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Re: [biblicalapologetics] Is belief in the Trinity necessary to salvation?

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  • James
    Hello Dave Wave; ... . Simple; The same way I deal with anyone else who denies the God of the Bible. I judge them unsaved according to the Scriptures. . ...
    Message 1 of 46 , Apr 5 12:03 PM
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      Hello Dave Wave;

      Dave Wave wrote:

      > To my comments about once being a non-trinitarian
      > Christian, you replied:
      >
      > --- James <jamesjay@paonline. com <mailto:jamesjay%40paonline.com>> wrote:
      >
      > > "a trinity-denying Christian" is an oxymoron. If you
      > > denied the Trinity
      > > you could not have been a Christian because to deny
      > > the Trinity is to
      > > deny God. It's like saying you were a God-denying
      > > Christian. People who
      > > deny God cannot be Christians.
      > >
      > > In His Truth;
      > > James Kirby
      >
      > How do you deal with Christians who have "accepted
      > Jesus" in a standard mainline Protestant church, but
      > who deny the Trinity?
      >
      .
      Simple; The same way I "deal" with anyone else who denies the God of the
      Bible. I judge them unsaved according to the Scriptures.
      .

      >
      > Or do you blindly insist that anybody who is
      > authentically born again, will always confess the
      > truth of the Trinity doctrine?
      >
      .
      No. I "blindly insist" nothing. I do what the Scriptures command all
      Christians to do. I judge by the Gospel. Messiah said that only those
      who know and believe the Gospel are saved. Mark 16:15,16. The Gospel is
      Truth! A non-trinitarian god is another false god and is a lie.
      .

      >
      > (related question: how strong must one's doubt of the
      > Trinity doctrine be, before it is safe to assume they
      > are most likely unsaved?)
      >
      .
      Anybody who "doubts" the Trinity is not saved! That's equal to saying "I
      doubt God exists".
      Whatever "god" such a person believes in is certainly not the True God
      of the Bible. It's another god and those who believe in another god are
      idolaters. Eternal life is to know God... the True God of the Bible.
      Belief in any other god is therefore idolatry. Such people cannot
      possibly be saved by Biblical standards.
      .

      >
      > You might not say the Christian that was born-again
      > last night is unsaved merely because they have trouble
      > with the Trinity.
      >
      .
      I would say such a person is still unsaved according to the Scriptures!
      .

      >
      > But what about the girl that got saved at your church
      > 5 years ago, has attended every bible study available
      > to her from your church since, but still cannot accept
      > the Trinity doctrine? Is 5 years of doctrine-denial
      > sufficient?
      >
      .
      Such a person was never saved!
      .

      >
      > Must a sinner confess the Trinity doctrine as true in
      > order to get saved?
      >
      .
      No... not in order to "get" saved. Salvation is evidenced by the fact
      that one believes the truth. "God is not Trinity" is a lie! So is "Jesus
      is not God"! People who believe that are denying the nature of the
      Godhead. Such people cannot be saved according to the Scriptures.
      .

      >
      > If not, then once a dumb sinner gets saved, their
      > subsequent actions, whether living in sin, failure to
      > attend church, or denial of the Trinity, cannot cause
      > them to lose their salvation.
      >
      .
      Such people are not saved at all.
      .

      >
      > The only way out of this is for you to insist that
      > acceptance of the Trinity doctrine is mandatory for
      > salvation.
      >
      .
      Correct! Because such is an essential nature of Truth which God... who
      is Trinity, uses to save people. As I said, salvation is in the
      knowledge of the True GOD of the Bible, not a false god!

      John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only
      true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

      Those who deny the Trinity do not know the Only True God. Therefore they
      cannot be in possession of eternal life. They're lost.
      .

      >
      > Which we both know is NOT biblical.
      >
      .
      False.
      .

      > Even granting the
      > Trinity doctrine is biblical, the sinners in the NT
      > get saved by confessing far less doctrine than this.
      >
      .
      Demonstrate please.
      .

      >
      > You must then try something like "you don't have to
      > confess the trinity to get saved, but you DO have to
      > be open to it".
      >
      .
      Again... if a person does not believe the Trinity that person is
      unregenerate. They're still lost in sin.
      .

      >
      > Ok, so by that standard, accepting Jesus as savior is not enough.
      >
      .
      Correct! "accepting Jesus as savior" is not the Gospel. The same Jesus
      proclaimed that only those who know and believe the Gospel are counted
      as saved. And the Gospel proclaims the essential Nature of God!
      Therefore Yes! Belief in the Trinity is necessary.... otherwise the
      person believes in a false god. Such a person cannot be saved according
      to the Bible.
      .

      > One must also squelch any and all doubts
      > on the Trinity as part of getting saved.
      >
      .
      Correct. Just as one must believe in the Deity of Messiah as well as
      His physical, bodily resurrection from the dead.
      .

      >
      > Then the question becomes "how much doubt toward the
      > Trinity-doctrine is it possible for an authentically
      > born again Christian to have?
      >
      .
      None. All born-again Christians know and believe the Only True Triune
      God of the Bible. Anybody who does not is not born again. He's still
      unregenerate.

      2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren
      beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto
      salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:....
      [not false doctrine]

      Ps 145:18 The LORD is near unto all them that call upon him, to all
      that call upon him --in truth.-- [not in false doctrine]

      To say a person can deny the God of the Bible and be saved is
      anti-christian. The God of Truth saves His people in & by the truth.
      False doctrine is of Satan.

      In His truth;
      James Kirby
    • James
      Hello Robert M. Bowman, Jr et al; Therefore I will not be responding to any more posts until Mr Bowman allows the discussion to continue. I would welcome any
      Message 46 of 46 , Apr 7 5:44 AM
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        Hello Robert M. Bowman, Jr et al;

        Therefore I will not be responding to any more posts until Mr Bowman
        allows the discussion to continue. I would welcome any off-list
        discussion if anyone so chooses.

        Regards in His Name;
        James Kirby


        Robert M. Bowman, Jr. wrote:

        > All,
        >
        > I'm officially calling a halt to this thread. The topic is fine, but
        > the posts are getting too repetitive. I think Dave and James have
        > staked out their positions and are now just repeating themselves.
        >
        > I'm sorry that I'm too busy to wade into the subject myself at the
        > moment, but perhaps after things cool down a bit we can resume the
        > discussion and try to pursue a more fruitful direction. But for now,
        > I'm asking everyone to give this specific question a rest.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Rob Bowman
        >
        >
        >
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