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Re: Physical resurrection of the body (Isa)

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  • Rob
    Isa, You wrote: Yes, that would be a reasonable
    Message 1 of 68 , Nov 4, 2009
      Isa,

      You wrote:

      << Did or did not Lazarus eventually die thereafter, may be in old age? He died eventually, did he not? >>

      Yes, that would be a reasonable supposition.

      You wrote:

      << If this is the "kind of raising from the dead" that God the Father did for Jesus, which is what the churches and you are insisting - physically and bodily, substance for substance without change - then Jesus will be back to being "flesh and blood" as did Lazarus after resurrection. >>

      No, neither Tesfaye nor I nor "the churches" claim that Jesus' resurrection resulted in no change whatsoever to Jesus' body. His body after the resurrection was immortal, glorious, incorruptible -- quite different in significant ways from his mortal body. But it was still a material, physical, human body.

      A careful comparison of the accounts of Lazarus's resurrection in John 11 and Jesus' resurrection in John 20 will demonstrate both similarities and differences. Jesus' body left the tomb alive; the graveclothes were left behind; both were "raised from the dead"; etc. See the following two-part article (which I wrote) for this comparison and other evidence from the Gospel of John that Jesus' resurrection was a return to life of his physical body:

      http://www.watchman.org/jw/jesusresurrection1.htm
      http://www.watchman.org/jw/jesusresurrection2.htm

      You wrote:

      << Now, since flesh and blood cannot inherit eternal life,... >>

      You are quoting 1 Corinthians 15:50a (the "a" is significant here) out of context. The second half of the verse states, "neither does corruption inherit incorruption." The problem with our present physical bodies of "flesh and blood" is not that they are physical but that they are mortal and corruptible. Paul goes on to say that what is needed is for these bodies to be *changed*, not *replaced*. He says, "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality" (1 Cor. 15:53). Notice: our problem is solved, not by abandoning the physical body, but by having incorruption and immortality "put on" our present corruptible and mortal bodies. We don't LOSE anything; we GAIN immortality.

      I discuss 1 Corinthians 15 in detail in my book _Sense and Nonsense about Heaven and Hell_.

      In Christ's service,
      Rob Bowman
    • William
      Isabelo, I have compiled a list of references to a second realm for the dead for the ancient Israelites. I am using Dahood s translation of the Psalms to find
      Message 68 of 68 , Nov 22, 2009
        Isabelo,

        I have compiled a list of references to a second realm for the dead for the ancient Israelites. I am using Dahood's translation of the Psalms to find these references. That is to say, look in the Anchor Bible series, Volumes 16-17a for the clear references. If you don't have easy access to these works, I will type out the references for you. Dahood has changed the translation of most of the Psalms in light of what has been learned from Ugaritic and other NW Semetic languages, which are all related to Hebrew, especially in regards to grammar, but also vocabulary.

        Psalm 23:6

        Psalm 27:4

        Psalm 31:3

        Psalm 36:9

        Psalm 56:14:

        Psalm 61 Multiple references

        Psalm 65:4

        Psalm 73:16-18

        Psalm 84 Multiple references

        Psalm 92:13-14

        Psalm 116:9

        Hopefully in a few more days I will have compiled a list of references to stairways/ladders in regards to accessing the blessed realms in ancient non-Israelite cultures.

        Bill
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