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RE: [boatdesign] Re: Second-hand bookshops

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  • Bill Jaine
    ... From: John Welsford [mailto:jwboatdesigns@xtra.co.nz] Took a bit of engineering in the mast steps though! [Bill Jaine].....no kidding! How about the last
    Message 1 of 25 , Jan 1, 2004
      -----Original Message-----
      From: John Welsford [mailto:jwboatdesigns@...]
      Took a bit of engineering in the mast steps though!
      [Bill Jaine].....no kidding!

      How about the last bit of the email about the mast bending in a blow to
      spill excess wind, is that true?


      BTW

      !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


      Bill
      Port Hope. Canada

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    • John Welsford
      In a fractionally rigged sloop or a laser style rig thats so, but in a gaffer or masthead cutter thats the last thing that you want to happen as bend in the
      Message 2 of 25 , Jan 1, 2004
        In a fractionally rigged sloop or a laser style rig thats so, but in a gaffer or masthead cutter thats the last thing that you want to happen as bend in the mast places the rig at risk. It is possible to cause it to bend forward in the midsection to flatten the main but we are getting into high risk rigs here and not the sort of thing that most cruisers like.
        John W
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Bill Jaine
        To: boatdesign@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 1:20 AM
        Subject: RE: [boatdesign] Re: Second-hand bookshops





        -----Original Message-----
        From: John Welsford [mailto:jwboatdesigns@...]
        Took a bit of engineering in the mast steps though!
        [Bill Jaine].....no kidding!

        How about the last bit of the email about the mast bending in a blow to
        spill excess wind, is that true?


        BTW

        !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


        Bill
        Port Hope. Canada

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      • Michael Casling
        I think you said you put a 32 foot mast on a 24 foot boat and applied 2000 pounds of tension to the forestay. The mast must be keel stepped in the normal
        Message 3 of 25 , Jan 1, 2004
          I think you said you put a 32 foot mast on a 24 foot boat and applied 2000 pounds of tension to the forestay. The mast must be keel stepped in the normal position cause you said it was a cutter. That is a lot of pressure on the frestay and therefor the pointy end. I only use a little over 1000 pounds on the forestay of our 32 deck stepped mast which has a backstay to oppose the force. I agree the mast does not need to twist off to spill wind as a properly shaped main can be spilled easily. I was thinking a good application for a free standing mast would be to put it a bit further forward and only use one size small jib. If the boat was big enough another mast at the back. What are your thoughts on using a freestanding mast on a boat like ours where the J is 11 foot six on a 28 foot deck. This is typical North American application common to boats of this size, not the fractional rigged long boom large main NZ style ( which I prefer ) Also the is the consideration of keel steeped rather than deck stepped and the area around the mast must be robust. Michael Casling
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: John Welsford
          To: boatdesign@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 8:08 AM
          Subject: Re: [boatdesign] Re: Second-hand bookshops


          In a fractionally rigged sloop or a laser style rig thats so, but in a gaffer or masthead cutter thats the last thing that you want to happen as bend in the mast places the rig at risk. It is possible to cause it to bend forward in the midsection to flatten the main but we are getting into high risk rigs here and not the sort of thing that most cruisers like.
          John W


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bill Jaine
          Thank You :-) Bill Port Hope. Canada ... From: John Welsford [mailto:jwboatdesigns@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 11:09 AM To:
          Message 4 of 25 , Jan 1, 2004
            Thank You :-)

            Bill
            Port Hope. Canada

            -----Original Message-----
            From: John Welsford [mailto:jwboatdesigns@...]
            Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 11:09 AM
            To: boatdesign@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [boatdesign] Re: Second-hand bookshops

            In a fractionally rigged sloop or a laser style rig thats so, but in a
            gaffer or masthead cutter thats the last thing that you want to happen
            as bend in the mast places the rig at risk. It is possible to cause it
            to bend forward in the midsection to flatten the main but we are getting
            into high risk rigs here and not the sort of thing that most cruisers
            like.
            John W
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Bill Jaine
            To: boatdesign@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 1:20 AM
            Subject: RE: [boatdesign] Re: Second-hand bookshops





            -----Original Message-----
            From: John Welsford [mailto:jwboatdesigns@...]
            Took a bit of engineering in the mast steps though!
            [Bill Jaine].....no kidding!

            How about the last bit of the email about the mast bending in a blow
            to
            spill excess wind, is that true?


            BTW

            !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


            Bill
            Port Hope. Canada

            ---
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          • Michael Casling
            It can be confusing. Some of the fastest boats ( windsurfer ) only have a main yet the 18 foot skiffs use a headsail, and I think the skiffs are the fastest
            Message 5 of 25 , Jan 1, 2004
              It can be confusing. Some of the fastest boats ( windsurfer ) only have a main yet the 18 foot skiffs use a headsail, and I think the skiffs are the fastest boats around a triangle course. They are also free to run any rig within size constraints. The front of any main behind a mast is not going to be as clean as a jib on a wyre and must be proportionately bigger. The main is so easy to use and we need several headsails on a normal boat, that is why I like big mains and small headsails, like a Holland 7.6. We should be able to built the same type of rig with an unstayed mast. Michael Casling
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Gavin Atkin
              To: boatdesign@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 1:09 AM
              Subject: Re: [boatdesign] Re: Second-hand bookshops



              So I'm doubtful about the effectiveness of headsails for any purpose other
              than giving the crew (including me) just a little more to think about.

              Gav

              ----------


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • John Welsford
              This was a gaff rigged boat, and without the running backstays which normally tension the luff I engineered it for really high tensions. Even with total 4000
              Message 6 of 25 , Jan 1, 2004
                This was a gaff rigged boat, and without the running backstays which normally tension the luff I engineered it for really high tensions. Even with total 4000 lbs tension ( forestay and staysail inner forestay) that mast only came forward about the 2inches at the top that we had designed for. Strong? Never seen anything like it!

                John
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Michael Casling
                To: boatdesign@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 5:58 AM
                Subject: Re: [boatdesign] Re: Second-hand bookshops


                I think you said you put a 32 foot mast on a 24 foot boat and applied 2000 pounds of tension to the forestay. The mast must be keel stepped in the normal position cause you said it was a cutter. That is a lot of pressure on the frestay and therefor the pointy end. I only use a little over 1000 pounds on the forestay of our 32 deck stepped mast which has a backstay to oppose the force. I agree the mast does not need to twist off to spill wind as a properly shaped main can be spilled easily. I was thinking a good application for a free standing mast would be to put it a bit further forward and only use one size small jib. If the boat was big enough another mast at the back. What are your thoughts on using a freestanding mast on a boat like ours where the J is 11 foot six on a 28 foot deck. This is typical North American application common to boats of this size, not the fractional rigged long boom large main NZ style ( which I prefer ) Also the is the consideration of keel steeped rather than deck stepped and the area around the mast must be robust. Michael Casling
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: John Welsford
                To: boatdesign@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 8:08 AM
                Subject: Re: [boatdesign] Re: Second-hand bookshops


                In a fractionally rigged sloop or a laser style rig thats so, but in a gaffer or masthead cutter thats the last thing that you want to happen as bend in the mast places the rig at risk. It is possible to cause it to bend forward in the midsection to flatten the main but we are getting into high risk rigs here and not the sort of thing that most cruisers like.
                John W


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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