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Re: New thread

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  • pvanderwaart
    ... Bon mot but mal mauvaises sciences économiques. Everyone gets richer when things get cheaper. A woodsman is richer with a cheap steel axe that holds an
    Message 1 of 29 , Mar 1, 2008
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      > Any fool knows the answer to that, after he has tried
      > to buy a bronze cleat for his boat, and compare the price
      > with that for a non-SS steel cleat - hell of a lot cheaper!
      >
      > So we in Scandinavia got rich selling bronze, and less so when
      > selling substandard steel :-(!

      Bon mot but mal mauvaises sciences économiques. Everyone gets richer
      when things get cheaper. A woodsman is richer with a cheap steel axe
      that holds an edge than with an expensive bronze or copper axe that
      doesn't.

      Peter (moderator who has been too busy to try to stifle this
      out-of-control thread, and who as dipped into it with reluctance, and
      who wonders if he has the energy to beat back the tides of amateur
      anthropology ONE MORE TIME.)
    • rhaldridge
      ... My apologies for having unwisely started the cultural evolution thread, on the presumption that as boats were the actual subject of the study in
      Message 2 of 29 , Mar 1, 2008
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        --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
        wrote:
        >

        >
        > Peter (moderator who has been too busy to try to stifle this
        > out-of-control thread, and who as dipped into it with reluctance, and
        > who wonders if he has the energy to beat back the tides of amateur
        > anthropology ONE MORE TIME.)
        >

        My apologies for having unwisely started the "cultural evolution"
        thread, on the presumption that as boats were the actual subject of
        the study in question, we might discuss how boat design evolves in
        general.

        I really should have known better.

        Ray
      • Lew Clayman
        ... Ray, you re facing two problems here: (1) The article didn t have any actual design information, just a vague description of somebody s study of change
        Message 3 of 29 , Mar 1, 2008
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          > My apologies for having unwisely started the
          > "cultural evolution" thread, on the presumption
          > that as boats were the actual subject of the
          > study in question, we might discuss how boat
          > design evolves in general.
          >
          > I really should have known better.

          Ray, you're facing two problems here:

          (1) The article didn't have any actual design
          information, just a vague description of somebody's
          study of change rates (which were not given).

          And (2) - people suck.

          -L


          ____________________________________________________________________________________
          Looking for last minute shopping deals?
          Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
        • John Welsford
          Ships in the past should only be considered in the context of thier environment, For example, the evolution of the freight carrying vessel in the Med was in
          Message 4 of 29 , Mar 1, 2008
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            Ships in the past should only be considered in the context of thier environment, For example, the evolution of the freight carrying vessel in the Med was in part driven by seasonal wind patterns so at certain times of the year " you cant get there from here" would have been true as the boats were able to reach and run but would have had very limited ability to go to windward. But then, in that context windward ability was not important. Military craft though were long and skinny, carried a lot of crew with oars and could outrun anything around in any direction but were hugely expensive and low in capacity so freight was out of the question in normal circumstances.

            If you get yourself a copy of "Working Boats of Britain' ( McKee) . it has a map with windroses early in the text. If you read the sections on each boat, refer to the map and the prevailing wind ( and by extrapolation from that map and from knowlege of the bottom and tides the sea states) some study will give very good information on how the designs peculiar to each area have evolved and why they are like they are. Another good book to study in conjunction is the "Chatham directory of Inshore Craft" . This of course is somewhat modern rather than prehistoric but its relevant and of interest.

            There are lots of examples like this, even in relatively modern times the East Coast of the USA favoured Schooners which were well suited to the prevailing winds there when Ketches were better suited to , as an example, Frances Atlantic coast and the west coast of the UK.

            Douglas Phillips -Birt wrote a very good book on the evolution of prehistoric craft that although out of print comes up in second hand bookshops from time to time.


            JohnW
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Lew Clayman
            To: boatdesign@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:31 AM
            Subject: Re: [boatdesign] Re: New thread



            > My apologies for having unwisely started the
            > "cultural evolution" thread, on the presumption
            > that as boats were the actual subject of the
            > study in question, we might discuss how boat
            > design evolves in general.
            >
            > I really should have known better.

            Ray, you're facing two problems here:

            (1) The article didn't have any actual design
            information, just a vague description of somebody's
            study of change rates (which were not given).

            And (2) - people suck.

            -L

            __________________________________________________________
            Looking for last minute shopping deals?
            Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • nutty_boats
            ... Schooners became the ship of choice for West Coast trade as well, particularly for timber hauling, but for other bulk goods as well. I had long thought
            Message 5 of 29 , Mar 1, 2008
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              --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, "John Welsford" <jwboatdesigns@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              ...
              >
              > There are lots of examples like this, even in relatively modern times the East Coast of the USA favoured Schooners which were well suited to the prevailing winds there when Ketches were better suited to , as an example, Frances Atlantic coast and the west coast of the UK.
              >
              >
              > JohnW

              Schooners became the ship of choice for West Coast trade as well, particularly for timber hauling, but for other bulk goods as well. I had long thought that that was not because schooners were the best suited as sailors, but because schooners could have small crews, often listed as "one man per mast" while square rigged ships needed more.

              Did I miss something?

              T. Lee.
            • John Welsford
              Yes, the big gaff and sprit rigged ketches common to Western Europe were sailed by very small crews as well, often two or three people. 80 / 90 ft freight
              Message 6 of 29 , Mar 1, 2008
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                Yes, the big gaff and sprit rigged ketches common to Western Europe were sailed by very small crews as well, often two or three people. 80 / 90 ft freight barges weighing up to 120 tons were sailed by a husband and wife team who lived aboard, and that included handling leeboards. The fore and aft rig had the benefit of being closer winded and able to tack in close quarters which was important in coastal work, plus did not need anywhere near the same manpower as a square rigger in these sizes but were not well suited to very heavily loaded ships on blue water freight runs.

                Here in New Zealand we had a mix of Schooner and Ketch rigged sailing freighters called Scows, flat bottomed centerboard deck carrying boats, they were the main method of transporting freight and livestock in the North of our country for about 8 decades. The Schooners were relatively uncommon as the ketch rig was felt by most skippers to better suit the environment which included a lot of windward work.

                I believe that the Schooner came to the West Coast of the USA when those using them on the East Coast came to the other side of the Island bringing the boats that they were familiar with, whereas in other areas with a much much longer history the craft had time to evolve to suit. The West Coast sailing fleet, relatively speaking, was a fairly recent development and only just got established when the steam engine drove sail off the economic routes.

                JohnW
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: nutty_boats
                To: boatdesign@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 6:54 PM
                Subject: [boatdesign] Re: New thread


                --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, "John Welsford" <jwboatdesigns@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                ...
                >
                > There are lots of examples like this, even in relatively modern times the East Coast of the USA favoured Schooners which were well suited to the prevailing winds there when Ketches were better suited to , as an example, Frances Atlantic coast and the west coast of the UK.
                >
                >
                > JohnW

                Schooners became the ship of choice for West Coast trade as well, particularly for timber hauling, but for other bulk goods as well. I had long thought that that was not because schooners were the best suited as sailors, but because schooners could have small crews, often listed as "one man per mast" while square rigged ships needed more.

                Did I miss something?

                T. Lee.





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • pvanderwaart
                ... were sailed by very small crews as well, often two or three people. 80 / 90 ft freight barges weighing up to 120 tons were sailed by a husband and wife
                Message 7 of 29 , Mar 2, 2008
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                  > Yes, the big gaff and sprit rigged ketches common to Western Europe
                  were sailed by very small crews as well, often two or three people.
                  80 / 90 ft freight barges weighing up to 120 tons were sailed by a
                  husband and wife team who lived aboard, and that included handling
                  leeboards. The fore and aft rig had the benefit of being closer
                  winded and able to tack in close quarters which was important in
                  coastal work, plus did not need anywhere near the same manpower as a
                  square rigger in these sizes but were not well suited to very heavily
                  loaded ships on blue water freight runs.
                  >

                  There is a description of a voyage in a sprit-rigged barge in one of
                  Tristan Jones' books, possibly Heart of Oak.
                • Mike Goodwin
                  ... That s the book , Tristan had a job as ship s boy on a barge transporting bricks . A hard job and Tristan was never a big lad. He quickly left and entered
                  Message 8 of 29 , Mar 2, 2008
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                    pvanderwaart wrote:
                    >
                    > There is a description of a voyage in a sprit-rigged barge in one of
                    > Tristan Jones' books, possibly Heart of Oak.
                    >

                    That's the book , Tristan had a job as ship's boy on a barge
                    transporting bricks .
                    A hard job and Tristan was never a big lad.
                    He quickly left and entered the RN .
                    We would give him a couple of pints of ale and he would love to tell
                    that story .
                    I do miss liming about with that guy .


                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • rhaldridge
                    ... It s hard to know what he actually did or didn t do. I never met the guy, though we happened to have the same literary agent, but his friends seem
                    Message 9 of 29 , Mar 2, 2008
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                      --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, Mike Goodwin <panmanii@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > That's the book , Tristan had a job as ship's boy on a barge
                      > transporting bricks .
                      > A hard job and Tristan was never a big lad.
                      > He quickly left and entered the RN .
                      > We would give him a couple of pints of ale and he would love to tell
                      > that story .
                      > I do miss liming about with that guy .
                      >

                      It's hard to know what he actually did or didn't do. I never met the
                      guy, though we happened to have the same literary agent, but his
                      friends seem fiercely loyal to him, so I'm sure he was a pretty good guy.

                      For any reader who has entertained doubts about his veracity, I
                      recommend _Wayward Sailor_ by Anthony Dalton. It's remarkable how
                      little truth can be found in the pages of Jones' books, which is a
                      shame, because even without the relentless embellishments he lived a
                      truly remarkable life.

                      Ray
                    • Mike Goodwin
                      I pity the soul that doesn t enjoy a good yarn or takes the Bible as fact . Do you believe reality TV is un-scripted and real ? It sure is boring , could
                      Message 10 of 29 , Mar 2, 2008
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                        I pity the soul that doesn't enjoy a good yarn or takes the Bible as fact .
                        Do you believe "reality TV " is un-scripted and real ? It sure is boring
                        , could stand a good dose of Tristan wit.
                        I don't know anyone who knew Tristan that did not love the guy , I do
                        know folks who met him that didn't like him , but they were assholes .
                        He would pull your leg as long and hard as he could with a twinkle in
                        his eye . He was of the old school of story tellers and yarn spinners .

                        I had a great uncle that was just like Tristan . I know for fact that he
                        had sailed around the world three times in square rig before WWI . But
                        to hear his stories that he would stretch and twist to suit his
                        audience. We would sit around the pot bellied stove while he smoked his
                        pipe , the room dancing to the oil lamps as he spun yarn after yarn ,
                        full of fact and sprinkled with the truth . He was ship wrecked off the
                        Falklands , truth , but the tale of the wreck and rescue has to be more
                        fiction . But , still a good tale .

                        If you want boring truth , read the late Wilm. F. Buckley " AirBorne" .
                        I sure it is quite factual and dry as toast ( like Buckley ) .
                        You want a good story , read my friend Tristan's work , and you can
                        believe as much or as little as you see fit .

                        rhaldridge wrote:
                        > --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, Mike Goodwin <panmanii@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >> That's the book , Tristan had a job as ship's boy on a barge
                        >> transporting bricks .
                        >> A hard job and Tristan was never a big lad.
                        >> He quickly left and entered the RN .
                        >> We would give him a couple of pints of ale and he would love to tell
                        >> that story .
                        >> I do miss liming about with that guy .
                        >>
                        >
                        > It's hard to know what he actually did or didn't do. I never met the
                        > guy, though we happened to have the same literary agent, but his
                        > friends seem fiercely loyal to him, so I'm sure he was a pretty good guy.
                        >
                        > For any reader who has entertained doubts about his veracity, I
                        > recommend _Wayward Sailor_ by Anthony Dalton. It's remarkable how
                        > little truth can be found in the pages of Jones' books, which is a
                        > shame, because even without the relentless embellishments he lived a
                        > truly remarkable life.
                        >
                        > Ray
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • pvanderwaart
                        ... One thing that I m sure is true is that he worked very hard. Once I have him a donation of some paltry amount ($15 if I remember right) for some project in
                        Message 11 of 29 , Mar 2, 2008
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                          > He was of the old school of story tellers and yarn spinners .

                          One thing that I'm sure is true is that he worked very hard. Once I
                          have him a donation of some paltry amount ($15 if I remember right)
                          for some project in Vietnam or somewhere. Months later I got a
                          hand-written letter a couple pages long asking for more. If he wrote
                          one to me, he must have written hundreds.

                          As far as I could tell from his books, he never revisited his beloved
                          Wales after he left to join the Royal Navy. WWII blew his world apart.
                          His father was killed in Asian waters, and his sister made her life in
                          Australia, I believe. A biographer of the psychoanalysis school would
                          have a hay day.
                        • rhaldridge
                          ... I wonder if there s such a thing as non-boring truth to be found anywhere. Right now I m re-reading Sopranino, by Ellam and Mudie. I m not bored. In my
                          Message 12 of 29 , Mar 2, 2008
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                            --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, Mike Goodwin <panmanii@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > If you want boring truth , read the late Wilm. F. Buckley " AirBorne" .
                            > I sure it is quite factual and dry as toast ( like Buckley ) .
                            > You want a good story , read my friend Tristan's work , and you can
                            > believe as much or as little as you see fit .
                            >

                            I wonder if there's such a thing as non-boring truth to be found
                            anywhere. Right now I'm re-reading Sopranino, by Ellam and Mudie.
                            I'm not bored. In my opinion, it's a much better book than any of
                            Tristan Jones' relentlessly self-congratulatory tall tales. Because
                            it recounts actual events, it seems far more interesting, at least to
                            me, and the quality of the writing is superior.

                            What really put me off Tristan Jones were his completely fraudulent
                            claims to have fought in WW II. He was only 16 when the war ended,
                            and didn't enlist in the Royal Navy until he was 17 and a half. My
                            father fought in the Philippines when he was only a little older than
                            that, and I fought in Vietnam. Somehow I seem to have misplaced my
                            sense of humor when it comes to false claims of combat service. Those
                            particular lies demean the sacrifices of the men who actually bled and
                            died to defend their country.

                            I guess you can call me whatever you like, for feeling that way.

                            Ray
                          • Mike Goodwin
                            That s funny, I remember signing a Birthday card for Tristan in 1984 , for his 60th birthday . That would have made him 16 in 1940 , WW2 was just warming up .
                            Message 13 of 29 , Mar 2, 2008
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                              That's funny, I remember signing a Birthday card for Tristan in 1984 ,
                              for his 60th birthday . That would have made him 16 in 1940 , WW2 was
                              just warming up .





                              rhaldridge wrote:
                              > --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, Mike Goodwin <panmanii@...> wrote:
                              >>
                              >> If you want boring truth , read the late Wilm. F. Buckley " AirBorne" .
                              >> I sure it is quite factual and dry as toast ( like Buckley ) .
                              >> You want a good story , read my friend Tristan's work , and you can
                              >> believe as much or as little as you see fit .
                              >>
                              >
                              > I wonder if there's such a thing as non-boring truth to be found
                              > anywhere. Right now I'm re-reading Sopranino, by Ellam and Mudie.
                              > I'm not bored. In my opinion, it's a much better book than any of
                              > Tristan Jones' relentlessly self-congratulatory tall tales. Because
                              > it recounts actual events, it seems far more interesting, at least to
                              > me, and the quality of the writing is superior.
                              >
                              > What really put me off Tristan Jones were his completely fraudulent
                              > claims to have fought in WW II. He was only 16 when the war ended,
                              > and didn't enlist in the Royal Navy until he was 17 and a half. My
                              > father fought in the Philippines when he was only a little older than
                              > that, and I fought in Vietnam. Somehow I seem to have misplaced my
                              > sense of humor when it comes to false claims of combat service. Those
                              > particular lies demean the sacrifices of the men who actually bled and
                              > died to defend their country.
                              >
                              > I guess you can call me whatever you like, for feeling that way.
                              >
                              > Ray
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • rhaldridge
                              ... He wasn t from Wales. He was born Arthur Jones in Lancashire in 1929, to an unwed mother. He never knew who his father was. In 1940, when he claimed to
                              Message 14 of 29 , Mar 2, 2008
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                                --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > As far as I could tell from his books, he never revisited his beloved
                                > Wales after he left to join the Royal Navy. WWII blew his world apart.
                                > His father was killed in Asian waters, and his sister made her life in
                                > Australia, I believe. A biographer of the psychoanalysis school would
                                > have a hay day.
                                >

                                He wasn't from Wales. He was born Arthur Jones in Lancashire in 1929,
                                to an unwed mother. He never knew who his father was. In 1940, when
                                he claimed to have enlisted, he was actually 11 years old. He did not
                                join the Royal Navy until he was 17 and a half, 18 months after the
                                war ended. In the 14 years of service that ensued, he spent the
                                majority of his time at shoreside installations.

                                These fabrications, and many others, were unfortunate because in later
                                years he did accomplish many amazing things, and yet failed to win the
                                respect of many of his sailing contemporaries, who had trouble taking
                                him seriously.

                                Ray
                              • rhaldridge
                                ... Did you think you were so special to him that he would not lie to you? Anthony Dalton, the author of Wayward Sailor, obtained both his birth records, and
                                Message 15 of 29 , Mar 2, 2008
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                                  --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, Mike Goodwin <panmanii@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > That's funny, I remember signing a Birthday card for Tristan in 1984 ,
                                  > for his 60th birthday . That would have made him 16 in 1940 , WW2 was
                                  > just warming up .
                                  >

                                  Did you think you were so special to him that he would not lie to you?

                                  Anthony Dalton, the author of Wayward Sailor, obtained both his birth
                                  records, and the record of his service in the Royal Navy. Arthur
                                  Jones did not join the Royal Navy until November 26, 1946, when he was
                                  17 and a half years old. Heart of Oak is a complete fabrication,
                                  based only loosely on actual events, none of which Jones participated in.

                                  Sorry.

                                  Ray
                                • Mike Goodwin
                                  And how Ray do you know this to be fact? You read it in someone s book I bet and you are quick to believe them . Hmmmm!
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Mar 2, 2008
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                                    And how Ray do you know this to be fact? You read it in someone's book I
                                    bet and you are quick to believe them .
                                    Hmmmm!

                                    rhaldridge wrote:
                                    > --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...>
                                    > wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >> As far as I could tell from his books, he never revisited his beloved
                                    >> Wales after he left to join the Royal Navy. WWII blew his world apart.
                                    >> His father was killed in Asian waters, and his sister made her life in
                                    >> Australia, I believe. A biographer of the psychoanalysis school would
                                    >> have a hay day.
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    > He wasn't from Wales. He was born Arthur Jones in Lancashire in 1929,
                                    > to an unwed mother. He never knew who his father was. In 1940, when
                                    > he claimed to have enlisted, he was actually 11 years old. He did not
                                    > join the Royal Navy until he was 17 and a half, 18 months after the
                                    > war ended. In the 14 years of service that ensued, he spent the
                                    > majority of his time at shoreside installations.
                                    >
                                    > These fabrications, and many others, were unfortunate because in later
                                    > years he did accomplish many amazing things, and yet failed to win the
                                    > respect of many of his sailing contemporaries, who had trouble taking
                                    > him seriously.
                                    >
                                    > Ray
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • rhaldridge
                                    ... book I ... You can read it yourself. It s far better documented than anything Jones ever wrote. _Wayward Sailor_ by Anthony Dalton. The book is even
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Mar 2, 2008
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                                      --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, Mike Goodwin <panmanii@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > And how Ray do you know this to be fact? You read it in someone's
                                      book I
                                      > bet and you are quick to believe them .
                                      > Hmmmm!
                                      >

                                      You can read it yourself. It's far better documented than anything
                                      Jones ever wrote.

                                      _Wayward Sailor_ by Anthony Dalton.

                                      The book is even reviewed here:

                                      http://www.tristanjones.org/dalton%20review.htm

                                      Ray
                                    • anacapa@eagle.ca
                                      OK, but my Father who ran away from home at 14 and joined the British army was fighting on the Northwest Frontier of India/Pakistan when he was 16.....I guess
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Mar 3, 2008
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                                        OK, but my Father who ran away from home at 14 and joined the British army
                                        was fighting on the Northwest Frontier of India/Pakistan when he was
                                        16.....I guess near where our Canadian troops are now...things don't
                                        change much do they.
                                        He also told me it was an impossible fight because the tribesmen would
                                        just disappear into the hills
                                        Bill



                                        That's funny, I remember signing a Birthday card for Tristan in 1984 ,
                                        > for his 60th birthday . That would have made him 16 in 1940 , WW2 was
                                        > just warming up .
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Michael Graf
                                        Amen Brother ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Mar 4, 2008
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                                          Amen Brother

                                          Mike Goodwin wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I pity the soul that doesn't enjoy a good yarn or takes the Bible as
                                          > fact .
                                          > Do you believe "reality TV " is un-scripted and real ? It sure is boring
                                          > , could stand a good dose of Tristan wit.
                                          > I don't know anyone who knew Tristan that did not love the guy , I do
                                          > know folks who met him that didn't like him , but they were assholes .
                                          > He would pull your leg as long and hard as he could with a twinkle in
                                          > his eye . He was of the old school of story tellers and yarn spinners .
                                          >
                                          > I had a great uncle that was just like Tristan . I know for fact that he
                                          > had sailed around the world three times in square rig before WWI . But
                                          > to hear his stories that he would stretch and twist to suit his
                                          > audience. We would sit around the pot bellied stove while he smoked his
                                          > pipe , the room dancing to the oil lamps as he spun yarn after yarn ,
                                          > full of fact and sprinkled with the truth . He was ship wrecked off the
                                          > Falklands , truth , but the tale of the wreck and rescue has to be more
                                          > fiction . But , still a good tale .
                                          >
                                          > If you want boring truth , read the late Wilm. F. Buckley " AirBorne" .
                                          > I sure it is quite factual and dry as toast ( like Buckley ) .
                                          > You want a good story , read my friend Tristan's work , and you can
                                          > believe as much or as little as you see fit .
                                          >
                                          > rhaldridge wrote:
                                          > > --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com
                                          > <mailto:boatdesign%40yahoogroups.com>, Mike Goodwin <panmanii@...> wrote:
                                          > >>
                                          > >> That's the book , Tristan had a job as ship's boy on a barge
                                          > >> transporting bricks .
                                          > >> A hard job and Tristan was never a big lad.
                                          > >> He quickly left and entered the RN .
                                          > >> We would give him a couple of pints of ale and he would love to tell
                                          > >> that story .
                                          > >> I do miss liming about with that guy .
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > > It's hard to know what he actually did or didn't do. I never met the
                                          > > guy, though we happened to have the same literary agent, but his
                                          > > friends seem fiercely loyal to him, so I'm sure he was a pretty good
                                          > guy.
                                          > >
                                          > > For any reader who has entertained doubts about his veracity, I
                                          > > recommend _Wayward Sailor_ by Anthony Dalton. It's remarkable how
                                          > > little truth can be found in the pages of Jones' books, which is a
                                          > > shame, because even without the relentless embellishments he lived a
                                          > > truly remarkable life.
                                          > >
                                          > > Ray
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • nutty_boats
                                          I enjoy reading history, and the Bible is the most accurate of ancient history, so there is no problem in taking it as fact. Reality TV is a interminable
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Mar 4, 2008
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                                            I enjoy reading history, and the Bible is the most accurate of ancient history, so there is no problem in taking it as fact. "Reality TV" is a interminable bore. Tristan Jones, though it is fiction, it is fun fiction. Sometimes he pushed it, but fun just the same. In many ways he was similar to Karl Friedrich Hieronymus, Freiherr von Münchhausen, in a literary genre with a long pedigree.

                                            T. Lee.

                                            --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, Michael Graf <mgraf@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Amen Brother
                                            >
                                            > Mike Goodwin wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > I pity the soul that doesn't enjoy a good yarn or takes the Bible as
                                            > > fact .
                                            > > Do you believe "reality TV " is un-scripted and real ? It sure is boring
                                            > > , could stand a good dose of Tristan wit.
                                            > > I don't know anyone who knew Tristan that did not love the guy , I do
                                            > > know folks who met him that didn't like him , but they were assholes .
                                            > > He would pull your leg as long and hard as he could with a twinkle in
                                            > > his eye . He was of the old school of story tellers and yarn spinners .
                                            > >
                                            > > I had a great uncle that was just like Tristan . I know for fact that he
                                            > > had sailed around the world three times in square rig before WWI . But
                                            > > to hear his stories that he would stretch and twist to suit his
                                            > > audience. We would sit around the pot bellied stove while he smoked his
                                            > > pipe , the room dancing to the oil lamps as he spun yarn after yarn ,
                                            > > full of fact and sprinkled with the truth . He was ship wrecked off the
                                            > > Falklands , truth , but the tale of the wreck and rescue has to be more
                                            > > fiction . But , still a good tale .
                                            > >
                                            > > If you want boring truth , read the late Wilm. F. Buckley " AirBorne" .
                                            > > I sure it is quite factual and dry as toast ( like Buckley ) .
                                            > > You want a good story , read my friend Tristan's work , and you can
                                            > > believe as much or as little as you see fit .
                                            > >
                                          • Jon & Wanda(Tink)
                                            I like opening up two layers of shale like pages in a book. The imprints of plants and animals that lived before man spoke or stood upright. Real raw history
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Mar 4, 2008
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                                              I like opening up two layers of shale like pages in a book. The
                                              imprints of plants and animals that lived before man spoke or stood
                                              upright. Real raw history waiting to tell the story. Giant Bananas in
                                              NE Oregon that would have been a fun time to boat the NW.

                                              Jon

                                              --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, "nutty_boats" <nutty_boats@...>
                                              wrote:
                                              >
                                              > I enjoy reading history, and the Bible is the most accurate of
                                              ancient history, so there is no problem in taking it as
                                              fact. "Reality TV" is a interminable bore. Tristan Jones, though it
                                              is fiction, it is fun fiction. Sometimes he pushed it, but fun just
                                              the same. In many ways he was similar to Karl Friedrich Hieronymus,
                                              Freiherr von Münchhausen, in a literary genre with a long pedigree.
                                              >
                                              > T. Lee.
                                              >
                                              > --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, Michael Graf <mgraf@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > Amen Brother
                                              > >
                                              > > Mike Goodwin wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I pity the soul that doesn't enjoy a good yarn or takes the
                                              Bible as
                                              > > > fact .
                                              > > > Do you believe "reality TV " is un-scripted and real ? It sure
                                              is boring
                                              > > > , could stand a good dose of Tristan wit.
                                              > > > I don't know anyone who knew Tristan that did not love the
                                              guy , I do
                                              > > > know folks who met him that didn't like him , but they were
                                              assholes .
                                              > > > He would pull your leg as long and hard as he could with a
                                              twinkle in
                                              > > > his eye . He was of the old school of story tellers and yarn
                                              spinners .
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I had a great uncle that was just like Tristan . I know for
                                              fact that he
                                              > > > had sailed around the world three times in square rig before
                                              WWI . But
                                              > > > to hear his stories that he would stretch and twist to suit his
                                              > > > audience. We would sit around the pot bellied stove while he
                                              smoked his
                                              > > > pipe , the room dancing to the oil lamps as he spun yarn after
                                              yarn ,
                                              > > > full of fact and sprinkled with the truth . He was ship wrecked
                                              off the
                                              > > > Falklands , truth , but the tale of the wreck and rescue has to
                                              be more
                                              > > > fiction . But , still a good tale .
                                              > > >
                                              > > > If you want boring truth , read the late Wilm. F. Buckley "
                                              AirBorne" .
                                              > > > I sure it is quite factual and dry as toast ( like Buckley ) .
                                              > > > You want a good story , read my friend Tristan's work , and you
                                              can
                                              > > > believe as much or as little as you see fit .
                                              > > >
                                              >
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