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Re: [biblicalapologetics] To Paul

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  • Paul Leonard
    Hi Patrick, What church if any do you belong to? Patrick Navas wrote: Thank you for your insights on JW s. Here is the link to my
    Message 1 of 30 , Feb 1, 2007
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      Hi Patrick,

      What church if any do you belong to?

      Patrick Navas <patrick_navas@...> wrote:
       
       
      Thank you for your insights on JW's.
       
      Here is the link to my site and book
       
       
      The first and sixth chapters can be read on the site. The 6th chapter is "The 'I am' statements of the Gospel of John."
       
      I have to get to bed soon. Stay in touch. And thank you for offering to let others know about the book.
       
      Best wishes,
       
      Patrick Navas

    • Patrick Navas
      Hi Paul, I ve never belonged to an organized religion. I studied with JW s off and on for a number of years. I personally love the home-based Bible study
      Message 2 of 30 , Feb 2, 2007
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        Hi Paul,
         
        I've never belonged to an organized religion. I studied with JW's off and on for a number of years. I personally love the home-based Bible study fellowship approach. I am always on the look out for Christians friends and Christian fellowship. But this is a challenge outside of the mainstream churches. That is where most people who are interested in the Scriptures are.
         
        Patrick
      • Paul Leonard
        Hi Patrick, Thanks for the info on where you are at spiritually. By the way I have a question on your book. On the coverage of Good teacher, did you consider
        Message 3 of 30 , Feb 2, 2007
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          Hi Patrick,
           
          Thanks for the info on where you are at spiritually.
           
          By the way I have a question on your book. On the coverage of "Good teacher, did you consider that the man went on to speak to Jesus and did not call Jesus "good" again. Jesus did not reprove or correct him but did keep speaking with him.
           
          (Mark 10:20-22) 20 The man said to him: "Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth on." 21 Jesus looked upon him and felt love for him and said to him: "One thing is missing about you: Go, sell what things you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven, and come be my follower."
           
          Jesus did not correct him aboutg calling him "good", as he got the point and quit calling Jesus 'good'.

          Is your book available on CD? That would make brief quotes from it a whole lot easier on those of us why type with two fingers.
           
          By the way what is it about JW'sor  our beliefes, practices, etc thatkeeps you from being one, if you don't mind my asking???????
          Patrick Navas <patrick_navas@...> wrote:
          Hi Paul,
           
          I've never belonged to an organized religion. I studied with JW's off and on for a number of years. I personally love the home-based Bible study fellowship approach. I am always on the look out for Christians friends and Christian fellowship. But this is a challenge outside of the mainstream churches. That is where most people who are interested in the Scriptures are.
           
          Patrick

        • Patrick Navas
          Paul, The book is not available on CD. But I could send you the book in electronic format.
          Message 4 of 30 , Feb 4, 2007
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            Paul,
             
            The book is not available on CD. But I could send you the book in electronic format.
          • Paul Leonard
            Hi Patrick, I would appreciate that. I am reading the book now as I have time. I first flipped through it to get a feel for it. That is when I saw the one
            Message 5 of 30 , Feb 4, 2007
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              Hi Patrick,

              I would appreciate that.

              I am reading the book now as I have time. I first flipped through it to get a feel for it. That is when I saw the one point I asked about.

              Patrick Navas <patrick_navas@...> wrote:
              Paul,
               
              The book is not available on CD. But I could send you the book in electronic format.

            • Patrick Navas
              Paul, Why don t you email me with your personal email. Then I can send you the book as an attachment. Patrick
              Message 6 of 30 , Feb 4, 2007
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                Paul,
                 
                Why don't you email me with your personal email. Then I can send you the book as an attachment.
                 
                Patrick
              • Paul Leonard
                anotherpaul@webintellects.net Patrick Navas wrote: Paul, Why don t you email me with your personal email. Then I can send you the
                Message 7 of 30 , Feb 4, 2007
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                  anotherpaul@...

                  Patrick Navas <patrick_navas@...> wrote:
                  Paul,
                   
                  Why don't you email me with your personal email. Then I can send you the book as an attachment.
                   
                  Patrick

                • Paul Leonard
                  Hi Patrick, Thank you. I received the book and that is greatly appreciated. I will not transmit the copy to anyone else. I hope to get some reading in shortly
                  Message 8 of 30 , Feb 5, 2007
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                    Hi Patrick,

                    Thank you.

                    I received the book and that is greatly appreciated. I will not transmit the copy to anyone else. I hope to get some reading in shortly and then let you know about any questions or observations.

                    Paul

                    Patrick Navas <patrick_navas@...> wrote:
                    Hi Paul,
                     
                    I've never belonged to an organized religion. I studied with JW's off and on for a number of years. I personally love the home-based Bible study fellowship approach. I am always on the look out for Christians friends and Christian fellowship. But this is a challenge outside of the mainstream churches. That is where most people who are interested in the Scriptures are.
                     
                    Patrick

                  • Brian Cole
                    please send it to: bjcwrite@gmail.com. Thanks. ... -- Brian Cole
                    Message 9 of 30 , Feb 6, 2007
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                      please send it to: bjcwrite@.... Thanks.

                      On 2/4/07, Patrick Navas < patrick_navas@...> wrote:

                      Paul,
                       
                      Why don't you email me with your personal email. Then I can send you the book as an attachment.
                       
                      Patrick




                      --
                      Brian Cole
                    • Paul Leonard
                      Hi Brian, This still had my name on it. Patrick has his book available online for purchase. I purchased a copy prior to communicating with him. I do not
                      Message 10 of 30 , Feb 6, 2007
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                        Hi Brian,
                         
                        This still had my name on it. Patrick has his book available online for purchase. I purchased a copy prior to communicating with him. I do not believe he is in to giving his book away, but that will be up to him.
                         
                        Paul

                        Brian Cole <bjcwrite@...> wrote:
                        please send it to: bjcwrite@gmail. com. Thanks.

                        On 2/4/07, Patrick Navas < patrick_navas@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                        Paul,
                         
                        Why don't you email me with your personal email. Then I can send you the book as an attachment.
                         
                        Patrick



                        --
                        Brian Cole

                      • Jimmy Sloan
                        Hello all. I would like to invite everyone (if it is ok with the list admin) to visit my discussion forums located at www.christiandiscussionboards.org
                        Message 11 of 30 , Feb 6, 2007
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                          Hello all.  I would like to invite everyone (if it is ok with the list admin) to visit my discussion forums located at www.christiandiscussionboards.org  They are slow at the moment, but I am trying to generate interest because I enjoy discussion forums.  My website is www.reformedapologetics.org  so please stop by :)  Thanks, and I enjoy reading the posts from this list though I don’t post all that often. 


                           

                        • Patrick Navas
                          Hello Jimmy, Check out my new book on the Trinity http://divinetruth.homestead.com/index.html Patrick Navas
                          Message 12 of 30 , Feb 6, 2007
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                            Hello Jimmy,
                             
                            Check out my new book on the Trinity
                             
                             
                            Patrick Navas
                          • Jimmy Sloan
                            Thanks, I will have a look. _____ From: biblicalapologetics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:biblicalapologetics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Navas Sent:
                            Message 13 of 30 , Feb 6, 2007
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                              Thanks, I will have a look.

                               


                              From: biblicalapologetics@yahoogroups.com [mailto: biblicalapologetics@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Patrick Navas
                              Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 9:10 PM
                              To: biblicalapologetics@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [biblicalapologetics] To Jimmy

                               

                               

                            • Paul Leonard
                              Hi Patrick, Still struggling for time to read more than a few pages at a time, but I like your approach to Matt 28:19-20 and the name issue. Patrick Navas
                              Message 14 of 30 , Feb 14, 2007
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                                Hi Patrick,

                                Still struggling for time to read more than a few pages at a time, but I like your approach to Matt 28:19-20 and the "name" issue.

                                Patrick Navas <patrick_navas@...> wrote
                                 
                                Here is the link to my site and book
                                 
                                 
                                The first and sixth chapters can be read on the site. The 6th chapter is "The 'I am' statements of the Gospel of John."
                                 
                                I have to get to bed soon. Stay in touch. And thank you for offering to let others know about the book.
                                 
                                Best wishes,
                                 
                                Patrick Navas

                              • Patrick Navas
                                Great, Paul. I look forward to more comments and constructive criticisms. Would you mind writing a review on Amazon.com? --if you have time and are so willing?
                                Message 15 of 30 , Feb 15, 2007
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                                  Great, Paul.
                                   
                                  I look forward to more comments and constructive criticisms. Would you mind writing a review on Amazon.com? --if you have time and are so willing?
                                   
                                  Patrick
                                • Paul Leonard
                                  Hi Patrick, I will let you know as I progress. Maybe after the first chapter or so I wil feel I have enough grasp of the work to write a review on Amazon.
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Feb 15, 2007
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                                    Hi Patrick,
                                     
                                    I will let you know as I progress. Maybe after the first chapter or so I wil feel I have enough grasp of the work to write a review on Amazon.

                                    Patrick Navas <patrick_navas@...> wrote:
                                    Great, Paul.
                                     
                                    I look forward to more comments and constructive criticisms. Would you mind writing a review on Amazon.com? --if you have time and are so willing?
                                     
                                    Patrick

                                  • Patrick Navas
                                    Great, Paul, I appreciate that. I don t think I ever answered your question about why I never joined JWs. The main reason was: I never became convinced that
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Feb 15, 2007
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                                      Great, Paul,
                                       
                                      I appreciate that.
                                       
                                      I don't think I ever answered your question about why I never joined JWs. The main reason was: I never became convinced that Jesus returned invisibly in the year 1914. There were just too many doubtful points and controversies surrounding the doctrine. Also, the Society has a long history of pointing to certain dates that all proved false. This made it difficult, for me, to think that the Society was still or ever was credible in the area of "date setting." This does not mean that I think JWs are not Christians. It just means I don't think that one has to be a member of the organization or believe in the doctrine of 1914 in order to have God's approval. At least, that is where my studies have led me.
                                       
                                      Best wishes,
                                       
                                      Patrick Navas
                                    • Paul Leonard
                                      Hi, Solomon has posted this review. Thought you might like to know of it, if you weren t aware of it.He is obviously a faster reader than I. I ve finished
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Feb 16, 2007
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                                        Hi,

                                        Solomon has posted this review. Thought you might like to know of it, if you weren't aware of it.He is obviously a faster reader than I.

                                        I've finished reading the book, and I have a "mini-mini review" at Dave's Scriptural Discussion site, as follows:
                                        --------------------------

                                        A Mini-mini Review of Divine Truth or Human Tradition?, by Patrick Navas
                                        I found this to be a fantastically useful book for any in-depth study of the fallacies of Trinitarian doctrine. The author has utilized an amazing plethora of scholarly, well-regarded resources to refute this theology, many of them are even Trinitarian, demonstrating that noted Trinitarian scholars themselves recognize some of the weaknesses of this doctrine (even while attempting to justify it in other ways).
                                        When examining Scriptural texts, Patrick Navas utilizes grammar, context, and common sense to arrive at the truth of matters, using above all, the touchstone of the whole body of Scripture and what they plainly outline as real divine truth. His reasoning is solid and sure, and his writing style is easy to follow, not overly "academic" nor bombastic. He honestly quotes his sources, and often presents both or several sides of an argument.
                                        What I appreciate above all is his no-nonsense appeal to the Scriptures rather than to human tradition, and his very skillful manner of cutting through the "hermeneutical gymnastics" of Trinitarian apologists, who base their doctrine on questionable exegesis or outright eisegesis (reading their own doctrines into the text). He very effectively tears down the pompous edifice of erroneous dogma that Trinitarian apologists have erected to support the doctrine of the Trinity.
                                        All-in-all, this book is a beneficial addition to the researcher's library.
                                        Note: Just to reiterate, as with the case of Jason BeDuhn and his book, Truth in Translation, Patrick Navas is not a Witness, and in the book's appendix are some personal thoughts of his that are not shared by Witnesses. BeDuhn disagreed that "Jehovah" should be in the New Testament; Navas feels that Christians need no other identifying name besides "Christian." Interestingly, he quotes a similar expression from Brother Russell from 1882. But such personal thoughts are relegated to the appendix, and do not take away from the fine work of either book in refuting the Trinity.
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