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The Trinity

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  • robert newman
    Rev evangelist wrote, PROOFS FOR JESUS BEING DEITY The savior has the power to forgive sins. Only God is able to forgive sins, Luke 7:48-50 And Jesus said to
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 13, 2005

      Rev evangelist wrote,

       

      PROOFS FOR JESUS BEING DEITY

      The savior has the power to forgive sins.

      Only God is able to forgive sins, Luke 7:48-50"And Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven. "And those who sat atthe table with Him began to say to themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?" Then He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you. Go in peace."

      Mark 2:5-10 "When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven you." And some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, "Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?" But immediately, when Jesus perceived in His spirit that they reasoned thus within themselves, He said to them, "Why do you reason about these things in your hearts? "Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, 'Your sins are forgiven you,' or to say, 'Arise, take up your bed and walk'? "But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins"-- First thing noticeable is that Jesus personally forgives the mans sins. He is also able perceive what they are thinking. He tells the man to rise up and walk after his sins are forgiven. Showing those around him that his statement of forgiveness is true by giving them a physical example of his power. Jesus points to himself as the source of forgiveness, this is why the Pharisee’s were so taken back, they were right, only God can forgive sins.

       

      Hi to all,

       

      Is it really so that ONLY God can forgive sins?

       

      Marks gives this viewpoint as expressed by the Pharisees, yet the same account in Matthew presents a different view, that of the people, consider

       

      Matthew 9:2-8   2 Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven."  3 At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, "This fellow is blaspheming!"  4 Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, "Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts?  5 Which is easier: to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up and walk'?  6 But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins...." Then he said to the paralytic, "Get up, take your mat and go home."  7 And the man got up and went home.  8 When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to men.

       

      Might the crowds have had the right viewpoint? Can authority to forgive sins be given?

       

      Jesus says

      John 20:22-23   22 And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.  23 If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

       

      So could it not be possible that Jesus was given authority to forgive sins from his God and father?

       

      Much agape

      Rob

    • Iamaccfiile@aol.com
      In a message dated 2/13/2005 4:23:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, rob@designceramics.co.uk writes: So could it not be possible that Jesus was given authority
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 13, 2005
        In a message dated 2/13/2005 4:23:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, rob@... writes:

        So could it not be possible that Jesus was given authority to forgive sins from his God and father?

         

        Much agape

        Rob

        Rob I put up this post but I didn't see it go though
         
        J
         
         
        In a message dated 2/12/2005 5:30:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, RevEvangelist@... writes:
        PROOFS FOR JESUS BEING DEITY

        The savior has the power to forgive sins.

        Only God is able to forgive sins, Luke 7:48-50"And Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven. "And those who sat atthe table with Him began to say to themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?" Then He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you. Go in peace."
        Interesting you try to settle my scriptures with others when you haven't given an answer to the MANY scriptures showing that being at someone's RIGHT HAND doesn't signify being that person but being a SEPERATE entity. So first answer this problem first before you start using other scriptures that I have all heard before.....boring.......
         
        HOW is it possible to be at someone's REIGHT hand and be that person revevangelist?
         
         Not to complicated. No early Church Fathers comments here, No Sharps Rule here, No qualitative quantitive bla bla bla. Just answer the SIMPLE question. The Bible is VERY SPECIFIC about Jesus being at Gods RIGHT HAND for a reason. Give me an answer. Remember your trying to prove your MYTH now and I can see the sweat coming off your forehead.
         
        As to your other Scriptures about forgiving Sins only being from God you miss one itty bitty point...Jesus was given what.....tick tick tick...........The AUTHORITY to do it.
         
         AUTHORITY comes from WHO????      Someone HIGHER.......... God doesn't need Authority to do anything he is the Authority....PERIOD.... Jesus was given the AUTHORITY just like Moses was given the Authority to stand between God and the Nation Of Israel. Moses wasn't God....Then maybe he was????
         
        Exo 7:1  The LORD said, "I am going to make you like God to the king, and your brother Aaron will speak to him as your prophet.
         
        There you have it Moses was like God...........
         
        Could Jesus be "like" God  as was Moses?? Hmmmmmmmmm
         
        Aren't the Scriptures fun...???
         
        When God gives the Authority to someone you can forgive SINS, raise the dead, make miracles, and what ever else he wants you to do. The Bible is proof of all that...
        We have resurrections in the OT, I thought ONLY God could do that???
         
         We have Miracles.
         
         But then again, you all knew that didn't you?
         
        J
      • Paul Leonard
        HI Robert, An excellent post. I would only change two things. The might makes it a question. Yet Jesus own statement that the Father has given him such
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 13, 2005
          HI Robert,
           
          An excellent post.
           
          I would only change two things.
           
          The "might" makes it a question. Yet Jesus own statement that the Father has given him such authority, indicates that they did get it right. Thus it is not simply "possible" but a reality.
           
          I know you were asking  rhetorical questions, in both instances. :^)

          robert newman <rob@...> wrote:

            8 When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to men.

           

          Might the crowds have had the right viewpoint? Can authority to forgive sins be given?

           

           So could it not be possible that Jesus was given authority to forgive sins from his God and father?

           

        • dean198
          ... There were a few cases of poor reasoning in your article: Rev ... her, Your sins are forgiven. And those who sat atthe table with Him began to say to
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 20, 2005
            --- In biblicalapologetics@yahoogroups.com, <RevEvangelist@b...>
            wrote:
            > PROOFS FOR JESUS BEING DEITY

            There were a few cases of poor reasoning in your article:



            Rev
            > The savior has the power to forgive sins.
            >
            > Only God is able to forgive sins, Luke 7:48-50"And Jesus said to
            her, "Your sins are forgiven. "And those who sat atthe table with Him
            began to say to themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?"
            Then He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you. Go in peace."

            Reply
            This *could* be a proof of his divinity. There again, it could simply
            be a proof that Jesus was sent by God with the authority of God, and
            anointed with power by the Holy Spirit to function as the Messiah.
            Later he gives the power to forgive sins to his disciples, and they
            were not divine.

            Rev
            Showing those around him that his statement of forgiveness is true
            by giving them a physical example of his power. Jesus points to
            himself as the source of forgiveness, this is why the Pharisee's were
            so taken back, they were right, only God can forgive sins.

            reply
            He simply asserts that the Son of Man has authority on earth to
            forgive sins.



            Rev
            > "Luke 5:22: "But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he,
            answering, said unto them, why reason your in your hearts?' John 2:24-
            25."But Jesus did not commit himself unto them (believe in them) ,
            because he knew all men, and needed not that any should testify of
            man; for He knew what was in mans heart". Mt. 9:4"And Jesus, knowing
            their thoughts, said, Why think you evil in your hearts ." Someone
            who can read others thoughts and the intents of others hearts like
            Jesus means he is more than just a prophet or representative. This is
            certainly not psychic powers but an ability only reserved for God. We
            find consistently Jesus exercising the same abilities as God.

            Reply
            Jesus was a prophet, and by the power of the Spirit he healed, did
            good, and cast out demons. Just as prophets would know the counsels
            of peoples' hearts, so did Jesus. He operated in the gifts of
            prophecy and words of knowledge. Others did the same in scripture,
            both before and after Jesus.




            Rev
            > CREATOR OR CREATED
            The New Testament is not lacking in attributing divine creatorship to
            his hands in Jn.1:1-3 and Col.1:15-17. The Alpha and Omega, he is the
            architect of all things.

            Reply
            We recognise that God created the worlds through Jesus, his Word and
            Wisdom.

            Rev
            That he is God the master craftsman of Prov.8. the one who spoke and
            formed things to what they are today.

            Reply
            Actually he is the Wisdom of Proverbs 8.
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