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Santo Niño

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  • Arcee A
    Hello everyone! This is for Isabelo, but I ll give a little background for everybody, and anyone can jump in and give their opinion. Here in our country, Roman
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 16, 2009
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      Hello everyone!

      This is for Isabelo, but I'll give a little background for everybody, and anyone can jump in and give their opinion.

      Here in our country, Roman Catholics number to about 80-90% (just my estimate, though).  We were colonized by Spain and was subject to her for 4 centuries, so naturally, most Filipinos are raised as Roman Catholics.  

      Now that Christmas is approaching, (well, actually most Filipinos consider the "-ber" months as the start of the Christmas season, lol), many local communities are going to celebrate the feast of the Santo Niño because they have the Santo Niño as their patron saint  (though, the official date for the feast for the Philippines is the third Sunday of January).  The Santo Niño, which means "Holy Child," is the representation of Jesus as a child.  


      If you want to see some more pics just copy and paste this in google and search: Santo Niño pics

      My question for Isabelo is, how biblical is this?

      Thanks!
       
      God bless!

      Arcee


      "I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen. Not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." - C.S. Lewis


    • Isa
      Hi, Arcee: The adoration of the Santo Nino (Holy Child) is the adoration of an historic IMAGE/STATUE of the child Jesus which was brought to the Philippines in
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 18, 2009
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        Hi, Arcee:

        The adoration of the Santo Nino (Holy Child) is the adoration of an historic IMAGE/STATUE of the child Jesus which was brought to the Philippines in 1521 by Magellan (http://www.philippines.hvu.nl/cebu5.htm). As with all Roman Catholic images, they are supposed to be used to focus the mind and the heart to the REALITY behind these images.

        Considering only the OT, this practice is definitely un-Biblical since the One God, at that time, has not given mankind any perceivable image of Himself. But He did use an idol/image of a bronze snake to heal those bitten by venomous snakes He Himself plagued the Jews to punish them for reproving God for taking them away from the comfort of Egypt into the desert:

        Nu 21:8-9): "The Lord said to Moses, 'Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.' 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, he lived."

        However, since in Jesus God, in His mercy, has given us a perceivable image of Himself (Jn 14:9: "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?)",then any perceivable image of Jesus, consistent with his person as revealed in Scripture, is a valid image to focus our mind and heart in prayer.

        Therefore, I believe that the adoration of the image of the Santo Nino is as Biblically valid as our adoration of the child Jesus during the whole Christmas Season.

        If having the image of the Santo Nino increases your faith in Jesus, then God bless you, for as Jesus said to the two blind men in Mt 9:30,
        "According to your faith will it be done to you."

        But be always aware to address your prayers to Jesus, as Child or as Man, and not to the wooden image of the Santo Nino, for that would be idolatry.

        I hope, my kababayan, I have answered your question well.

        Sincerely,

        Isabelo S. Alcordo, Ph.D.
        In Service to the Lay People of God


        --------------


        --- In biblicalapologetics@yahoogroups.com, Arcee A <truthseeker41471@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello everyone!
        >
        > This is for Isabelo, but I'll give a little background for everybody, and anyone can jump in and give their opinion.
        >
        > Here in our country, Roman Catholics number to about 80-90% (just my estimate, though). We were colonized by Spain and was subject to her for 4 centuries, so naturally, most Filipinos are raised as Roman Catholics.
        >
        > Now that Christmas is approaching, (well, actually most Filipinos consider the "-ber" months as the start of the Christmas season, lol), many local communities are going to celebrate the feast of the Santo Niño because they have the Santo Niño as their patron saint (though, the official date for the feast for the Philippines is the third Sunday of January). The Santo Niño, which means "Holy Child," is the representation of Jesus as a child.
        >
        > Here's a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santo_Ni%c3%b1o_de_Ceb%c3%ba
        >
        > If you want to see some more pics just copy and paste this in google and search: Santo Niño pics
        >
        > My question for Isabelo is, how biblical is this?
        >
        > Thanks!
        > God bless!
        >
        >
        > Arcee
        >
        >
        > "I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen. Not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." - C.S. Lewis
        >
      • Arcee A
        Hi Isabelo, First, could you define the word adoration as you use it? Second, the bronze serpent was destroyed by Hezekiah: 1 Now it came about in the third
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 21, 2009
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          Hi Isabelo,

          First, could you define the word "adoration" as you use it?

          Second, the bronze serpent was destroyed by Hezekiah: 

             1 Now it came about in the third year of Hoshea, the son of Elah king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah became king.

             2 He was twenty-five years old when he became king, and he reigned twenty-nine years in Jerusalem; and his mother's name was Abi the daughter of Zechariah.

             3 He did right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that his father David had done.

             4 He removed the high places and broke down the sacred pillars and cut down the Asherah He also broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the sons of Israel burned incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan.

             5 He trusted in the LORD, the God of Israel; so that after him there was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor among those who were before him.

             6 For he clung to the LORD; he did not depart from following Him, but kept His commandments, which the LORD had commanded Moses. 

          (2 Kings 18:1-6, NASB)

          Why do you think Hezekiah broke Nehushtan?

          God bless!

          Arcee


          "I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen. Not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." - C.S. Lewis



          From: Isa <isalcordo@...>
          To: biblicalapologetics@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thu, November 19, 2009 7:39:50 AM
          Subject: [biblicalapologetics] Re: Santo Niño

           



          Hi, Arcee:

          The adoration of the Santo Nino (Holy Child) is the adoration of an historic IMAGE/STATUE of the child Jesus which was brought to the Philippines in 1521 by Magellan (http://www.philippines.hvu.nl/cebu5.htm). As with all Roman Catholic images, they are supposed to be used to focus the mind and the heart to the REALITY behind these images.

          Considering only the OT, this practice is definitely un-Biblical since the One God, at that time, has not given mankind any perceivable image of Himself. But He did use an idol/image of a bronze snake to heal those bitten by venomous snakes He Himself plagued the Jews to punish them for reproving God for taking them away from the comfort of Egypt into the desert:

          Nu 21:8-9): "The Lord said to Moses, 'Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.' 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, he lived."

          However, since in Jesus God, in His mercy, has given us a perceivable image of Himself (Jn 14:9: "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?)",then any perceivable image of Jesus, consistent with his person as revealed in Scripture, is a valid image to focus our mind and heart in prayer.

          Therefore, I believe that the adoration of the image of the Santo Nino is as Biblically valid as our adoration of the child Jesus during the whole Christmas Season.

          If having the image of the Santo Nino increases your faith in Jesus, then God bless you, for as Jesus said to the two blind men in Mt 9:30,
          "According to your faith will it be done to you."

          But be always aware to address your prayers to Jesus, as Child or as Man, and not to the wooden image of the Santo Nino, for that would be idolatry.

          I hope, my kababayan, I have answered your question well.

          Sincerely,

          Isabelo S. Alcordo, Ph.D.
          In Service to the Lay People of God

          ------------ --

          --- In biblicalapologetics @yahoogroups. com, Arcee A <truthseeker41471@ ...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello everyone!
          >
          > This is for Isabelo, but I'll give a little background for everybody, and anyone can jump in and give their opinion.
          >
          > Here in our country, Roman Catholics number to about 80-90% (just my estimate, though). We were colonized by Spain and was subject to her for 4 centuries, so naturally, most Filipinos are raised as Roman Catholics.
          >
          > Now that Christmas is approaching, (well, actually most Filipinos consider the "-ber" months as the start of the Christmas season, lol), many local communities are going to celebrate the feast of the Santo Niño because they have the Santo Niño as their patron saint (though, the official date for the feast for the Philippines is the third Sunday of January). The Santo Niño, which means "Holy Child," is the representation of Jesus as a child.
          >
          > Here's a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santo_Niño_de_Cebú
          >
          > If you want to see some more pics just copy and paste this in google and search: Santo Niño pics
          >
          > My question for Isabelo is, how biblical is this?
          >
          > Thanks!
          > God bless!
          >
          >
          > Arcee
          >
          >
          > "I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen. Not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." - C.S. Lewis
          >


        • Isa
          Hi, Arcee: By adoration I mean honor, respect. To make my position clear, it is such attitude as the Jews show in relation to the word God. The Jews do not
          Message 4 of 4 , Nov 23, 2009
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            Hi, Arcee:

            By "adoration" I mean honor, respect. To make my position clear, it is such attitude as the Jews show in relation to the word "God." The Jews do not spell God completely but as "G_d." And after the word has been set on paper, they require that paper to be burn rather than being thrown around to be stepped upon by anybody. The Jews do not worship the written name; they simply respect and honor what has been written by seeing to it that it is not subjected to "disrespect" and "dishonor." That is the way I look at Christian religious icons, including that of the Santo Nino.

            I know some Protestants who would not hesitate to smash to pieces religious icons of some Roman Catholic Churches. They should do that to the photos of their loved ones first, such as those of their husbands, wives, children.

            You wrote:
            Second, the bronze serpent was destroyed by Hezekiah:

            1 Now it came about in the third year of Hoshea, the son of Elah king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah became king.

            2 He was twenty-five years old when he became king, and he reigned twenty-nine years in Jerusalem; and his mother's name was Abi the daughter of Zechariah.

            3 He did right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that his father David had done.

            My response:
            The bronze serpent was forged on the words of God Himself. It should not have been destroyed but kept as a reminder to the Jews' error/sin for "reproving God for getting them out from the comfort in Egypt and bringing them into the desert." Verse 3 did not speak of approval of his destruction of the bronze serpent.

            You wrote:
            4 He removed the high places and broke down the sacred pillars and cut down the Asherah

            My response:
            Hezekiah was right in doing that during his time. But let some Christians try doing that to the "sacred places or offerings to the 'anitos' of the the indigenous people in our country against their faith, and there could be bloodbath.

            You wrote:
            He also broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the sons of Israel burned incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan.

            My response:
            See above.

            My response:
            5 He trusted in the LORD, the God of Israel; so that after him there was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor among those who were before him. 6 For he clung to the LORD; he did not depart from following Him, but kept His commandments, which the LORD had commanded Moses. (2 Kings 18:1-6, NASB)

            My response:
            This is the problem about "Sola Scriptura." What you just quoted says in effect that "All the commandments that God has given to Moses" are still valid to this day" because it is found in the Bible. The Jews are the best judge as to what these commandments are/were, and according to them there are 613 commandments that the Moasaic Law require of the Jews to observe.

            You wrote:
            Why do you think Hezekiah broke Nehushtan?

            My response:
            Because Hezekiah did not understand what it was that God intended it for.

            God bless.

            Isabelo
            In Service to the Lay People of God

            --------

            --- In biblicalapologetics@yahoogroups.com, Arcee A <truthseeker41471@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Isabelo,
            >
            > First, could you define the word "adoration" as you use it?
            >
            > Second, the bronze serpent was destroyed by Hezekiah:
            >
            > 1 Now it came about in the third year of Hoshea, the son of Elah king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah became king.
            >
            > 2 He was twenty-five years old when he became king, and he reigned twenty-nine years in Jerusalem; and his mother's name was Abi the daughter of Zechariah.
            >
            > 3 He did right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that his father David had done.
            >
            > 4 He removed the high places and broke down the sacred pillars and cut down the Asherah He also broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the sons of Israel burned incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan.
            >
            > 5 He trusted in the LORD, the God of Israel; so that after him there was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor among those who were before him.
            >
            > 6 For he clung to the LORD; he did not depart from following Him, but kept His commandments, which the LORD had commanded Moses.
            >
            > (2 Kings 18:1-6, NASB)
            >
            > Why do you think Hezekiah broke Nehushtan?
            >
            > God bless!
            >
            > Arcee
            >
            >
            > "I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen. Not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." - C.S. Lewis
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Isa <isalcordo@...>
            > To: biblicalapologetics@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Thu, November 19, 2009 7:39:50 AM
            > Subject: [biblicalapologetics] Re: Santo Niño
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Hi, Arcee:
            >
            > The adoration of the Santo Nino (Holy Child) is the adoration of an historic IMAGE/STATUE of the child Jesus which was brought to the Philippines in 1521 by Magellan (http://www.philippines.hvu.nl/cebu5.htm). As with all Roman Catholic images, they are supposed to be used to focus the mind and the heart to the REALITY behind these images.
            >
            > Considering only the OT, this practice is definitely un-Biblical since the One God, at that time, has not given mankind any perceivable image of Himself. But He did use an idol/image of a bronze snake to heal those bitten by venomous snakes He Himself plagued the Jews to punish them for reproving God for taking them away from the comfort of Egypt into the desert:
            >
            > Nu 21:8-9): "The Lord said to Moses, 'Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.' 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, he lived."
            >
            > However, since in Jesus God, in His mercy, has given us a perceivable image of Himself (Jn 14:9: "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?)",then any perceivable image of Jesus, consistent with his person as revealed in Scripture, is a valid image to focus our mind and heart in prayer.
            >
            > Therefore, I believe that the adoration of the image of the Santo Nino is as Biblically valid as our adoration of the child Jesus during the whole Christmas Season.
            >
            > If having the image of the Santo Nino increases your faith in Jesus, then God bless you, for as Jesus said to the two blind men in Mt 9:30,
            > "According to your faith will it be done to you."
            >
            > But be always aware to address your prayers to Jesus, as Child or as Man, and not to the wooden image of the Santo Nino, for that would be idolatry.
            >
            > I hope, my kababayan, I have answered your question well.
            >
            > Sincerely,
            >
            > Isabelo S. Alcordo, Ph.D.
            > In Service to the Lay People of God
            >
            > ------------ --
            >
            > --- In biblicalapologetics @yahoogroups. com, Arcee A <truthseeker41471@ ...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello everyone!
            > >
            > > This is for Isabelo, but I'll give a little background for everybody, and anyone can jump in and give their opinion.
            > >
            > > Here in our country, Roman Catholics number to about 80-90% (just my estimate, though). We were colonized by Spain and was subject to her for 4 centuries, so naturally, most Filipinos are raised as Roman Catholics.
            > >
            > > Now that Christmas is approaching, (well, actually most Filipinos consider the "-ber" months as the start of the Christmas season, lol), many local communities are going to celebrate the feast of the Santo Niño because they have the Santo Niño as their patron saint (though, the official date for the feast for the Philippines is the third Sunday of January). The Santo Niño, which means "Holy Child," is the representation of Jesus as a child.
            > >
            > > Here's a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santo_Ni%c3%83%c2%b1o_de_Ceb%c3%83%c2%ba
            > >
            > > If you want to see some more pics just copy and paste this in google and search: Santo Niño pics
            > >
            > > My question for Isabelo is, how biblical is this?
            > >
            > > Thanks!
            > > God bless!
            > >
            > >
            > > Arcee
            > >
            > >
            > > "I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen. Not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." - C.S. Lewis
            > >
            >
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