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Re: [boatdesign] Outboard sailing rig

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  • Douglas Pollard
    Hear! Hear! Bravo! Ray, and an exciting way to live your life, one that leads a person on to new adventures and new things to learn. Doug
    Message 1 of 116 , Apr 1 7:03 AM
      Hear! Hear! Bravo! Ray, and an exciting way to live your life, one
      that leads a person on to new adventures and new things to learn.
      Doug

      rhaldridge wrote:
      >
      >
      > > --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:boatdesign%40yahoogroups.com>, "nutty_boats" <nutty_boats@>
      > > wrote:
      > > ...............................................
      > > First of all, as "builtaboat" wrote, "On the one hand, if they were
      > > awesome, we would see lots of them. Since we see very few (none), maybe
      > > that is the answer right there."
      > >
      >
      > I have to admit that I don't really understand this kind of reasoning.
      > If our ancestors had felt this way, we'd probably still be paddling
      > across rivers on driftwood, because, after all, if hollow logs were
      > such a great idea, someone would have already made one..
      >
      > Let's see what Don Street has to say about the rig in _The Ocean
      > Sailing Yacht, Vol 2_:
      >
      > "Recently an unusual new rig for sailing dinghies that may be very
      > useful has come onto the market. Invented by Lauri Katailer, from
      > Finland, this rig just clamps onto the stern of the dinghy like an
      > outboard (Drawing 136). The mast, the sail (a four-sided spritsail),
      > the combination centerboard and rudder, and the bumpkin are all part
      > of a single unit, which can be fastened to any dinghy. It has been
      > tested on the small pram, the moderate-sized stemhead dinghy, and even
      > on the rubber dinghy with a wooden stern to take an outboard. The
      > numerous English yachtsmen who have tried it have all come back,
      > scratching their heads, to report that while not thoroughly efficient,
      > it does work. This rig can be stored in a box not much larger than an
      > outboard, and it can be used on any dinghy that has a fairly rigid
      > transom. With no holes to drill, no centerboard box to construct, no
      > leeboard to mount, it may be a giant step forward."
      >
      > Bear in mind that this was an early version of the idea. I can see a
      > number of advantages for a rig that is mostly outside a small boat.
      > The fact that it works at all seems miraculous to me, since it flouts
      > all the received wisdom regarding sailing rigs. If instead of
      > dismissing it, we tried to think about how it worked, we might uncover
      > a whole new direction in boat design.
      >
      > Two or three years back when I first noticed that there seemed to be
      > an unexploited niche in the microcruiser fleet, I got the same
      > reaction. "Well, Ray," folks would say, "If anyone really wanted a
      > small beach-cruising open catamaran with comfortable seating inside
      > the hulls, someone would have already designed one. Clearly, Ray, the
      > non-existence of such a design proves that it's a dumb idea."
      >
      > I expect that exasperation at this attitude was one of the things that
      > persuaded me to design and build just such a boat. Now, it may yet
      > turn out to be a disaster; I won't know until I get to sail it down
      > the bay. But if it is a disaster, I think it will be due to my
      > incompetence as a designer, and not to any flaw in the basic concept.
      > Everyone who's sat in the hulls-- everyone--- has remarked on how
      > comfortable and secure the seating feels, and how much room there
      > seems to be, for a boat just under 16 feet LOA. Lightship weight is
      > under 500 pounds, which gives me over 600 pounds of payload. The
      > hulls are quite fine-- a little better than 10 to 1 on the waterline.
      > So I'm pretty sure it can be done, though perhaps not by me.
      >
      > Anyway, my point is that we should judge new ideas on their actual
      > merits, and not resort to logical fallacies like "If it were any good,
      > there'd be more of 'em!"
      >
      > Ray
      >
      >
    • Ed Bachmann
      Re: Pictures of the Old Virginia Seaside Skiffs and Bateaux The Bateaux have been called a variety of names by boat historians. The local name was just
      Message 116 of 116 , Apr 13 2:09 PM
        Re: Pictures of the Old Virginia Seaside Skiffs and Bateaux

        The Bateaux have been called a variety of names by boat historians. The
        local name was just "bateau".

        I prefer to call them Virginia Seaside Bateaux which was what people called
        them from 1940 on but the oldest published name for them was from a Smyna
        Delaware newspaper in 1876 that described them as "a unusual boat called a
        Chincoteague Deadrise Bateau." Chapelle called them Sinepatuxent Skiffs.

        There were also Bateaux on the Chesapeake but they tended to be narrower
        with less shear.



        I replaced the pictures that I sent yesterday with some new ones that are
        easier to see.



        They show a:

        Virginia Seaside "Skiff" that was built in the 1870's

        A 1953 replica of an 1882 Virginia Seaside Skiff built by Joe Conboy (it
        paid for his first year at the University of Virginia).

        Several pictures of old Virginia Seaside Bateux dated1895 to the 1930's.

        A 1952 photo of the Conboy family in their Virginia Seaside Bateau.



        You should be able to get the Photo Album with this:

        http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/boatdesign/photos/browse/be92

        or this:

        http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/boatdesign/photos/view/be92?b=1



        An aside about Joe Conboy and Chapelle:



        Chapelle did not know about another dozen or so of these boats that were
        still aliv in Virginia whe he published the American Small Sailing Craft.



        Joe Conboy at age16 had built a small version of a Seaside Bateau that the
        old-timers at the store on Folly Creek said "wasn't bad." It was 16 foot
        overall and used a single loose footed leg-of-mtton sprit sail. He also
        painted it one of the traditional colors - a light green. Joe tells me that
        blue was never used on any of the small boats in Virginia in the old days.
        Tradition holds tha a family would often have a large Bateaux and a smaller
        one The aftmost sail of the big boat could be used on the smaller boat (the
        big boa was sometimes called "Dad's Boat").



        Chapelle found out about his errors when a young Joe Conboy wrote an
        indignant letter to him.



        Joe went on to get an Engineering Degree at UVA and worked for a number of
        years designing life-stations and other things for the US Coast Guard.



        In the 1970's, Joe went back to professional boatbuilding. He did several
        restorations for the Mariners Museum: the original English Lifeboat
        exhibited at the1876 Worlds Fair and used as the prototype for the American
        Lifesaving Service - located now in Philadelphia. He also restored
        Herreshof's "Dilemma" which is famous for its early bulb keel,



        He still restores boats.





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