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855Re: [biopoet] Re: "Lack of feedback" - StoryAlity & algorithms

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  • Bill Benzon
    Aug 28, 2013

      On Aug 28, 2013, at 11:04 AM, JT Velikovsky wrote:


      On 28/08/2013 9:15 PM, Bill Benzon wrote:

      On Aug 28, 2013, at 5:50 AM, tintner michael wrote:

       "to carry on a conversation as though no one's looked at this before the current century, that's just foolish"

      If you're discussing the possibility of an algorithm for a story or movie, you're discussing something that dictates the entire structure - every scene, every speech within a scene and the structure of the scene and those speeches (as well as the physical action).

      The stuff you're citing is like an extremely crude and shadowy x-ray of works as opposed to detailed anatomies. It's a *start* But only the barest of starts. And it's not yet influential is it? The vast majority of literary critics remain untouched  by it.

      But then NO ONE has detailed anatomies, do they? I don't see you and JT having detailed discussions or citing such. This talk of algorithms is mostly nonsense having little relation to the algorithms actually running in real computers.

      [JT] ...Guys - nope, *not at all*... !!! - Stop!

      ie - That is, in fact - exactly, what I have been talking about -- the entire time...?
      (Check out my blog sometime... it's *all on there*: http://storyality.wordpress.com/an-index-to-this-blog/)

      ie - The Fibonacci Sequence, is an algorithm...
      - It's a recursive algorithm. [Start with: 0, 1, and - Take the last 2 numbers and add them together. Repeat, forever.]
      The closer you get to infinity, the closer that, each number - divided by the previous number, gets to: The Golden Mean (1:1.601...etc)
      ie (2/1), (3/2), (5/3), (8/5), (13/8), etc = 1:1.6…etc

      But then if you look hard enough, you can find the Fibonacci series all over the place. Lots of people have done that.

      So - the whole time we've been talking algorithms, I've really been saying: earlier this year, I discovered The Fibonacci Sequence (which is: an algorithm), and therefore, the Golden Mean - in the Story Structure of: all of the Top 20 RoI Films.
      Nobody seems to have heard me say this, yet.

      - It is all there - for anyone who wants to test it...
      (But also - who else exactly, has the time to examine those 20 x films in detail? - It took me AGES to do :)
      - Seriously. It was an *incredible* amount of time and sweat.
      But, thankfully, it paid off.

      - It's all there, on the blog - and it's also, in my `StoryAlity' book, that I published, last May....

      ie - The Golden Ratio / The Golden Spiral / The Fibonacci Sequence in the Top 20 RoI (Most Viral) Films


      ie - This is the algorithm: 1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21, etc -

      And - it's all right there, in the plot-structure of all 20, of the most-viral feature films, ever.

      ie - They all (all 20 films) do the exact same thing - in their story - in: Minute 1, in Minute 2, in Minute 3, in Minute 5, in Minute 8, Minute 13, Minute 21 etc.
      - Check it all...

      So? Have you checked the bottom 10,000 ROI films? If the Fibonacci series is there, then its presence in the top 20 doesn't mean much. Perhaps all films are like that, like all films have 3 acts, or 4. If you haven't checked the bottom 10,000 ROI films, then you simply don't know whether the Fibonacci series is special to films that generate large ROI. You need to analyze a random sample of films and you need to have the analysis done by at least three independent judges. If they agree in their analysis, then there's reason to believe that what they've found is really there. 

      But if ALL you have is your own analysis, then how do we know you didn't conduct your analysis in such a way that you're guaranteed to find what you're looking for? People do it all the time.

      And plot is hardly all that matters. Acting, cinematography, overall design, that's important too. If you took your top 20 films and reshot them all, frame for frame, with lousy actors, no one would watch them. But they're still Fibonacci films.


      Turns out (from my research) there are: at least 30 x things you need to do `right' in your screenplay.
      (Just 1 of which, out of the 30, is: the Fibonacci Sequence, in the story structure. Of course it isn't `simple', and it isn't even: very easy to do. ie - Do 30 x different things in a screenplay. Otherwise - every movie would be a hit.)

      But there's more to the movie than the screen play, no?

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