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Re: nde

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  • bootsdpm
    BIll, according to nde accounts, there are purgatories where souls go to be purified before entering heaven. it s not a place of torture. ... 628 nuing to
    Message 1 of 28 , Jan 14, 2011
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      BIll,

      according to nde accounts, there are "purgatories" where souls go to be purified before entering heaven. it's not a place of torture.








      --- In biblicalapologetics@yahoogroups.com, "William" <eliadefollower@...> wrote:
      >
      > Boots,
      >
      > I do believe that God's love is unconditional, but I also do not think that God will ultimately override our free will. However, I do also recognize "hell" as a temporary place an dhave argue that its purpose is not punishment so much as an extreme teaching tool to discourage people from conti
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      nuing to follow the wrong path. But it God's patience does have an end, and He will do away with both our current heaven and hell with a final judgment. Those who continue to insist on following the wrong path at that final judgment will be destroyed I think.
      >
      > Bill
      >
      > --- In biblicalapologetics@yahoogroups.com, "bootsdpm" <bootsdpm@> wrote:
      > >
      > > many Christian NDE believers say that God's love is unconditional. There's no eternal torment nor eternal "soul" sleep". Everyone regardless of their earthly works including Adolf Hitler, Idi Amin, Charles Manson, etc., will eventually make it to eternal bliss.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Do you believe it?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In biblicalapologetics@yahoogroups.com, "Isa" <isalcordo@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Thanks, Bill:
      > > >
      > > > That appears to be the orthodoxy's position, so be it. I truly believe that NDE is a foretaste of the resurrection - the resurrection of the spirit in a glorious body fit for heaven - where Jesus is now.
      > > >
      > > > Isa
      > > >
      > > > --- In biblicalapologetics@yahoogroups.com, "William" <eliadefollower@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Isa,
      > > > >
      > > > > For the Jewish people of Jesus' day to be considered truly dead meant to be lifeless for three days. However, part of a day counted as the whole day, thus being bur
      d3
      ied before sundown counted as one day, at sundown a se
      > > 542
      > > cond day commenced, and at sundown on Saturday a thrid day commenced, thus Jesus was dead the prerequisite three days for Jewish tra
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      dition of His day. To argue that perhaps Jesus did not believe as they did is to argue from silence, and provides a far weaker argument than to argue that Jesus did believe as his contemporaries did.
      > > > >
      > > > > Further, the Psalms give evidence that the Israelites from well before Jesus' day believed in something very similar to what is described in NDE experiences.
      > > > >
      > > > > As for the argument that NDE's are something other than death, one have been reported by at least one person who was clinically dead according to modern standards (no brain wave activity) as reported in Lancet, the journal of the British Medical Society.
      > > > >
      > > > > Bill
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In biblicalapologetics@yahoogroups.com, "Isa" <isalcordo@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Correct me if I am wrong. I believe that behind your statement:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > "So your definition (of death or of resurrection or of both?) would not apply. Plus your definition (of death/resurrection/both?)is questionable from scripture"
      > > > > >
      > > > > > was the Jewish perception that for one to be "truly dead" one mu
      5af
      st be dead/buried
      > > 5d6
      > > in the grave/lifeless for at least "three days and three nights" that Jesus appeared to have accepted in Mt 12:40-41: "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." NIV.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > But if this was so, then Jesus' dying (being declared dead) just before the sunset of Friday and resurrecting (NOT resuscitating) between sunset on Saturday and sunrise on Sunday did NOT meet your theological/Scriptural definition of death. Then by your definitition of death, JESUS MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN TRULY DEAD WHEN HE WAS LAID DOWN INSIDE THE TOMB!
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Or, could it be that Jesus DID NOT truly believe in such Jewish definition of death but condescended to prove beyond doubt that Lazarus was truly dead when he resuscitated him, as he would be before his resurrection? (See the Lazarus death and resuscitation account).
      > > > > >
      > > > > > If this three-days-three-nights-of-lifeless state is the only acceptable Scriptural definition of death, then the alleged death of Jesus before sunset on Friday and his resurrection between sunset on Saturday and sunrise on Sunday as claimed by orthodox churches are WRONG!
      > > > > >
      > > > > > BUT then,
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      Jesus proved the Jewish people wrong on this issue when he said this just before he died (Lk 23:46): Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your
      > > 866
      > > hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last. NIV. THIS IS MY DEFINITION OF DEATH IN MY POST!
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Isa
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
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