Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [biofuel] First time post. Questions.

Expand Messages
  • Dana Linscott
    This is my first post: I have been approached by a group of local (MN) farmers about producing their own fuel from vegetable oil (corn/soybean). My first stop
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 18, 2001
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      This is my first post:

      I have been approached by a group of local (MN)
      farmers about producing their own fuel from vegetable
      oil (corn/soybean). My first stop was the local
      Library where I found a copy of "From The Fryer to the
      Fuel Tank". After making some calls I determined that
      it would make more sense to use "fryer oil" as a
      feedstuff as more than an adequate supply exists
      locally.

      Second stage was �web surfing� for additional info and
      there seems to be quite a bit...I have been wading
      through it for several days.

      Stage three is of course to make few small test
      batches...have ordered some supplies and gathered 10
      gals of waste veg. oil. Some scepticism on the part of
      a few in the group (thank God for sceptics) is also
      resulting in concurrent test batches using �new� corn
      oil.

      Our aim is to set up a portable unit with a 500 gal
      stainless steel �reaction vessel� after a small 20
      gal. test unit is run for a few months to get the
      process down and enough usable fuel to test. We plan
      on using a small diesel generator to test run the fuel
      and later power the 500 gal. portable unit. Several of
      the participants own diesel pickups which will serve
      as later test beds. End goal is to have the 500 gal.
      unit up and running next Fall and produce enough
      Biodiesel to be independent of petroleum prices by
      Spring of 2002.

      As a �retired� engineer I want to set up a process
      with as little waste products as possible. It seems
      feasible that the glycerin byproduct can be used as a
      fuel for home heating and possibly grain drying. I
      know that there are some special considerations (fuel
      must be warm to flow,etc.) but:
      Can a �standard� fuel oil furnace �gun�
      (atomizer/igniter unit) be modified to use this
      byproduct or does one need to go to something like a
      �waste (crankcase) oil� furnace?
      Also,
      It makes sense to vacuum distill off the
      unreacted methanol used in the process simply as a
      cost saving measure. Does retrieval/removal of the
      methanol also have the benefit of not having to
      replace rubber components in fuel systems or does the
      resulting Biodiesel still soften/dissolve them?
      How much (%) of the methanol is recoverable?
      Also,
      We are currently planning on using the
      �Foolproof� method by Aleks Kac...involving H2SO4
      induced esterification. I understand that the sulphur
      ends up in the glycerin byproduct. Is anyone aware of
      a simple process to remove it? I would prefer to not
      dump it into the atmosphere if the byproduct is used
      as fuel for heat production.

      Some of the participants are also interested in
      producing their own "fertilizer� similar to what they
      currently use in addition to what natural fertilizer
      is available (corn is a heavy �feeder�). Does anyone
      have any experience with such a product/process?

      Does anyone know if the glycerin byproduct is suitable
      or can be modified to be used as fertilzer?

      Thanks for your help,
      Dana Linscott


      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
      http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
    • Appal Energy
      Dana, You may be a bloody damn genius and not even know it. We are awaiting results of tests running straight vegetable oil in a waste crankcase oil fired
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 18, 2001
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        Dana,

        You may be a bloody damn genius and not even know it. We are awaiting
        results of tests running straight vegetable oil in a"waste crankcase oil"
        fired commercial unit

        We should have also sent out samples of the glycerin, one with the excess
        methanol remaining in it and one that had the methanol distilled out of it.
        (Note to self: Ship out glycerin samples to heating company.)

        Also, there is some effort being made here to improve the glycerin's
        combustion properties by converting it through a non-intensive chemical
        process.

        As to seal and hose replacement, methanol is removed either through
        distillation or the washing. There is no methanol in the eventual biodiesel.
        The primary reason for distillation is to decrease production costs and
        toxic waste, while washing out the methanol keeps costs higher and only adds
        effluents to the waste stream.

        Using the acid esterification / transesterification, with glycerin draining
        between steps will insure your success.

        You might wish to alter the process to utilize phosphoric acid and potassium
        hydroxide in the equivalent stoichiometric amounts. You will eventually end
        up with potassium phosphate. Using this method, all wash water (after the
        methanol has been recovered from the biodiesel via distillation) is
        essentially a fertilizer and can be disposed of as an irrigation gray water.

        You are entirely on track.

        Good luck and take copius notes and pictures.

        Todd Swearingen
        Appal Energy
        apenergy@...
      • Aleksander <kac
        ... Good, but don t forget that natural oil reserves will not power you, as with massive biodiesel production they will perrish much earlyer than dinosaur oil.
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 19, 2001
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          > Our aim is to set up a portable unit with a 500 gal
          > stainless steel "reaction vessel" after a small 20
          > gal. test unit is run for a few months to get the
          > process down and enough usable fuel to test. We plan
          > on using a small diesel generator to test run the fuel
          > and later power the 500 gal. portable unit. Several of
          > the participants own diesel pickups which will serve
          > as later test beds. End goal is to have the 500 gal.
          > unit up and running next Fall and produce enough
          > Biodiesel to be independent of petroleum prices by
          > Spring of 2002.
          Good, but don't forget that natural oil reserves will not
          power you, as with massive biodiesel production they will
          perrish much earlyer than dinosaur oil. My friends and me
          are already forced to pay for xyz quality used oil - the
          price is currently 15% of dinodisel price (at the station) for
          badly used oil and fats. Good oil without solid fats and low
          in FFA is priced 25% of dinodiesel.

          > It makes sense to vacuum distill off the
          > unreacted methanol used in the process simply as a
          > cost saving measure. Does retrieval/removal of the
          > methanol also have the benefit of not having to
          > replace rubber components in fuel systems or does the
          > resulting Biodiesel still soften/dissolve them?
          > How much (%) of the methanol is recoverable?
          Almost a quarter, sometimes more. Depends on the type of reaction
          vessel you are using. If you have a sealed drasinble reactor, you
          must keep the glycerine flowing, else you won't be able to get it out.
          Also depends on the type of oil/fat you are processing.

          > Also,
          > We are currently planning on using the
          > "Foolproof" method by Aleks Kac...involving H2SO4
          > induced esterification. I understand that the sulphur
          > ends up in the glycerin byproduct. Is anyone aware of
          > a simple process to remove it? I would prefer to not
          > dump it into the atmosphere if the byproduct is used
          > as fuel for heat production.
          It's really a tiny amount of sulphur left in the glycerine, and this
          is in the form of sodium sulphate. I don't know of any "not-
          painstainkingly-hard-or-expensive" method to remove it. Perhaps, if
          you mixed the glycerine with a water solution of spent lime (aka
          calcium hydroxide-not expensive) to form CaSO4.5H20-which is
          alabaster. Could work, but I do not mind the small amount of sulphate
          in the glycerine. Alabaster is not water soluble and could be
          filtered.
          > Some of the participants are also interested in
          > producing their own "fertilizer" similar to what they
          > currently use in addition to what natural fertilizer
          > is available (corn is a heavy "feeder"). Does anyone
          > have any experience with such a product/process?
          It takes KOH instead of NaOH for the base catalyst. Most industrial
          producers make it with KOH, but for this is too expensive (You need
          twice much KOH, which itself is three times more expensive). Then you
          would have to neutralize with H3PO4 during the wash. I find vinegar
          more 'bio'.

          > Does anyone know if the glycerin byproduct is suitable
          > or can be modified to be used as fertilzer?
          As any organig matter it is compostable.

          Cheers, Aleks
        • k5farms@yahoo.com
          ... Then it should be able to be mixed with manure in an anerobic digestor to create methane, eh?
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 19, 2001
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment
            >
            > > Does anyone know if the glycerin byproduct is suitable
            > > or can be modified to be used as fertilzer?
            > As any organig matter it is compostable.
            >
            > Cheers, Aleks

            Then it should be able to be mixed with manure in an anerobic
            digestor to create methane, eh?
          • Trudy Williams
            try http://www.jatropha.org/ PS. I have a friend working in Mali, Willy Geffard, who still has not started producing biodiesel and does Economic Development
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 19, 2001
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              try http://www.jatropha.org/

              PS. I have a friend working in Mali, Willy Geffard, who still has not started producing biodiesel and does Economic Development after all my urgings!!

              Greg



              ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
              From: Geoff Pritchard <Pritchard@...>
              Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 10:04:39 -0800

              ><html><body>
              ><tt>
              >If I remember correctly, there is a program in Mali/Burkina Faso or a<BR>
              >close neighbor called "The Jatropha Project" in which a local oilseed<BR>
              >(Jatropha) is crushed and utilized for oil/biodiesel, and other<BR>
              >byproducts.� I don't have the website handy but can forward it to you if<BR>
              >you want.� Good Luck.<BR>
              ><BR>
              >Ciao,<BR>
              ><BR>
              >Geoff<BR>
              ><BR>
              >biodieselghana@... wrote:<BR>
              >> <BR>
              >> Dear Sir,<BR>
              >> Thanks for having some time for me to read this.<BR>
              >> <BR>
              >> We are interested in building a Biodiesel Plant in Ghana by using the local<BR>
              >> feedstock.<BR>
              >> It is a known fact that the world is going to run out of fossil fuel one day.<BR>
              >> Closer as it gets, the more expensive fossil fuel becomes. It would not be<BR>
              >> long that the world be controlled by the OPEC so far as fuel market is<BR>
              >> concerned.<BR>
              >> Biodiesel is completely a renewable fuel, does not add to the problems of the<BR>
              >> ozone layer, creates jobs internally and strengthens economies. Biodiesel is<BR>
              >> safe to handle, non toxic and it degrades very quickly.<BR>
              >> <BR>
              >> The Plant is be built by the Biodiesel Industries based in Las Vegas, USA.<BR>
              >> The President of the organization Mr. Russ Teall is ready to start the<BR>
              >> project but our only problem is the funds. Could you please help by donating<BR>
              >> any amount or even if you want a Joint Venture, we are flexible.<BR>
              >> <BR>
              >> I will furnish you with the Biodiesel Industries Acct # number if you respond.<BR>
              >> <BR>
              >> Hope to hear from you and God bless you.<BR>
              >> <BR>
              >> Kind regards,<BR>
              >> <BR>
              >> Quassy Adjapawn<BR>
              >> Director<BR>
              >> Biodiesel Ghana Ltd<BR>
              >> <BR>
            • Trudy Williams
              try http://www.jatropha.org/ PS. I have a friend working in Mali, Willys Geffard, who still has not started producing biodiesel and does Economic Development
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 19, 2001
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                try http://www.jatropha.org/

                PS. I have a friend working in Mali, Willys Geffard, who still has not started producing biodiesel and does Economic Development after all my urgings!!

                Greg



                ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
                From: Geoff Pritchard <Pritchard@...>
                Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 10:04:39 -0800

                ><html><body>
                ><tt>
                >If I remember correctly, there is a program in Mali/Burkina Faso or a<BR>
                >close neighbor called "The Jatropha Project" in which a local oilseed<BR>
                >(Jatropha) is crushed and utilized for oil/biodiesel, and other<BR>
                >byproducts.� I don't have the website handy but can forward it to you if<BR>
                >you want.� Good Luck.<BR>
                ><BR>
                >Ciao,<BR>
                ><BR>
                >Geoff<BR>
                ><BR>
                >biodieselghana@... wrote:<BR>
                >> <BR>
                >> Dear Sir,<BR>
                >> Thanks for having some time for me to read this.<BR>
                >> <BR>
                >> We are interested in building a Biodiesel Plant in Ghana by using the local<BR>
                >> feedstock.<BR>
                >> It is a known fact that the world is going to run out of fossil fuel one day.<BR>
                >> Closer as it gets, the more expensive fossil fuel becomes. It would not be<BR>
                >> long that the world be controlled by the OPEC so far as fuel market is<BR>
                >> concerned.<BR>
                >> Biodiesel is completely a renewable fuel, does not add to the problems of the<BR>
                >> ozone layer, creates jobs internally and strengthens economies. Biodiesel is<BR>
                >> safe to handle, non toxic and it degrades very quickly.<BR>
                >> <BR>
                >> The Plant is be built by the Biodiesel Industries based in Las Vegas, USA.<BR>
                >> The President of the organization Mr. Russ Teall is ready to start the<BR>
                >> project but our only problem is the funds. Could you please help by donating<BR>
                >> any amount or even if you want a Joint Venture, we are flexible.<BR>
                >> <BR>
                >> I will furnish you with the Biodiesel Industries Acct # number if you respond.<BR>
                >> <BR>
                >> Hope to hear from you and God bless you.<BR>
                >> <BR>
                >> Kind regards,<BR>
                >> <BR>
                >> Quassy Adjapawn<BR>
                >> Director<BR>
                >> Biodiesel Ghana Ltd<BR>
                >> <BR>
              • Aleksander <kac
                ... Well, don t quote me, but as far as I know, anaerobic bacteria need a source of carbon to make methane and CO2, possibly not in very long chains. I haven t
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 20, 2001
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In biofuel@y..., k5farms@y... wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > Does anyone know if the glycerin byproduct is suitable
                  > > > or can be modified to be used as fertilzer?
                  > > As any organig matter it is compostable.
                  > >
                  > > Cheers, Aleks
                  >
                  > Then it should be able to be mixed with manure in an anerobic
                  > digestor to create methane, eh?
                  Well, don't quote me, but as far as I know, anaerobic bacteria need a
                  source of carbon to make methane and CO2, possibly not in very long
                  chains. I haven't tried this, but it should work if neutralized.
                  Remember that base catalyzed glyc is very alkaline and this could
                  ruin your pH balance in the digestor. Another idea it to gasify it
                  with some wood residue in a wood gasifier and burn the gases in an
                  engine. The alkalinity has no major impact here (at least I was told
                  so a while ago). This is done here in Europe in some biod factorys.
                  The heat comes in handy for oil/fat tank heating and for process
                  heat. The gennie coupled to the engine produces epower for all
                  consumers in the factory, the rest is sold to the public via egrid.
                  Cheers, Aleks
                • Geoff Pritchard
                  Trudy/Greg ? The Jatropha Project looks pretty neat. Do you know of anything similar going forward in Niger? I have a friend from Niger that speaks of how
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 21, 2001
                  View Source
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Trudy/Greg ?

                    The Jatropha Project looks pretty neat. Do you know of anything similar
                    going forward in Niger? I have a friend from Niger that speaks of how
                    badly things are run in that country. They could use some help if the
                    gov't would allow it. Thanks.

                    Ciao,


                    Geoff

                    Trudy Williams wrote:
                    >
                    > try http://www.jatropha.org/
                    >
                    > PS. I have a friend working in Mali, Willys Geffard, who still has not started producing biodiesel and does Economic Development after all my urgings!!
                    >
                    > Greg
                    >
                    > ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
                    > From: Geoff Pritchard <Pritchard@...>
                    > Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 10:04:39 -0800
                    >
                    > ><html><body>
                    > ><tt>
                    > >If I remember correctly, there is a program in Mali/Burkina Faso or a<BR>
                    > >close neighbor called "The Jatropha Project" in which a local oilseed<BR>
                    > >(Jatropha) is crushed and utilized for oil/biodiesel, and other<BR>
                    > >byproducts. I don't have the website handy but can forward it to you if<BR>
                    > >you want. Good Luck.<BR>
                    > ><BR>
                    > >Ciao,<BR>
                    > ><BR>
                    > >Geoff<BR>
                    > ><BR>
                    > >biodieselghana@... wrote:<BR>
                    > >> <BR>
                    > >> Dear Sir,<BR>
                    > >> Thanks for having some time for me to read this.<BR>
                    > >> <BR>
                    > >> We are interested in building a Biodiesel Plant in Ghana by using the local<BR>
                    > >> feedstock.<BR>
                    > >> It is a known fact that the world is going to run out of fossil fuel one day.<BR>
                    > >> Closer as it gets, the more expensive fossil fuel becomes. It would not be<BR>
                    > >> long that the world be controlled by the OPEC so far as fuel market is<BR>
                    > >> concerned.<BR>
                    > >> Biodiesel is completely a renewable fuel, does not add to the problems of the<BR>
                    > >> ozone layer, creates jobs internally and strengthens economies. Biodiesel is<BR>
                    > >> safe to handle, non toxic and it degrades very quickly.<BR>
                    > >> <BR>
                    > >> The Plant is be built by the Biodiesel Industries based in Las Vegas, USA.<BR>
                    > >> The President of the organization Mr. Russ Teall is ready to start the<BR>
                    > >> project but our only problem is the funds. Could you please help by donating<BR>
                    > >> any amount or even if you want a Joint Venture, we are flexible.<BR>
                    > >> <BR>
                    > >> I will furnish you with the Biodiesel Industries Acct # number if you respond.<BR>
                    > >> <BR>
                    > >> Hope to hear from you and God bless you.<BR>
                    > >> <BR>
                    > >> Kind regards,<BR>
                    > >> <BR>
                    > >> Quassy Adjapawn<BR>
                    > >> Director<BR>
                    > >> Biodiesel Ghana Ltd<BR>
                    > >> <BR>
                    >
                    >
                    > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
                    > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
                    > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
                    > biofuel-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.