >>It sails very well, except downwind, where the boomless sprit rig
                                        >>insists on jibing unpredictably. I understand that this is is a common
                                        >>fault of the rig no matter what boat it is on. I made my sail from a
                                        >>Sailrite kit in one evening. The spars fit inside the boat for
                                        >>paddling or rowing. I find the oarlock outriggers function well as
                                        >>designed, but perhaps I lucky when I built them. The boat tracks dead
                                        >>straight when paddled or rowed, and turns majestically. Don't expect
                                        >>quick kayak-like handling unless you leave off the skeg and the keel
                                        >>shoe (which I suspect is structural). There's room in the cockpit for
                                        >>one person to sleep, two or three to paddle. My boat has about 2/3's
                                        >>of the specified flotation and floats fully swamped with 6" of
                                        >>freeboard. Thanks to the side decks it is very difficult to swamp the
                                        >>boat anyway, except deliberately.
                                        >>
                                        >>The Pirogue uses four sheets of plywood and about 30 board feet of
                                        >>lumber. The prototype was reportedly built in sixteen hours by a
                                        >>professional, but mine took a month of part-time work. I included a
                                        >>lot of details to conceal plywood edges and such, but as drawn, the
                                        >>construction is skiff simple. The only real challenge, if you can call
                                        >>it that, is the deck, which can be a little fussy to fit. The steering
                                        >>system works fine as designed. I didn't like the fixed leeboard, and
                                        >>didn't build it.
                                        >>
                                        >>I am plotting to rebuilt this design out of occume plywood, perhaps
                                        >>4mm, with cedar framing and sealed flotation chambers in lieu of foam.
                                        >>That should get its weight down to a reasonable sixtyish pounds, but
                                        >>may weaken it unacceptably. Perhaps I'll ask Bolger for his thoughts
                                        >>on such modifications before I jump,
                                        >>
                                        >>porky
                                      • garth@breakawaybooks.com
                                        Here s one other mention of the Bolger Pirogue on the web. Not a lot of detail, but some nice pictures -- and an e-mail address.
                                        Message 19 of 23 , May 7, 2001
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Here's one other mention of the Bolger Pirogue on the web. Not a lot
                                          of detail, but some nice pictures -- and an e-mail address.

                                          http://members.tripod.com/peweasel/
                                        • david galvin
                                          Ray, To reiterate Greg s comments, a pirogue is not really comparable to a Sunfish. The Sunfish is a minimal *sail boat*. The Pirogue is a flat bottomed canoe
                                          Message 20 of 23 , May 7, 2001
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Ray,

                                            To reiterate Greg's comments, a pirogue is not really comparable to a
                                            Sunfish. The Sunfish is a minimal *sail boat*. The Pirogue is a flat
                                            bottomed canoe which can be sailed, rowed or paddled (or even
                                            motored, if you care to do such a thing). A Sunfish can be sailed--
                                            that's about it. A Pirogue can be loaded with one man, two school age
                                            kids and a week's worth of camping gear and go somewhere. A Sunfish
                                            can, uh, be sailed. Maybe two people can sail on it, but they better
                                            be wearing bathing suits. It is difficult to paddle, impossible to
                                            row, and a motor would be out of the question. No doubt a Sunfish in
                                            competent hands could sail rings around a Pirogue, point higher, and
                                            outmaneuver it on a course. But that isn't the point. If you want a
                                            match race with a Sunfish there are many more suitable designs.
                                            Still, I thinks my Pirogue is a respectable sailer, given its
                                            limitations.

                                            A lanteen or other low aspect rig would suit the design quite well.
                                            Most rigs have better downwind manners than the sprit, but they
                                            usually have more and longer spars which are difficult to stow. The
                                            boat is small and easily driven, and experimenting with different
                                            rigs would not be expensive. Gather some polytarp or Tyvek and a few
                                            lengths of closet pole and have at it. Report your findings! Btw, a
                                            batwing sail would be weatherly and really really cool looking (hint
                                            hint);o)

                                            If I do build a lighter Pirogue, I will definitely post my findings,
                                            successful or not. I'm still really tempted to start a Micro, however,

                                            porky

                                            (so many boats, so little energy)

                                            --- In bolger@y..., GHC <ghartc@p...> wrote:
                                            ...I would have a hard time
                                            > imagining the pirogue sailing with a Sunfish, but then you can't
                                            really
                                            > paddle the latter, either. Of course, everything's a compromise...
                                            > Gregg Carlson
                                            >
                                            > At 08:31 AM 5/6/2001 -0400, you wrote:
                                            > >Dave: Since I have considered building the 16' pirogue as a
                                            cartopper
                                            > >sailboat to sail singlehanded, your comments were very
                                            informational.
                                            > >However, two things still concern me. First, when you say it
                                            sails well,
                                            > >how would you compare it to the sailing speed of a Sunfish or
                                            similar
                                            > >sailboat. Also, like yourself, I would like the hull weight to
                                            stay under
                                            > >70 lbs. Any future comments in this regard are welcome.
                                            Concerning your
                                            > >sail problem downwind, last weekend I had the opportunity to sail
                                            in a
                                            > >decked sailing canoe with a 44 sq ft ACA lateen sail. With the
                                            lateen rig we
                                            > >had no problem downwind. Also, since it seemed to stay pretty
                                            close to a
                                            > >sunfish that was sailing on the same tack from time to time, I
                                            think I would
                                            > >consider that rig if I built the pirogue. Thanks again for your
                                            comments.
                                            > >Ray
                                          • binksboats@yahoo.com
                                            Jim, I will try to get some digital photos next weekend of the pirogue. I don t have a scanner or I d use some of my snapshots. Hey Jboatguy, wanna go play
                                            Message 21 of 23 , May 7, 2001
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                                              Jim,

                                              I will try to get some digital photos next weekend of the pirogue. I
                                              don't have a scanner or I'd use some of my snapshots. Hey Jboatguy,
                                              wanna go play in the Napa River? I can lift one end of the boat onto
                                              the back of the van, then slide it on, but I'm wrecking the paint
                                              above the van's hatch because the factory rack is so low. I'm hoping
                                              my custom rack/rollers will be ready this week. Thanks to the one
                                              that suggested reinforcing the deck and adding a third bolt for the
                                              outriggers. Sigh...anything to make the boat heavier. The pirogue
                                              feels very secure. I once was halfway to Angel Island from Point
                                              Richmond before common sense took over. Four foot swells in a boat
                                              with less than 12" of freeboard is not something I should be doing.
                                              Never had a problem with downwind yawing...but last Summer I was out
                                              in wind that was way too strong and the hull started surfing. Yee-Ha!

                                              Bink.
                                              --- In bolger@y..., "Jim Chamberlin RCSIS" <jchamberlin@r...> wrote:
                                              > Bink,
                                              >
                                              > Hi....interested in the pirogue. I need an easily built truck
                                              topper that I
                                              > can paddle and sail on impulse and that will live on my roof rack.
                                              >
                                              > Pictures, or a source of info would be appreciated. I checked the
                                              Payson
                                              > web site and couldn't find anything. Web links, too.
                                              >
                                              > Thanks,
                                              >
                                              > Jim C.
                                              >
                                              > > -----Original Message-----
                                              > > From: binksboats@y... [mailto:binksboats@y...]
                                              > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 3:26 PM
                                              > > To: bolger@y...
                                              > > Subject: [bolger] Re: pirogue
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Rique,
                                              > >
                                              > > I LOVE my 16' pirogue. I added hatches to the top of the
                                              fore
                                              > > and aft decks, a pivoting rudder and leeboard and a line from
                                              either
                                              > > side of the rudder clear around the decks to con her from anywhere
                                              in
                                              > > the cockpit. The best way to sail her is facing forward, but if
                                              you
                                              > > are heeled over for a long time its best to wedge a cushion
                                              against
                                              > > the edge of the deck. The rig fits in the bottom and I put a
                                              > > removable seat just aft of the mid-frame to paddle or row her.
                                              Rowing
                                              > > has been a disapointment because the outriggers wobble too much
                                              with
                                              > > the two bolts shown on the plans that fasten them to the sides.
                                              > > I'm thinking of a better way to fasten them. Paddling is
                                              great...for
                                              > > a flat-bottomed boat it tracks straight and far. I also have two
                                              > > seats fore and aft to paddle her like a canoe. Everything comes
                                              out
                                              > > for pure sailing. Its a little heavy for one person to get it on
                                              the
                                              > > van. I keep scraping the paint off the back of the roof. I'm
                                              having a
                                              > > rack built that fits into the trailer receiver like a bicycle
                                              carrier
                                              > > and has rollers on top. I'll post pics when its done if it does
                                              the
                                              > > trick.
                                              > >
                                              > > Bink.
                                              > > --- In bolger@y..., Rique@p... wrote:
                                              > > > Hi I'm a new member living on the Hauraki Gulf in New Zealand. I
                                              am
                                              > > > just about to finish building a Wharram outrigger canoe and I am
                                              > > > looking around for my next project. The Bolger boat that appeals
                                              > > most
                                              > > > to me is his 16'pirogue. My question is, with all the entries in
                                              > > > these lists about so many boats, and how they perform, this one
                                              > > > hardly gets a mention! How come? Has anyone out there had any
                                              > > > experiances sailing one? If so how about letting me in on the
                                              > > secret.
                                              > > > If not experiance, how about some theory, ie why would it not
                                              sail
                                              > > at
                                              > > > least as well as say june bug which is 2' shorter and with the
                                              same
                                              > > > beam? etc.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I would love to hear some opinions on the subject.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Thanx,
                                              > > > Rique
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Bolger rules!!!
                                              > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
                                              > > - no flogging dead horses
                                              > > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                                              > > - stay on topic and punctuate
                                              > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                                              > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
                                              > > Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                            • John Bell
                                              ... From: GHC To: Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: pirogue ... in ... Lest the
                                              Message 22 of 23 , May 7, 2001
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: "GHC" <ghartc@...>
                                                To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 12:27 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: pirogue


                                                | While I didn't like sailing my Bolger Pirogue, it's a neat enough design
                                                in
                                                | other respects and easy to build.

                                                Lest the group get confused, there are at least three pirogues by Bolger:

                                                1) the 16' x 3'3" row/sail/paddle boat, original prototype by Bernie
                                                Wolfard.
                                                2) the "Peero", which Greg mentions above original prototype by John Harris,
                                                plan on CO'D's website.
                                                3) the 12' Payson Pirogue, called "Canoe" in BWAOM. A double chined taped
                                                seam double paddle canoe that was never designed for sail.

                                                Pirogue #1 above is probably the most able of the three, also the heaviest.

                                                JB
                                              • Clyde S. Wisner
                                                If you want to fly, check Beth, Kamakazi canoe yawl, which Tim Fatchen is marketing for the designer, on his schooner/square boat pages. Clyde
                                                Message 23 of 23 , May 8, 2001
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                                                  If you want to fly, check Beth, Kamakazi canoe yawl, which Tim Fatchen is marketing for the designer,
                                                  on his schooner/square boat pages. Clyde

                                                  GHC wrote:

                                                  > While I didn't like sailing my Bolger Pirogue, it's a neat enough design in
                                                  > other respects and easy to build.
                                                  >
                                                  > I suppose sailing canoes are all quite tender; there's really no where to
                                                  > hike out. In any kind of breeze, it just didn't work for me. Other people
                                                  > really like the pirogue, though, so I would guess they either enjoy the
                                                  > challenge or sail in lighter breezes than we get. I would have a hard time
                                                  > imagining the pirogue sailing with a Sunfish, but then you can't really
                                                  > paddle the latter, either. Of course, everything's a compromise.
                                                  >
                                                  > I don't know if anyone noted, but Bolger's pirogue was published in
                                                  > "Messing About..." a few years ago.
                                                  >
                                                  > Gregg Carlson
                                                  >
                                                  > At 08:31 AM 5/6/2001 -0400, you wrote:
                                                  > >Dave: Since I have considered building the 16' pirogue as a cartopper
                                                  > >sailboat to sail singlehanded, your comments were very informational.
                                                  > >However, two things still concern me. First, when you say it sails well,
                                                  > >how would you compare it to the sailing speed of a Sunfish or similar
                                                  > >sailboat. Also, like yourself, I would like the hull weight to stay under
                                                  > >70 lbs. Any future comments in this regard are welcome. Concerning your
                                                  > >sail problem downwind, last weekend I had the opportunity to sail in a
                                                  > >decked sailing canoe with a 44 sq ft ACA lateen sail. With the lateen rig we
                                                  > >had no problem downwind. Also, since it seemed to stay pretty close to a
                                                  > >sunfish that was sailing on the same tack from time to time, I think I would
                                                  > >consider that rig if I built the pirogue. Thanks again for your comments.
                                                  > >Ray
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >>From: "david galvin" <porcupine@...>
                                                  > >>Reply-To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > >>To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > >>Subject: [bolger] Re: pirogue
                                                  > >>Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 06:00:50 -0000
                                                  > >>
                                                  > >>Buried somewhere in the depths of Duckworks Magazine is a little
                                                  > >>article I did on my 16' Pirogue. Mine is bright finished luan
                                                  > >>(meranti) 1/4" plywood, with a daggerboard slot and a few other minor
                                                  > >>changes. If I were to build it again (and I might) I would try to make
                                                  > >>it as lightweight as possible. As built it weighs more than 90 lbs., a
                                                  > >>trifle too heavy for me to lift onto roof racks by myself. Also,
                                                  > >>sailing in rocky Catskill and Adirondack lakes with a daggerboard
                                                  > >>sticking two feet underwater makes me nervous, so I would fashion a
                                                  > >>removable pivoting leeboard.
                                                  > >>
                                                  > >>It sails very well, except downwind, where the boomless sprit rig
                                                  > >>insists on jibing unpredictably. I understand that this is is a common
                                                  > >>fault of the rig no matter what boat it is on. I made my sail from a
                                                  > >>Sailrite kit in one evening. The spars fit inside the boat for
                                                  > >>paddling or rowing. I find the oarlock outriggers function well as
                                                  > >>designed, but perhaps I lucky when I built them. The boat tracks dead
                                                  > >>straight when paddled or rowed, and turns majestically. Don't expect
                                                  > >>quick kayak-like handling unless you leave off the skeg and the keel
                                                  > >>shoe (which I suspect is structural). There's room in the cockpit for
                                                  > >>one person to sleep, two or three to paddle. My boat has about 2/3's
                                                  > >>of the specified flotation and floats fully swamped with 6" of
                                                  > >>freeboard. Thanks to the side decks it is very difficult to swamp the
                                                  > >>boat anyway, except deliberately.
                                                  > >>
                                                  > >>The Pirogue uses four sheets of plywood and about 30 board feet of
                                                  > >>lumber. The prototype was reportedly built in sixteen hours by a
                                                  > >>professional, but mine took a month of part-time work. I included a
                                                  > >>lot of details to conceal plywood edges and such, but as drawn, the
                                                  > >>construction is skiff simple. The only real challenge, if you can call
                                                  > >>it that, is the deck, which can be a little fussy to fit. The steering
                                                  > >>system works fine as designed. I didn't like the fixed leeboard, and
                                                  > >>didn't build it.
                                                  > >>
                                                  > >>I am plotting to rebuilt this design out of occume plywood, perhaps
                                                  > >>4mm, with cedar framing and sealed flotation chambers in lieu of foam.
                                                  > >>That should get its weight down to a reasonable sixtyish pounds, but
                                                  > >>may weaken it unacceptably. Perhaps I'll ask Bolger for his thoughts
                                                  > >>on such modifications before I jump,
                                                  > >>
                                                  > >>porky
                                                  >
                                                  > Bolger rules!!!
                                                  > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
                                                  > - no flogging dead horses
                                                  > - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                                                  > - stay on topic and punctuate
                                                  > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                                                  > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                                                  >
                                                  >
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