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Re: love/origins of man

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  • Mike Tintner
    Chris writes: It seems that many literary texts are about love and the origins of man; rich pickings, no? Chris, Obviously, romance/love is by far the largest
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 2, 2006
      Chris writes:

      It seems that many literary texts are about
      love and the origins of man; rich pickings, no?


      Chris,

      Obviously, romance/love is by far the largest category
      in both literary & popular art - and, as far as I'm
      aware, has attracted considerable attention from all
      forms of literary criticism.

      But what do you mean by "origins of man" texts? I
      can't think offhand of any literary categories or
      groups of works that would fit that phrase, that
      aren't pretty insignificant in size and importance.
      (This is much the same as a previous question that
      never received an answer: how many works are DIRECTLY
      about evolution? )



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    • sadf sadf
      there are many , but the three that spring to mind happen to be among my favourites: lucretius de rerum natura, Paradise lost, and the bible. Those things
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 2, 2006
        there are many , but the three that spring to mind happen to be among my favourites:  lucretius de rerum natura,  Paradise lost,  and the bible. Those things which can not be easily explained, tend to be attributed to divine causes. 'be fruitful and multiply' anyone? Certain physiological effects that seem to 'come from nowhere', things like eccesive maternal love, jealousy, revenge, hate, fear, even lesser stuff like blushing, tears, have all been attributed to the gods. of course, all these things have a physiological, dare i say it, biological origin, or so the latest thoeries go. anyone can costruct a perfect sentence, and point to certain empircally viable rules of grammar, even come up with evolutionary reasons why those rules of grammer exist. likewise, anybody can point at a young women being chased by men in a novel, and come out wiht some reason, and byt extension, we can deal with more complicated scenarios, in ever more impressive ways,, and what I am more intersted in, regarding the field of biopoetics, is what makes the study of milton's or shakespeare's running man more captivating. my latest crackpot theory is that the answer has something to do with the way in  the way in which an infant, and how this relates to rhyme, assonance, etc. this is what poets do, no? i love your list, but, it seems to me, it has precious little to do with poetry, and might more accuraly, and less pretentiosuly, be described as 'bioentertainment'. Please don't take this as an insult, i think it is all valualble.

        Chris

        ps, apolosgies for the signature, my efforts to change it have failed

        Mike Tintner <andarot@...> wrote:
        Chris writes:

        It seems that many literary texts are  about
        love and the origins of man; rich pickings, no?


        Chris,

        Obviously, romance/love is by far the largest category
        in both literary & popular art - and, as far as I'm
        aware, has attracted considerable attention from all
        forms of literary criticism.

        But what do you mean by "origins of man" texts? I
        can't think offhand of any literary categories or
        groups of works that would fit that phrase, that
        aren't pretty insignificant in size and importance.
        (This is much the same as a previous question that
        never received an answer: how many works are DIRECTLY
        about evolution? )


                   
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      • sadf sadf
        sadf sadf wrote: there are many , but the three that spring to mind happen to be among my favourites: lucretius de rerum natura,
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 2, 2006
          sadf sadf <duberydocs@...> wrote:
          there are many , but the three that spring to mind happen to be among my favourites:  lucretius de rerum natura,  Paradise lost,  and the bible. Those things which can not be easily explained, tend to be attributed to divine causes. 'be fruitful and multiply' anyone? Certain physiological effects that seem to 'come from nowhere', things like eccesive maternal love, jealousy, revenge, hate, fear, even lesser stuff like blushing, tears, have all been attributed to the gods. of course, all these things have a physiological, dare i say it, biological origin, or so the latest thoeries go. anyone can costruct a perfect sentence, and point to certain empircally viable rules of grammar, even come up with evolutionary reasons why those rules of grammer exist. likewise, anybody can point at a young women being chased by men in a novel, and come out wiht some reason, and byt extension, we can deal with more complicated scenarios, in ever more impressive ways,, and what I am more intersted in, regarding the field of biopoetics, is what makes the study of milton's or shakespeare's running man more captivating. my latest crackpot theory is that the answer has something to do with the way in  the way in which an infant plays with words and sounds without regard to mean ing, and how this relates to rhyme, assonance, etc. this is what poets do, no? play off sound and meaning. i love your list, but, it seems to me, it has precious little to do with poetry, . Please don't take this as an insult, i think it is all valualble.

          Chris

          ps, apolosgies for the signature, my efforts to change it have failed

          Mike Tintner <andarot@...> wrote:
          Chris writes:

          It seems that many literary texts are  about
          love and the origins of man; rich pickings, no?


          Chris,

          Obviously, romance/love is by far the largest category
          in both literary & popular art - and, as far as I'm
          aware, has attracted considerable attention from all
          forms of literary criticism.

          But what do you mean by "origins of man" texts? I
          can't think offhand of any literary categories or
          groups of works that would fit that phrase, that
          aren't pretty insignificant in size and importance.
          (This is much the same as a previous question that
          never received an answer: how many works are DIRECTLY
          about evolution? )


                     
          ___________________________________________________________
          To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com


          Yahoo! Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo.


          To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre.

        • Tom Dolack
          my latest crackpot theory is that the answer has something to do with the way in the way in which an infant, and how this relates to rhyme, assonance, etc.
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 2, 2006

                       

             

            my latest crackpot theory is that the answer has something to do with the way in  the way in which an infant, and how this relates to rhyme, assonance, etc. this is what poets do, no? i love your list, but, it seems to me, it has precious little to do with poetry, and might more accuraly, and less pretentiosuly, be described as 'bioentertainment'. Please don't take this as an insult, i think it is all valualble.

            As Bill would say, [SNIP]

             

            Much of the work in the field has been applying Ev Psych to various literary texts, which has been and will continue to be productive. But Ev Psych, like psychology more generally, is the study of human behavior, and thus will only have so much to say as far as more formal aspects of literature. Since poetry foregrounds the formal aspects, you’re not going to crack open a poem using these methods. What’s needed for rhyme, assonance, etc. (from a biopoetics perspective) is the other prong of the field, cognitive science. Work by Reuven Tsur and Bill Benzon (I can forward you references) does a good job of showing what this approach is capable of, although it too is in its infancy. Maybe early adolescence. Being a specialist in the lyric it’s something I’ve been trying to wrap my mind around in my spare time.

            td

             

          • sadf sadf
            the sceintific side of the feild of biopoetics, though i am underqulaifeid to say this, can only progress at the same speed as the the artistic. Tight
            Message 5 of 5 , Mar 2, 2006
              the sceintific side of the feild of biopoetics,  though i am underqulaifeid to say this, can only progress at the same speed as the the artistic. Tight methods devoloped for the purpse of eludicating difficult and amibgous texts were in place from the middle ages, in the form of biblical exegisis. Once these methods were applied to secular texts, literary criticsim exploded, teh beneift is immeasurable. The impact fo the biological sceinces will, i am quite sure, have a comparable impact. But my point is, that these methods were available for centureis before they were applied to secular texts, and ev phsy is hardly in its infancy,  nietzche was using darwinian theory, immature as it was, to analyse art over 100 years ago with more effect than the leading scholars do today. (though forgive me, i have only read a handful, and english at that) . im my opinion, There is no excuse for the bias towards ev. sceince, at the expense of close reading of the texts. ev pshcy is as well devoloped as exegesis was in 1700 when patrick hume ripped apart the world of literary criticism.

              regarding my last email, it should have  read 'the way in which an infant plays with sounds w is clearly an adaptive developmental process. writers 'play' with teh sound of words in such a way that effects laughter and tears, to mention the most overtly biological effects. i suspect that infancy has a lot to tell us about why react to art in different ways.

              Tom, i would be very grateful if you could forward me with teh references

              Apologies,

              Chris









              Tom Dolack <tdolack@...> wrote:
                         
               
              my latest crackpot theory is that the answer has something to do with the way in  the way in which an infant, and how this relates to rhyme, assonance, etc. this is what poets do, no? i love your list, but, it seems to me, it has precious little to do with poetry, and might more accuraly, and less pretentiosuly, be described as 'bioentertainment'. Please don't take this as an insult, i think it is all valualble.

              As Bill would say, [SNIP]
               
              Much of the work in the field has been applying Ev Psych to various literary texts, which has been and will continue to be productive. But Ev Psych, like psychology more generally, is the study of human behavior, and thus will only have so much to say as far as more formal aspects of literature. Since poetry foregrounds the formal aspects, you’re not going to crack open a poem using these methods. What’s needed for rhyme, assonance, etc. (from a biopoetics perspective) is the other prong of the field, cognitive science. Work by Reuven Tsur and Bill Benzon (I can forward you references) does a good job of showing what this approach is capable of, although it too is in its infancy. Maybe early adolescence. Being a specialist in the lyric it’s something I’ve been trying to wrap my mind around in my spare time.
              td
               



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