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1426Re: [biblicalapologetics] Jeremiah 23v5-6 & John1v1c

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  • Paul Leonard
    Sep 3, 2006
      Hi I will be responding to this, but am really pressed for time this week and next.

      Tesfaye Robele <tesfa_apologetics@...> wrote:
      Dear Ken,
      There are a lot of OT passages which affirms that Jesus is YHWH (for example compare Ps. 102:25 with Heb. 1:10; Ps. 34:8; with 1Pet. 2:3-8; Isaiah 8:12-13 with 1Pet. 3:14-15). We come up with this conclusion in the way you exegete these passages (Jeremiah 23:5-6; Jon 1:1c). Please know that in the NT the word theos refers substitute that the OT YHWH and we should translate OT in the light of NT since God’s revelation is progressive.
      I do not understand Paul Leonard’s argument. What is his reasons in order to come up with, “Your position leads to Oneness not the Trinity”. If John 1:1c used definite article as it is John 1:1b (ton theon) it could lead us Oneness view/Jusus and Father are one person.
      As far as my knowledge is concerned, your exegesis is very much right!
      In His Grip,
      Tesfaye Robele
      Director of the Society
      ============ ========= ========= ======
      Tesfaye Robele, Founder and Director
      The Evangelical Society for Apologetics (TESFA)
      Post Office Box 23045, Code 1000
      Addis Ababa , Ethiopia
      Tel. 251911247524
      E-mail: <apologetics@ ethionet. et>
      ============ ========= ========= =====

      Ken Hutson <postoak777@aol. com> wrote:

      First let me say that I believe in the Trinity so that no one will
      misunderstand my perspective when I write.

      I also belong to another forum, which is more accurately described as
      a debate board. I have participated in the JW and the Islam forums.
      The debate type of format is quite a challenge, but I think it is
      improving my ability to defend the eesential doctrines of the
      Christian faith.

      I noticed on the JW board they (JWs) dismiss the OT prophecies we
      consider to prove the Deity of Jesus Christ because of what I would
      call their "a god" doctrine which basically says that angels and men
      are also called gods (elohim)so Jesus is nothing more than a god
      (elohim) as well.

      I came across another reference to Jesus deity in Jeremiah 23:5-6
      where YHWH says the name of the Messiah will be "YHWH our
      Righteousness. "

      "Behold, the days are coming," declares the LORD,
      "When I will raise up for David a righteous Branch;
      And He will reign as king and act wisely
      And do justice and righteousness in the land.
      In His days Judah will be saved,
      And Israel will dwell securely;
      And this is His name by which He will be called,
      `The LORD our righteousness. '"

      From my perspective, when I compare this passage with Jon 1:1c: "the
      Word was God", I see YHWH calling Jesus "YHWH." I consider this to be
      proof their objection to "the God" (ho theos) calling Jesus "God" is
      false, and proof Jesus posesses the same nature/essence as the
      Father. In other words, it seems to me it refutes their claim
      that Jesus has a God, so he cannot at the same time be that very same

      Is my assertion that Jeremiah 23:5-6 shows Jesus and the father must
      posess the same nature valid?

      How would you express that Jeremiah 23:5-6 refutes their claim Jesus
      has a God, so he cannot at the same time be that very same God?

      Is it valid to say that when comparing "YHWH our Righteousness" with
      John 1:1c, the two statements are in agreement?

      How would you use this passage as an exegetical defense of John 1:1c?

      What comments would you make in defense of the Trinity concerning
      this verse?

      I've asked a lot of questions, so I will understand if you choose not
      to try and answer them all in your reply.

      Thanks and blessings,

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