Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [ ZOGAMNET ] No such free-will, Tatkhiatna upna bek tawh, Upna nangawn Pasian' letsong hi lai

Expand Messages
  • suang dal
    Ong zom to zel ning hun ka ngah leh. the sinners has his own responsibility to the call of the gospel. but the response is not the cause for salvation. Grace
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 30, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Ong zom to zel ning hun ka ngah leh.
      the sinners has his own responsibility to the call of the gospel.
      but the response is not the cause for salvation.
      Grace precedes your work.
      Kei article gelh te zong hoih tak nasim sak lo hi niteh

      Nang saan daan pen salvation by work mah ah ong tu kik zel ong tu kik zel ding hi.
      Kei saan dan pen salvation by faith alone hi. ahih hang Christian Ethics kisam.
      Christian te koi ci nuntak kampau gamtat ding cih te kisam
      A tom in gen rehang Pasian tel loh te in tatkhiatna ngah lo ding cihna



      --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Khai Boy <martinkhai@...> wrote:

      From: Khai Boy <martinkhai@...>
      Subject: Re: [ ZOGAMNET ] No such free-will, Tatkhiatna upna bek tawh, Upna nangawn Pasian' letsong hi lai
      To: blessedzomi@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, 29 September, 2009, 7:22 AM

       

      Dear, sia Suangdal
                                Na article gelh te pen zop tohtoh ding in hai vai lel hi. Nung sung teng aa coments hong ki pia teng damtak leh thukhinkhai siamna taktawh na lung ngai le teh ki cing khin zo hi. Ei mau tha tawh ki ngah/ki tan ci uh, ci aa lang lek at ta paih ding hi lo hi. Koi pan nong top hiam bel hong theih pih sam lo maw.Kua man ei tha thang han ciamna bek tawh a ki ngah hi hong ki ci lo hi.Ei lam pan zong respondence ki sam mah mah hi cih thu vive hi.
                               Thu khat ah na article at te pen Celvinism leh Reforminsm tung ki nga  aa na at vive hi in,tua te nasim khit teh hih thei ding maw, hi thei lo ding cih, nang i ngaihsut na man pen tawh na at khiat om sa keng. A hih thei taktak mah diam ci aa lungngaih lai zek ding hong thupi ding hi.
                               Ken bang bel a mau muh khiat na pen Objective truth ciang hi in Subjective truth hi lo hi a ci hi pah ing. View point tawm lua leh meditation tawm lua lai hi ding uhhi ci in a mau upna san dan na ngaih sut sak ing. U Gin Mang cih tak in bel hih dan te pawl ki kup ding aa tuat vet ding hi kei zaw sa mah ing.Ki lungsim neihna hong pian ma in ei san dan tek tawh om khinkhian tek mai leng!!!.
                             Nang ee na bang ci ngaih sut na Sia!
                               

      --- On Tue, 9/29/09, suang dal <suangdal@yahoo. com> wrote:

      From: suang dal <suangdal@yahoo. com>
      Subject: [ ZOGAMNET ] No such free-will, Tatkhiatna upna bek tawh, Upna nangawn Pasian' letsong hi lai
      To: blessedzomi@ yahoogroups. com
      Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 3:18 PM

       
       

      Tatkhiatna eimau tha tawh kingah in, eimau tha mah tawh kitaan kik thei a ci Pelegius le Arminius te' thuhilhna te Christian tangthu ah heresy ci aa a ciamtehna thute a nuai ah sim suk lecin tawmtawm in tel niteh. Ka article gelh luisa te a vekin na sim lohpi in, kacihnopna le ka gennop thute telkhial ding hiteh.

      Semi-Pelagianism a kici faith + work a cih zong heresy ci in AD 529 in Synod of Orange in na comdemned hi.

      Hi a nuai aa ka gelh thu in tawm ong mukhia sak thei bek ding hi.

      Zom to zel ni

      The bible tells us it is by Grace through faith alone. Not your work. your work is just the result of the regeneratio of the Holy Spirt. We all are spiritally dead and no good will for spiritual thing unless the Holy Spirit touches your heart, awakens your heart.

      Let us confess together with one accord

      Justification is by Grace through faith alone in Christ Jesus alone.

      I want to explain about Objective truth and subjective truth later.

       

      Augustine kua?

      B.B Warfield in Augustine peen ki puahphatna (reformation) a piang khiasak pa hi na ci hi.

       

      Augustine peen ama hun lai-in laihilh siam minthang mahmah khat hi. Bishop of Milan, Ambrose ii huzaapna hangin zong thuhilh siam minthang mahmah khat ong suak hi. A hi zongin Augustine peen nu le pa thaangtat lunggulh mawhna in mancip den hi. Bangbang ahi zongin a pianthakna peen ong tumdang vat pian hi. Kum 31 a phak a Milan huan sungah khensat nuam ki peel nuam suakta nuam mahmah ta leh a khensat zawhloh a suahtaak zawh loh mawhna ii vangliatna pan suakta nuam-a khitui luang thungen in a om laitak aww khat ong ging in "la in la sim in", "la in la sim in" kici tha pai hi. Augustine in zong tha khat thu in Lai Siangtho la in a lem leh, Romans 13:13-14 sim kha lian-a tua ni-a ki panin tua LST munin nakpi takin a nuntakna kheel in tuni dongin Chirstian te ii pupi ong suak hi. Hehpih na bekbek (Grace alone) ih cihcih peen Augustine ii defend pi le muhkhiat lian peen ahi hi.

       

      Pelagius kua?

      Amah peen Britain gam pan'n lutol nasem te khat hi. Pelagius peen AD 380-418 kiim pawl in Rome khuapi ah Lai Siangtho sangsya khat ahi hi. Mi hoih le omdan siam mahmah khat ahi hi. Hi bangdan in siangthona lam thupi sak ahih manin, zi nei lo(asceticism) peen thupit sak bel in nei hi. Sianthona ih cih peen Pasian mai ah thumaanna tawh tatkhiatna ngahna ding-a ki sam mawhpuak ahi hi ci hi. A diakdiak in tuni-a Chirstian a kici tampi tak te ii nuntaak khuasak zia tawh a ki bang mahmah Roman Christians te' a nin mahmah Christian khuasak nuntak zia (immoral life) a muhna in siangthona (holiness) a ki sapzia uang muh sak hi. Hi bangdan in Pelagius in Chirstian te genbang lo-a nuntak a kulzia (Christian must have a holy life) thu lim gen hi. Siangthon peen tatkhiatna ngahna ding in a ki sam masa bang danin ong nak gen luat ciangin mihing ngaihsutna (humanistic idea of theology) hong lut-a tua thu in a ki nial huai thu hong piang khia sak hi.

       

      Ki nialna

      Kinialna peen Augustine ii thungetna, "Grant what thou has commandest and command what thou dost desire." a cih peen Pelagius in "No obligation can ever be placed ouside man's limitless capacity for good" cih tawh a dawnna pan'n hong ki pan ahi hi.

      Ki nialna ii a laigil peen Luahsuk mawhna (original sin or the free-will) hong hi hi.Pelagius in mi khat a suak phet in a kaaingawi (neutral) suak-a, mawh ding maw siangtho ding cih teel theihna nei hi. Mihing in a ma lungtup (will) a sep ding ama tungah ki nga hi. A tom in gen rehang salvation (tatkhiatna) ngah ding leh ngah loh ding mihing' tungah khensatna ah om hi ci hi.

      Pelagius in a gen laina ah: Mihing khat a pian sialsial in Adam in singgah a nek ma mah a bang lian pah hi-a, Adam mah bangin teel theihna hun siangtho sungah om hi ci hi.

      Adam tung pan'n aa  ih luahsuk mawhna (original sin) peen nial mawk hi. A ki tukalh Pelagius sanzia khat luahsuk mawhna umlo na pi-in naungek tuiphum saang se citciat hi.

      Mihing peen a mah le mah a mawhna paan suakta thei hi cih um hi. Pasian in ong huh ta zongin vangliatna (the power) peen ei sungah om hi ci hi.

       

      Augustine dawnna

      Augustine in luahsuk mawhna peen Adam pan in mi kim kua mah peng lo hi cih hi. Ih Pu Adam sungah ihvek pi in tua luahsuk mawhna hong ki patna bulpi ah a mawh khawm khin ih hi hi ci hi.

      Free-will tawh ki sai in Augustine in hi bangin gen hi.Adam peen mawh thei mawh lo thei hun sung (Adam was in the state of able to sin and able not to sin) ah a om masa peen pa hi-a, ahi zongin amah ong khialh khitteh a ma suan le khak minam khempeuh mawh loh ding hi thei nawn lo hi (not able not to sin).

      Mawhna bawl ding cih sim loh mihing ii lungtup zuih theihna (free-will) in sep theih khat zong nei nawn lo hi. Free-will nei ingh a ci a om leh tua a free-will peen ama aa hi lo-in Kha Siangtho piak hi bek hi (Rom.5:5 Eph. 2: 8,9; Rom 4: 4) te sim kawn rehang...

      AD 431-a Ephesus khua-a Christian khawmpi in Pelagius thuhilhna paikhia hi. The general council of Ephesus in 431 officially codemned the teachings of Pelagius. A Laklawh-Pelagianism cih (semi-Pelagianism)  in zong Pasian hehpihna (Grace) peen nial theih san theih hi. Tatkhiatna peen mihing khatciat tungah ki nga zawin Pasian tungah ki nga lo hi ci ahih manin 529 in Synod of Orange in tua semi-Pelagianism hilhna condemned leuleu hi.. Pawlpi in ahih leh Pasian thu neihna le a khawnkhong hehpihna bek mah pomto suak den in, mihing sepna tawh tatkhiatn kingah lo hi ci hi. The Church contended for God's sovereign of free grace, not man's free-will to choose.

       

      Theih dingah:

      Religion le Christianity peen ki bang lo hi.

      Religion ih cih peen man way of seeking God. Mihing te' ut zia lumkim zia le tup tawmtawh Pasian zonna hi-a, Christianity ih cih peen God way of seeking sinners ahi hi. Christianity ih cih peen Pasian mahmah in a tapa Khrih tungtawn-a mawhnei mi (Jews and Gentiles a kibang) ong zong tawm in ong tatkhia cihna ahi hi.

      Leitungah Pasian a zong khat zong omlo-a Pasian' ong zonsa vive ih hi. Pasian a zong zaw deuh aa ki nei te peen Pasian tel mite bek mah hi pah hi. Hun masa lam in ahih leh bel Pasian tel minam Israel te bek mah in Pasian na zong tei-a ahi zongin ih Topa Jesuh hun zawh ahih leh bel, Gentile te zong lungdamnathu (the gospel) in hong zong ta hi. Lungdam huai maw.

       

      Suang Dal

      Zozaang Khua

      Tawmvei

      Manila



      Open emails faster.
      Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade your browser to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimized for Yahoo!.Get it here! (It's free)



      How many ways can you cook Adobo?
      Find out all of them on Yahoo! Answers.
    • suang dal
      Dear Sya Mang, Pasian in mihing bawl. hu muam. Pasian mah in mawhnei te kisik kik theihna ding LST Pasian kamma zang. Pasian, Pasian, Pasian masa den. God
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 30, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Sya Mang,
        Pasian in mihing bawl. hu muam. Pasian mah in mawhnei te kisik kik theihna ding LST Pasian' kamma zang. Pasian, Pasian, Pasian masa den. God always that the initiative.
        Tua Pasian thu gen te in ei hong tel uh hi lo. Pasian kammal a kizak ciangaa mawhna kisikna piang thei bek. Pasian Kammal the gospel in mimawh te zong hi. Pasian Pasian Pasian in tel... Nang hi lo. Pasian kammal in ong mu khia...Pasian' kammal ih zak ciang upna pen sepna tawh ngah na kici lo. Hehpihna kici zaw

        Kha Siangtho in a lawn mi lo buang in tel thei lo. tel thei ngei lo. Tua man aa lungdamna thu le Kha Siangtho kisam hi hang. Mi khat in a up teh, a dang mimawh te sang hoih zawkna a neihna hang hi peuh mah lo. A hoih lo pi mah aa Pasian telna pen hehpihna hi.
        Pasian in a taktak aa ih vekpi aa, hong tatkhiat a kul nawn lo lel hi hang. A kibang gai ih hi hi. A hi zongin Pasian in hehpihna a neihna pen taza lo fair lo cih theihna ding thu om lo hi.





        --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Thang Mang <siansiam227@...> wrote:

        From: Thang Mang <siansiam227@...>
        Subject: Re: [ ZOGAMNET ] No such free-will, Tatkhiatna upna bek tawh, Upna nangawn Pasian' letsong hi lai
        To: blessedzomi@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, 29 September, 2009, 6:42 AM

         

        Kong zahtak  Sia Suang Dal,
         
        Thu khat hong dong nuam ingh. Ei mihing te in bang mah ki mutel zo lo, thei tel zo lo hang aa tua ban ah ahoih leh hoih lo na leng a tel theih zo te ih hi kei hi. A hi zong in tel ding thunih hong om ciang ahoih zaw lampi hong hilh ding ei sang a theizaw amu zaw huhna ih ki sam hi. Tua hun tak ciang in Holy Spirit huhna ( kha lam ah) ei sang thei zaw mi (thu khat peuhpeuh) te huhna hang in ih theih loh thu thei in ahoih zaw ih tel tak ciang in hong hilh te tel hi ci ding ih hiam ei ma tel hi ki ci zaw ding hiam?
         
        Gupkhiatna ih ngah theih na ding mihing lam pan beem ( zero) hi.Tua ahih man in Pasian Grace hehpih khualna tawh lampi maan hong lak in ih tel zawh/ theih na ding Holy Spirit in tha leh pilna hong guan hi. Tua pen mihing te tel  maw Pasian tel hiam? Mihing ten ih tel hi ci leng ih khial ding hiam? Tua pen Laisiangtho in hehpihna / Grace acih den keei pen hi lo ahiam?
        thu thei nuam ,
        Mangpi,
        tawmvei Miami
        --- On Tue, 9/29/09, suang dal <suangdal@yahoo. com> wrote:

        From: suang dal <suangdal@yahoo. com>
        Subject: [ ZOGAMNET ] No such free-will, Tatkhiatna upna bek tawh, Upna nangawn Pasian' letsong hi lai
        To: blessedzomi@ yahoogroups. com
        Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 3:18 AM

         
         

        Tatkhiatna eimau tha tawh kingah in, eimau tha mah tawh kitaan kik thei a ci Pelegius le Arminius te' thuhilhna te Christian tangthu ah heresy ci aa a ciamtehna thute a nuai ah sim suk lecin tawmtawm in tel niteh. Ka article gelh luisa te a vekin na sim lohpi in, kacihnopna le ka gennop thute telkhial ding hiteh.

        Semi-Pelagianism a kici faith + work a cih zong heresy ci in AD 529 in Synod of Orange in na comdemned hi.

        Hi a nuai aa ka gelh thu in tawm ong mukhia sak thei bek ding hi.

        Zom to zel ni

        The bible tells us it is by Grace through faith alone. Not your work. your work is just the result of the regeneratio of the Holy Spirt. We all are spiritally dead and no good will for spiritual thing unless the Holy Spirit touches your heart, awakens your heart.

        Let us confess together with one accord

        Justification is by Grace through faith alone in Christ Jesus alone.

        I want to explain about Objective truth and subjective truth later.

         

        Augustine kua?

        B.B Warfield in Augustine peen ki puahphatna (reformation) a piang khiasak pa hi na ci hi.

         

        Augustine peen ama hun lai-in laihilh siam minthang mahmah khat hi. Bishop of Milan, Ambrose ii huzaapna hangin zong thuhilh siam minthang mahmah khat ong suak hi. A hi zongin Augustine peen nu le pa thaangtat lunggulh mawhna in mancip den hi. Bangbang ahi zongin a pianthakna peen ong tumdang vat pian hi. Kum 31 a phak a Milan huan sungah khensat nuam ki peel nuam suakta nuam mahmah ta leh a khensat zawhloh a suahtaak zawh loh mawhna ii vangliatna pan suakta nuam-a khitui luang thungen in a om laitak aww khat ong ging in "la in la sim in", "la in la sim in" kici tha pai hi. Augustine in zong tha khat thu in Lai Siangtho la in a lem leh, Romans 13:13-14 sim kha lian-a tua ni-a ki panin tua LST munin nakpi takin a nuntakna kheel in tuni dongin Chirstian te ii pupi ong suak hi. Hehpih na bekbek (Grace alone) ih cihcih peen Augustine ii defend pi le muhkhiat lian peen ahi hi.

         

        Pelagius kua?

        Amah peen Britain gam pan'n lutol nasem te khat hi. Pelagius peen AD 380-418 kiim pawl in Rome khuapi ah Lai Siangtho sangsya khat ahi hi. Mi hoih le omdan siam mahmah khat ahi hi. Hi bangdan in siangthona lam thupi sak ahih manin, zi nei lo(asceticism) peen thupit sak bel in nei hi. Sianthona ih cih peen Pasian mai ah thumaanna tawh tatkhiatna ngahna ding-a ki sam mawhpuak ahi hi ci hi. A diakdiak in tuni-a Chirstian a kici tampi tak te ii nuntaak khuasak zia tawh a ki bang mahmah Roman Christians te' a nin mahmah Christian khuasak nuntak zia (immoral life) a muhna in siangthona (holiness) a ki sapzia uang muh sak hi. Hi bangdan in Pelagius in Chirstian te genbang lo-a nuntak a kulzia (Christian must have a holy life) thu lim gen hi. Siangthon peen tatkhiatna ngahna ding in a ki sam masa bang danin ong nak gen luat ciangin mihing ngaihsutna (humanistic idea of theology) hong lut-a tua thu in a ki nial huai thu hong piang khia sak hi.

         

        Ki nialna

        Kinialna peen Augustine ii thungetna, "Grant what thou has commandest and command what thou dost desire." a cih peen Pelagius in "No obligation can ever be placed ouside man's limitless capacity for good" cih tawh a dawnna pan'n hong ki pan ahi hi.

        Ki nialna ii a laigil peen Luahsuk mawhna (original sin or the free-will) hong hi hi.Pelagius in mi khat a suak phet in a kaaingawi (neutral) suak-a, mawh ding maw siangtho ding cih teel theihna nei hi. Mihing in a ma lungtup (will) a sep ding ama tungah ki nga hi. A tom in gen rehang salvation (tatkhiatna) ngah ding leh ngah loh ding mihing' tungah khensatna ah om hi ci hi.

        Pelagius in a gen laina ah: Mihing khat a pian sialsial in Adam in singgah a nek ma mah a bang lian pah hi-a, Adam mah bangin teel theihna hun siangtho sungah om hi ci hi.

        Adam tung pan'n aa  ih luahsuk mawhna (original sin) peen nial mawk hi. A ki tukalh Pelagius sanzia khat luahsuk mawhna umlo na pi-in naungek tuiphum saang se citciat hi.

        Mihing peen a mah le mah a mawhna paan suakta thei hi cih um hi. Pasian in ong huh ta zongin vangliatna (the power) peen ei sungah om hi ci hi.

         

        Augustine dawnna

        Augustine in luahsuk mawhna peen Adam pan in mi kim kua mah peng lo hi cih hi. Ih Pu Adam sungah ihvek pi in tua luahsuk mawhna hong ki patna bulpi ah a mawh khawm khin ih hi hi ci hi.

        Free-will tawh ki sai in Augustine in hi bangin gen hi.Adam peen mawh thei mawh lo thei hun sung (Adam was in the state of able to sin and able not to sin) ah a om masa peen pa hi-a, ahi zongin amah ong khialh khitteh a ma suan le khak minam khempeuh mawh loh ding hi thei nawn lo hi (not able not to sin).

        Mawhna bawl ding cih sim loh mihing ii lungtup zuih theihna (free-will) in sep theih khat zong nei nawn lo hi. Free-will nei ingh a ci a om leh tua a free-will peen ama aa hi lo-in Kha Siangtho piak hi bek hi (Rom.5:5 Eph. 2: 8,9; Rom 4: 4) te sim kawn rehang...

        AD 431-a Ephesus khua-a Christian khawmpi in Pelagius thuhilhna paikhia hi. The general council of Ephesus in 431 officially codemned the teachings of Pelagius. A Laklawh-Pelagianism cih (semi-Pelagianism)  in zong Pasian hehpihna (Grace) peen nial theih san theih hi. Tatkhiatna peen mihing khatciat tungah ki nga zawin Pasian tungah ki nga lo hi ci ahih manin 529 in Synod of Orange in tua semi-Pelagianism hilhna condemned leuleu hi.. Pawlpi in ahih leh Pasian thu neihna le a khawnkhong hehpihna bek mah pomto suak den in, mihing sepna tawh tatkhiatn kingah lo hi ci hi. The Church contended for God's sovereign of free grace, not man's free-will to choose.

         

        Theih dingah:

        Religion le Christianity peen ki bang lo hi.

        Religion ih cih peen man way of seeking God. Mihing te' ut zia lumkim zia le tup tawmtawh Pasian zonna hi-a, Christianity ih cih peen God way of seeking sinners ahi hi. Christianity ih cih peen Pasian mahmah in a tapa Khrih tungtawn-a mawhnei mi (Jews and Gentiles a kibang) ong zong tawm in ong tatkhia cihna ahi hi.

        Leitungah Pasian a zong khat zong omlo-a Pasian' ong zonsa vive ih hi. Pasian a zong zaw deuh aa ki nei te peen Pasian tel mite bek mah hi pah hi. Hun masa lam in ahih leh bel Pasian tel minam Israel te bek mah in Pasian na zong tei-a ahi zongin ih Topa Jesuh hun zawh ahih leh bel, Gentile te zong lungdamnathu (the gospel) in hong zong ta hi. Lungdam huai maw.

         

        Suang Dal

        Zozaang Khua

        Tawmvei

        Manila



        Open emails faster.
        Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade your browser to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimized for Yahoo!.Get it here! (It's free)



        Have a new Yahoo! Mail account?
        Kick start your journey by importing all your contacts!
      • suang dal
        Tu-hun Evangelical pawl khat te le Roman Catholic te Sankhopdaan Tatkhiatna Pom Zia The Gift of Salvation in the ECT II Statement Thumasa A beisa (History)
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 1, 2009
        • 0 Attachment

          Tu-hun Evangelical pawl khat te le Roman Catholic te' Sankhopdaan Tatkhiatna Pom Zia


          "The Gift of Salvation" in the ECT II Statement

          Thumasa
          A beisa (History) sung ih et kikkik ciangh, RC te le Evangelical te in ki lamdaanna tampi nei hi cih ki mu thei hi. Ahih hang tu hun Evangelical pawlkhatte pen RCC tawh kipawl khop theihna ding ci in a up a saansa uh thu pen hah let nawn lo uh hi. Bangbang hi ta leh, Evangelical taktak ahi laite in bel tu ni dong mah in "Tatkhiatna ih cih pen Hehpihna tungtawn aa Upna bek mah tawh a ki ngah hi-a, tua pen Pasian  kammal ahi LST gen Khazih ii khatvei sep a tawntung aa ki mang suak Christ finished work alone,  and the Bible alone is the word of God cih mah hi ngitnget hi. Hi peen Reformers te ii Evangelical taktak ahihna uh a ki ciansak mahmah ciaptehna khat ahi hi. RC in hih doctrine peen saang khin lo hi. Hun le ni te hong ki daang hiaihiaina tawh ki zui-in, WCC te gen loh Evangelical te' sung mahmah ah zong kipawl khawm aa sepkhopna (Convergence and Cooperation) a thupi sak pha diak pawl te pen Roman Catholic lam ah hong kivial kik ta uh hi. ECT a khiatna in Evangelical te le Roman Catholic te kipawl khopna cihna hi. Evangelical Catholic together cihna hi.

          A Thu nung
          1994 kum May kha in, hih a ki banglo RC le Evangelical Protestants te in ki kupna thusuah khat nei uh-a tua pen "Evangelical and Catholic Together" cih ahi hi. Ki bat lohna tampi kawmkaal mah ah hih title mitsuan kawmin hong kalsuan toto uh hi. Tua bangin hih the first ECT statement pen on Tuesday, March 29, 1994 ni-in New York ah ki released ki suakkhia sak hi. 1996 leuleu ciangin hih ECT kipawlna in Tatkhiatna tawh kisai (the doctrine of Justification by faith alone) thu ah kilim kup bel-in hong nei ta uh hi. Hun tampi la-in hih tatkhiatna thu hong ki kup zawh uh ban ah kum 1997 October kha 6-7 ni in New York ah ki  muhkhopna pi khat hong nei kik uh hi. Tua zawh diak November kha 12, 1997 ni-in thusuah (released) nihna hong nei kik pah uh hi. December 8, 1997 ni-in tuni Christian te'n ih muh theih dingin laibu in a kipawl a thu upna uh hong bawl hong published khia uh hi. Hih Ecumenical (ECT) madawk nasep pen Charles Colson (Southern Baptist) le Richard John Neuhaus (a Roman Catholic) te' huzaap influenced hang ahi hi.

          Tatkhiatna tawh Kisai a Thusuah uh
          "We affirm together that we are justified by grace through faith because of Christ. Living faith is active in love that is nothing less than the love of Christ". Tatkhiatna pen hehpihna tungtawn aa Jesuh sungah upna tawh hi cih ih kipsak hi. A nungta upna in itna ah kilang-a, tua itna in Khazih ong itna sangin neu zaw lo hi cih thu ahi hi."

          "We agree that Justification is not earned by any good works or merits of our own; it is entirely God's gift, conferred through the Father's sheer graciousness, out of the love that he bears us in his Son, who suffered on our behalf and rose from the dead for our justification. Jesus was put to death for our trespasses and raised for our justification (Romans 4: 25). In justification, God, on the basis of Christ' righteousness alone, declares us to be no longer his rebellious enemies but his friends, and by virtue of his declaration it is so."
          "Tatkhiatna ih cih pen ei te ii hoihna le sep zawhna tawh ki ngah lo hi cih ih thukim hi. Hi pen Pasian' letsong hi. Pa ong hehpihna hang tawh hong ki ap ahi hi. A hong itna hangin a Tapa ong pia-a, tua Tapa in eite' tatkhiatna ngahna dingin ong si hi. Jesuh pen eite' mawh baanna hangin ong si aa, a hi zongin eite' tatkhiatna ngahna a ki latna in thokik hi (Romans 4: 25). Pasian in Khazih ii thumaanna le diktatzawhna a bulphuhna hang bekin eite a lehdo gal te ih hi nawn kei-a, Amah in mawh hong maisak a lawmte ih hihna amah mah ii tangkona tungtawn in a kip hi pah hi" cih thu te ahi hi.

          A Maan na uh le a Khialhna uh
          1. A tung aa "We affirm together that we are justified by grace through faith because of Christ" "Tatkhiatna pen hehpihna tungtawn aa Jesuh sungah upna tawh hi" a cihna lai gual ah Evangelical masa te upna ahi "alone" or "bek" cih kammal pen ki hem khia ta hi. By faith Alone pan'n by faith bek hong hi ta hi. Kammal Alone pen pai khia hi. Dawimangpa' nasep kiukiau ih cihcih hi kiukiau te hi...Su kekkek a cih hi dante ai ve leh!

          2. "Living faith is active in love..." "A nungta itna in itna nasepna ah kilang hi" cihna ah tatkhiatna pen sepna tawh hi a ci nuam ahih na ki lang kik zel hi. A Kel lu phum uh ki dawk zel hi.
          A mau upzia pen faith+love hi-a love pen to love is to work a hih manin, faith+work mah hong suak veve hi. Hi faith + work pen RC te ii a kikhel ngei lo thu pomzia hi-a, tuiphum hi ing na cih lanlan hangin faith + work na cih leh RC na hi gige lel hi. Na protestant upna a thei nai lo na hi hi. RC na hih vet leh bel na upna hi lel ahih manin bangmah a phamawh hi lo hi. A hing zong Protestant te ahi Tuiphum, Evangelical khawng na hih leh RC tawh na upna a kilamdangna pen by faith alone cih thu ahi hi. Faith + work pen RC thupomzia hi-a, Faith Alone pen Protestant Tuiphum Evangelical upna hi.

          Sepna  a suang pawlpi te sungah zu huan khuan kipia hi. Upna a suang pawlpi te sungah zu huan khuan kipia lo hi cih khawng zong kimu khia kiaukiau thei hi.


          [Catholicism East of Eden--Richard Bennett] laibu in hi bangin ci hi, "Church of Rome RC pawlpi pen a tawntungin a nungta upna cih concept ah ciah kik denden hi. A nungta upna a cih uh ciangin sepna tuntawn aa diktanna ngahna (works righteousness" a gen nuam uh hi-a, a diakdiakin a sacraments te uh a gen nuam ahi hi. Tua ahih manin RC sungah hih Sacraments ahi, mawhsutna cihte tatkhiatna ih ngah theihna dingin a kisam masa hi cih hong suak zel hi.

          Reformed position is that faith has no merit of its own...it is to be distinguished from love..."
          Faith initiates reason. God Grace always takes the initiation. The means and the sacraments are important but God's Grace is not from the means or of from the Sacraments. It is directly from God Himself! cih daan ahi hi.

          Theih dingah: RC te in itna a cihteh upna ii a ki helpih (love as the component of faith) in a gen nuam uh ahi hi. Lungdamna thu ii a gen ahih leh itna neih zawhna hang aa tatkhiatna ki ngah hi lo-a, Pasian ong sep sak tungah kinga liuleu aa muanna cih thu na hi zaw hi. Trusting to God.

          3. "We agree that justification.  ...is conferred [rather than imputed] a cihna vuah RC te'n hehpihna pen mawhsutna nam giat te tungtawn aa ki ngah hi cih thu hilh uh hi. A Catechism te vuah kician takin suak sak uh hi. Tatkhiatna pen a tui thehna uh Baptism pan’n ki kipsakin kingah bek hi cih daan. "Justification is conferred in Baptism..."

          ECT te' LST Muhkhialhna te Etkikna

          Khatna ah:
          Paul in Romans 4na sung aa a gen LST kammal "imputation" (biblical langugage of imputation) pen nial uh hi kici thei hi. Infusion daan in saang zaw uh cih ding hi.
          LST kammal zatzia te ut bangbangin ki laih thei lo hi napi'n amau laih uh hi. Gentehna in imputation of righteousness ding pen amau infusion of righteousness cih upna tawh sang zaw uh hi.

          Imputation of righteousness cih teh, Khazih hang-a eite midik tang cihna hi. Midik ki suak lo in midik ki tang bek hi. It is a righteousness that is "outside of" or "apart from" us that is imputed to us. This imputing righteousness does not actually make the sinner righteous by a righteous infused. Jesuh dikna tawh hong ki tuam bek hi-a, mawhnei mi peen mawh nei mi mah hi lai aa, zing ciang zong mawhna le khialhna bawl lai ding hi. Banghang hiam cih leh tua mi pa pen tua mi pa mah hi lai-a, Jesuh a suak hi zenzen lo hi. Jesuh hangin, in the name of hi bek hi.
          Perfect righteousness/ holiness cannot be attained here on earth but it can be pursued.
          Kicinna (perfection) cih pen hi leitungah ki ngah ngei lo ding-aa ahi zongin Jesuh kicinna puan tawh a ki tuam (a ki imputed) mi in tua ki cinna ahi sianthona thumaanna te a ngah ma teng delh tawntung ding hi. Tua bang pen Christian pianzia ahi hi. Imputation of righteousness cihteh pualam pan aa diktan na hi-in, Infusion/infused cihteh, sunglam pan aa diktanna cihna hi-a, eimau le eimau a dik ding aa gamtat zawh na tawh tatkhiatna ngah kul cihna hi. Infused cih tehh Jesuh hoihna le dikna pen thu-um mipa sungah kilawh suk in tua nu tua pa Jesuh bang lian suak ahih manin, tua Jesuh bang lian aa genbaanna a neih loh ni aa kipan a puk kik a mawh kik leh a tatkhiatna taan kik ding hi cih daan hi. Jeremiah 17: 9na ah zong “Lungsim in na khempeuh lakah a khem hat pen hi a, a kisia pha mahmah ahi hi…The heart is deceitful above all…” na ci hi ven. A pua lam pan aa hoihna tawh hong kituam kei leh ih sung lam pan a hoih tawm zo lo te ih hi hi. Tua leh nang a sung lam pan dikna ngah maw? A pua lam panin dikna ngah na hiam? ki ngaihsun pak in...Imputation is a legal term, something put to the credit or account of...2Cor. 5: 21.

          Infusion of righteousness cih teh eimau mahmah Khazih tatkhiatna ngah ih ki ciat ni ih pian thak ni aa ki panin midik ki suak ahih manin (Khazih ii kicingtaak dikna perfect righteousness pen eite sungah hong ki infused hong kilawh suk ahih manin midik ih suak hi. Eimau mahmah kutaai midik ih suah ni aa ki pan ih ki kep zawh kei leh, eimau tavuan hi ta ahih manin tatkhiatna ki tan kik thei cih daan hi. Hi thu tawh kisai Romans 7: 14-25 siksan in hun ih ngah tehh kikup kik dingin koih phot ni.
          [The Gift of Salvation: A Camouflage for Catholicism- -Richard Bennett] kici laibu ah, "The biblical teaching of the righteousness of God is imputed to the believer is subsumed under the Roman's traditional concept of inner or infused righteousness. " ci-in na gelh hiau hi...

          4."...and by virtue of his (God's) declaration it [justification] is so".
          Hih a lina pen RC te Newman's doctrine hi-a, a cihnopna hi bang ahi hi. The creation and justification are exactly alike, when God justifies a person He commanded, "Let this man be righteous" as in the creation..." Let there be light".  Piansakna le Diktansakna/ tatkhiatna pen a ki bang lian ahi hi. Pasian in mi khat a tatkhiat ciangh, thu pia-a, "hi mipa midik suak hen" ci in midik a suak pah hi. Bang tawh ki bang hiam cih leh, piansak hun lai aa Pasian in, "khuavaak om hen" a cih leh khuavaak a om pah tawh a ki bang ahi hi ci hi.

          Ih theih dingah Newman ii gen daanin Pasian in mawhnei mi khat piansak lai hun bangin command thupiakna tawh diktanna ahi tatkhiatna ngahsak thei ahih leh tua tatkhiatna kitaan kik thei hi a cih thu tawh kileh bulh leuleu hi. A taktakin ama cih bangin thupiakna tawh mi khat a mawhna pan tatkhiatna a kingah sak khit tehh Topa Jesuh mah bang lian-in genbaang lo ahih leh bangci bangin tatkhiatna taan kik thei ding hiam a cih ding a kilawm zaw lai ahi hi. Banghang hiam cih leh Jesuh a bat suak ding uh hi pah hiven. Banghang tatkhiatna taan kikkik nawn ding a cih ding a kilawm zaw lai hi-a, a thu gen tawh zong kileh bulh lo zaw ding hi. Bangbang hita leh Newman thupomzia nam mah ahi tatkhiatna kitaan kik thei hi. Banghang hiam cih leh tatkhiatna na ngah khitteh nang ma taavuan hita hi cih James Arminius ii thu hilh khialhna Arminianism pen 1618 kumin Synod of Dort in thupom khialhna hi ci-in nial in saang lo uh hi cih thu zong theih huai hi. Arminius teachings is rejected and denounced at Dortrecht (Dort) by international synod in 1618.

          Theih dingah: Justification tawh kisai Pasian kammal te ih lung ngaih ciangin command/imperative sentence zang ngei lo hi. Bang zang hiam ciah leh declarative sentence a kici taangkona kammal te zang hi. Declaration is a declaration and not an operation or process.
          Hih Justification ih cihcih tatkhiatna/diktansakna tawh kisai ah Pasian pen thukhen pa hi-a, pian sak nasep bang-a a sem hi nawn lo hi. "Let there be light" cih pen piansakna tawh kisai thu Pasian in a sem ahih manin tua a taang ni(sun) pen a mah le amah taang pah zia zua hi.
          Justification tawh kisai ah Pasian in taangkona tawh bek sem-a, command thupiakna (piansakna) tawh sem lo hi. Mawh neite'n diktanna a ngah theihna ding aa Khazih ii sihna hang aa a lungkimna a taangko ahi hi.
          Ciapten dingah: Diktanna pen (a judicial declarative act of God) thukhenzum pan aa Pasian taangko nasepna tawh kisai ahi hi. Mihing te sunglam panin hong piang thu tungah ki nga ngei lo hi. Hi peen hong sungtum a pualam diktanna hi-a,  Khazih min tawh diktakna ahi hi (Rom 4: 5)...It is objective... outside of man...Not subjective

          Justification tatkhiatna diktanna ih cih in mawhnei mi ih hihna dinmun panin diktang mi (tatkhiat mi) dinmun ah ong koihna ong khelna hangin thu-um pa/nu lungtang (heart) pen ki khelsak tuan lo hi. Nang pen nang mah hi lai hi teh. Na dinmun lui panin dinmun thak sungah hong ki koih hi bek hi. Nang pen Topa Jesuh a bang pah lenlan ding hi lo hiteh. 2Corinthians 5: 17na ah “Tua ahih manin mi khat peuh, Khrih tawh a kipawl ciangin mi thak suak a, a mi lui ngeina bei-in a mi thak ngeina a nei ta hi” a cihna ah thu-um mite pen hun thak sung ahi the already and not yet sungah ih omna thu a gen hi-a, tua thu-um mi nu mi pa pen perfect pah lenlan gen baanna nei vet loh pah lenlan cihna hi lo hi.

          [The Gift of Salvation: A Camouflage for Catholicism- -Richard Bennett], "Justification itself is a judicial declaration act on the part of God alone by which He declares that only in Christ is a man perfectly just before Himself, who is morally perfect Being and Holy Judge over all human beings.

          Thukhupna
          RC te pen taangtawng pek aa a doctrine mah uh tawh a ki tuak toto uh hi zaw aa, A mau tawh ki pawl ding a hanciam Evangelical pawlkhat te WCC te peen a up masak uh doctrine a khah suah kik zel te na hi gige zaw uh hi. Tu in hih ECT ki pawlna in Pasian ong piak dittanna panin mihing' diktan tawm theihna ah kaal suan uh hi.
          Taangthu sung ih et ciangh Augustine ii gal Pelagius (Pelagism) ii upna en rehang "Salvation by work" ahi hi. Tua peen Apostolic Church upna ahi Pawlpi in 431 in Ephesus council ah Pelagius aw na up khialhna hi ci-in tai uh hi. The general council of Ephesus in 431 condemned officially condemned the teaching of Pelagius. Hi salvation by work cih a hi-a, salvation by faith + work cihte pen apostolic kici Pawlpi upna ahi Salvation is by Grace through faith alone a cici pa Augstine in a na buai pih mahmah upkhialna te ahi hi.
          Tua zawh ciangin Semi-Pelagism cih khat hong om to leuleu aa, tua in pen Salvation by faith+work cih upna tawh a kaaingawi neutral position upna hong la-in hong tha hat mahmah aa, tua peen Roman Catholic te'n tu dongin adopt (saang to suak) uh hi. RC te bek hi lo-in Protestants te tampi takin zong a dinmun uh telcian lo pi-in om uh hi. Hi Semi-Pelagism zong 529 kumin Synod of Orange in thupom khialhna hi ci-in condemned leuleu hi.

          Kipom khialhna te
          Salvation=faith+ work or
          Salvation+fatih+ love


          Faith alone cihna pan in tulai Evangelical te sung nangawn ah Faith+++++++ + cih bekbek hi ta. Lawm nang koi lam pi na zuan?
          Kei muhdaan ah ni daang aa upkhialna-a, kiciamteh Pelagism upna tawh a tonto Semi-Pelagism upna faith+work peen tuni ECT te' Statement thusuah upna hong hi ta mawk ei...
          Lai Siangtho in bel Tatkhiatna pen hehpihna hang aa upna bek mah tawh ki ngah hi.
          Salvation is by Grace through Faith Alone mah na ci lai...God word never changed
          By faith Alone pan Alone ii thupitna mangngilh kei ni. Zaang khai ngaihsut kei ni maw...
          By faith ci ziau kei ni. By faith Alone cih teekteek upzia mah a khah suah lo dingin Topa' Kha Siangtho in ong pantah ta  lemaw...

          Suang Dal
          Zozaang
          Tawmvei
          Manila

           



          Try the new Yahoo! Messenger 9.0 It is finally here!
        • Thang Siangh
          Tatkhiatna pen keisaandan tawm hong kumnuam ingh. Kiniallamin pan leng bei ngeilo ding hi. Leitung silehsa aadingin thuthukpi hi. Ahi zongin Khasiangtho huhna
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 1, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Tatkhiatna pen keisaandan tawm hong kumnuam ingh. Kiniallamin pan leng bei ngeilo ding hi. Leitung silehsa aadingin thuthukpi hi. Ahi zongin Khasiangtho huhna tawh ahoihkhom ciang kitel lelin ka-um hi.
             
            1. Vantunggam pen manneilo-in a ut khempeuh lut thei hi. Icih tei hangin Jesu Christ Upna ticket i ken hamtang kul ding hi. John3:16.
             
            2. Jesu Upna ahi Pasian piak ticket ngah khempeuh, mawhmaina kipia hi. Mawhna tawh kidim mikhat Jesu mintawh Pasian kiangzuanin a thuum ciangin, mawhna khempeuh kisawpsiang kilkel hi. Tua pen Mikangten Justification by Faith naci uh hi. Pasian tanu tapa dingin mawh bang kilkel lo-a bawlphatna suahkikna ahi hi.
             
            3. Naungeek suaktung pen hong khankhiatna dingin kep kul, anvak kul leuleu hi. Pasian tangeek ahi piangthakte pen vantung an, vantung ki-ukna tawh hong khankhiat kul hi. Tua pen mikaang ten Sanctification by Faith naci leuleu hi. Tua pen gamtatna tawh i lahkhiat Upna ahi hi. James in, " Faith without work is dead" acihngiat pen ahi hi. James 2:26. Jesu Christ tatkhiatsa, mawhna kimaisaksa mikhat, Pasian tanu-tapa a suak ding a kibawkthaksa mikhat pen Pasian thu tawh kivaak ding a, kisiangtho sak tawntung ding ahi hi. John17: 17.
             
            Thu-um taktakte pen Pasian deihna zuinuam mahmah nuamsa mahmah hi.1John 3:22-24. 1John5:3.  Naungeek hong kiheitohtoh keileh cidamlo a siding ahi hi. Din hong kisin ding hi. Pau hong kisin ding hi. Amathu-in an hong ne ding hi. Naseemin hong kivaktawm ding hi. Pasian tate zong Jesu Christ hoihna tawh kidim Pasian tate limsun ding ahi hi. Christian zong leitung tawh kilamdang ding hi. Pasianthu sungah nungta ding hi. 
             
            Jesu in gupnathu a gen ciangin," buhsi leh antak" tawh gentehna nei hi. "Tuu leh keel" Tawh gentehna nei hi.  "Honpa Topa Jesu Christ theihtelna hangin, Lawki kihuai gamtatna tawh i kipelh khit ciangin, khatvei i nungtolhkik leh,  a masa sangin sia zaw hi. Thumaanna lampi mukhinin ih sansa thukham siangtho paikhia napaihkhiat sangin theilo-in om lecin manpha zaw hi. Ui in ama luak nekik hi. Vok inzong ama kisilsiang khin ahih hang a bualna ngeimahah bualkik hi, cih paunak kicinna ding ahi hi."  2Peter 2:20.
             
            Tua Pasian tanu tapa limsuun a khankhiatna ding zong, Pasian Khasiangtho haatna mahtawh hizo bek hi. Munkhempeuhah ei ki-aapna kisam a, munkhempeuhah Hehpihna tawh hong gualzawh pih ding kisam hi. Jesu bawlphatna ngentang ahi hi. Eipen tungman ihi a, a seekpa pen Pasian ahi hi. Pasian hong meek bangbang manmai ding ahi hi.
             
            Thang Siangh. zogampalpi@...


            From: suang dal <suangdal@...>
            To: blessedzomi@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 3:46:31 AM
            Subject: [ ZOGAMNET ] Tatkhiatna thu ah tulai Evangelical pawl khatte le Roman Catholic te kipawlna

             

            Tu-hun Evangelical pawl khat te le Roman Catholic te' Sankhopdaan Tatkhiatna Pom Zia


            "The Gift of Salvation" in the ECT II Statement

            Thumasa
            A beisa (History) sung ih et kikkik ciangh, RC te le Evangelical te in ki lamdaanna tampi nei hi cih ki mu thei hi. Ahih hang tu hun Evangelical pawlkhatte pen RCC tawh kipawl khop theihna ding ci in a up a saansa uh thu pen hah let nawn lo uh hi. Bangbang hi ta leh, Evangelical taktak ahi laite in bel tu ni dong mah in "Tatkhiatna ih cih pen Hehpihna tungtawn aa Upna bek mah tawh a ki ngah hi-a, tua pen Pasian  kammal ahi LST gen Khazih ii khatvei sep a tawntung aa ki mang suak Christ finished work alone,  and the Bible alone is the word of God cih mah hi ngitnget hi. Hi peen Reformers te ii Evangelical taktak ahihna uh a ki ciansak mahmah ciaptehna khat ahi hi. RC in hih doctrine peen saang khin lo hi. Hun le ni te hong ki daang hiaihiaina tawh ki zui-in, WCC te gen loh Evangelical te' sung mahmah ah zong kipawl khawm aa sepkhopna (Convergence and Cooperation) a thupi sak pha diak pawl te pen Roman Catholic lam ah hong kivial kik ta uh hi. ECT a khiatna in Evangelical te le Roman Catholic te kipawl khopna cihna hi. Evangelical Catholic together cihna hi.

            A Thu nung
            1994 kum May kha in, hih a ki banglo RC le Evangelical Protestants te in ki kupna thusuah khat nei uh-a tua pen "Evangelical and Catholic Together" cih ahi hi. Ki bat lohna tampi kawmkaal mah ah hih title mitsuan kawmin hong kalsuan toto uh hi. Tua bangin hih the first ECT statement pen on Tuesday, March 29, 1994 ni-in New York ah ki released ki suakkhia sak hi. 1996 leuleu ciangin hih ECT kipawlna in Tatkhiatna tawh kisai (the doctrine of Justification by faith alone) thu ah kilim kup bel-in hong nei ta uh hi. Hun tampi la-in hih tatkhiatna thu hong ki kup zawh uh ban ah kum 1997 October kha 6-7 ni in New York ah ki  muhkhopna pi khat hong nei kik uh hi. Tua zawh diak November kha 12, 1997 ni-in thusuah (released) nihna hong nei kik pah uh hi. December 8, 1997 ni-in tuni Christian te'n ih muh theih dingin laibu in a kipawl a thu upna uh hong bawl hong published khia uh hi. Hih Ecumenical (ECT) madawk nasep pen Charles Colson (Southern Baptist) le Richard John Neuhaus (a Roman Catholic) te' huzaap influenced hang ahi hi.

            Tatkhiatna tawh Kisai a Thusuah uh
            "We affirm together that we are justified by grace through faith because of Christ. Living faith is active in love that is nothing less than the love of Christ". Tatkhiatna pen hehpihna tungtawn aa Jesuh sungah upna tawh hi cih ih kipsak hi. A nungta upna in itna ah kilang-a, tua itna in Khazih ong itna sangin neu zaw lo hi cih thu ahi hi."

            "We agree that Justification is not earned by any good works or merits of our own; it is entirely God's gift, conferred through the Father's sheer graciousness, out of the love that he bears us in his Son, who suffered on our behalf and rose from the dead for our justification. Jesus was put to death for our trespasses and raised for our justification (Romans 4: 25). In justification, God, on the basis of Christ' righteousness alone, declares us to be no longer his rebellious enemies but his friends, and by virtue of his declaration it is so."
            "Tatkhiatna ih cih pen ei te ii hoihna le sep zawhna tawh ki ngah lo hi cih ih thukim hi. Hi pen Pasian' letsong hi. Pa ong hehpihna hang tawh hong ki ap ahi hi. A hong itna hangin a Tapa ong pia-a, tua Tapa in eite' tatkhiatna ngahna dingin ong si hi. Jesuh pen eite' mawh baanna hangin ong si aa, a hi zongin eite' tatkhiatna ngahna a ki latna in thokik hi (Romans 4: 25). Pasian in Khazih ii thumaanna le diktatzawhna a bulphuhna hang bekin eite a lehdo gal te ih hi nawn kei-a, Amah in mawh hong maisak a lawmte ih hihna amah mah ii tangkona tungtawn in a kip hi pah hi" cih thu te ahi hi.

            A Maan na uh le a Khialhna uh
            1. A tung aa "We affirm together that we are justified by grace through faith because of Christ" "Tatkhiatna pen hehpihna tungtawn aa Jesuh sungah upna tawh hi" a cihna lai gual ah Evangelical masa te upna ahi "alone" or "bek" cih kammal pen ki hem khia ta hi. By faith Alone pan'n by faith bek hong hi ta hi. Kammal Alone pen pai khia hi. Dawimangpa' nasep kiukiau ih cihcih hi kiukiau te hi...Su kekkek a cih hi dante ai ve leh!

            2. "Living faith is active in love..." "A nungta itna in itna nasepna ah kilang hi" cihna ah tatkhiatna pen sepna tawh hi a ci nuam ahih na ki lang kik zel hi. A Kel lu phum uh ki dawk zel hi.
            A mau upzia pen faith+love hi-a love pen to love is to work a hih manin, faith+work mah hong suak veve hi. Hi faith + work pen RC te ii a kikhel ngei lo thu pomzia hi-a, tuiphum hi ing na cih lanlan hangin faith + work na cih leh RC na hi gige lel hi. Na protestant upna a thei nai lo na hi hi. RC na hih vet leh bel na upna hi lel ahih manin bangmah a phamawh hi lo hi. A hing zong Protestant te ahi Tuiphum, Evangelical khawng na hih leh RC tawh na upna a kilamdangna pen by faith alone cih thu ahi hi. Faith + work pen RC thupomzia hi-a, Faith Alone pen Protestant Tuiphum Evangelical upna hi.

            Sepna  a suang pawlpi te sungah zu huan khuan kipia hi. Upna a suang pawlpi te sungah zu huan khuan kipia lo hi cih khawng zong kimu khia kiaukiau thei hi.


            [Catholicism East of Eden--Richard Bennett] laibu in hi bangin ci hi, "Church of Rome RC pawlpi pen a tawntungin a nungta upna cih concept ah ciah kik denden hi. A nungta upna a cih uh ciangin sepna tuntawn aa diktanna ngahna (works righteousness" a gen nuam uh hi-a, a diakdiakin a sacraments te uh a gen nuam ahi hi. Tua ahih manin RC sungah hih Sacraments ahi, mawhsutna cihte tatkhiatna ih ngah theihna dingin a kisam masa hi cih hong suak zel hi.

            Reformed position is that faith has no merit of its own...it is to be distinguished from love..."
            Faith initiates reason. God Grace always takes the initiation. The means and the sacraments are important but God's Grace is not from the means or of from the Sacraments. It is directly from God Himself! cih daan ahi hi.

            Theih dingah: RC te in itna a cihteh upna ii a ki helpih (love as the component of faith) in a gen nuam uh ahi hi. Lungdamna thu ii a gen ahih leh itna neih zawhna hang aa tatkhiatna ki ngah hi lo-a, Pasian ong sep sak tungah kinga liuleu aa muanna cih thu na hi zaw hi. Trusting to God.

            3. "We agree that justification.  ...is conferred [rather than imputed] a cihna vuah RC te'n hehpihna pen mawhsutna nam giat te tungtawn aa ki ngah hi cih thu hilh uh hi. A Catechism te vuah kician takin suak sak uh hi. Tatkhiatna pen a tui thehna uh Baptism pan’n ki kipsakin kingah bek hi cih daan. "Justification is conferred in Baptism..."

            ECT te' LST Muhkhialhna te Etkikna

            Khatna ah:
            Paul in Romans 4na sung aa a gen LST kammal "imputation" (biblical langugage of imputation) pen nial uh hi kici thei hi. Infusion daan in saang zaw uh cih ding hi.
            LST kammal zatzia te ut bangbangin ki laih thei lo hi napi'n amau laih uh hi. Gentehna in imputation of righteousness ding pen amau infusion of righteousness cih upna tawh sang zaw uh hi.

            Imputation of righteousness cih teh, Khazih hang-a eite midik tang cihna hi. Midik ki suak lo in midik ki tang bek hi. It is a righteousness that is "outside of" or "apart from" us that is imputed to us. This imputing righteousness does not actually make the sinner righteous by a righteous infused. Jesuh dikna tawh hong ki tuam bek hi-a, mawhnei mi peen mawh nei mi mah hi lai aa, zing ciang zong mawhna le khialhna bawl lai ding hi. Banghang hiam cih leh tua mi pa pen tua mi pa mah hi lai-a, Jesuh a suak hi zenzen lo hi. Jesuh hangin, in the name of hi bek hi.
            Perfect righteousness/ holiness cannot be attained here on earth but it can be pursued.
            Kicinna (perfection) cih pen hi leitungah ki ngah ngei lo ding-aa ahi zongin Jesuh kicinna puan tawh a ki tuam (a ki imputed) mi in tua ki cinna ahi sianthona thumaanna te a ngah ma teng delh tawntung ding hi. Tua bang pen Christian pianzia ahi hi. Imputation of righteousness cihteh pualam pan aa diktan na hi-in, Infusion/infused cihteh, sunglam pan aa diktanna cihna hi-a, eimau le eimau a dik ding aa gamtat zawh na tawh tatkhiatna ngah kul cihna hi. Infused cih tehh Jesuh hoihna le dikna pen thu-um mipa sungah kilawh suk in tua nu tua pa Jesuh bang lian suak ahih manin, tua Jesuh bang lian aa genbaanna a neih loh ni aa kipan a puk kik a mawh kik leh a tatkhiatna taan kik ding hi cih daan hi. Jeremiah 17: 9na ah zong “Lungsim in na khempeuh lakah a khem hat pen hi a, a kisia pha mahmah ahi hi…The heart is deceitful above all…” na ci hi ven. A pua lam pan aa hoihna tawh hong kituam kei leh ih sung lam pan a hoih tawm zo lo te ih hi hi. Tua leh nang a sung lam pan dikna ngah maw? A pua lam panin dikna ngah na hiam? ki ngaihsun pak in...Imputation is a legal term, something put to the credit or account of...2Cor. 5: 21.

            Infusion of righteousness cih teh eimau mahmah Khazih tatkhiatna ngah ih ki ciat ni ih pian thak ni aa ki panin midik ki suak ahih manin (Khazih ii kicingtaak dikna perfect righteousness pen eite sungah hong ki infused hong kilawh suk ahih manin midik ih suak hi. Eimau mahmah kutaai midik ih suah ni aa ki pan ih ki kep zawh kei leh, eimau tavuan hi ta ahih manin tatkhiatna ki tan kik thei cih daan hi. Hi thu tawh kisai Romans 7: 14-25 siksan in hun ih ngah tehh kikup kik dingin koih phot ni.
            [The Gift of Salvation: A Camouflage for Catholicism- -Richard Bennett] kici laibu ah, "The biblical teaching of the righteousness of God is imputed to the believer is subsumed under the Roman's traditional concept of inner or infused righteousness. " ci-in na gelh hiau hi...

            4."...and by virtue of his (God's) declaration it [justification] is so".
            Hih a lina pen RC te Newman's doctrine hi-a, a cihnopna hi bang ahi hi. The creation and justification are exactly alike, when God justifies a person He commanded, "Let this man be righteous" as in the creation..." Let there be light".  Piansakna le Diktansakna/ tatkhiatna pen a ki bang lian ahi hi. Pasian in mi khat a tatkhiat ciangh, thu pia-a, "hi mipa midik suak hen" ci in midik a suak pah hi. Bang tawh ki bang hiam cih leh, piansak hun lai aa Pasian in, "khuavaak om hen" a cih leh khuavaak a om pah tawh a ki bang ahi hi ci hi.

            Ih theih dingah Newman ii gen daanin Pasian in mawhnei mi khat piansak lai hun bangin command thupiakna tawh diktanna ahi tatkhiatna ngahsak thei ahih leh tua tatkhiatna kitaan kik thei hi a cih thu tawh kileh bulh leuleu hi. A taktakin ama cih bangin thupiakna tawh mi khat a mawhna pan tatkhiatna a kingah sak khit tehh Topa Jesuh mah bang lian-in genbaang lo ahih leh bangci bangin tatkhiatna taan kik thei ding hiam a cih ding a kilawm zaw lai ahi hi. Banghang hiam cih leh Jesuh a bat suak ding uh hi pah hiven. Banghang tatkhiatna taan kikkik nawn ding a cih ding a kilawm zaw lai hi-a, a thu gen tawh zong kileh bulh lo zaw ding hi. Bangbang hita leh Newman thupomzia nam mah ahi tatkhiatna kitaan kik thei hi. Banghang hiam cih leh tatkhiatna na ngah khitteh nang ma taavuan hita hi cih James Arminius ii thu hilh khialhna Arminianism pen 1618 kumin Synod of Dort in thupom khialhna hi ci-in nial in saang lo uh hi cih thu zong theih huai hi. Arminius teachings is rejected and denounced at Dortrecht (Dort) by international synod in 1618.

            Theih dingah: Justification tawh kisai Pasian kammal te ih lung ngaih ciangin command/imperative sentence zang ngei lo hi. Bang zang hiam ciah leh declarative sentence a kici taangkona kammal te zang hi. Declaration is a declaration and not an operation or process.
            Hih Justification ih cihcih tatkhiatna/diktansa kna tawh kisai ah Pasian pen thukhen pa hi-a, pian sak nasep bang-a a sem hi nawn lo hi. "Let there be light" cih pen piansakna tawh kisai thu Pasian in a sem ahih manin tua a taang ni(sun) pen a mah le amah taang pah zia zua hi.
            Justification tawh kisai ah Pasian in taangkona tawh bek sem-a, command thupiakna (piansakna) tawh sem lo hi. Mawh neite'n diktanna a ngah theihna ding aa Khazih ii sihna hang aa a lungkimna a taangko ahi hi.
            Ciapten dingah: Diktanna pen (a judicial declarative act of God) thukhenzum pan aa Pasian taangko nasepna tawh kisai ahi hi. Mihing te sunglam panin hong piang thu tungah ki nga ngei lo hi. Hi peen hong sungtum a pualam diktanna hi-a,  Khazih min tawh diktakna ahi hi (Rom 4: 5)...It is objective... outside of man...Not subjective

            Justification tatkhiatna diktanna ih cih in mawhnei mi ih hihna dinmun panin diktang mi (tatkhiat mi) dinmun ah ong koihna ong khelna hangin thu-um pa/nu lungtang (heart) pen ki khelsak tuan lo hi. Nang pen nang mah hi lai hi teh. Na dinmun lui panin dinmun thak sungah hong ki koih hi bek hi. Nang pen Topa Jesuh a bang pah lenlan ding hi lo hiteh. 2Corinthians 5: 17na ah “Tua ahih manin mi khat peuh, Khrih tawh a kipawl ciangin mi thak suak a, a mi lui ngeina bei-in a mi thak ngeina a nei ta hi” a cihna ah thu-um mite pen hun thak sung ahi the already and not yet sungah ih omna thu a gen hi-a, tua thu-um mi nu mi pa pen perfect pah lenlan gen baanna nei vet loh pah lenlan cihna hi lo hi.

            [The Gift of Salvation: A Camouflage for Catholicism- -Richard Bennett], "Justification itself is a judicial declaration act on the part of God alone by which He declares that only in Christ is a man perfectly just before Himself, who is morally perfect Being and Holy Judge over all human beings.

            Thukhupna
            RC te pen taangtawng pek aa a doctrine mah uh tawh a ki tuak toto uh hi zaw aa, A mau tawh ki pawl ding a hanciam Evangelical pawlkhat te WCC te peen a up masak uh doctrine a khah suah kik zel te na hi gige zaw uh hi. Tu in hih ECT ki pawlna in Pasian ong piak dittanna panin mihing' diktan tawm theihna ah kaal suan uh hi.
            Taangthu sung ih et ciangh Augustine ii gal Pelagius (Pelagism) ii upna en rehang "Salvation by work" ahi hi. Tua peen Apostolic Church upna ahi Pawlpi in 431 in Ephesus council ah Pelagius aw na up khialhna hi ci-in tai uh hi. The general council of Ephesus in 431 condemned officially condemned the teaching of Pelagius. Hi salvation by work cih a hi-a, salvation by faith + work cihte pen apostolic kici Pawlpi upna ahi Salvation is by Grace through faith alone a cici pa Augstine in a na buai pih mahmah upkhialna te ahi hi.
            Tua zawh ciangin Semi-Pelagism cih khat hong om to leuleu aa, tua in pen Salvation by faith+work cih upna tawh a kaaingawi neutral position upna hong la-in hong tha hat mahmah aa, tua peen Roman Catholic te'n tu dongin adopt (saang to suak) uh hi. RC te bek hi lo-in Protestants te tampi takin zong a dinmun uh telcian lo pi-in om uh hi. Hi Semi-Pelagism zong 529 kumin Synod of Orange in thupom khialhna hi ci-in condemned leuleu hi.

            Kipom khialhna te
            Salvation=faith+ work or
            Salvation+fatih+ love


            Faith alone cihna pan in tulai Evangelical te sung nangawn ah Faith+++++++ + cih bekbek hi ta. Lawm nang koi lam pi na zuan?
            Kei muhdaan ah ni daang aa upkhialna-a, kiciamteh Pelagism upna tawh a tonto Semi-Pelagism upna faith+work peen tuni ECT te' Statement thusuah upna hong hi ta mawk ei...
            Lai Siangtho in bel Tatkhiatna pen hehpihna hang aa upna bek mah tawh ki ngah hi.
            Salvation is by Grace through Faith Alone mah na ci lai...God word never changed
            By faith Alone pan Alone ii thupitna mangngilh kei ni. Zaang khai ngaihsut kei ni maw...
            By faith ci ziau kei ni. By faith Alone cih teekteek upzia mah a khah suah lo dingin Topa' Kha Siangtho in ong pantah ta  lemaw...

            Suang Dal
            Zozaang
            Tawmvei
            Manila

             



            Try the new Yahoo! Messenger 9.0 It is finally here!


          • pum pau
            Nobody argues the response is the cause of salvation. The issue is whether the response of the sinner is a voluntary act of free choice. God s grace
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 1, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Nobody argues the "response" is the "cause"of salvation. The issue is whether the "response"of the sinner is a voluntary act of free choice.

              God's grace precedes everything, yet, whether you will be saved or lost depends on how you exercise your freedom of choice. Simply put, if you choose to accept God's grace you are saved (will be saved), and if you choose to reject God's grace, you are lost (will be ultimately perished).






              --- On Wed, 9/30/09, suang dal <suangdal@...> wrote:

              From: suang dal <suangdal@...>
              Subject: Re: [ ZOGAMNET ] No such free-will, Tatkhiatna upna bek tawh, Upna nangawn Pasian' letsong hi lai
              To: blessedzomi@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 2:07 AM

               

              Ong zom to zel ning hun ka ngah leh.
              the sinners has his own responsibility to the call of the gospel.
              but the response is not the cause for salvation.
              Grace precedes your work.
              Kei article gelh te zong hoih tak nasim sak lo hi niteh

              Nang saan daan pen salvation by work mah ah ong tu kik zel ong tu kik zel ding hi.
              Kei saan dan pen salvation by faith alone hi. ahih hang Christian Ethics kisam.
              Christian te koi ci nuntak kampau gamtat ding cih te kisam
              A tom in gen rehang Pasian tel loh te in tatkhiatna ngah lo ding cihna



              --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Khai Boy <martinkhai@yahoo. com> wrote:

              From: Khai Boy <martinkhai@yahoo. com>
              Subject: Re: [ ZOGAMNET ] No such free-will, Tatkhiatna upna bek tawh, Upna nangawn Pasian' letsong hi lai
              To: blessedzomi@ yahoogroups. com
              Date: Tuesday, 29 September, 2009, 7:22 AM

               

              Dear, sia Suangdal
                                        Na article gelh te pen zop tohtoh ding in hai vai lel hi. Nung sung teng aa coments hong ki pia teng damtak leh thukhinkhai siamna taktawh na lung ngai le teh ki cing khin zo hi. Ei mau tha tawh ki ngah/ki tan ci uh, ci aa lang lek at ta paih ding hi lo hi. Koi pan nong top hiam bel hong theih pih sam lo maw.Kua man ei tha thang han ciamna bek tawh a ki ngah hi hong ki ci lo hi.Ei lam pan zong respondence ki sam mah mah hi cih thu vive hi.
                                       Thu khat ah na article at te pen Celvinism leh Reforminsm tung ki nga  aa na at vive hi in,tua te nasim khit teh hih thei ding maw, hi thei lo ding cih, nang i ngaihsut na man pen tawh na at khiat om sa keng. A hih thei taktak mah diam ci aa lungngaih lai zek ding hong thupi ding hi.
                                       Ken bang bel a mau muh khiat na pen Objective truth ciang hi in Subjective truth hi lo hi a ci hi pah ing. View point tawm lua leh meditation tawm lua lai hi ding uhhi ci in a mau upna san dan na ngaih sut sak ing. U Gin Mang cih tak in bel hih dan te pawl ki kup ding aa tuat vet ding hi kei zaw sa mah ing.Ki lungsim neihna hong pian ma in ei san dan tek tawh om khinkhian tek mai leng!!!.
                                     Nang ee na bang ci ngaih sut na Sia!
                                       

              --- On Tue, 9/29/09, suang dal <suangdal@yahoo. com> wrote:

              From: suang dal <suangdal@yahoo. com>
              Subject: [ ZOGAMNET ] No such free-will, Tatkhiatna upna bek tawh, Upna nangawn Pasian' letsong hi lai
              To: blessedzomi@ yahoogroups. com
              Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 3:18 PM

               
               

              Tatkhiatna eimau tha tawh kingah in, eimau tha mah tawh kitaan kik thei a ci Pelegius le Arminius te' thuhilhna te Christian tangthu ah heresy ci aa a ciamtehna thute a nuai ah sim suk lecin tawmtawm in tel niteh. Ka article gelh luisa te a vekin na sim lohpi in, kacihnopna le ka gennop thute telkhial ding hiteh.

              Semi-Pelagianism a kici faith + work a cih zong heresy ci in AD 529 in Synod of Orange in na comdemned hi.

              Hi a nuai aa ka gelh thu in tawm ong mukhia sak thei bek ding hi.

              Zom to zel ni

              The bible tells us it is by Grace through faith alone. Not your work. your work is just the result of the regeneratio of the Holy Spirt. We all are spiritally dead and no good will for spiritual thing unless the Holy Spirit touches your heart, awakens your heart.

              Let us confess together with one accord

              Justification is by Grace through faith alone in Christ Jesus alone.

              I want to explain about Objective truth and subjective truth later.

               

              Augustine kua?

              B.B Warfield in Augustine peen ki puahphatna (reformation) a piang khiasak pa hi na ci hi.

               

              Augustine peen ama hun lai-in laihilh siam minthang mahmah khat hi. Bishop of Milan, Ambrose ii huzaapna hangin zong thuhilh siam minthang mahmah khat ong suak hi. A hi zongin Augustine peen nu le pa thaangtat lunggulh mawhna in mancip den hi. Bangbang ahi zongin a pianthakna peen ong tumdang vat pian hi. Kum 31 a phak a Milan huan sungah khensat nuam ki peel nuam suakta nuam mahmah ta leh a khensat zawhloh a suahtaak zawh loh mawhna ii vangliatna pan suakta nuam-a khitui luang thungen in a om laitak aww khat ong ging in "la in la sim in", "la in la sim in" kici tha pai hi. Augustine in zong tha khat thu in Lai Siangtho la in a lem leh, Romans 13:13-14 sim kha lian-a tua ni-a ki panin tua LST munin nakpi takin a nuntakna kheel in tuni dongin Chirstian te ii pupi ong suak hi. Hehpih na bekbek (Grace alone) ih cihcih peen Augustine ii defend pi le muhkhiat lian peen ahi hi.

               

              Pelagius kua?

              Amah peen Britain gam pan'n lutol nasem te khat hi. Pelagius peen AD 380-418 kiim pawl in Rome khuapi ah Lai Siangtho sangsya khat ahi hi. Mi hoih le omdan siam mahmah khat ahi hi. Hi bangdan in siangthona lam thupi sak ahih manin, zi nei lo(asceticism) peen thupit sak bel in nei hi. Sianthona ih cih peen Pasian mai ah thumaanna tawh tatkhiatna ngahna ding-a ki sam mawhpuak ahi hi ci hi. A diakdiak in tuni-a Chirstian a kici tampi tak te ii nuntaak khuasak zia tawh a ki bang mahmah Roman Christians te' a nin mahmah Christian khuasak nuntak zia (immoral life) a muhna in siangthona (holiness) a ki sapzia uang muh sak hi. Hi bangdan in Pelagius in Chirstian te genbang lo-a nuntak a kulzia (Christian must have a holy life) thu lim gen hi. Siangthon peen tatkhiatna ngahna ding in a ki sam masa bang danin ong nak gen luat ciangin mihing ngaihsutna (humanistic idea of theology) hong lut-a tua thu in a ki nial huai thu hong piang khia sak hi.

               

              Ki nialna

              Kinialna peen Augustine ii thungetna, "Grant what thou has commandest and command what thou dost desire." a cih peen Pelagius in "No obligation can ever be placed ouside man's limitless capacity for good" cih tawh a dawnna pan'n hong ki pan ahi hi.

              Ki nialna ii a laigil peen Luahsuk mawhna (original sin or the free-will) hong hi hi.Pelagius in mi khat a suak phet in a kaaingawi (neutral) suak-a, mawh ding maw siangtho ding cih teel theihna nei hi. Mihing in a ma lungtup (will) a sep ding ama tungah ki nga hi. A tom in gen rehang salvation (tatkhiatna) ngah ding leh ngah loh ding mihing' tungah khensatna ah om hi ci hi.

              Pelagius in a gen laina ah: Mihing khat a pian sialsial in Adam in singgah a nek ma mah a bang lian pah hi-a, Adam mah bangin teel theihna hun siangtho sungah om hi ci hi.

              Adam tung pan'n aa  ih luahsuk mawhna (original sin) peen nial mawk hi. A ki tukalh Pelagius sanzia khat luahsuk mawhna umlo na pi-in naungek tuiphum saang se citciat hi.

              Mihing peen a mah le mah a mawhna paan suakta thei hi cih um hi. Pasian in ong huh ta zongin vangliatna (the power) peen ei sungah om hi ci hi.

               

              Augustine dawnna

              Augustine in luahsuk mawhna peen Adam pan in mi kim kua mah peng lo hi cih hi. Ih Pu Adam sungah ihvek pi in tua luahsuk mawhna hong ki patna bulpi ah a mawh khawm khin ih hi hi ci hi.

              Free-will tawh ki sai in Augustine in hi bangin gen hi.Adam peen mawh thei mawh lo thei hun sung (Adam was in the state of able to sin and able not to sin) ah a om masa peen pa hi-a, ahi zongin amah ong khialh khitteh a ma suan le khak minam khempeuh mawh loh ding hi thei nawn lo hi (not able not to sin).

              Mawhna bawl ding cih sim loh mihing ii lungtup zuih theihna (free-will) in sep theih khat zong nei nawn lo hi. Free-will nei ingh a ci a om leh tua a free-will peen ama aa hi lo-in Kha Siangtho piak hi bek hi (Rom.5:5 Eph. 2: 8,9; Rom 4: 4) te sim kawn rehang...

              AD 431-a Ephesus khua-a Christian khawmpi in Pelagius thuhilhna paikhia hi. The general council of Ephesus in 431 officially codemned the teachings of Pelagius. A Laklawh-Pelagianism cih (semi-Pelagianism)  in zong Pasian hehpihna (Grace) peen nial theih san theih hi. Tatkhiatna peen mihing khatciat tungah ki nga zawin Pasian tungah ki nga lo hi ci ahih manin 529 in Synod of Orange in tua semi-Pelagianism hilhna condemned leuleu hi.. Pawlpi in ahih leh Pasian thu neihna le a khawnkhong hehpihna bek mah pomto suak den in, mihing sepna tawh tatkhiatn kingah lo hi ci hi. The Church contended for God's sovereign of free grace, not man's free-will to choose.

               

              Theih dingah:

              Religion le Christianity peen ki bang lo hi.

              Religion ih cih peen man way of seeking God. Mihing te' ut zia lumkim zia le tup tawmtawh Pasian zonna hi-a, Christianity ih cih peen God way of seeking sinners ahi hi. Christianity ih cih peen Pasian mahmah in a tapa Khrih tungtawn-a mawhnei mi (Jews and Gentiles a kibang) ong zong tawm in ong tatkhia cihna ahi hi.

              Leitungah Pasian a zong khat zong omlo-a Pasian' ong zonsa vive ih hi. Pasian a zong zaw deuh aa ki nei te peen Pasian tel mite bek mah hi pah hi. Hun masa lam in ahih leh bel Pasian tel minam Israel te bek mah in Pasian na zong tei-a ahi zongin ih Topa Jesuh hun zawh ahih leh bel, Gentile te zong lungdamnathu (the gospel) in hong zong ta hi. Lungdam huai maw.

               

              Suang Dal

              Zozaang Khua

              Tawmvei

              Manila



              Open emails faster.
              Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade your browser to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimized for Yahoo!.Get it here! (It's free)



              How many ways can you cook Adobo?
              Find out all of them on Yahoo! Answers.


            • Thang Mang
              Dear Sia Suang Dal,   Lai nong thuk kik lung dam ee? Sia bang nong cih ciang hong ki suangsak cia bangmah thei peuhmah khang ee.Pasian in hehpih na twh
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 2, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Dear Sia Suang Dal,
                 
                Lai nong thuk kik lung dam ee? Sia bang nong cih ciang hong ki suangsak cia bangmah thei peuhmah khang ee.Pasian in hehpih na twh gupkhiatna ngah na ding bek thamloh mihing mahmah ama hong bawltawm hi zen mawk hi hang. Ih mawhciang in zong amah mahmah in gupkhiat na ding lampi hong honsak in tatkhiatna nasep khempeuh kicing tak in hong sepkhin zo hi. Mawhna thaman sihna hi aa tua sihna pen Pasian lo ( creator) mihing te in pilna hatna hoihna tawh gualzawh theih hilo, nuntakna anei pasian bek septheih thu ahi hi.Gupkhiatna pen pasian hehpih na lo tawh apaing thei thu hi lo hi. Tua pen ih sandan ki bnag khin lel ding hi.Hih thu pen Khasiangtho lawn loh mi, Pasian hilh loh mi te thei zolo uh hi. Tua ahih leh mihingta te sung ah pawlkhat in thei in pawlkhat in theilo mawk hiam? Pasian in teltuam deuh mah nei a hiam?
                  
                Gupna ngahlo te Pasian mah in a teloh te hi pah ve maw? Tua te khasiangtho in lawngnuam lo hi mai hin teh mete? Tua ahihleh in Jn 3:16 ah whosoever ( a um mi khempueh te) a ding ci ahihteh aum ding te zong tuamtel  a hi diam? Kuate or abangci mi te Khasiangtho lawngnuam hiam thulu in nei leng hong thupi ding hi. Tua ban ah salvation by faith ih cih pen in bang khiatna nei takpi hiam cih  hong kuppih lai le cin ut mahmah ingh. Adiak in Heb 11 te bang teltheih huai sa mahmah ingh.  hong kuppih lai ve maw?
                 
                genkhai aom leh hongmai sak in,
                 
                lungdam thuhoih tawh,
                Mangpi
                tawmvei Miami

                --- On Wed, 9/30/09, suang dal <suangdal@...> wrote:

                From: suang dal <suangdal@...>
                Subject: Re: [ ZOGAMNET ] No such free-will, Tatkhiatna upna bek tawh, Upna nangawn Pasian' letsong hi lai
                To: blessedzomi@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 5:18 AM

                 
                Dear Sya Mang,
                Pasian in mihing bawl. hu muam. Pasian mah in mawhnei te kisik kik theihna ding LST Pasian' kamma zang. Pasian, Pasian, Pasian masa den. God always that the initiative.
                Tua Pasian thu gen te in ei hong tel uh hi lo. Pasian kammal a kizak ciangaa mawhna kisikna piang thei bek. Pasian Kammal the gospel in mimawh te zong hi. Pasian Pasian Pasian in tel... Nang hi lo. Pasian kammal in ong mu khia...Pasian' kammal ih zak ciang upna pen sepna tawh ngah na kici lo. Hehpihna kici zaw

                Kha Siangtho in a lawn mi lo buang in tel thei lo. tel thei ngei lo. Tua man aa lungdamna thu le Kha Siangtho kisam hi hang. Mi khat in a up teh, a dang mimawh te sang hoih zawkna a neihna hang hi peuh mah lo. A hoih lo pi mah aa Pasian telna pen hehpihna hi.
                Pasian in a taktak aa ih vekpi aa, hong tatkhiat a kul nawn lo lel hi hang. A kibang gai ih hi hi. A hi zongin Pasian in hehpihna a neihna pen taza lo fair lo cih theihna ding thu om lo hi.





                --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Thang Mang <siansiam227@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                From: Thang Mang <siansiam227@ yahoo.com>
                Subject: Re: [ ZOGAMNET ] No such free-will, Tatkhiatna upna bek tawh, Upna nangawn Pasian' letsong hi lai
                To: blessedzomi@ yahoogroups. com
                Date: Tuesday, 29 September, 2009, 6:42 AM

                 
                Kong zahtak  Sia Suang Dal,
                 
                Thu khat hong dong nuam ingh. Ei mihing te in bang mah ki mutel zo lo, thei tel zo lo hang aa tua ban ah ahoih leh hoih lo na leng a tel theih zo te ih hi kei hi. A hi zong in tel ding thunih hong om ciang ahoih zaw lampi hong hilh ding ei sang a theizaw amu zaw huhna ih ki sam hi. Tua hun tak ciang in Holy Spirit huhna ( kha lam ah) ei sang thei zaw mi (thu khat peuhpeuh) te huhna hang in ih theih loh thu thei in ahoih zaw ih tel tak ciang in hong hilh te tel hi ci ding ih hiam ei ma tel hi ki ci zaw ding hiam?
                 
                Gupkhiatna ih ngah theih na ding mihing lam pan beem ( zero) hi.Tua ahih man in Pasian Grace hehpih khualna tawh lampi maan hong lak in ih tel zawh/ theih na ding Holy Spirit in tha leh pilna hong guan hi. Tua pen mihing te tel  maw Pasian tel hiam? Mihing ten ih tel hi ci leng ih khial ding hiam? Tua pen Laisiangtho in hehpihna / Grace acih den keei pen hi lo ahiam?
                thu thei nuam ,
                Mangpi,
                tawmvei Miami
                --- On Tue, 9/29/09, suang dal <suangdal@yahoo. com> wrote:

                From: suang dal <suangdal@yahoo. com>
                Subject: [ ZOGAMNET ] No such free-will, Tatkhiatna upna bek tawh, Upna nangawn Pasian' letsong hi lai
                To: blessedzomi@ yahoogroups. com
                Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 3:18 AM

                 

                Semi-Pelagianism a kici faith + work a cih zong heresy ci in AD 529 in Synod of Orange in na comdemned hi.

                Hi a nuai aa ka gelh thu in tawm ong mukhia sak thei bek ding hi.

                Zom to zel ni

                The bible tells us it is by Grace through faith alone. Not your work. your work is just the result of the regeneratio of the Holy Spirt. We all are spiritally dead and no good will for spiritual thing unless the Holy Spirit touches your heart, awakens your heart.

                Let us confess together with one accord

                Justification is by Grace through faith alone in Christ Jesus alone.

                I want to explain about Objective truth and subjective truth later.

                 

                Augustine kua?

                B.B Warfield in Augustine peen ki puahphatna (reformation) a piang khiasak pa hi na ci hi.

                 

                Augustine peen ama hun lai-in laihilh siam minthang mahmah khat hi. Bishop of Milan, Ambrose ii huzaapna hangin zong thuhilh siam minthang mahmah khat ong suak hi. A hi zongin Augustine peen nu le pa thaangtat lunggulh mawhna in mancip den hi. Bangbang ahi zongin a pianthakna peen ong tumdang vat pian hi. Kum 31 a phak a Milan huan sungah khensat nuam ki peel nuam suakta nuam mahmah ta leh a khensat zawhloh a suahtaak zawh loh mawhna ii vangliatna pan suakta nuam-a khitui luang thungen in a om laitak aww khat ong ging in "la in la sim in", "la in la sim in" kici tha pai hi. Augustine in zong tha khat thu in Lai Siangtho la in a lem leh, Romans 13:13-14 sim kha lian-a tua ni-a ki panin tua LST munin nakpi takin a nuntakna kheel in tuni dongin Chirstian te ii pupi ong suak hi. Hehpih na bekbek (Grace alone) ih cihcih peen Augustine ii defend pi le muhkhiat lian peen ahi hi.

                 

                Pelagius kua?

                Amah peen Britain gam pan'n lutol nasem te khat hi. Pelagius peen AD 380-418 kiim pawl in Rome khuapi ah Lai Siangtho sangsya khat ahi hi. Mi hoih le omdan siam mahmah khat ahi hi. Hi bangdan in siangthona lam thupi sak ahih manin, zi nei lo(asceticism) peen thupit sak bel in nei hi. Sianthona ih cih peen Pasian mai ah thumaanna tawh tatkhiatna ngahna ding-a ki sam mawhpuak ahi hi ci hi. A diakdiak in tuni-a Chirstian a kici tampi tak te ii nuntaak khuasak zia tawh a ki bang mahmah Roman Christians te' a nin mahmah Christian khuasak nuntak zia (immoral life) a muhna in siangthona (holiness) a ki sapzia uang muh sak hi. Hi bangdan in Pelagius in Chirstian te genbang lo-a nuntak a kulzia (Christian must have a holy life) thu lim gen hi. Siangthon peen tatkhiatna ngahna ding in a ki sam masa bang danin ong nak gen luat ciangin mihing ngaihsutna (humanistic idea of theology) hong lut-a tua thu in a ki nial huai thu hong piang khia sak hi.

                 

                Ki nialna

                Kinialna peen Augustine ii thungetna, "Grant what thou has commandest and command what thou dost desire." a cih peen Pelagius in "No obligation can ever be placed ouside man's limitless capacity for good" cih tawh a dawnna pan'n hong ki pan ahi hi.

                Ki nialna ii a laigil peen Luahsuk mawhna (original sin or the free-will) hong hi hi.Pelagius in mi khat a suak phet in a kaaingawi (neutral) suak-a, mawh ding maw siangtho ding cih teel theihna nei hi. Mihing in a ma lungtup (will) a sep ding ama tungah ki nga hi. A tom in gen rehang salvation (tatkhiatna) ngah ding leh ngah loh ding mihing' tungah khensatna ah om hi ci hi.

                Pelagius in a gen laina ah: Mihing khat a pian sialsial in Adam in singgah a nek ma mah a bang lian pah hi-a, Adam mah bangin teel theihna hun siangtho sungah om hi ci hi.

                Adam tung pan'n aa  ih luahsuk mawhna (original sin) peen nial mawk hi. A ki tukalh Pelagius sanzia khat luahsuk mawhna umlo na pi-in naungek tuiphum saang se citciat hi.

                Mihing peen a mah le mah a mawhna paan suakta thei hi cih um hi. Pasian in ong huh ta zongin vangliatna (the power) peen ei sungah om hi ci hi.

                 

                Augustine dawnna

                Augustine in luahsuk mawhna peen Adam pan in mi kim kua mah peng lo hi cih hi. Ih Pu Adam sungah ihvek pi in tua luahsuk mawhna hong ki patna bulpi ah a mawh khawm khin ih hi hi ci hi.

                Free-will tawh ki sai in Augustine in hi bangin gen hi.Adam peen mawh thei mawh lo thei hun sung (Adam was in the state of able to sin and able not to sin) ah a om masa peen pa hi-a, ahi zongin amah ong khialh khitteh a ma suan le khak minam khempeuh mawh loh ding hi thei nawn lo hi (not able not to sin).

                Mawhna bawl ding cih sim loh mihing ii lungtup zuih theihna (free-will) in sep theih khat zong nei nawn lo hi. Free-will nei ingh a ci a om leh tua a free-will peen ama aa hi lo-in Kha Siangtho piak hi bek hi (Rom.5:5 Eph. 2: 8,9; Rom 4: 4) te sim kawn rehang...

                AD 431-a Ephesus khua-a Christian khawmpi in Pelagius thuhilhna paikhia hi. The general council of Ephesus in 431 officially codemned the teachings of Pelagius. A Laklawh-Pelagianism cih (semi-Pelagianism)  in zong Pasian hehpihna (Grace) peen nial theih san theih hi. Tatkhiatna peen mihing khatciat tungah ki nga zawin Pasian tungah ki nga lo hi ci ahih manin 529 in Synod of Orange in tua semi-Pelagianism hilhna condemned leuleu hi.. Pawlpi in ahih leh Pasian thu neihna le a khawnkhong hehpihna bek mah pomto suak den in, mihing sepna tawh tatkhiatn kingah lo hi ci hi. The Church contended for God's sovereign of free grace, not man's free-will to choose.

                 

                Theih dingah:

                Religion le Christianity peen ki bang lo hi.

                Religion ih cih peen man way of seeking God. Mihing te' ut zia lumkim zia le tup tawmtawh Pasian zonna hi-a, Christianity ih cih peen God way of seeking sinners ahi hi. Christianity ih cih peen Pasian mahmah in a tapa Khrih tungtawn-a mawhnei mi (Jews and Gentiles a kibang) ong zong tawm in ong tatkhia cihna ahi hi.

                Leitungah Pasian a zong khat zong omlo-a Pasian' ong zonsa vive ih hi. Pasian a zong zaw deuh aa ki nei te peen Pasian tel mite bek mah hi pah hi. Hun masa lam in ahih leh bel Pasian tel minam Israel te bek mah in Pasian na zong tei-a ahi zongin ih Topa Jesuh hun zawh ahih leh bel, Gentile te zong lungdamnathu (the gospel) in hong zong ta hi. Lungdam huai maw.

                 

                Suang Dal

                Zozaang Khua

                Tawmvei

                Manila

                 

                Tatkhiatna eimau tha tawh kingah in, eimau tha mah tawh kitaan kik thei a ci Pelegius le Arminius te' thuhilhna te Christian tangthu ah heresy ci aa a ciamtehna thute a nuai ah sim suk lecin tawmtawm in tel niteh. Ka article gelh luisa te a vekin na sim lohpi in, kacihnopna le ka gennop thute telkhial ding hiteh.



                Open emails faster.
                Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade your browser to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimized for Yahoo!.Get it here! (It's free)


                Have a new Yahoo! Mail account?
                Kick start your journey by importing all your contacts!
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.