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69955Re: [Bulk] Re: [bolger] cedar paneling

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  • Chief Redelk
    Nov 14, 2013
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      I've cut a lot of Cedar trees.. If it lays on the ground for very long
      the soft parts rot away like a pine tree, pretty fast.. All that will
      be left is the heart and it does not rot fast.. There is not much of
      it but it makes good kindling like the pine heart. I would not build a
      boat out of Cedar UNLESS..It were cedar strips cut out of a cedar
      board. ALSO.. IF I used cedar strips ( once they were used to build
      canoes ) I would make sure to cover it and keep water off the wood.
      Years ago cedar canoes were covered in Canvas and paint... SO.. the
      short answer is. NO..I simply would NOT use this stuff...I don't like
      it any better than Luan..

      Years ago I found some Luan that was decent and it did not check but
      over the years Luan has gotten so sorry it's almost usless... I did
      use some lately......Pine WILL check every time..No exceptions.....
      Most woods WILL check if used on a boat. The small cracks open the
      paint lets water seep under the paint into the wood and the wood
      swells further cracking the paint and water can soak into the wood
      causing rot..In winter the wet wood freezes and damages the boat even
      more... To stop Checking I laminate my wood with a fabric and
      paint.....

      On a cheap boat I use Titebond II to stop checking. I now use pine ply
      plywood for all my boats..So far this has worked well stopping
      Checking on all wood including Luan....I apply TB2 to the new wood
      then coat that with Exterior Latex house Paint so the two can cure as
      one....

      Apply TB2 with a brush and DO NOT miss one spot of new wood..Soak it
      into cracks etc. It will heal and seal...IF you could find the voids
      and fill them with this it will seal them as well. I have injected it
      into voids by drilling a small hole and using a syringe and
      needle...It takes a while to fill a void due to shrinkage..If you cut
      a bigger hole you can pack it with wet saw dust and TB2. Eventually it
      will fill and works well. I tape over that with FB..

      For an expensive boat I would use Epoxy and fiberglass..

      My next boat will be12 feet long. It will be heavier than a Luan boat
      but it will be trailered. It will be built out of 1/4 Ext. Glue Pine
      Plywood and 3/8. All wood will be sealed with TB2 and painted over
      with Latex Paint..It will be stored dry out of the sun and it will
      last a very long time. There is a benefit to a sort of heavy boat. It
      will move through a tack better and it may sail better.. In water
      weight is not as important ( up to a point ) was it is to a man
      handling the boat on land..

      The problem with 3 ply Ext Glue Pine plywood is Moisture causing
      WRINKLES or big long strips of bubbles where the top coat buckles due
      to a void beneath.. It looks ugly but if it's small and inside the
      hull it's seldom a real problem. Some of them open will crack and open
      and those I fix...The ones that do not open up I don't bother with if
      they are small and inside the hull. When the boat is fabric coated on
      the exterior I have never had the hull wrinkle. If not coated with
      fabric and the wood does wrinkly you can fix the wrinkle easy. Cut it
      out and glue in a strip or fill and epoxy and glass over.... .

      After a while you will have found all the weak spots and repaired
      them. In fact as my boats age they look better due to making repairs
      and adding more paint..In fact they are better..

      I wet sanded ( latex must be wet sanded ) and painted my old Skiff
      this year. She looks new is solid and better than the day she was
      born..I scarphed the mast making it longer and went from a Sprit sail
      to a Leg Of mutton..

      All my boats are dry stored.. In fact during winter I cover them with
      blankets inside the shed so moisture don't form on them as Frost..
      Frost can form on things rain and snow can't reach..

      Taking care of a boat is the life of a boat.. Wooden boats can last
      for a life time. I expect to die and leave some nice boats behind..
      Old but nice..

      If my grandsons take care of them these boats will be alive when they
      die and none of them are made out of expensive wood. ONLY 1 has Marine
      Grade Plywood. That MG ply checked like crazy until I put fabric on
      it.. Good luck, Chief...

      On 11/14/13, Christopher C. Wetherill <wetherillc@...> wrote:
      > There are also the questions of what species the non-display plies come
      > from and what glue was used. Most paneling consists of a finish veneer
      > laid over a cheap core and a non-finish back skin with interior grade
      > glue. I would not want to bet my life on paneling.
      >
      > V/R
      > Chris
      >
      >
      > On 11/14/2013 11:59 AM, Roger Padvorac wrote:
      >> ?
      >>
      >> A critical issue is checking if the wood plies are heartwood or
      >> sapwood. This could vary from sheet to sheet, so people's experience
      >> with it could vary.
      >> While the heartwood of the western red cedar is more resistant to rot
      >> than the heartwood of Douglass fir, the sapwood of western red cedar
      >> rots faster than the heartwood of Douglass fir.
      >> Confusing this situation is that while the western red cedar is in the
      >> cypress family, in the genus Thuja, and cedars are in the pine family
      >> in the genus Cedrus.
      >> It seems possible that the difference in rot resistance between
      >> sapwood and heartwood is a common issue, and with the general lowering
      >> of standards, that there could be more sapwood in plywood than there
      >> used to be. As a general rule of thumb, the sapwood is lighter in
      >> color than the heartwood.
      >> It seems likely the sapwood of western red cedar is so vulnerable to
      >> rot in part because it is so soft. While its hardwood of western red
      >> cedar is also comparatively soft, it is also saturated with very toxic
      >> chemicals (unlike the sapwood), and so is very resistant to rot. These
      >> issues might affect other Thuja and Cedrus species.
      >> May your day be filled with clarity, grace, strength, insight,
      >> balance, cooperating, and warm laughter,
      >> Roger
      >>
      >> ----- Original Message -----
      >> *From:* chadnn@... <mailto:chadnn@...>
      >> *To:* bolger@yahoogroups.com <mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com>
      >> *Sent:* Thursday, November 14, 2013 5:53 AM
      >> *Subject:* [bolger] cedar paneling
      >>
      >> Has anyone use 8mm x 48" x 96" cedar paneling (see Home Depot) to
      >> build a boat ?
      >>
      >> Thanks
      >>
      >> _,_.___
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
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