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13826Re: latex paints

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  • dbaldnz@yahoo.co.nz
    Aug 22, 2001
      Don, your comment about old-time painters saying always use oil based
      primer for latex top coats....I had the same feedback as you from
      older painters, but when Don Carnell replied to my query, he
      said "Why would you want to"? Well, I tried the masking tape test,
      and the latex primer has stuck like glue.....not a bit has come off
      in over 100ft of very firm taping.
      However, I would not use latex anywhere underwater, at this point
      anyway.
      DonB

      --- In bolger@y..., dcraig@w... wrote:
      > Richard, I would suggest going to Dave Carnell's Boat Building
      Page
      > and reading his article on Latex Paints For Boats - I would give
      him
      > some credence since he is a chemical engineer.
      >
      > > i have a quick (i hope) question about latex house paints. I
      have
      > been reading some propaganda
      > > (advertisements) that talk about letting the wood "breath." i
      know
      > that proper moisture content wood
      > > should not need to "breath", but does this mean that latex house
      > paint is formulated to be porous?
      >
      > That's pretty much exactly what it means. In an earlier life, I
      was
      > making carved wooden signs for a living and I did NOT want paint
      > blistering. These signs were going to be exposed to sun and
      elements
      > 24-7-365, year after year. I researched the literature from
      > experienced sign makers and learned that the best protective
      coating
      > was not oil paint but latex. Oil paint had the best reputation
      > because it had been used for centuries - it was all that was
      > available, not counting shellac and lacquer, milk paint etc. - and
      > latex was new and crappy at first, but excellent today.
      > The proper moisture content of wood is not worth bothering
      about,
      > for our purposes, because kiln dried values are worthless as soon
      as
      > you stack the wood in an open air warehouse - and that's where most
      of
      > us find our stuff.
      > All wood, seasoned or not, has moisture in it to a greater or
      > lesser degree. Depending on the moisture content inside the wood
      and
      > the outside climatic conditions, oil paint can be a great coating
      for
      > many years or it can start to blister in a few years. The reason
      for
      > blistering is that the moisture wants out and the oil paint won't
      let
      > it out, so the wood and paint separate. Oil paint is not porous
      for
      > the passage of moisture.
      > I recently scraped and repainted a fancy fence that had been
      > painted with oil six years ago. In places the paint pulled off in
      > strips. Underneath, the wood was green with fungus and wet; wet,
      even
      > after five weeks of hot dry weather. There was nothing wrong with
      the
      > paint, it was thick and the strips were strong - but there was a
      > failure in the bond between paint and wood.
      > Latex paint, in my humble opinion based on research (reading)
      and
      > experimentation, is porous to the passage of moisture and will not
      > blister (that doesn't mean it won't strip off epoxy that has not
      been
      > properly prepared). The best paint I found for signage was Pratt &
      > Lambert exterior acrylic/latex house trim paint. It has a high
      level
      > of pigment content, so color retention lasts longer under weather.
      > Signs I painted six years ago with acrylic/latex have still not
      > blistered.
      > Honestly, I do not know, or have an opinion, on how latex would
      > perform on the bottom of a boat that sits in the water all season.
      But
      > for a dry sailer, I would use it.
      >
      > how
      > > do i tell an intentionally porous latex house paint from a good
      one
      > for a boat.
      >
      > For a boat, I would consider an acrylic/latex 'deck and porch'
      > enamel - paint that is intended to be walked on should be the most
      > durable.
      > I've had this discussion with so-called house painters who do
      this
      > for a living, and I hear things like 'latex paints on a fence or
      sign
      > are good, but you still have to prime it with an oil base primer.'
      Go
      > figure.
      >
      > Don Craig
      >
      >
      >
      > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester,
      > MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
      > > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
      > > >
      > --------------------------------------------------------------------
      --
      > --
      > > >
      > > > There are 5 messages in this issue.
      > > >
      > > > Topics in this digest:
      > > >
      > > > 1. RE: Re: Centerboard pivot
      > > > From: "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...>
      > > > 2. Re: Sharpie Pounding
      > > > From: raymcquin@y...
      > > > 3. Re: Sanding Latex Primer?
      > > > From: dbaldnz@y...
      > > > 4. Re: Re: Sharpie Pounding
      > > > From: "Harry W. James" <welshman@p...>
      > > > 5. An article to salivate over . . .
      > > > From: William Samson <willsamson@y...>
      > > >
      > > >
      >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > > >
      >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > > >
      > > > Message: 1
      > > > Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 22:55:54 -0500
      > > > From: "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...>
      > > > Subject: RE: Re: Centerboard pivot
      > > >
      > > > Richard:
      > > >
      > > > I like the UHMW idea. You may remember that I used it for
      parrels
      > on my
      > > > Caprice. Also for hatch glides. You can get extruded bushing
      > stock from
      > > > McMaster-carr with 1-1/4" ID and various OD's.
      > > >
      > > > Chuck
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Ah, that would make sense.
      > > > >
      > > > > Googling shows quite a few references to "uhmw bushings
      aluminum
      > > > > shaft"... Even a couple of marine ones.
      > > > >
      > > > > For the low load, slow speed application of rudder,
      centerboard,
      > and
      > > > > tabernacle pivot, think I could get away with 1 1/8" aluminum
      > > > > shafting and uhmw poly bushings?
      > > > >
      > > > > I suspect the bushings and shafts would last quite a few
      years
      > of
      > > > > normal trailer sailing use. I'd be sure to design the setup
      so
      > it's
      > > > > easy to dissassemble for inspections and/or replacements.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In bolger@y..., kwilson800@a... wrote:
      > > > > > Why doesn't aluminum make a good bearing? The reason bare
      > aluminum
      > > > > > doesn't "rust" in normal use is that it forms a very thin
      > coating
      > > > > of
      > > > > > aluminum oxide on the surface which inhibits further
      > corrosion. In
      > > > > a
      > > > > > bearing application, this coating is continuously worn off
      and
      > > > > > renewed. Well, guess what, the aluminuum oxide left inside
      > the
      > > > > > beaing is quite an effective abrasive. You could probably
      > hardcoat
      > > > > > anodize it, or "hardlube", which is hardcoat anodizing
      > impregnated
      > > > > > with teflon. There are also several proprietary processes
      to
      > make
      > > > > > aluminum into a decent bearing surface, "Nituff" is one of
      the
      > > > > better-
      > > > > > known ones, but by the time you've gone through all that
      > trouble,
      > > > > why
      > > > > > not just use bronze or stainless steel in the first place?
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Keith Wilson
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In bolger@y..., richard@s... wrote:
      > > > > > > UHMW poly has a pretty low melting point. Wonder if I
      could
      > cast
      > > > > > > parts out of it?
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Also, why doesn't it work well with aluminum?
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Bolger rules!!!
      > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead
      > horses
      > > > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
      > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all
      you
      > like
      > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
      > > > > Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
      > > > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
      > > > >
      > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > > >
      >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > > >
      > > > Message: 2
      > > > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 04:49:23 -0000
      > > > From: raymcquin@y...
      > > > Subject: Re: Sharpie Pounding
      > > >
      > > > Bryan,
      > > >
      > > > I've searched for info on Phil Theil with no luck. Can you
      > provide
      > > > any links to his designs?
      > > >
      > > > Thanks,
      > > > Ray McQuin
      > > >
      > > > --- In bolger@y..., king@c... wrote:
      > > > > My wife and I just spent a weekend on my Escargot, a bolger
      > > > inspired
      > > > > design by Phil Theil.
      > > >
      > > >
      >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > > >
      >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > > >
      > > > Message: 3
      > > > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 05:11:04 -0000
      > > > From: dbaldnz@y...
      > > > Subject: Re: Sanding Latex Primer?
      > > >
      > > > Glen, I am nearly through re-painting my Micro with latex. I
      > sanded
      > > > the previous enamel paint back to the epoxy, touched up some
      parts
      > of
      > > > the epoxy and scrubbed down with a scotchbrite plastic pad.
      Then
      > > > started again with a latex primer, which has stuck really well,
      as
      > > > the paint manufacturer said it would. It's filling capacity was
      > > > about the same as the previous enamel filler. I only applied 1
      > coat
      > > > of primer, then sanded it lightly with 180 grit on my
      > > > random/orbital. The paint sanded really well, much like enamel
      > > > primer. Between finishing coats, I hand sanded lightly
      with "wet
      > &
      > > > dry", again very similar to enamel. Masking tape applied as
      > firmly
      > > > as I could by hand for boot top etc has not pulled away any of
      the
      > > > paint. I always pull the tape off as soon as I finish
      > > > painting...never leave it on for longer.
      > > > These newer latex paints are a very different animal to earlier
      > > > versions, reflecting the huge amount of work that has gone into
      > > > development. All in all I am very happy so far, but I guess the
      > > > final test, sun, salt and time has yet to come.
      > > > DonB
      > > >
      > > > --- In bolger@y..., "Glen Gibson" <glen@i...> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I'm in the final countdown for getting my Micro finished
      (down
      > to
      > > > the
      > > > > last 5 items, so maybe this week) and am contemplating the
      > painting
      > > > > process. You guys have pretty much convinced me of using a
      high
      > > > quality
      > > > > latex paint, and a Latex primer like Kilz 2.
      > > > >
      > > > > By the way, the boat is BS1088 marine mahogony, coated and
      > > > fiberglassed
      > > > > with Raka epoxy and 3.5 oz cloth.
      > > > >
      > > > > Question: Does this primer provide any build up for filling
      > small
      > > > > scratches? Is there another product I can paint on and sand
      off
      > to
      > > > fill
      > > > > small imperfections (besides epoxy/microlite filler)? Or
      does
      > the
      > > > latex
      > > > > paint fill small imperfections by itself (it is thicker than
      > some
      > > > of the
      > > > > other finishes, like LPU, etc).
      > > > >
      > > > > Any advice would be appreciated, as well as general boat/latex
      > > > painting
      > > > > tips.
      > > > >
      > > > > Thanks
      > > > >
      > > > > Glen Gibson
      > > >
      > > >
      >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > > >
      >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > > >
      > > > Message: 4
      > > > Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 22:36:51 -0800
      > > > From: "Harry W. James" <welshman@p...>
      > > > Subject: Re: Re: Sharpie Pounding
      > > >
      > > > Use plastic screen and it probably won't scrape.
      > > >
      > > > HJ
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > He has mentioned somewhere that WW I torpedo boats used a
      > > > > window screen two or three inches in front of their glass
      > > > > windscreens in order to reduce the likelihood of the glass
      being
      > > > > shattered by wave action. Screen might work to reduce sharpie
      > > > > slap. I have in mind a loose roll of plastic window screen big
      > > > > enough in diameter to reach from the bow to an inch or two
      > > > > underwater, and long enough to extend a little beyond the
      sides
      > > > > of the boat and to make a place for light cord lashings to
      hold
      > it
      > > > > in place.
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > This may scrape the bottom paint a little, but what is a good
      > > > > night's sleep worth to you?
      > > > >
      > > > > Vance
      > > > >
      > > > > Bolger rules!!!
      > > > > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead
      > horses
      > > > > - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
      > > > > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all
      you
      > like
      > > > > - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
      > Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
      > > > > - Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@y...
      > > > >
      > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > >
      > > >
      >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > > >
      >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > > >
      > > > Message: 5
      > > > Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:11:10 +0100 (BST)
      > > > From: William Samson <willsamson@y...>
      > > > Subject: An article to salivate over . . .
      > > >
      > > > Hi,
      > > >
      > > > Pleasant surprise this morning. Postman arrived with
      > > > the new Water Craft mag.
      > > >
      > > > Big article (5 pages) on Micro by Peter de Boer, with
      > > > mouth-watering pics of his gold-plater Micro. Not for
      > > > him luan underlayment - Oh no! - Genuine Bruynzeel
      > > > ply! Brass portholes, too. Fantastic finish with
      > > > more than the usual amount of brightwork.
      > > >
      > > > I wonder if this is the first Bolger boat ever to be
      > > > built out of Bruynzeel?
      > > >
      > > > Apart from the wonderful pics, there's a good honest
      > > > appraisal of how she performs.
      > > >
      > > > A 'must' for Micro enthusiasts!
      > > >
      > > > Bill Samson
      > > >
      > > > ____________________________________________________________
      > > > Do You Yahoo!?
      > > > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
      > > > or your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
      > > >
      > > >
      >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > > >
      >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      > __
      > > >
      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
      > > --
      > > To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. --
      Thomas
      > Edison
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