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Re: panel product

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  • Bill Hamm
    Good info, not seen that one before, lots easier than trying to lay up a flat panel yourself, sounds easy but it s not. Bill H. ... Price ... not
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 1, 2005
      Good info, not seen that one before, lots easier than trying to lay
      up a flat panel yourself, sounds easy but it's not.

      Bill H.


      > http://www.coosacomposites.com/
      >
      > I saw a story about a guy who replaced the bulkheads in his 32-foot
      > racer using this product. There might be uses for small boats.
      Price
      > is on the same level as plywood, but it's lighter. There would be
      > extra cost for resin & glass, but I think you would use polyester,
      not
      > epoxy.
      >
      > Peter
    • pvanderwaart
      http://www.nbayracing.com/bulkhead.htm This is the place where I found the original reference. You can read how they shaped the board. If the factors for
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 1, 2005
        http://www.nbayracing.com/bulkhead.htm

        This is the place where I found the original reference. You can read
        how they shaped the board. If the factors for tensile strength, etc.
        are for the foam board alone, then they don't mean much because I'm
        sure that most installations have glass laminated to them. In that
        case the straing will be taken by the layer with the greatest
        resistance to stretch (until/unless that gives enough to share the
        strain).

        Peter
      • David Lightfoot
        The wording on the site in regards applications for the various grades is either structural or semi-structural . Could it be that this stuff is designed
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 1, 2005
          The wording on the site in regards applications for the various grades is
          either "structural" or "semi-structural" . Could it be that this stuff is
          designed more for bulkheads and stringers in semi-custom fiberglass boats
          than for hulls? I'll be it is great there. But it is a bit like a
          fiberglass reinforced sponge that would deface easily against a dock or
          rock and You would have to coat the thing with an impressive amount of
          fiberglassing on the outside, wouldn't you?

          David Lightfoot

          At 12:49 PM 1/31/2005, you wrote:

          >--- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...>
          >wrote:
          >
          >"<http://www.coosacomposites.com/>http://www.coosacomposites.com/
          >Price is on the same level as plywood, but it's lighter. There would
          >be extra cost for resin & glass, but I think you would use polyester,
          >not epoxy."


          --
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          Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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        • Mike Goodwin
          ... Yeah, I ve done flat panels the easy way ( waxed tileboard) and it won t easy at all !
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 1, 2005
            > Good info, not seen that one before, lots easier than trying to lay
            > up a flat panel yourself, sounds easy but it's not.
            >
            > Bill H.
            >
            >
            Yeah,
            I've done flat panels the 'easy' way ( waxed tileboard) and it won't easy
            at all !
          • Mike Goodwin
            ... I have been in some very high end boatshops ( building multi million $$$) motorboats, and this stuff is used everywhere plywood would be used to save
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 1, 2005
              > The wording on the site in regards applications for the various grades is
              > either "structural" or "semi-structural" . Could it be that this stuff is
              > designed more for bulkheads and stringers in semi-custom fiberglass boats
              > than for hulls? I'll be it is great there. But it is a bit like a
              > fiberglass reinforced sponge that would deface easily against a dock or
              > rock and You would have to coat the thing with an impressive amount of
              > fiberglassing on the outside, wouldn't you?

              I have been in some very high end boatshops ( building multi million $$$)
              motorboats, and this stuff is used everywhere plywood would be used to save
              weight ( in order to get more speed w/less HP , so they can carry more fuel,
              to go further )[ like a dog chasing it's tail, huh? ]
              They laminate a 1/4" ply to a 3" panel and save hundreds of pounds on one
              bulkhead . I managed to pick up some offcuts from the shop and it is great
              stuff , but not easy to work with with normal tools. I made plates for my
              stanchions to mount to on my FRP deck where the old holes had worn out.
              They dont want to sell you a sheet or 2 , but 2 container loads and they
              will talk .
            • Mike Goodwin
              I have a scrap of it down on my old 1962 Pearson , I can take a photo if anyone is that interested. I think what I picked up was 1/4 . ... From: Mike
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 1, 2005
                I have a scrap of it down on my old 1962 Pearson , I can take a photo if
                anyone is that interested. I think what I picked up was 1/4" .


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Mike Goodwin" <panmanii@...>
                To: <boatdesign@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 2:08 PM
                Subject: Re: [boatdesign] Re: panel product


                >
                >
                > > The wording on the site in regards applications for the various grades
                is
                > > either "structural" or "semi-structural" . Could it be that this stuff
                is
                > > designed more for bulkheads and stringers in semi-custom fiberglass
                boats
                > > than for hulls? I'll be it is great there. But it is a bit like a
                > > fiberglass reinforced sponge that would deface easily against a dock or
                > > rock and You would have to coat the thing with an impressive amount of
                > > fiberglassing on the outside, wouldn't you?
                >
                > I have been in some very high end boatshops ( building multi million $$$)
                > motorboats, and this stuff is used everywhere plywood would be used to
                save
                > weight ( in order to get more speed w/less HP , so they can carry more
                fuel,
                > to go further )[ like a dog chasing it's tail, huh? ]
                > They laminate a 1/4" ply to a 3" panel and save hundreds of pounds on one
                > bulkhead . I managed to pick up some offcuts from the shop and it is great
                > stuff , but not easy to work with with normal tools. I made plates for my
                > stanchions to mount to on my FRP deck where the old holes had worn out.
                > They dont want to sell you a sheet or 2 , but 2 container loads and they
                > will talk .
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Paul Browne
                ... If the factors for tensile strength, etc. are for the foam board alone, then they don t mean much because I m sure that most installations have glass
                Message 7 of 15 , Feb 1, 2005
                  --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@y...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  "If the factors for tensile strength, etc. are for the foam board
                  alone, then they don't mean much because I'm sure that most
                  installations have glass laminated to them."

                  Right you basically are Peter. And the numbers are for the board
                  alone. After all, I've heard that some folks use or did use end-grain
                  balsa as a core. Still you want to know you aren't laminating to
                  something that's going to crush or absorb a lot of water or fall
                  apart.

                  Paul Browne
                • Mike Goodwin
                  ... Balsa core has been the standard for 45 years and if well maintained can still be in good condition 45 years later. It is light and very strong as a core
                  Message 8 of 15 , Feb 1, 2005
                    > >
                    > "If the factors for tensile strength, etc. are for the foam board
                    > alone, then they don't mean much because I'm sure that most
                    > installations have glass laminated to them."
                    >
                    > Right you basically are Peter. And the numbers are for the board
                    > alone. After all, I've heard that some folks use or did use end-grain
                    > balsa as a core. Still you want to know you aren't laminating to
                    > something that's going to crush or absorb a lot of water or fall
                    > apart.
                    >
                    > Paul Browne

                    Balsa core has been the standard for 45 years and if well maintained can
                    still be in good condition 45 years later. It is light and very strong as a
                    core material . The problem with balsa core is when you put a hole in it to
                    mount hardware to a deck or cabintop , you better seal it well and keep it
                    sealed or it will turn to oatmeal in 4 or 5 years.
                    I have a 1962 Pearson Ariel that has/had balsa core decks and cabintop. The
                    cabintop is still in great shape , I re-cored the entire starboard deck and
                    all the foredeck about 4 years ago . Cause, leaking fastener holes for
                    lifeline stantions , cleats, etc .
                    With newer balsa cored boats do this;
                    Let's say when mounting hardware with 1/4" screws , 1st drill a 1/2" hole
                    and fill with epoxy , when set drill the 1/4" hole in the center of that ,
                    now mount your hardware and the core will stay dry .
                    a lot of DIY boatowners didn't do it this way and ruined their boats or
                    caused great repair bills or bad surveys .
                    Balsa is a good core as long as it is maintained , same as plywood core. I
                    have seen almost as many bad ply cores as balsa cores .
                  • Bruce Hallman
                    ... Coosa told me in an email that Fisheries Supply is the west coast distributor. Their price ranges from $188 to $257 per sheet [plus shipping]. Not cheap.
                    Message 9 of 15 , Feb 1, 2005
                      > http://www.coosacomposites.com/
                      > Peter

                      Coosa told me in an email that Fisheries Supply
                      is the west coast distributor. Their price ranges
                      from $188 to $257 per sheet [plus shipping].
                      Not cheap. Coosa would sell direct, pallet loads only.
                      circa $8,000!
                    • nutty_boats
                      One of the things that attracted me to Sven Yrvind s boats was that he sheathed not for stiffness, but to protect from abrasion and puncture. Other than that,
                      Message 10 of 15 , Feb 1, 2005
                        One of the things that attracted me to Sven Yrvind's boats was that he
                        sheathed not for stiffness, but to protect from abrasion and puncture.
                        Other than that, his boats had a certain amount flexibility.

                        T. Lee.

                        --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, David Lightfoot <dlight@k...> wrote:
                        > But it is a bit like a
                        > fiberglass reinforced sponge that would deface easily against a dock or
                        > rock and You would have to coat the thing with an impressive amount of
                        > fiberglassing on the outside, wouldn't you?
                        >
                        > David Lightfoot
                      • Bill Hamm
                        Takes alot longer than 4 or 5 years, but yes it does turn to mush eventually if left exposed to moisture. The hardware on the Pearsons were bedded with
                        Message 11 of 15 , Feb 2, 2005
                          Takes alot longer than 4 or 5 years, but yes it does turn to mush
                          eventually if left exposed to moisture. The hardware on the
                          Pearsons were bedded with conventional oil based beading compound,
                          the state of the art in the 60's and I'd bet it lasted well for
                          likely 12 to 15 years before any water migration showed up. By then
                          the boats were starting to show their age and many didn't get
                          perfect maintenance, so the bedding wasn't replaced. If it had
                          been, there would be no rot in those decks today.

                          Yep, putting in epoxy plugs is better, but it's not the only way.

                          Bill H.

                          > > "If the factors for tensile strength, etc. are for the foam board
                          > > alone, then they don't mean much because I'm sure that most
                          > > installations have glass laminated to them."
                          > >
                          > > Right you basically are Peter. And the numbers are for the board
                          > > alone. After all, I've heard that some folks use or did use end-
                          grain
                          > > balsa as a core. Still you want to know you aren't laminating to
                          > > something that's going to crush or absorb a lot of water or fall
                          > > apart.
                          > >
                          > > Paul Browne
                          >
                          > Balsa core has been the standard for 45 years and if well
                          maintained can
                          > still be in good condition 45 years later. It is light and very
                          strong as a
                          > core material . The problem with balsa core is when you put a hole
                          in it to
                          > mount hardware to a deck or cabintop , you better seal it well and
                          keep it
                          > sealed or it will turn to oatmeal in 4 or 5 years.
                          > I have a 1962 Pearson Ariel that has/had balsa core decks and
                          cabintop. The
                          > cabintop is still in great shape , I re-cored the entire starboard
                          deck and
                          > all the foredeck about 4 years ago . Cause, leaking fastener holes
                          for
                          > lifeline stantions , cleats, etc .
                          > With newer balsa cored boats do this;
                          > Let's say when mounting hardware with 1/4" screws , 1st drill a
                          1/2" hole
                          > and fill with epoxy , when set drill the 1/4" hole in the center
                          of that ,
                          > now mount your hardware and the core will stay dry .
                          > a lot of DIY boatowners didn't do it this way and ruined their
                          boats or
                          > caused great repair bills or bad surveys .
                          > Balsa is a good core as long as it is maintained , same as plywood
                          core. I
                          > have seen almost as many bad ply cores as balsa cores .
                        • Paul Browne
                          ... I have a sample coming (of Coosa Composites Bluewater 26 foam board) and will report here. Well folks, I ve received the sample, and I m reporting as
                          Message 12 of 15 , Feb 7, 2005
                            --- In boatdesign@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Browne" <paul@b...> wrote:
                            >
                            "I have a sample coming (of Coosa Composites' Bluewater 26 foam
                            board) and will report here."

                            Well folks, I've received the sample, and I'm reporting as promised.
                            I'd have to say the first impression is that this board seems just
                            about perfect for boatbuilding. Recall that it's a polystyene foam,
                            reinforced with woven glass roving near the surfaces. I'd use it as
                            planking or for frames, covered with a 6 or 10 oz layer of glass and
                            resin. The surface is pretty dent proof. The 1/2" board appears to
                            be plenty stiff enough to give good curves, and yet it's more
                            flexible than plywood, so that should help. It's not soft like
                            polystyrene foam thermal insulation, not does it look like it will
                            creep like a polyethylene or polypropylene. It cuts cleanly and
                            sands very nicely. Takes wood screws end or cross grain without a
                            pilot hole and without cracking, and holds them well. I don't doubt
                            that it could be glued with epoxy, and maybe even with woodworking
                            glues.

                            Assuming Coosa is correct about water absorption, the only drawbacks
                            appear to be the price, which isn't really all that bad, and the itch
                            factor. I made the mistake of grabbing the sample with my bare
                            hands. Tiny fiberglass slivers immediately stuck into them. A pair
                            of vinyl gloves solved that, but I would guess that you'd want to
                            work under tyveks and a respirator - bummer.

                            I think you could build light, strong and very low maintenance boats
                            from the stuff.


                            Paul Browne
                            Geezer Boatworks
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