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Re: God incarnate

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  • Robert M. Bowman, Jr.
    Mr. Tillman, I don t think Jesus was Michael the archangel. However, Paul, who is a Jehovah s Witness, does think this. Ecclesiastes 4:8? What version are you
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 11, 2008
      Mr. Tillman,

      I don't think Jesus was Michael the archangel. However, Paul, who is
      a Jehovah's Witness, does think this.

      Ecclesiastes 4:8? What version are you reading?

      Jesus is not *another* God, or a God "beside" the LORD. Again, if
      that is anyone's theology here, it would be Paul's theology, not mine
      (although Paul doesn't see it that way).

      In Christ's service,
      Rob Bowman



      --- In biblicalapologetics@yahoogroups.com, <mtillman@...> wrote:
      >
      > You said you could have asked "When did Jesus know that he was
      formerly Michael the archangel?"
      > Do you mean to say that you think Jesus WAS Micharl the archangel?
      Or are you simply saying you could have asked a whole series of non-
      sensical questions, such as "When did Jesus know that he was formerly
      Michael the archangel?" is?
      > There are several reasons I think "When did Jesus know that he was
      formerly Michael the archangel?" _is_ non-sensical, in part because
      of the implication that Jesus was "God incarnate," which means he
      CAN'T also have been formerly Michael the archangel.
      > You also asked if Jesus was the first creature God created, but if
      he was created, how could he also be "equally God with the Father"?
      Can a god be created?
      > How would you conform this all with the Biblical verses where God
      said He does not have a son, and that there is no god beside Him?
      Eccl. 4:8, for example.
      >
      > ---- "Robert M. Bowman wrote:
      > > Paul,
      > >
      > > You wrote:
      > >
      > > << Your answer speaks of his knowing when he was "Gods Son", in a
      > > unique way and I agree with his knowing such by his baptism at
      the
      > > latest. However that is not really the question.
      > >
      > > When did he know he was "God incarnate", which is different
      thing?
      > >
      > > That is the specific point being inquired about. >>
      > >
      > > Ah, well, that's the issue, isn't it? When you say that Jesus
      > > is "God's Son," you mean that he is the first creature that God
      made;
      > > when I say that Jesus is "God's Son," I mean that he is the
      eternal,
      > > infinite, divine Son, equally God with the Father.
      > >
      > > I could ask you similarly specific questions, such as, When did
      Jesus
      > > know that he was formerly Michael the archangel? Or, When did
      Jesus
      > > know that he had been created as the first and greatest of God's
      > > spirit sons?
      > >
      > > You asked:
      > >
      > > << As a side point; When do wee find him clearly speaking of
      this? >>
      > >
      > > See above.
      > >
      > > In Christ's service,
      > > Rob Bowman
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Paul Leonard
      Hi Rob, OK, I see what you are saying. It is an inference from the position that you hold, based on what you believe is meant by God s Son . OK, that is what
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 12, 2008
        Hi Rob,

        OK, I see what you are saying. It is an inference from the position that you hold, based on what you believe is meant by "God's Son". OK, that is what I was asking about and that answers it quite nicely.

        Thank you.

        "Robert M. Bowman, Jr." <faithhasitsreasons@...> wrote:
        Paul,

        You wrote:

        << Your answer speaks of his knowing when he was "Gods Son", in a
        unique way and I agree with his knowing such by his baptism at the
        latest. However that is not really the question.

        When did he know he was "God incarnate", which is different thing?

        That is the specific point being inquired about. >>

        Ah, well, that's the issue, isn't it? When you say that Jesus
        is "God's Son," you mean that he is the first creature that God made;
        when I say that Jesus is "God's Son," I mean that he is the eternal,
        infinite, divine Son, equally God with the Father.

        I could ask you similarly specific questions, such as, When did Jesus
        know that he was formerly Michael the archangel? Or, When did Jesus
        know that he had been created as the first and greatest of God's
        spirit sons?

        You asked:

        << As a side point; When do wee find him clearly speaking of this? >>

        See above.

        In Christ's service,
        Rob Bowman


      • Cheryl Young
        Iranian film director Nader Talebzadeh has an award at the 2007 Religion Film Festival in Italy for his movie Jesus spirit of God (Isa roh-e khoda). The
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 15, 2008
          Iranian film director Nader Talebzadeh has an award at the 2007
          Religion Film Festival in Italy for his movie "Jesus spirit of God"
          (Isa roh-e khoda). The movie details the Islamic perspective of
          Jesus that he was not the son of God.
          http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/storypage.aspx?StoryId=105509

          --- In biblicalapologetics@yahoogroups.com, Paul Leonard
          <anotherpaul2001@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Rob,
          >
          > OK, I see what you are saying. It is an inference from the position
          that you hold, based on what you believe is meant by "God's Son". OK,
          that is what I was asking about and that answers it quite nicely.
          >
          > Thank you.
          >
          > "Robert M. Bowman, Jr." <faithhasitsreasons@...>
          wrote: Paul,
          >
          > You wrote:
          >
          > << Your answer speaks of his knowing when he was "Gods Son", in a
          > unique way and I agree with his knowing such by his baptism at the
          > latest. However that is not really the question.
          >
          > When did he know he was "God incarnate", which is different thing?
          >
          > That is the specific point being inquired about. >>
          >
          > Ah, well, that's the issue, isn't it? When you say that Jesus
          > is "God's Son," you mean that he is the first creature that God
          made;
          > when I say that Jesus is "God's Son," I mean that he is the
          eternal,
          > infinite, divine Son, equally God with the Father.
          >
          > I could ask you similarly specific questions, such as, When did
          Jesus
          > know that he was formerly Michael the archangel? Or, When did
          Jesus
          > know that he had been created as the first and greatest of God's
          > spirit sons?
          >
          > You asked:
          >
          > << As a side point; When do wee find him clearly speaking of this?
          >>
          >
          > See above.
          >
          > In Christ's service,
          > Rob Bowman
          >
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