- Hi, Won t happen for reasons expressed in Scripture. ASV Daniel 2:44 And in the days of those kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall neverMessage 1 of 96 , Sep 11, 2009View Source
Won't happen for reasons expressed in Scripture.
ASV Daniel 2:44 And in the days of those kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, nor shall the sovereignty thereof be left to another people; but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
ASV Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby.14 For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.
The Nations are Satan's efforts to subvert God's will and the Kingdom by Christ is God's response.
--- On Thu, 9/10/09, isalcordo <isalcordo@...> wrote:
From: isalcordo <isalcordo@...>
Subject: [biblicalapologetics] Re: The GC to the Apostles only?
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 5:29 PM
hI, Bob: Thank you for your comment to my post.
I believe the GC is the very core of the our heavenly Father's WILL meant in Matt 7:21-23 which is also the VERY WILL OF CHRIST to carry out God's WILL expressed in Eph 1:9-10. Because this is so important, I have copied below Matthew Henry's (MH) commentary on the GC. My position as expressed in my website agrees with MH's position: That the end-goal of the GC is not simply the discipling of individuals but the NATIONS themselves through the integration of the SOVEREIGNTY OF CHRIST into the nations' Constitutions. AND THIS IS THE WORK MOST NEGLECTED BY ALL CHURCHES, INCLUDING THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH.
I hope this will entice others to participate in the discussion. Note particularly the last two paragraphs of the commentary.
http://www.layadvoc acyforchristianu nity.org
THE GREAT COMMISSION
Matthew 28:16-20. In opening this great charter, we may observe two things.
1. The commission which our Lord Jesus received himself from the Father. Being about to authorize his apostles, if any ask by what authority he doeth it, and who gave him that authority, here he tells us, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth; a very great word, and which none but he could say. Hereby he asserts his universal dominion as Mediator, which is the great foundation of the Christian religion. He has all power.
(1.) Whence he hath this power. He did not assume it, or usurp it, but it was given him, he was legally entitled to it, and invested in it, by a grant from him who is the Fountain of all being, and consequently of all power. God set him King (Ps 2:6), inaugurated and enthroned him, Lk 1:32. As God, equal with the Father, all power was originally and essentially his; but as Mediator, as God-man, all power was given him; partly in recompence of his work (because he humbled himself, therefore God thus exalted him), and partly in pursuance of his design; he had this power given him over all flesh, that he might give eternal life to as many as were given him (Jn 17:2), for the more effectual carrying on and completing our salvation. This power he was now more signally invested in, upon his resurrection, Ac 13:3. He had power before, power to forgive sins (ch. 9:6); but now all power is given him. He is now going to receive for himself a kingdom (Lk 19:12), to sit down at the right hand, Ps 110:1. Having purchased it, nothing remains but to take possession; it is his own for ever.
(2.) Where he has this power; in heaven and earth, comprehending the universe. Christ is the sole universal Monarch, he is Lord of all, Ac 10:36. He has all power in heaven. He has power of dominion over the angels, they are all his humble servants, Eph 1:20,21. He has power of intercession with his Father, in the virtue of his satisfaction and atonement; he intercedes, not as a suppliant, but as a demandant; Father, I will. He has all power on earth too; having prevailed with God, by the sacrifice of atonement, he prevails with men, and deals with them as one having authority, by the ministry of reconciliation. He is indeed, in all causes and over all persons, supreme Moderator and Governor. By him kings reign. All souls are his, and to him every heart and knee must bow, and every tongue confess him to be the Lord. This our Lord Jesus tells them, not only to satisfy them of the authority he had to commission them, and to bring them out in the execution of their commission, but to take off the offence of the cross; they had no reason to be ashamed of Christ crucified, when they saw him thus glorified.
2. The commission he gives to those whom he sent forth; Go ye therefore. This commission is given,
(1.) To the apostles primarily, the chief ministers of state in Christ's kingdom, the architects that laid the foundation of the church. Now those that had followed Christ in the regeneration, were set on thrones (Lk 22:30); Go ye. It is not only a word of command, like that, Son, go work, but a word of encouragement, Go, and fear not, have I not sent you? Go, and make a business of this work. They must not take state, and issue out summons to the nations to attend upon them; but they must go, and bring the gospel to their doors, Go ye. They had doted on Christ's bodily presence, and hung upon that, and built all their joys and hopes upon that; but now Christ discharges them from further attendance on his person, and sends them abroad about other work. As an eagle stirs up her nest, flutters over her young, to excite them to fly (Dt 32:11), so Christ stirs up his disciples, to disperse themselves over all the world.
(2.) It is given to their successors, the ministers of the gospel, whose business it is to transmit the gospel from age to age, to the end of the world in time, as it was theirs to transmit it from nation to nation, to the end of the world in place, and no less necessary. The Old-Testament promise of a gospel ministry is made to a succession (Isa 59:21); and this must be so understood, otherwise how could Christ be with them always to the consummation of the world? Christ, at his ascension, gave not only apostles and prophets, but pastors and teachers, Eph 4:11.
Now observe, [1.] How far his commission is extended; to all nations. Go, and disciples all nations. Not that they must go all together into every place, but by consent disperse themselves in such manner as might best diffuse the light of the gospel. Now this plainly signifies it to be the will of Christ, First, That the covenant of peculiarity, made with the Jews, should now be cancelled and disannulled. This word broke down the middle wall of partition, which had so long excluded the Gentiles from a visible church-state; and whereas the apostles, when first sent out, were forbidden to go into the way of the Gentiles, now they were sent to all nations. Secondly, That salvation by Christ should be offered to all, and none excluded that did not by their unbelief and impenitence exclude themselves. The salvation they were to preach is a common salvation; whoever will, let him come, and take the benefit of the act of indemnity; for there is no difference of Jew or Greek in Christ Jesus. Thirdly, That Christianity should be twisted in with national constitutions, that the kingdoms of the world should become Christ's kingdoms, and their kings the church's nursing-fathers.
[2.] What is the principal intention of this commission; to disciple all nations. Matheteusate —"Admit them disciples; do your utmost to make the nations Christian nations;"
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--- In biblicalapologetics @yahoogroups. com, "faithhasitsreasons " <faithhasitsreasons @...> wrote:
> Dear Isalcordo,
> Welcome to the Biblical Apologetics Group!
> You asked:
> << May the group help enlighten me as to whether there is any difference between "make disciples OF all nations" and "make disciples IN all nations?"
> Not really. A more woodenly literal translation that represents the grammar of the words more directly would be something like "disciple all the nations" or "make all the nations disciples." The word "nations" (_ethne_) refers not to the political entities but to the peoples of all nationalities or ethnicities; it is in other contexts often translated "Gentiles" when used in contrast to the Jews (though that is not the case in Matthew 28:19). Jesus is not saying that every individual in all the nations will actually become disciples but that the church's mission is discipling people of or in all nations. We are to call all people to follow Jesus.
> In Christ's service,
> Rob Bowman
- Bill, Religion is not science. Nobody could have corrected the Bishop of Rome. The most one can do really is to propose or argue a different opinion onMessage 96 of 96 , Oct 26, 2009View SourceBill,
Religion is not science. Nobody could have "corrected" the Bishop of Rome. The most one can do really is to propose or argue a different "opinion" on certain subject, like the canonicity of certain writings from that expressed by the Pope, or on the Pope's stand on certain "unsettled" church issues. Of course, one can expose abuses by Popes, as did Luther on the sellling of iidulgences. But that did not happen in the first 1000 years of the Catholic Church.
In the Service of the Lay People of God.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "William" <eliadefollower@...> wrote:
> I wrote very little in the post about the bishop in Rome being corrected. Most of it was cut and paste from my cited sourde.
> Likewise you use of the Catholic Encyclopedia and Eusebius to defend your position is roughly comparable to asking the fox if he raided the chicken coop. Those which have reason to defend the position of Rome will find ways to defend it rather then admit wrongdoing. Please find non-Catholic defenses of this incident. Also remember, there is evidence that Eusebius intentionally corrupted sources to accomodate his patron, Constantine, even as he sought, as a historian, to present the truth. Eusebius is one of the sources I refer to in support of the fact that Acts in not historical, but rather denies history when inconvenient.