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Sail Area for the breakdown schooner?

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  • David Ryan
    FBBB -- I ve let out my copy of BWOM (mistake.) Can any of you tell me what the sail area of the breakdown schooner is with and without the staysail? YIBB,
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 23, 2001
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      FBBB --

      I've let out my copy of BWOM (mistake.)

      Can any of you tell me what the sail area of the breakdown schooner
      is with and without the staysail?

      YIBB,

      David

      CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
      134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
      New York, New York 10001
      http://www.crumblingempire.com
      (212) 247-0296
    • c_i_becker@yahoo.com.au
      Hi David, the sail areas are: 80 JIB 268 FORESAIL 70 MAIN STAYSAIL 303 MAINSAIL SA (sans staysail) = 651 sqft SA (with staysail) = 721 sqft Interesting vessel
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 23, 2001
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        Hi David,

        the sail areas are:


        80 JIB
        268 FORESAIL
        70 MAIN STAYSAIL
        303 MAINSAIL

        SA (sans staysail) = 651 sqft
        SA (with staysail) = 721 sqft

        Interesting vessel that schooner....be a mother to maintain though
        wouldn't it?

        Chris
        sunny Queensland, Australia.





        --- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
        > FBBB --
        >
        > I've let out my copy of BWOM (mistake.)
        >
        > Can any of you tell me what the sail area of the breakdown schooner
        > is with and without the staysail?
        >
        > YIBB,
        >
        > David
        >
      • wmrpage@aol.com
        In a message dated 4/23/01 12:05:32 PM Central Daylight Time, ... 303 ft.^2 Main; 260 ft.^2 Fore; 80 ft.^2 Jib; 70 ft.^2 Staysail Bill in MN
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 23, 2001
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          In a message dated 4/23/01 12:05:32 PM Central Daylight Time,
          david@... writes:


          Can any of you tell me what the sail area of the breakdown schooner
          is with and without the staysail?



          303 ft.^2 Main; 260 ft.^2 Fore; 80 ft.^2 Jib; 70 ft.^2  Staysail

          Bill in MN
        • David Ryan
          ... I dunno. Once a boat is painted for the first time, touching up and/repainting isn t that big a deal. I m not especially finicky. I m getting doubled light
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 23, 2001
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            >Interesting vessel that schooner....be a mother to maintain though
            >wouldn't it?
            >

            I dunno. Once a boat is painted for the first time, touching up
            and/repainting isn't that big a deal. I'm not especially finicky.

            I'm getting doubled light scooner notions again, but wanted to
            compare what the theoretical sail area of an LS2 to a real boat in
            the same size range. As I suspected, the LS2 is more heavily
            canvassed, but not by as much as a thought. I've already found sails
            a could cut a suit for the LS2 out of. But the LS2 would have a 25
            foot main boom and a 450 square foot mainsail. That alone seems like
            a good reason to consider alternatives!

            I like the capacities of the breakdown schooner, but I long for
            something a little more traditional looking -- bigger difference
            between the main and foresail, sleeker deck houses and a sprit
            please! Yes, I know each of these things has it's reasons, but
            practicality is just another design parameter that needs to be worked
            into the design equation. Give "practicality" too much room to roam
            and you'll end up with all your money in a CD and no boats at all!
            ;-)

            YIBB,

            David

            CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
            134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
            New York, New York 10001
            http://www.crumblingempire.com
            (212) 247-0296
          • ghartc@pipeline.com
            Have a look at a Herreschoff Meadowlark, a 33 to 38 foot sharpie gaff- rigged, leeboard schooner. It could easily be built in plywood. I sailed one last
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 23, 2001
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              Have a look at a Herreschoff Meadowlark, a 33 to 38 foot sharpie gaff-
              rigged, leeboard schooner. It could easily be built in plywood.

              I sailed one last summer, quite an interesting boat. Auxiliary
              diesel, shallow draft - in fact, the one I sailed is for sale in
              Texas.

              Gregg Carlson

              --- In bolger@y..., David Ryan <david@c...> wrote:
              > I'm getting doubled light scooner notions again, but wanted to
              > compare what the theoretical sail area of an LS2 to a real boat in
              > the same size range. As I suspected, the LS2 is more heavily
              > canvassed, but not by as much as a thought. I've already found
              >sails a could cut a suit for the LS2 out of. But the LS2 would have
              >a 25 foot main boom and a 450 square foot mainsail. That alone seems
              >like a good reason to consider alternatives!
              >
              > I like the capacities of the breakdown schooner, but I long for
              > something a little more traditional looking -- bigger difference
              > between the main and foresail, sleeker deck houses and a sprit
              > please! Yes, I know each of these things has it's reasons, but
              > practicality is just another design parameter that needs to be
              > into the design equation. Give "practicality" too much room to roam
              > and you'll end up with all your money in a CD and no boats at all!
              > ;-)
            • pvanderw@optonline.net
              ... It still sounds like a Reuel Parker Terrapin 34 to me. He has a schooner-rigged Egret 33, too, but no pictures. Peter
              Message 6 of 14 , Apr 24, 2001
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                > I'm getting doubled light scooner notions again, but wanted to
                > compare what the theoretical sail area of an LS2 to a real boat in
                > the same size range.

                It still sounds like a Reuel Parker Terrapin 34 to me. He has a
                schooner-rigged Egret 33, too, but no pictures.

                Peter

                http://www.parker-marine.com/terrapinpage.htm
              • kwilson800@aol.com
                Actually, the Meadowlark can t be built in sheet plywood without serious changes to the shape of the bottom. In fact, it has the reputation of being
                Message 7 of 14 , Apr 24, 2001
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                  Actually, the Meadowlark can't be built in sheet plywood without
                  serious changes to the shape of the bottom. In fact, it has the
                  reputation of being devilishly difficult to build as designed. You
                  could cold-mold the bottom and use sheet ply for the sides, I think.
                  L. Francis Herreshoff supposedly designed it to be easily built by
                  amateurs, but practicality wasn't one of his strong points. They're
                  wonderful boats, though.

                  --- In bolger@y..., ghartc@p... wrote:
                  > Have a look at a Herreschoff Meadowlark, a 33 to 38 foot sharpie
                  gaff-
                  > rigged, leeboard schooner. It could easily be built in plywood.
                • David Ryan
                  ... What it really is is the Terrapin 34 stretched to 47 feet. (Both the Terrapin and the LS2 have 10 foot beams.) Parker s also got a Terrapin 42, and I m
                  Message 8 of 14 , Apr 24, 2001
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                    >> I'm getting doubled light scooner notions again, but wanted to
                    >> compare what the theoretical sail area of an LS2 to a real boat in
                    >> the same size range.
                    >
                    >It still sounds like a Reuel Parker Terrapin 34 to me. He has a
                    >schooner-rigged Egret 33, too, but no pictures.
                    >
                    What it really is is the Terrapin 34 stretched to 47 feet. (Both the
                    Terrapin and the LS2 have 10 foot beams.) Parker's also got a
                    Terrapin 42, and I'm nearly ready to send away for the study plans.

                    Using the Margaret Ellen for comparison, and checking prices at the
                    Despot, I think I can could build a 2:1 light scooner for about
                    $5000. That's everything: epoxy & glass covered hull, spars, and
                    butchered second hand sails. Not bad for a years worth of building
                    fun. But what do you do with a 47' open boat? That's where I worry
                    the cleverness and cost start to creep in. Next thing you know, your
                    5K hobby is a 15K, half-finished project sitting in the front yard,
                    an embarrassment to you and the neighborhood.

                    Still, the lure of building a big boat is growing hard to resist. In
                    my particular situation, hull length is not a particular liability,
                    and offers substantial benefits: more room, more stability, and more
                    easily driven by a given sail plan. In my mind's eye, I can see us
                    anchored up off Cartwright shoals in the early evening, fresh raked
                    clams as an appetizer, and fresh caught bass filets frying on the
                    Colman stove.

                    YIBB,

                    David





                    CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
                    134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
                    New York, New York 10001
                    http://www.crumblingempire.com
                    (212) 247-0296
                  • GHC
                    Wow, that s surprising, but then I haven t seen the plans nor the bottom on the copy I sailed. I just read The Compleat Cruiser by LFH, and he no doubt had
                    Message 9 of 14 , Apr 24, 2001
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                      Wow, that's surprising, but then I haven't seen the plans nor the bottom on
                      the copy I sailed. I just read "The Compleat Cruiser" by LFH, and he no
                      doubt had little sympathy for amateurs and hackers, so I wouldn't be
                      surprised.

                      And, I would guess the boat would have been designed in the 50's or so when
                      good planks were easier to come by. Was it to be cross-planked?

                      Come to think of it, I *think* the boat I sailed may have been glass...
                      Seemed like there were some heretics doing the same thing with the
                      Meadowlark as with my Rozinante. And, this one was stretched to 38' - a
                      beautiful boat, though, with it's stubby little gaffs and custom bronze
                      gizmos.

                      Gregg Carlson


                      At 01:45 PM 4/24/2001 -0000, you wrote:
                      >Actually, the Meadowlark can't be built in sheet plywood without
                      >serious changes to the shape of the bottom. In fact, it has the
                      >reputation of being devilishly difficult to build as designed. You
                      >could cold-mold the bottom and use sheet ply for the sides, I think.
                      >L. Francis Herreshoff supposedly designed it to be easily built by
                      >amateurs, but practicality wasn't one of his strong points. They're
                      >wonderful boats, though.
                      >
                      >--- In bolger@y..., ghartc@p... wrote:
                      >> Have a look at a Herreschoff Meadowlark, a 33 to 38 foot sharpie
                      >gaff-
                      >> rigged, leeboard schooner. It could easily be built in plywood.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >Bolger rules!!!
                      >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
                      >- no flogging dead horses
                      >- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                      >- stay on topic and punctuate
                      >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                      >- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
                      01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                      >
                      >
                      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • pvanderw@optonline.net
                      ... with it s stubby little gaffs and custom bronze gizmos. That would be the Alan Vaitses FG version. PCB wrote that the extra 5 feet is all stern overhang.
                      Message 10 of 14 , Apr 24, 2001
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                        > And, this one was stretched to 38' - a > beautiful boat, though,
                        with it's stubby little gaffs and custom bronze gizmos.

                        That would be the Alan Vaitses FG version. PCB wrote that the extra 5
                        feet is all stern overhang.

                        The original plans called for nice tapers on all the spars, including
                        the booms. We are so used to aluminum extrusions that a tapered boom
                        catches us by surprise these days. They add a lot of grace to the
                        overall effect. There is a lot of standing rigging though, which
                        allows light, slender (tapered) masts in a boat with limited
                        stability.

                        Still, it's an old design. How about a Bolger Manatee? He thought of
                        that as a Meadowlark replacement. I personally feel that the premier
                        Bolger replacement for the Meadowlark is Berengaria: about the same
                        size and accomodations, but with the water ballast, the Bolger-
                        proportion schooner rig, and Birdwatcher-type accomodations. Bolger
                        thru and thru.

                        Those with experience say that strip planking is not so difficult,
                        just hard work fairing the hull.

                        Peter
                      • David Ryan
                        ... I ve been looking at Berernargia off and on since I got BWOM, wondering if it might not be my next boat. But I think too big a price is paid for
                        Message 11 of 14 , Apr 24, 2001
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                          >Still, it's an old design. How about a Bolger Manatee? He thought of
                          >that as a Meadowlark replacement. I personally feel that the premier
                          >Bolger replacement for the Meadowlark is Berengaria: about the same
                          >size and accomodations, but with the water ballast, the Bolger-
                          >proportion schooner rig, and Birdwatcher-type accomodations. Bolger
                          >thru and thru.

                          I've been looking at Berernargia off and on since I got BWOM,
                          wondering if it might not be my next boat. But I think too big a
                          price is paid for seaworthiness I'm coming to realize I real don't
                          need. (Doesn't BWOM talk about taking Berernargia to Hawaii?)

                          I do like the simple interior. Most boats are too clever; trying to
                          stuff too much into too little space. Everything does more than one
                          thing, but you can't do any two at once.

                          YIBB,

                          David


                          CRUMBLING EMPIRE PRODUCTIONS
                          134 West 26th St. 12th Floor
                          New York, New York 10001
                          http://www.crumblingempire.com
                          (212) 247-0296
                        • vcgraphics@theriver.com
                          ... 50 s or so... a beautiful boat, though, with it s stubby little gaffs and custom bronze gizmos. ... I recollect reading in one of Bolger s articles that
                          Message 12 of 14 , Apr 24, 2001
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                            --- In bolger@y..., GHC <ghartc@p...> wrote:

                            > And, I would guess the boat would have been designed in the
                            50's or so... a beautiful boat, though, with it's stubby little
                            gaffs
                            and custom bronze gizmos.
                            >
                            > Gregg Carlson

                            I recollect reading in one of Bolger's articles that LFH told him
                            (PCB) that the leeboards on Meadowlark were too small as
                            designed. I don't think the plans were changed. This surprised
                            Bolger.

                            Vance
                          • sam betty
                            Its a stretch for my memory, but I think that the meadowlark was intended to planked longitudinally on the bottom, and somehow I remember the planking was
                            Message 13 of 14 , Apr 24, 2001
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                              Its a stretch for my memory, but I think that the meadowlark was intended to planked longitudinally on the bottom, and somehow I remember the planking was batten seamed. Anyone got an idea on this?

                              GHC wrote:

                              Wow, that's surprising, but then I haven't seen the plans nor the bottom on
                              the copy I sailed.  I just read "The Compleat Cruiser" by LFH, and he no
                              doubt had little sympathy for amateurs and hackers, so I wouldn't be
                              surprised.

                              And, I would guess the boat would have been designed in the 50's or so when
                              good planks were easier to come by. Was it to be cross-planked?

                              Come to think of it, I *think* the boat I sailed may have been glass...
                              Seemed like there were some heretics doing the same thing with the
                              Meadowlark as with my Rozinante.  And, this one was stretched to 38' - a
                              beautiful boat, though, with it's stubby little gaffs and custom bronze
                              gizmos.

                              Gregg Carlson
                               

                              At 01:45 PM 4/24/2001 -0000, you wrote:
                              >Actually, the Meadowlark can't be built in sheet plywood without
                              >serious changes to the shape of the bottom.  In fact, it has the
                              >reputation of being devilishly difficult to build as designed.  You
                              >could cold-mold the bottom and use sheet ply for the sides, I think.
                              >L. Francis Herreshoff supposedly designed it to be easily built by
                              >amateurs, but practicality wasn't one of his strong points.  They're
                              >wonderful boats, though.
                              >
                              >--- In bolger@y..., ghartc@p... wrote:
                              >> Have a look at a Herreschoff Meadowlark, a 33 to 38 foot sharpie
                              >gaff-
                              >> rigged, leeboard schooner.  It could easily be built in plywood.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >Bolger rules!!!
                              >- no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
                              >- no flogging dead horses
                              >- add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                              >- stay on topic and punctuate
                              >- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                              >- To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
                              01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                              >
                              >
                              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              >
                              >
                              >
                               


                              Bolger rules!!!
                              - no cursing, flaming, trolling, or spamming
                              - no flogging dead horses
                              - add something: take "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
                              - stay on topic and punctuate
                              - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
                              - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
                               

                              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                            • pvanderw@optonline.net
                              Back about April 23, there was a flurry of posting about LFH s Meadowlark. I came across a picture of one that I took at Mystic Seaport about 1998. I will post
                              Message 14 of 14 , Aug 6 7:52 AM
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                                Back about April 23, there was a flurry of posting about LFH's
                                Meadowlark. I came across a picture of one that I took at Mystic
                                Seaport about 1998. I will post a scan in Bolger2.

                                Note how delicate the spars look compared to what we are used to
                                seeing with aluminium extrusions.

                                Peter
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