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Re: discussion

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  • gmatkin
    ... Frank - you are of course dead right. I ll add it to my list of Web jobs. There should certainly be links to the various forums from my main pages. Once
    Message 1 of 22 , Sep 27, 1999
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      >> As I am at this I come again to the home page for our boat design mailing
      >> list.
      >> Gavin you have your home page, why not just do the home page of the
      >mailing
      >> list on your site?


      Frank - you are of course dead right. I'll add it to my list of Web jobs.
      There should certainly be links to the various forums from my main pages.

      Once again, though, I would appeal to anyone reading this to please let me
      know of any links I should include in my list of Free Boat Design Resources
      from Around the Web. Don't keep them to yourselves, for you are not alone -
      since January, my pages have been hit by 34,000 times by people like you.

      Actuallly what has astounded me is that fact that such large numbers of
      people find their way to Free Boat Design..., despite the fact that the big
      six search engines do not seek it out readily.

      With regard to meta tags, my idea was rather basic - I went to look at one
      of the porn sites - Playboy I think it was - and simply stole the code for
      the meta tags, working on the principle that the porn industry knows more
      about being found by search engines than anyone else. I toyed briefly with
      the idea of leaving all that stuff about 'breasts, asses, pants, upskirt' in
      place, but finally replaced it with 'free, boat, design, skiff, etc etc...'
      I've also submitted the URLs to the search engines pretty comprehensively.

      Neverthleless, I'm not satisfied with the results. Enter the obvious words
      'free', 'boat' and 'design' and it's my experience that you'll see a number
      of less relevant pages before you find mine.

      Either I haven't got my tags right, or the search engines are not covering
      more than a small part of the Web. I read somewhere that the latter was the
      case. Any advice, anyone? Maybe I should just type 'butts' or something into
      Dogpile, see what turns up at the top of list, and just copy the syntax of
      the tags? I rather feel that life's a bit full for actually learning how to
      do it properly!

      Gav
    • Chuck Leinweber
      Hey guys: I hope it s not too presumptuous of me to ask for a little help. I have added a discussion page to Duckworks Magazine, and I need a little
      Message 2 of 22 , Oct 1, 1999
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        Hey guys:

        I hope it's not too presumptuous of me to ask for a little help. I have
        added a discussion page to Duckworks Magazine, and I need a little
        assistance launching it. It is not meant in any way to replace this great
        forum, but rather has a quite different purpose. I want it to be about the
        pros and cons of existing designs. Which designs are best for beginners.
        which are the prettiest, what makes one suitable for offshore work, that
        kind of thing. You guys could help, if you would, by going to the page, and
        posting a question, or making a statement, or answering someone else's
        question. You can get there by following the link below.

        If you don't have time, I understand. Thanks a bunch.

        Chuck


        Duckworks Magazine
        http://www.hilconet.com/~dworksmg
      • Frank Ellinghaus
        ... From: Chuck Leinweber To: A Boat Design Group Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 8:06 PM Subject:
        Message 3 of 22 , Oct 2, 1999
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Chuck Leinweber <duckworks@...>
          To: A Boat Design Group <boatdesign@onelist.com>
          Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 8:06 PM
          Subject: [boatdesign] discussion


          > From: "Chuck Leinweber" <duckworks@...>
          >
          > Hey guys:
          >
          > I hope it's not too presumptuous of me to ask for a little help. I have
          > added a discussion page to Duckworks Magazine, and I need a little
          > assistance launching it. It is not meant in any way to replace this great
          > forum, but rather has a quite different purpose. I want it to be about
          the
          > pros and cons of existing designs

          Congratulation Chuck. I think a forum is the logical addition to your
          Magazine.
          We can read both the boat design mailing list and your forum.

          I would even suggest, both would link the other forum together.

          I also would suggest that you give your entrance page
          http://www.portlandinsurance.com/dwbb/dwbb_toc.htm

          some better meta tags like content and keywords (there seem to be none at
          all or did I miss something).
          This along with adding this URL as extra site to the search engines could
          help also to get a little more traffic.

          As I am at this I come again to the home page for our boat design mailing
          list.
          Gavin you have your home page, why not just do the home page of the mailing
          list on your site?

          This home page can get the keywords and the description tags and can be
          found by the search engines.
          So we get some traffic here through search engine searches (and through
          Chucks link from his forum).

          There must not be much on this page, only what the list is about how to get
          to the list, perhaps the "rules", perhaps also some pictures of member
          projects.

          What do you think?


          Frank

          http://sites.netscape.net/frankellinghaus/pages_English/boatbuilding/boatbui
          ldingindex.html
        • Donald Hodges
          Sounds like a volunteer webmaster to me... Don Hodges ... From: Frank Ellinghaus To: Sent: Saturday, October 02,
          Message 4 of 22 , Oct 2, 1999
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            Sounds like a volunteer webmaster to me...

            Don Hodges
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Frank Ellinghaus <ellingh@...>
            To: <boatdesign@onelist.com>
            Sent: Saturday, October 02, 1999 12:21 PM
            Subject: Re: [boatdesign] discussion


            > From: "Frank Ellinghaus" <ellingh@...>
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Chuck Leinweber <duckworks@...>
            > To: A Boat Design Group <boatdesign@onelist.com>
            > Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 8:06 PM
            > Subject: [boatdesign] discussion
            >
            >
            > > From: "Chuck Leinweber" <duckworks@...>
            > >
            > > Hey guys:
            > >
            > > I hope it's not too presumptuous of me to ask for a little help. I have
            > > added a discussion page to Duckworks Magazine, and I need a little
            > > assistance launching it. It is not meant in any way to replace this
            great
            > > forum, but rather has a quite different purpose. I want it to be about
            > the
            > > pros and cons of existing designs
            >
            > Congratulation Chuck. I think a forum is the logical addition to your
            > Magazine.
            > We can read both the boat design mailing list and your forum.
            >
            > I would even suggest, both would link the other forum together.
            >
            > I also would suggest that you give your entrance page
            > http://www.portlandinsurance.com/dwbb/dwbb_toc.htm
            >
            > some better meta tags like content and keywords (there seem to be none at
            > all or did I miss something).
            > This along with adding this URL as extra site to the search engines could
            > help also to get a little more traffic.
            >
            > As I am at this I come again to the home page for our boat design mailing
            > list.
            > Gavin you have your home page, why not just do the home page of the
            mailing
            > list on your site?
            >
            > This home page can get the keywords and the description tags and can be
            > found by the search engines.
            > So we get some traffic here through search engine searches (and through
            > Chucks link from his forum).
            >
            > There must not be much on this page, only what the list is about how to
            get
            > to the list, perhaps the "rules", perhaps also some pictures of member
            > projects.
            >
            > What do you think?
            >
            >
            > Frank
            >
            >
            http://sites.netscape.net/frankellinghaus/pages_English/boatbuilding/boatbui
            > ldingindex.html
            >
            > >
          • Chuck Leinweber
            ... Thanks Frank. I hope it is a useful addition to the site. ... No. In fact there are few meta tags on my site at all. I tried to use them at first, but
            Message 5 of 22 , Oct 3, 1999
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              >
              > Congratulation Chuck. I think a forum is the logical addition to your
              > Magazine.
              > We can read both the boat design mailing list and your forum.

              Thanks Frank. I hope it is a useful addition to the site.

              > I would even suggest, both would link the other forum together.
              >
              > I also would suggest that you give your entrance page
              > http://www.portlandinsurance.com/dwbb/dwbb_toc.htm
              >
              > some better meta tags like content and keywords (there seem to be none at
              > all or did I miss something).

              > This along with adding this URL as extra site to the search engines could
              > help also to get a little more traffic.
              >
              No. In fact there are few meta tags on my site at all. I tried to use them
              at first, but later dropped them when the whole search engine thing became
              very confusing to me. Right now, most major search engines will turn out my
              site after any number of search criteria. I am not sure what criteria would
              be the right ones anyway. My page statistics generator says that most of my
              visitors come from links, or by direct request. Fully half of the visitors
              who use search engines search for "duckworks". I guess there is no way of
              knowing what searches were unsuccessful.

              Frank, perhaps you could suggest some specific suggestions for tags for
              Duckworks Magazine. It would help a lot.

              Thanks,

              Chuck
            • MIKE GOODWIN
              Chuck, I found that Dogpile. com and Snap.com , gave a search that lead directly to you with a Duckworks search. I ve been getting returns from folks all over
              Message 6 of 22 , Oct 3, 1999
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                Chuck,

                I found that Dogpile. com and Snap.com , gave a search that lead directly to
                you with a Duckworks search.
                I've been getting returns from folks all over that recieved a link to your
                site from me. They really liked it and most of them aren't boaters at all.
                Did anyone go to St. Michaels for the weekend ? I had to work ( video ) ,
                but the pay is very good .

                Mike


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Chuck Leinweber <duckworks@...>
                To: <boatdesign@onelist.com>
                Sent: Sunday, October 03, 1999 7:54 PM
                Subject: Re: [boatdesign] discussion


                > From: "Chuck Leinweber" <duckworks@...>
                >
                >
                > >
                > > Congratulation Chuck. I think a forum is the logical addition to your
                > > Magazine.
                > > We can read both the boat design mailing list and your forum.
                >
                > Thanks Frank. I hope it is a useful addition to the site.
                >
                > > I would even suggest, both would link the other forum together.
                > >
                > > I also would suggest that you give your entrance page
                > > http://www.portlandinsurance.com/dwbb/dwbb_toc.htm
                > >
                > > some better meta tags like content and keywords (there seem to be none
                at
                > > all or did I miss something).
                >
                > > This along with adding this URL as extra site to the search engines
                could
                > > help also to get a little more traffic.
                > >
                > No. In fact there are few meta tags on my site at all. I tried to use
                them
                > at first, but later dropped them when the whole search engine thing became
                > very confusing to me. Right now, most major search engines will turn out
                my
                > site after any number of search criteria. I am not sure what criteria
                would
                > be the right ones anyway. My page statistics generator says that most of
                my
                > visitors come from links, or by direct request. Fully half of the
                visitors
                > who use search engines search for "duckworks". I guess there is no way of
                > knowing what searches were unsuccessful.
                >
                > Frank, perhaps you could suggest some specific suggestions for tags for
                > Duckworks Magazine. It would help a lot.
                >
                > Thanks,
                >
                > Chuck
                >
                > >
              • Chuck Leinweber
                Mike: Yahoo, Google, and Alta Vista do too. Go figure. I ll bite. What happened at St. Michaels? Chuck ... to ... became ... out ... of ... of
                Message 7 of 22 , Oct 3, 1999
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                  Mike:

                  Yahoo, Google, and Alta Vista do too. Go figure.

                  I'll bite. What happened at St. Michaels?

                  Chuck

                  > From: "MIKE GOODWIN" <panmanii@...>
                  >
                  > Chuck,
                  >
                  > I found that Dogpile. com and Snap.com , gave a search that lead directly
                  to
                  > you with a Duckworks search.
                  > I've been getting returns from folks all over that recieved a link to your
                  > site from me. They really liked it and most of them aren't boaters at all.
                  > Did anyone go to St. Michaels for the weekend ? I had to work ( video ) ,
                  > but the pay is very good .
                  >
                  > Mike
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Chuck Leinweber <duckworks@...>
                  > To: <boatdesign@onelist.com>
                  > Sent: Sunday, October 03, 1999 7:54 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [boatdesign] discussion
                  >
                  >
                  > > From: "Chuck Leinweber" <duckworks@...>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Congratulation Chuck. I think a forum is the logical addition to your
                  > > > Magazine.
                  > > > We can read both the boat design mailing list and your forum.
                  > >
                  > > Thanks Frank. I hope it is a useful addition to the site.
                  > >
                  > > > I would even suggest, both would link the other forum together.
                  > > >
                  > > > I also would suggest that you give your entrance page
                  > > > http://www.portlandinsurance.com/dwbb/dwbb_toc.htm
                  > > >
                  > > > some better meta tags like content and keywords (there seem to be none
                  > at
                  > > > all or did I miss something).
                  > >
                  > > > This along with adding this URL as extra site to the search engines
                  > could
                  > > > help also to get a little more traffic.
                  > > >
                  > > No. In fact there are few meta tags on my site at all. I tried to use
                  > them
                  > > at first, but later dropped them when the whole search engine thing
                  became
                  > > very confusing to me. Right now, most major search engines will turn
                  out
                  > my
                  > > site after any number of search criteria. I am not sure what criteria
                  > would
                  > > be the right ones anyway. My page statistics generator says that most
                  of
                  > my
                  > > visitors come from links, or by direct request. Fully half of the
                  > visitors
                  > > who use search engines search for "duckworks". I guess there is no way
                  of
                  > > knowing what searches were unsuccessful.
                  > >
                  > > Frank, perhaps you could suggest some specific suggestions for tags for
                  > > Duckworks Magazine. It would help a lot.
                  > >
                  > > Thanks,
                  > >
                  > > Chuck
                  > >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > >
                • MIKE GOODWIN
                  Chuck, The Mid-Atalantic Small Craft Festival. Mike ... From: Chuck Leinweber To: Sent: Sunday, October 03,
                  Message 8 of 22 , Oct 4, 1999
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                    Chuck,

                    The Mid-Atalantic Small Craft Festival.

                    Mike


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Chuck Leinweber <duckworks@...>
                    To: <boatdesign@onelist.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, October 03, 1999 11:57 PM
                    Subject: Re: [boatdesign] discussion


                    > From: "Chuck Leinweber" <duckworks@...>
                    >
                    > Mike:
                    >
                    > Yahoo, Google, and Alta Vista do too. Go figure.
                    >
                    > I'll bite. What happened at St. Michaels?
                    >
                    > Chuck
                    >
                    > > From: "MIKE GOODWIN" <panmanii@...>
                    > >
                    > > Chuck,
                    > >
                    > > I found that Dogpile. com and Snap.com , gave a search that lead
                    directly
                    > to
                    > > you with a Duckworks search.
                    > > I've been getting returns from folks all over that recieved a link to
                    your
                    > > site from me. They really liked it and most of them aren't boaters at
                    all.
                    > > Did anyone go to St. Michaels for the weekend ? I had to work ( video )
                    ,
                    > > but the pay is very good .
                    > >
                    > > Mike
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: Chuck Leinweber <duckworks@...>
                    > > To: <boatdesign@onelist.com>
                    > > Sent: Sunday, October 03, 1999 7:54 PM
                    > > Subject: Re: [boatdesign] discussion
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > > From: "Chuck Leinweber" <duckworks@...>
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Congratulation Chuck. I think a forum is the logical addition to
                    your
                    > > > > Magazine.
                    > > > > We can read both the boat design mailing list and your forum.
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks Frank. I hope it is a useful addition to the site.
                    > > >
                    > > > > I would even suggest, both would link the other forum together.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I also would suggest that you give your entrance page
                    > > > > http://www.portlandinsurance.com/dwbb/dwbb_toc.htm
                    > > > >
                    > > > > some better meta tags like content and keywords (there seem to be
                    none
                    > > at
                    > > > > all or did I miss something).
                    > > >
                    > > > > This along with adding this URL as extra site to the search engines
                    > > could
                    > > > > help also to get a little more traffic.
                    > > > >
                    > > > No. In fact there are few meta tags on my site at all. I tried to use
                    > > them
                    > > > at first, but later dropped them when the whole search engine thing
                    > became
                    > > > very confusing to me. Right now, most major search engines will turn
                    > out
                    > > my
                    > > > site after any number of search criteria. I am not sure what criteria
                    > > would
                    > > > be the right ones anyway. My page statistics generator says that most
                    > of
                    > > my
                    > > > visitors come from links, or by direct request. Fully half of the
                    > > visitors
                    > > > who use search engines search for "duckworks". I guess there is no
                    way
                    > of
                    > > > knowing what searches were unsuccessful.
                    > > >
                    > > > Frank, perhaps you could suggest some specific suggestions for tags
                    for
                    > > > Duckworks Magazine. It would help a lot.
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks,
                    > > >
                    > > > Chuck
                    > > >
                    > > > >
                    > >
                    > > >
                    >
                    > >
                  • Frank Ellinghaus
                    ... From: Donald Hodges To: Sent: Saturday, October 02, 1999 2:37 PM Subject: Re: [boatdesign] discussion
                    Message 9 of 22 , Oct 4, 1999
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                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Donald Hodges <dhodges@...>
                      To: <boatdesign@onelist.com>
                      Sent: Saturday, October 02, 1999 2:37 PM
                      Subject: Re: [boatdesign] discussion


                      > From: "Donald Hodges" <dhodges@...>
                      >
                      > Sounds like a volunteer webmaster to me...

                      No Donald, it shouldn�t sound like that. It�s no big deal for Gavin or for
                      Chuck
                      to add some links or meta tags.

                      I wanted to point out that some more cooperation between
                      the two websites could generate more traffic for both of them
                      and that some more links and meta tags could generate it too.

                      Frank
                    • Frank Ellinghaus
                      ... From: Chuck Leinweber To: Sent: Sunday, October 03, 1999 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [boatdesign] discussion ...
                      Message 10 of 22 , Oct 4, 1999
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                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Chuck Leinweber <duckworks@...>
                        To: <boatdesign@onelist.com>
                        Sent: Sunday, October 03, 1999 7:54 PM
                        Subject: Re: [boatdesign] discussion


                        > > I would even suggest, both would link the other forum together.
                        > >
                        > > I also would suggest that you give your entrance page
                        > > http://www.portlandinsurance.com/dwbb/dwbb_toc.htm
                        > >
                        > > some better meta tags like content and keywords (there seem to be none at
                        > > all or did I miss something).
                        >
                        > > This along with adding this URL as extra site to the search engines could
                        > > help also to get a little more traffic.
                        > >
                        > No. In fact there are few meta tags on my site at all. I tried to use them
                        > at first, but later dropped them when the whole search engine thing became
                        > very confusing to me. Right now, most major search engines will turn out my
                        > site after any number of search criteria. I am not sure what criteria would
                        > be the right ones anyway. My page statistics generator says that most of my
                        > visitors come from links, or by direct request. Fully half of the visitors
                        > who use search engines search for "duckworks". I guess there is no way of
                        > knowing what searches were unsuccessful.

                        Chuck,

                        I recognize that Duckworks Magazine is a wellknown website and many like me have it
                        bookmarked and come to your site without searching for it.

                        But what happens if someone looks on searchengines for discussion pages or mailinglists
                        on boat design?
                        Does he find your discussion list? Does he find the boatdesign mailing list?

                        I would say it never hurts to get this traffic too. There are millions of people out there
                        who don�t know our mailing list or the Duckworks Magazine.
                        Some of them might be interested.
                        Why not open this door too? So let them find your billboard directly by giving them some
                        search keywords directly on the billboard page and add this page-URL to the major search engines.

                        This would be my proposal, there might be some pretty keywords left, but I realize now that I
                        could use some of the keywords for my own site too.

                        <TITLE>The Duckworks Magazine Boat design discussion billboard</TITLE>
                        <META NAME=description CONTENT="The entry page of an online billboard about boatdesign. Here you can find and discuss informations about the pros and cons of existing boat designs and boat building methods"
                        <META HTTP-EQUIV="KEYWORDS" CONTENT="boat design, boat, boats, sailing, motorboating, boat building, boat plans, cheap boat building versus "quality boat building, stitch and glue, stitch and tape, tacking and filleting, simple boat building, boat building materials, plywood, epoxy, polytarp, polytarp sail, sailing rigs">

                        Thats it for now

                        Frank

                        http://sites.netscape.net/frankellinghaus/pages_English/boatbuilding/boatbuildingindex.html

                        http://sites.netscape.net/frankellinghaus/homepage
                      • Chuck Leinweber
                        ... Mike: You east coast guys are really lucky. The only things we have on the gulf coast are deep sea fishing contests, and chili cookoffs. Chuck
                        Message 11 of 22 , Oct 4, 1999
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                          > From: "MIKE GOODWIN" <panmanii@...>
                          >
                          > Chuck,
                          >
                          > The Mid-Atalantic Small Craft Festival.
                          >
                          > Mike

                          Mike:

                          You east coast guys are really lucky. The only things we have on the gulf
                          coast are deep sea fishing contests, and chili cookoffs.

                          Chuck
                        • gmatkin
                          Thanks for the explanation, Lew! Gav
                          Message 12 of 22 , Oct 4, 1999
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                            Thanks for the explanation, Lew!

                            Gav
                          • gmatkin
                            I don t think we disagree, Frank! Gav
                            Message 13 of 22 , Oct 4, 1999
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                              I don't think we disagree, Frank!

                              Gav
                            • gmatkin
                              Thanks... I ll check that one out too, Gav Boat design pages http://home.clara.net/gmatkin/design.htm Home page and link to the band Florida
                              Message 14 of 22 , Oct 4, 1999
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                                Thanks... I'll check that one out too,

                                Gav


                                Boat design pages http://home.clara.net/gmatkin/design.htm
                                Home page and link to the band Florida
                                http://home.clara.net/gmatkin/homepage.htm
                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Frank Ellinghaus <ellingh@...>
                                To: boatdesign@onelist.com <boatdesign@onelist.com>
                                Date: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 12:43 AM
                                Subject: Re: [boatdesign] discussion


                                >From: "Frank Ellinghaus" <ellingh@...>
                                >
                                >
                                >----- Original Message -----
                                >From: gmatkin <gmatkin@...>
                                >To: <boatdesign@onelist.com>
                                >Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 2:39 AM
                                >Subject: Re: [boatdesign] discussion
                                >
                                >
                                >> From: "gmatkin" <gmatkin@...>
                                >
                                >> Neverthleless, I'm not satisfied with the results. Enter the obvious
                                words
                                >> 'free', 'boat' and 'design' and it's my experience that you'll see a
                                >number
                                >> of less relevant pages before you find mine.
                                >
                                >You have only Title and keyword tags but no description of the content.
                                >I think if you would give your page a description too your rating in the
                                >search engines
                                >would get better.
                                >
                                >Frank
                                >
                                >http://sites.netscape.net/frankellinghaus/pages_English/boatbuilding/boatbu
                                i
                                >ldingindex.html
                                >
                                >>
                                >
                              • gmatkin
                                Chuck: Thanks for the links, once again. The Wacky Lassie was new to me and will be included. I may email the chap behind it to try and persuade him to publish
                                Message 15 of 22 , Oct 4, 1999
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                                  Chuck:

                                  Thanks for the links, once again.

                                  The Wacky Lassie was new to me and will be included. I may email the chap
                                  behind it to try and persuade him to publish coordinates - or something -
                                  for the panels.

                                  cheers, Gav


                                  Boat design pages http://home.clara.net/gmatkin/design.htm
                                  Home page and link to the band Florida
                                  http://home.clara.net/gmatkin/homepage.htm
                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Chuck Leinweber <duckworks@...>
                                  To: boatdesign@onelist.com <boatdesign@onelist.com>
                                  Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 11:25 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [boatdesign] discussion


                                  >From: "Chuck Leinweber" <duckworks@...>
                                  >
                                  >Glad to hear you are taking this up, Gav. I would like to, but someone
                                  else
                                  >is doing the DM forum page, and I really don't want to tell him how. A
                                  >couple of weeks back Steve Bosquette ( I don't think he is on this group,
                                  >are you Steve? ) suggested that DM have a forum. I said that I had more
                                  >than I could do at the time. He then volunteered to set it up and run it
                                  >with graphics from my page so that it would seem to be a part of it. I put
                                  >a link on my page, and the rest is history. I am passing your suggestions
                                  >about the tags along to Steve, Frank, so hopefully they will soon be on
                                  >there. It got me to thinking about doing a website where there was some
                                  >common artwork, and navigation bars, but each section was done by a more or
                                  >less autonomous guy. It sounds appealing, but I am sure it would be a
                                  tough
                                  >go. The main appeal to me ( the mercenary ) is that some critical mass
                                  >might be reached where the traffic would generate enough revenue to
                                  actually
                                  >employ the members of the group. I'm sure this is just pie in the sky.
                                  >
                                  >By the way, Gav, do you have this one:
                                  >http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/Boats/Wacky_Lassie/Wacky_Lassie.htm does it
                                  >even qualify as free plans? Here is another possibility:
                                  >http://mims.com/maib/bolgerpirogue.jpg One more:
                                  >http://www.anyboat.com/herring/skiff.htm You might think that I have been
                                  >holding out, but honestly, Gav, It just hadn't occurred to me.
                                  >
                                  >In my indexing, I ran across one page where the guy admitted up front that
                                  >he had put some of those words (which I shall never type) in his meta tags
                                  >to generate more traffic.
                                  >
                                  >Chuck
                                  >
                                  >> Frank - you are of course dead right. I'll add it to my list of Web jobs.
                                  >> There should certainly be links to the various forums from my main pages.
                                  >>
                                  >> Once again, though, I would appeal to anyone reading this to please let
                                  me
                                  >> know of any links I should include in my list of Free Boat Design
                                  >Resources
                                  >> from Around the Web. Don't keep them to yourselves, for you are not
                                  >alone -
                                  >> since January, my pages have been hit by 34,000 times by people like you.
                                  >>
                                  >> Actuallly what has astounded me is that fact that such large numbers of
                                  >> people find their way to Free Boat Design..., despite the fact that the
                                  >big
                                  >> six search engines do not seek it out readily.
                                  >>
                                  >> With regard to meta tags, my idea was rather basic - I went to look at
                                  one
                                  >> of the porn sites - Playboy I think it was - and simply stole the code
                                  for
                                  >> the meta tags, working on the principle that the porn industry knows more
                                  >> about being found by search engines than anyone else. I toyed briefly
                                  with
                                  >> the idea of leaving all that stuff about 'breasts, asses, pants, upskirt'
                                  >in
                                  >> place, but finally replaced it with 'free, boat, design, skiff, etc
                                  >etc...'
                                  >> I've also submitted the URLs to the search engines pretty
                                  comprehensively.
                                  >>
                                  >> Neverthleless, I'm not satisfied with the results. Enter the obvious
                                  words
                                  >> 'free', 'boat' and 'design' and it's my experience that you'll see a
                                  >number
                                  >> of less relevant pages before you find mine.
                                  >>
                                  >> Either I haven't got my tags right, or the search engines are not
                                  covering
                                  >> more than a small part of the Web. I read somewhere that the latter was
                                  >the
                                  >> case. Any advice, anyone? Maybe I should just type 'butts' or something
                                  >into
                                  >> Dogpile, see what turns up at the top of list, and just copy the syntax
                                  of
                                  >> the tags? I rather feel that life's a bit full for actually learning how
                                  >to
                                  >> do it properly!
                                  >>
                                  >> Gav
                                  >>
                                  >> >
                                  >
                                  >>
                                  >
                                • Donald Hodges
                                  Frank, I didn t mean to be snide; I inferred from your post that there is a freebie webpage to accompany the list which is not active or underutilized - I was
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Oct 4, 1999
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Frank,

                                    I didn't mean to be snide; I inferred from your post that there is a
                                    freebie webpage to accompany the list which is not active or underutilized -
                                    I was serious that you or someone similarly qualified could make good use of
                                    it.

                                    Don Hodges

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Frank Ellinghaus <ellingh@...>
                                    To: <boatdesign@onelist.com>
                                    Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 7:10 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [boatdesign] discussion


                                    > From: "Frank Ellinghaus" <ellingh@...>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: Donald Hodges <dhodges@...>
                                    > To: <boatdesign@onelist.com>
                                    > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 1999 2:37 PM
                                    > Subject: Re: [boatdesign] discussion
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > > From: "Donald Hodges" <dhodges@...>
                                    > >
                                    > > Sounds like a volunteer webmaster to me...
                                    >
                                    > No Donald, it shouldn�t sound like that. It�s no big deal for Gavin or for
                                    > Chuck
                                    > to add some links or meta tags.
                                    >
                                    > I wanted to point out that some more cooperation between
                                    > the two websites could generate more traffic for both of them
                                    > and that some more links and meta tags could generate it too.
                                    >
                                    > Frank
                                    >
                                    > >
                                  • Donald Hodges
                                    Hey, there s a wooden boat festival at Mandeville LA and of course Cedar Key every May... Now, on the TEXAS Gulf coast I dunno - best I have heard from there
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Oct 4, 1999
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                                      Hey, there's a wooden boat festival at Mandeville LA and of course Cedar Key
                                      every May...
                                      Now, on the TEXAS Gulf coast I dunno - best I have heard from there is that
                                      Padre Island commissioners have outlawed neckties (last year) and socks
                                      (this year) - that's my kind of place!

                                      Don Hodges

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Chuck Leinweber <duckworks@...>
                                      To: <boatdesign@onelist.com>
                                      Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 8:22 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [boatdesign] discussion


                                      > From: "Chuck Leinweber" <duckworks@...>
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > > From: "MIKE GOODWIN" <panmanii@...>
                                      > >
                                      > > Chuck,
                                      > >
                                      > > The Mid-Atalantic Small Craft Festival.
                                      > >
                                      > > Mike
                                      >
                                      > Mike:
                                      >
                                      > You east coast guys are really lucky. The only things we have on the gulf
                                      > coast are deep sea fishing contests, and chili cookoffs.
                                      >
                                      > Chuck
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • Chuck Leinweber
                                      Glad to hear you are taking this up, Gav. I would like to, but someone else is doing the DM forum page, and I really don t want to tell him how. A couple of
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Oct 4, 1999
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                                        Glad to hear you are taking this up, Gav. I would like to, but someone else
                                        is doing the DM forum page, and I really don't want to tell him how. A
                                        couple of weeks back Steve Bosquette ( I don't think he is on this group,
                                        are you Steve? ) suggested that DM have a forum. I said that I had more
                                        than I could do at the time. He then volunteered to set it up and run it
                                        with graphics from my page so that it would seem to be a part of it. I put
                                        a link on my page, and the rest is history. I am passing your suggestions
                                        about the tags along to Steve, Frank, so hopefully they will soon be on
                                        there. It got me to thinking about doing a website where there was some
                                        common artwork, and navigation bars, but each section was done by a more or
                                        less autonomous guy. It sounds appealing, but I am sure it would be a tough
                                        go. The main appeal to me ( the mercenary ) is that some critical mass
                                        might be reached where the traffic would generate enough revenue to actually
                                        employ the members of the group. I'm sure this is just pie in the sky.

                                        By the way, Gav, do you have this one:
                                        http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/Boats/Wacky_Lassie/Wacky_Lassie.htm does it
                                        even qualify as free plans? Here is another possibility:
                                        http://mims.com/maib/bolgerpirogue.jpg One more:
                                        http://www.anyboat.com/herring/skiff.htm You might think that I have been
                                        holding out, but honestly, Gav, It just hadn't occurred to me.

                                        In my indexing, I ran across one page where the guy admitted up front that
                                        he had put some of those words (which I shall never type) in his meta tags
                                        to generate more traffic.

                                        Chuck

                                        > Frank - you are of course dead right. I'll add it to my list of Web jobs.
                                        > There should certainly be links to the various forums from my main pages.
                                        >
                                        > Once again, though, I would appeal to anyone reading this to please let me
                                        > know of any links I should include in my list of Free Boat Design
                                        Resources
                                        > from Around the Web. Don't keep them to yourselves, for you are not
                                        alone -
                                        > since January, my pages have been hit by 34,000 times by people like you.
                                        >
                                        > Actuallly what has astounded me is that fact that such large numbers of
                                        > people find their way to Free Boat Design..., despite the fact that the
                                        big
                                        > six search engines do not seek it out readily.
                                        >
                                        > With regard to meta tags, my idea was rather basic - I went to look at one
                                        > of the porn sites - Playboy I think it was - and simply stole the code for
                                        > the meta tags, working on the principle that the porn industry knows more
                                        > about being found by search engines than anyone else. I toyed briefly with
                                        > the idea of leaving all that stuff about 'breasts, asses, pants, upskirt'
                                        in
                                        > place, but finally replaced it with 'free, boat, design, skiff, etc
                                        etc...'
                                        > I've also submitted the URLs to the search engines pretty comprehensively.
                                        >
                                        > Neverthleless, I'm not satisfied with the results. Enter the obvious words
                                        > 'free', 'boat' and 'design' and it's my experience that you'll see a
                                        number
                                        > of less relevant pages before you find mine.
                                        >
                                        > Either I haven't got my tags right, or the search engines are not covering
                                        > more than a small part of the Web. I read somewhere that the latter was
                                        the
                                        > case. Any advice, anyone? Maybe I should just type 'butts' or something
                                        into
                                        > Dogpile, see what turns up at the top of list, and just copy the syntax of
                                        > the tags? I rather feel that life's a bit full for actually learning how
                                        to
                                        > do it properly!
                                        >
                                        > Gav
                                        >
                                        > >
                                      • kandlew
                                        ... Good luck... just remember that whatever they produce reflects on your good name more than on theirs...
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Oct 4, 1999
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                                          Chuck Leinweber wrote:

                                          > there. It got me to thinking about doing a website where there was some
                                          > common artwork, and navigation bars, but each section was done by a more or
                                          > less autonomous guy. It sounds appealing, but I am sure it would be a tough
                                          > go. The main appeal to me ( the mercenary ) is that some critical mass
                                          > might be reached where the traffic would generate enough revenue to actually
                                          > employ the members of the group. I'm sure this is just pie in the sky.

                                          Good luck... just remember that whatever they produce reflects
                                          on your good name more than on theirs...
                                        • kandlew
                                          ... A time-honored software approach. Usually works just as you say, ... Your tags look perfectly valid to me. What s probably happening here is that there
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Oct 4, 1999
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            gmatkin wrote:
                                            > With regard to meta tags, my idea was rather basic - I went to look at one
                                            > of the porn sites - Playboy I think it was - and simply stole the code for
                                            > the meta tags, working on the principle that the porn industry knows more
                                            > about being found by search engines than anyone else. I toyed briefly with

                                            A time-honored software approach. Usually works just as you
                                            say,

                                            > Either I haven't got my tags right, or the search engines are not covering
                                            > more than a small part of the Web. I read somewhere that the latter was the
                                            > case. Any advice, anyone? Maybe I should just type 'butts' or something into
                                            > Dogpile, see what turns up at the top of list, and just copy the syntax of
                                            > the tags? I rather feel that life's a bit full for actually learning how to
                                            > do it properly!

                                            Your tags look perfectly valid to me. What's probably happening
                                            here is that there is just too much web for the search engines
                                            to cope with these days. They often rely upon "spiders" - ie,
                                            programs which "crawl" over the web - to find & index
                                            things...but the web is so huge now that they can only cover (I
                                            read somewhere) about .25% per day of the estimated contents of
                                            the web, so it takes over a year (400 days) to cycle through the
                                            whole thing. That figure is probably optimistic, since the web
                                            keeps growing. Some of the search engines require submitted
                                            sites to be approved by a human editor, and again the load
                                            exceeds capacity by some enormous percentage.

                                            This is why sites like dogpile and metacrawler really shine -
                                            they piggyback on many many search engines, vastly increasing
                                            the odds that "somebody" has indexed the page you want.

                                            Now I ain't sayin' nuthin', but big-budget commercial firms that
                                            advertise a lot seem to be indexed really quickly.

                                            -Lew
                                          • Frank Ellinghaus
                                            ... From: gmatkin To: Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 2:39 AM Subject: Re: [boatdesign] discussion ... mailing
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Oct 4, 1999
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: gmatkin <gmatkin@...>
                                              To: <boatdesign@onelist.com>
                                              Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 2:39 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [boatdesign] discussion


                                              > From: "gmatkin" <gmatkin@...>
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > >> As I am at this I come again to the home page for our boat design
                                              mailing
                                              > >> list.
                                              > >> Gavin you have your home page, why not just do the home page of the
                                              > >mailing
                                              > >> list on your site?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Frank - you are of course dead right. I'll add it to my list of Web jobs.
                                              > There should certainly be links to the various forums from my main pages.
                                              >
                                              > Once again, though, I would appeal to anyone reading this to please let me
                                              > know of any links I should include in my list of Free Boat Design
                                              Resources
                                              > from Around the Web. Don't keep them to yourselves, for you are not
                                              alone -
                                              > since January, my pages have been hit by 34,000 times by people like you.

                                              That wasn�t exactly what i meant. :-)

                                              Sure links from your site to various forums would be good too.
                                              But what�s about a real Homepage for the boat design mailing list?

                                              <Title> The Boat Design Mailing List </Title>
                                              with description and Keywords and adding it to the search engines.

                                              Frank
                                            • Frank Ellinghaus
                                              ... From: gmatkin To: Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 2:39 AM Subject: Re: [boatdesign] discussion ... number
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Oct 4, 1999
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: gmatkin <gmatkin@...>
                                                To: <boatdesign@onelist.com>
                                                Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 2:39 AM
                                                Subject: Re: [boatdesign] discussion


                                                > From: "gmatkin" <gmatkin@...>

                                                > Neverthleless, I'm not satisfied with the results. Enter the obvious words
                                                > 'free', 'boat' and 'design' and it's my experience that you'll see a
                                                number
                                                > of less relevant pages before you find mine.

                                                You have only Title and keyword tags but no description of the content.
                                                I think if you would give your page a description too your rating in the
                                                search engines
                                                would get better.

                                                Frank

                                                http://sites.netscape.net/frankellinghaus/pages_English/boatbuilding/boatbui
                                                ldingindex.html
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